Is there a beta tester's program for SuSE? I would like to be able to get involved in something like that. If this is something best left to private conversation, then please mail me in person. Thanks, teve -- For a look at the future click below: http://www.suse.com || http://www.linuxbase.org http://www.kde.org || http://samba.anu.edu.au http://www.winehq.com || http://www.mozilla.org -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
I think there should be, but they seem to do it all in house. After the mess that 6.4 was (shipped with a broken *Netscape* for crying out loud) they clearly need to do a better job. A public beta strikes me (and Redhat, and Debian, etc) as a very good idea.
Is there a beta tester's program for SuSE? I would like to be able to get involved in something like that. If this is something best left to private conversation, then please mail me in person.
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
Derek Fountain tapped away at the keyboard with:
I think there should be, but they seem to do it all in house. After the mess that 6.4 was (shipped with a broken *Netscape* for crying out loud) they clearly need to do a better job. A public beta strikes me (and Redhat, and Debian, etc) as a very good idea.
Netscape wasn't known to be broken when 6.4 was put together. It ran out of the box. They also shipped a broken "nn"; which is a far greater crime from my point of view, especially as it wouldn't even run out of the box. Even if you interpose a public beta before release, bugs will still crawl through. A beta programme would also delay a release by several months, making SuSE "hopelessly out of date" in comparison with the lesser distros. Some/more regression testing is called for to identify the "no-starters". To that end, every package *should* include rules and/or tools for regression testing of that package. That would help to enforce the Unix-like process of combining stable components to build a system or distribution. It can also be used to "certify" systems that have been modified from the standard distibution. If that sounds too much like Engineering; then I apologize. -- Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning Perth, Western Australia -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
Netscape wasn't known to be broken when 6.4 was put together. It ran out of the box.
Only just. Had it been properly tested the problem would have been found. Are you suggesting that the test phase for a new SuSE distro amounts to "<click>, 'yep, that runs', <click>, 'yep, that too',....". Based on 6.4, you could be right.
Even if you interpose a public beta before release, bugs will still crawl through.
Subtle ones maybe, but not show stoppers.
A beta programme would also delay a release by several months, making SuSE "hopelessly out of date" in comparison with the lesser distros.
Several months? Where did you get that idea? Stick the ISO images onto a ftp server a few weeks before they are sent off to CD manufacture. A "few" can be defined as 2, 4, 6 or whatever is appropriate. Redhat tend to have quite long beta phases and it doesn't do their business any harm. Even a 2 week beta release phase for 6.4 would have seen the Netscape, Kpackage and other obvious bugs caught.
Some/more regression testing is called for to identify the "no-starters".
To that end, every package *should* include rules and/or tools for regression testing of that package. That would help to enforce the Unix-like process of combining stable components to build a system or distribution. It can also be used to "certify" systems that have been modified from the standard distibution.
If that sounds too much like Engineering; then I apologize.
I work in the test department for IBM's mass storage systems division. I write test tools for a living. I'm fully aware of the concepts involved in testing. It just requires someone to sit down and write a decent test plan (including functional, systems, regression, etc tests) then the tests in that plan need to be run. They can't hope to run the plan on all possible machines, with all possible combinations of hardware, so once they've got it basically right in their labs they should put it out to a wider audience. The people on this mailing list would be an excellent starting point for that. Give us the beta, the automated parts of the test plan (if possible) and 2 weeks to reports major bugs. The distro would be hugely better for it. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
This is just silly On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:40:59 +0100, Derek Fountain wrote:
Even if you interpose a public beta before release, bugs will still crawl through.
Subtle ones maybe, but not show stoppers.
Not at all,. as a commercial developer myself I can test on 20 machines and upon release there are always 10-20% of users that will find "show stoppers". Computer configurations just vary too much.
A beta programme would also delay a release by several months, making SuSE "hopelessly out of date" in comparison with the lesser distros.
Several months? Where did you get that idea? Stick the ISO images onto a ftp server a few weeks before they are sent off to CD manufacture. A "few" can be defined as 2, 4, 6 or whatever is appropriate. Redhat tend to have quite long beta phases and it doesn't do their business any harm.
Have a look at the recent posting to the list. People have been screaming for the SuSE 7 en version the second the de one was released.
Even a 2 week beta release phase for 6.4 would have seen the Netscape, Kpackage and other obvious bugs caught.
Yup and during that time maybe there is a new kernel or a new vmware or new X server etc ... you'd never release anything. But if you did freeze SuSE before the release and test for 2 more weeks, people would scream because some new software release had not been included. Just look at the controversy over the omision of the XF 4 a short time ago.
Some/more regression testing is called for to identify the "no-starters".
To that end, every package *should* include rules and/or tools for regression testing of that package. That would help to enforce the Unix-like process of combining stable components to build a system or distribution. It can also be used to "certify" systems that have been modified from the standard distibution.
If that sounds too much like Engineering; then I apologize.
The FSF is always looking for testers and engineers.. get involved!
I work in the test department for IBM's mass storage systems division. I write test tools for a living. I'm fully aware of the concepts involved in testing. It just requires someone to sit down and write a decent test plan (including functional, systems, regression, etc tests) then the tests in that plan need to be run. They can't hope to run the plan on all possible machines, with all possible combinations of hardware, so once they've got it basically right in their labs they should put it out to a wider audience. The people on this mailing list would be an excellent starting point for that. Give us the beta, the automated parts of the test plan (if possible) and 2 weeks to reports major bugs. The distro would be hugely better for it.
I think you need to think of companies like SuSE as VARs and Packagers.. they don't write this stuff, they improve some things and have to rely on the package developers for the testing. If you want more robust releases, buy SCO and pay for it.. sheesh! Chris -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
Subtle ones maybe, but not show stoppers.
Not at all,. as a commercial developer myself I can test on 20 machines and upon release there are always 10-20% of users that will find "show stoppers". Computer configurations just vary too much.
Then your testing sucks. If the software we produce here failed for even 1% of users we'd have banks, airlines, insurance companies and heck knows what else suing for millions in damages. Making software that works is not difficult. You just do it right, and don't ship it until it's done.
Have a look at the recent posting to the list. People have been screaming for the SuSE 7 en version the second the de one was released.
And people have been screaming ever since 6.4 was released that Netscape doesn't work, that kpackage doesn't work, etc, etc. Having demand for your product is great, shipping a faulty product to take short term gain from those gulible enough to buy it is not. Not in the Linux world anyway.
Yup and during that time maybe there is a new kernel or a new vmware or new X server etc ... you'd never release anything. But if you did freeze SuSE before the release and test for 2 more weeks, people would scream
I'm not saying a distro should be put on ice while the public ponders it. I'm saying that the last stage of the testing - which is going to be done in SuSE labs anyway - is done in public.
The FSF is always looking for testers and engineers.. get involved!
If that's aimed at me, I am involved. I sent a bug report to the KDE team this very morning. If SuSE release a beta of 7.0 I'd download it and get involved in testing that to.
I think you need to think of companies like SuSE as VARs and Packagers.. they don't write this stuff, they improve some things and have to rely on the package developers for the testing. If you want more robust releases, buy SCO and pay for it.. sheesh!
Not sure I see your point here. No one is blaming SuSE for Netscape releasing a crap product, or anyone else releasing buggy software. My contention is that SuSE don't need to make avoidable mistakes with their distro. One way to prevent these is to offer a beta test shortly before the CDs go to manufacture. Other distros do it so your arguments that it won't work are illfounded. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
Hi Derek I think you maybe don't understand the market. Yes if you sold your software to banks etc you have to test test test.. but hey how much Does SuSE cost, how much does Netscape cost? That is the point here. If I contract to write software, we build the cost of thorough testing into the quote. If someone want to save a few bucks .. we factor it out a little. Not for one second am I saying it can't be done. The question is at what cost. Chris On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:02:14 +0100, Derek Fountain wrote:
Subtle ones maybe, but not show stoppers.
Not at all,. as a commercial developer myself I can test on 20 machines and upon release there are always 10-20% of users that will find "show stoppers". Computer configurations just vary too much.
Then your testing sucks. If the software we produce here failed for even 1% of users we'd have banks, airlines, insurance companies and heck knows what else suing for millions in damages. Making software that works is not difficult. You just do it right, and don't ship it until it's done.
Have a look at the recent posting to the list. People have been screaming for the SuSE 7 en version the second the de one was released.
And people have been screaming ever since 6.4 was released that Netscape doesn't work, that kpackage doesn't work, etc, etc. Having demand for your product is great, shipping a faulty product to take short term gain from those gulible enough to buy it is not. Not in the Linux world anyway.
Yup and during that time maybe there is a new kernel or a new vmware or new X server etc ... you'd never release anything. But if you did freeze SuSE before the release and test for 2 more weeks, people would scream
I'm not saying a distro should be put on ice while the public ponders it. I'm saying that the last stage of the testing - which is going to be done in SuSE labs anyway - is done in public.
The FSF is always looking for testers and engineers.. get involved!
If that's aimed at me, I am involved. I sent a bug report to the KDE team this very morning. If SuSE release a beta of 7.0 I'd download it and get involved in testing that to.
I think you need to think of companies like SuSE as VARs and Packagers.. they don't write this stuff, they improve some things and have to rely on the package developers for the testing. If you want more robust releases, buy SCO and pay for it.. sheesh!
Not sure I see your point here. No one is blaming SuSE for Netscape releasing a crap product, or anyone else releasing buggy software. My contention is that SuSE don't need to make avoidable mistakes with their distro. One way to prevent these is to offer a beta test shortly before the CDs go to manufacture. Other distros do it so your arguments that it won't work are illfounded.
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
Brevsville Administrator wrote:
Hi Derek
I think you maybe don't understand the market. Yes if you sold your software to banks etc you have to test test test.. but hey how much Does SuSE cost, how much does Netscape cost? That is the point here. If I contract to write software, we build the cost of thorough testing into the quote. If someone want to save a few bucks .. we factor it out a little.
Not for one second am I saying it can't be done. The question is at what cost.
Chris
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:02:14 +0100, Derek Fountain wrote:
Subtle ones maybe, but not show stoppers.
Not at all,. as a commercial developer myself I can test on 20 machines and upon release there are always 10-20% of users that will find "show stoppers". Computer configurations just vary too much.
Then your testing sucks. If the software we produce here failed for even 1% of users we'd have banks, airlines, insurance companies and heck knows what else suing for millions in damages. Making software that works is not difficult. You just do it right, and don't ship it until it's done.
Have a look at the recent posting to the list. People have been screaming for the SuSE 7 en version the second the de one was released.
And people have been screaming ever since 6.4 was released that Netscape doesn't work, that kpackage doesn't work, etc, etc. Having demand for your product is great, shipping a faulty product to take short term gain from those gulible enough to buy it is not. Not in the Linux world anyway.
Yup and during that time maybe there is a new kernel or a new vmware or new X server etc ... you'd never release anything. But if you did freeze SuSE before the release and test for 2 more weeks, people would scream
I'm not saying a distro should be put on ice while the public ponders it. I'm saying that the last stage of the testing - which is going to be done in SuSE labs anyway - is done in public.
The FSF is always looking for testers and engineers.. get involved!
If that's aimed at me, I am involved. I sent a bug report to the KDE team this very morning. If SuSE release a beta of 7.0 I'd download it and get involved in testing that to.
I think you need to think of companies like SuSE as VARs and Packagers.. they don't write this stuff, they improve some things and have to rely on the package developers for the testing. If you want more robust releases, buy SCO and pay for it.. sheesh!
Not sure I see your point here. No one is blaming SuSE for Netscape releasing a crap product, or anyone else releasing buggy software. My contention is that SuSE don't need to make avoidable mistakes with their distro. One way to prevent these is to offer a beta test shortly before the CDs go to manufacture. Other distros do it so your arguments that it won't work are illfounded.
--
RedHat Rawhide is what you mean. I was using it for 5 years ever since I got on the internet, but they recently rebuilt every single rpm every 2 weeks and if you made one mistake figuring out the new release bugs you would be gone plus it would take a couple days to download w/56k and a couple more to get it working. You get newest compiler, newest sendmail, newest glibc, etc... and to top it all off you get the regular contrib at RedHat, which always has new stuff in it. Take a look at www.redhat.com/devnet. Even people.redhat.com had at least one prerson in it with stuff to try out. As far as the kernel goes I recompile alsa-cvs and the kernel every time a new patch comes out, which requires reading linux-kernel to see which release might be unusable and how to fix it. I am using Netscape-4.74 from Netscape and I use it w/Adobe Acrobat4(USA), timidity & ump. As far as being a consumer goes I am only a cardboard box ripper, skid stacker, line loader etc.. so I don't know about the software market, but I am obsessed with getting the newest version of anything the day it comes out on freshmeat.net or www.icewalk.com. I just started using SuSE about 3 weeks ago and I was amazed that I could run linux w/out gnome or kde, connecting to the internet from the command line to do ftp. Probably it wouldn't matter what distro I used since I am only a hobbiest and my dollar isn't really the one that counts along with my opinions, but I was trying to build everything from source when I was using redhat anyway. Still, it would be nice if development at SuSE was open and you could start using beta and alpha rpms now before they ever got into 7.0. After all, the stuff we would be using would only work correctly in a SuSE world anyway if it was put into a future release. kmb SuSE-6.4 -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Derek Fountain wrote:
If that's aimed at me, I am involved. I sent a bug report to the KDE team this very morning. If SuSE release a beta of 7.0 I'd download it and get involved in testing that to.
May I suggest suse-beta-e might be a better place for people interested in beta versions of Suse? Nick -- ----------------------------- Anybody got plans for an ark? ----------------------------- -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
On 16-Aug-00 Derek Fountain wrote:
Subtle ones maybe, but not show stoppers.
Not at all,. as a commercial developer myself I can test on 20 machines and upon release there are always 10-20% of users that will find "show stoppers". Computer configurations just vary too much.
Then your testing sucks. If the software we produce here failed for even 1% of users we'd have banks, airlines, insurance companies and heck knows what else suing for millions in damages. Making software that works is not difficult. You just do it right, and don't ship it until it's done.
Have a look at the recent posting to the list. People have been screaming for the SuSE 7 en version the second the de one was released.
And people have been screaming ever since 6.4 was released that Netscape doesn't work, that kpackage doesn't work, etc, etc. Having demand for your product is great, shipping a faulty product to take short term gain from those gulible enough to buy it is not. Not in the Linux world anyway.
Yup and during that time maybe there is a new kernel or a new vmware or new X server etc ... you'd never release anything. But if you did freeze SuSE before the release and test for 2 more weeks, people would scream
I'm not saying a distro should be put on ice while the public ponders it. I'm saying that the last stage of the testing - which is going to be done in SuSE labs anyway - is done in public.
The FSF is always looking for testers and engineers.. get involved!
If that's aimed at me, I am involved. I sent a bug report to the KDE team this very morning. If SuSE release a beta of 7.0 I'd download it and get involved in testing that to.
I think you need to think of companies like SuSE as VARs and Packagers.. they don't write this stuff, they improve some things and have to rely on the package developers for the testing. If you want more robust releases, buy SCO and pay for it.. sheesh!
Not sure I see your point here. No one is blaming SuSE for Netscape releasing a crap product, or anyone else releasing buggy software. My contention is that SuSE don't need to make avoidable mistakes with their distro. One way to prevent these is to offer a beta test shortly before the CDs go to manufacture. Other distros do it so your arguments that it won't work are illfounded.
--
I might add, that much can be learned from the Debian project (and even the
"commercial" distribution, like Stormix, that base themselves on Debian). In
short, extensive testing is involved before a stable release. Until that point
a new release stays as "unstable"--although one has the option of downloading
parts or all of an unstable release as well.
Personally, with SuSE's price increases and a sour taste from 6.4 bugs, I'm on
the verge of switching to Debian or Stormix. What SuSE has going for it
though, is that it tends to stay a bit more on the cutting edge with each
release and its rising popularity in the industry (see LinuxWorld news items
this week for examples of the latter).
-----------------------------------
Arlen Carlson
On Wed, Aug 16, 2000 at 10:40:59AM +0100, Derek Fountain wrote:
I work in the test department for IBM's mass storage systems division. I write test tools for a living. I'm fully aware of the concepts involved in testing. It just requires someone to sit down and write a decent test plan (including functional, systems, regression, etc tests) then the tests in that plan need to be run. They can't hope to run the plan on all possible machines, with all possible combinations of hardware, so once they've got it basically right in their labs they should put it out to a wider audience. The people on this mailing list would be an excellent starting point for that. Give us the beta, the automated parts of the test plan (if possible) and 2 weeks to reports major bugs. The distro would be hugely better for it.
I agree. A short public beta test period would be nice. SuSE is the best distro as is, but it would help catch some of the bugs that tend to appear in the releases. Public betas are one thing I really like about Slackware and Red Hat. They make you feel like you are taking an active role in development. I think that a public beta would benefit SuSE as well. Victor -- "Let's get it straight: copyright infringement is not piracy. No one wears eye patches and cries 'Aargh!' as they download the latest Britney Spears..." -------------------------------------------------- As posted on Slashdot by Gilroy, August 8, 2000 -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
What was wrong with your Netscape installation? My copy of Netscape in 6.4 seems to work as well as Netscape for Linux ever does (well, that's not saying much ;-). BTW, I'm using the CD version. -Tim ----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ===================== "Solutions that Work" =====================
-----Original Message----- From: fountai@hursley.ibm.com [mailto:fountai@hursley.ibm.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 3:12 AM To: SuSE English Subject: Re: [SLE] Beta testing SuSE?
I think there should be, but they seem to do it all in house. After the mess that 6.4 was (shipped with a broken *Netscape* for crying out loud) they clearly need to do a better job. A public beta strikes me (and Redhat, and Debian, etc) as a very good idea.
Is there a beta tester's program for SuSE? I would like to be able to get involved in something like that. If this is something best left to private conversation, then please mail me in person.
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
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Are you serious Tim? You've been on this list a while, so how could you have missed the constant yelping from people who've installed SuSE-6.4 and are having problems with Netscape crashing more often than it "should" ;). The fault was actually in X, and is fixed by installing the new xshared package from the SuSE web site. Or, indeed, changing distributions, which I've a feeling a lot of newbies might have done.
What was wrong with your Netscape installation? My copy of Netscape in 6.4 seems to work as well as Netscape for Linux ever does (well, that's not saying much ;-). BTW, I'm using the CD version.
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Derek,
Are you serious Tim? You've been on this list a while, so how could you have missed the constant yelping from people who've installed SuSE-6.4 and are having problems with Netscape crashing more often than it "should" ;).
Yeah. I've ignored most of the Netscape crash messages just for the simple fact that really Internet Explorer in a copy of Windows with a corrupt registry almost runs better. ;-) I admit with as much volume as this list has in mail, a lot of times I pick and choose what messages I read. I'll have to look into that 6.4 patch - I haven't taken the time to upgrade anything in 6.4 except for KDE (I'm running 1.92) and XMMS (I happened to already have a newer RPM). This is definitely another case and point _why_ SuSE shouldn't raise their prices, I must say (not that RedHat was much better in my experience, but I wouldn't like to think of SuSE as another RedHat). Maybe this whole group should switch to Stormix/Debian... <g> nah, I'd miss YaST too much. Best, Tim ----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ===================== "Solutions that Work" ===================== -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
"Timothy R. Butler" wrote: ...
have a newer RPM). This is definitely another case and point _why_ SuSE shouldn't raise their prices, I must say (not that RedHat was much better in my experience,
... That's why we have the update edition. it's the Prof. Edition for much less money, less manuals, less support, so you get the CDs and the DVD, an upgrade manual, and the regular manual on CD, for the same as you paid so far. But if you want the Prof.Edition with the full support (which is more than we offered so far) and the full set of _printed_ manuals, we would like you to pay more, because you get more. If you decide you don't need the additional support and printed manuals, see above. If you don't buy more, you don't have to pay more. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
That's why we have the update edition. it's the Prof. Edition for much less money, less manuals, less support, so you get the CDs and the DVD,
Right, it doesn't sound too bad - but I've heard it won't be in stores, only mail order, right? -Tim ----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ===================== "Solutions that Work" ===================== -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
"Timothy R. Butler" wrote:
That's why we have the update edition. it's the Prof. Edition for much less money, less manuals, less support, so you get the CDs and the DVD,
Right, it doesn't sound too bad - but I've heard it won't be in stores, only mail order, right?
What does 'too bad' mean? It's not bad at all! I don't know how it's going to be distributed. -- Michael Hasenstein http://www.suse.de/~mha/ SuSE Linux AG, Nuernberg (Germany) SuSE Inc., Oakland, California (US) -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
Tim has been around since this thread started. Unfurtunatly it still looks like a Red Hat / M$ type pricing scheam or at the very least an atempt to rais the price , hence offering a lower priced striped down version. At one of the NYC linux meeting there was one given by SUSE folks , and they mentioned that there was a split down the road to a desktop type version and a server type version. No mention of pricing was made or alluded to. Unfurtanblatly I REALY do like the suse product , as its quality is very good , and those six CDS hold almost anything under the sun. I have 5 machines here at work , so If I still need to buy a version at $70.00 (OUCHHHHH) Its still cost effective as I load it on several boxes. It deoes seeem like the market is moving quit a bit more to M$ like pricing , which I am unhappy with. however LINUX is like an insurance poilicy , when disaster strikes , there is allways onother distro to jump to. Laately I have been reading up on debian , and may even toss it on a box. Mandrake and som of the other distros are just too commersialized at the moment. To bas suse is moving in that direction. Howevewr I will keep an open mind and see what actualy ships and ends up on store shelfs. I realuy dont look foward to having to get an "upgrade" edition direct from suse. there upgrade subscription was a disaster and never worked right. So much so that they moved to a distributer type set up of shipping it to retiales instead, as that way they could ship complete skids and let them sell the indivudual boxes at retial. Hence the markdowns and avialablity of a complete retial box with manuals for $29.00 at compusa ect... At 01:49 PM 8/18/2000 -0500, Timothy R. Butler wrote:
Derek,
Are you serious Tim? You've been on this list a while, so how could you have missed the constant yelping from people who've installed SuSE-6.4 and are having problems with Netscape crashing more often than it "should" ;).
Yeah. I've ignored most of the Netscape crash messages just for the simple fact that really Internet Explorer in a copy of Windows with a corrupt registry almost runs better. ;-) I admit with as much volume as this list has in mail, a lot of times I pick and choose what messages I read. I'll have to look into that 6.4 patch - I haven't taken the time to upgrade anything in 6.4 except for KDE (I'm running 1.92) and XMMS (I happened to already have a newer RPM). This is definitely another case and point _why_ SuSE shouldn't raise their prices, I must say (not that RedHat was much better in my experience, but I wouldn't like to think of SuSE as another RedHat). Maybe this whole group should switch to Stormix/Debian... <g> nah, I'd miss YaST too much.
Best, Tim
----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ===================== "Solutions that Work" =====================
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