On Sun, 2006-05-28 at 02:36 -0400, Carl Hartung wrote:

On Sunday 28 May 2006 02:17, Ralph Ellis wrote: <snip>

...

In the end, I had to fall back on the Genghis Khan brute force method of software install. I downloaded all of these files into a subdirectory and one by one manually typed in the rpm commands to install them with the following syntax rpm -Uhv --force --nodeps filename.rpm

This is a very bad idea. The only time you want to use the --force option is when you are keeping track of the dependencies, yourself, and your plan is to fulfill them later in the installation 'sequence' that you're working on at the moment. Otherwise, you do risk experiencing serious system instabilities.

If you caught my response to Mike in the related thread a few minutes ago, I believe the required -devel packages are part of 10.1. You can use the 'Software Management' module in YaST or download the packages into a directory and run 'rpm -Uhv *.rpm --test'

If rpm reports no errors, you re-run the command but drop the '--test', as follows (as root):

rpm -Uhv *.rpm SuSEconfig ldconfig

Once the required '-devel' packages are installed, you then install the set of replacement 'updater system' packages.

regards,

Carl

FWIW, I just downloaded all but the -devel and -debuginfo packages and the remaining packages installed fine with no dependency errors. It still hogs the cpu for more than a minute when I first log in, but at least now the system is usable at 100% cpu utilization. It still doesn't like when I use YaST to add package repositories, but we'll see what happens with the next version. -- _________________________________________________________ A Message From... L. Mark Stone Reliable Networks of Maine, LLC "We manage your network so you can manage your business" 477 Congress Street Portland, ME 04101 Tel: (207) 772-5678 Web: http://www.rnome.com This email was sent from Reliable Networks of Maine LLC. It may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you suspect that you were not intended to receive it, please delete it and notify us as soon as possible. Thank you.

On Sunday 28 May 2006 11:01, Carl Hartung wrote:

Hi Mark,

Just so I've grasped your point correctly, are you saying there were unnecessary packages in the test directory? IOW, if I'd actually 'filtered out' the -devel and -debug files, I wouldn't have run into the 12 dependencies?

regards,

Based on my experience, yes. I downloaded them all. Saw that I had two dependencies for devel type pkgs. Deleted those two rpm's and installed all the rest. The pkgs weren't 'unnecessary' for some..... but they were for you since you didn't have those devel rpm's installed.

On Sunday 28 May 2006 12:24, Carl Hartung wrote:

I don't want to repeat the mistake of pointing people to that directory without telling them "don't bother installing the '-devel' and '-debug' packages. They've just been placed there for 'window dressing'. ;-)

And I think you have it all wrong too.... Those packages weren't placed there for window dressing.... they were placed there for those people who had installed the development packages that needed updates for the updater problem. So if you didn't have the development pkgs installed, you can either install them or removed the updates FOR PACKAGES YOU DON"T HAVE INSTALLED. (sorry for yelling but it is an important point) So your idea of "filtering out all the debug and devel rpm's in the update directory wouldn't be right... some updates should be applied and in my case I am sure some devel updates *were* applied. I didn't check and I didn't care. I wasn't meaning to imply you didn't know about dependencies... not at all. I am just trying to clarify (for the last time) what the situation was with applying the updates and how one might go about it.

On Sunday 28 May 2006 21:34, Carl Hartung wrote:

That was *not* my meaning. In fact, you've quoted me out of context and twisted my meaning to the opposite. What's the point of continuing?

None at all. It was all a semantics problem from the very beginning.

On Sun, 2006-05-28 at 11:01 -0400, Carl Hartung wrote:

On Sunday 28 May 2006 07:35, L. Mark Stone wrote:

...

FWIW, I just downloaded all but the -devel and -debuginfo packages and the remaining packages installed fine with no dependency errors.

It still hogs the cpu for more than a minute when I first log in, but at least now the system is usable at 100% cpu utilization. It still doesn't like when I use YaST to add package repositories, but we'll see what happens with the next version.

Hi Mark,

Just so I've grasped your point correctly, are you saying there were unnecessary packages in the test directory? IOW, if I'd actually 'filtered out' the -devel and -debug files, I wouldn't have run into the 12 dependencies?

Carl, Not trying to be cheeky, but I'm not sure I'm qualified to say whether the -devel and -debuginfo packages are "unnecessary." For me, the -devel and -debuginfo packages were not "necessary" for the remaining packages in the repository to install without any dependencies. Whether the -devel and -debuginfo packages provide some functionality beyond what you and I normally expect from -devel and -debuginfo packages, and therefore whether they are "necessary" for the complete and proper functioning of the new update system I think only the SuSE developers can truly say. Until a new update is released for my system, I can't even say conclusively that the test updater will flag me. Certainly the little icon in the system tray seems happy. I can RMB and choose "Refresh". My cpu utilization gets pegged at 100% but at least with the test packages the system is usable during that time. A few minutes later the thing quiets down and says I have no updates, which I have verified as true by manually viewing the repositories. Funny how the .1 SuSE releases (at least since I've been using SuSE) frequently seem to have big "gotchas". 8.0, 9.0 and 10.0 worked pretty much OK for us on most hardware. 8.1 and 9.1 didn't stay long on any hardware we used in production. 8.2 and 9.2 were awesome, so I'm hoping 10.2 will follow the trend. Meanwhile, SLES9 is just brilliant and works great for us. I'm having problems now on 10.1 with font changes in Gnome apps not sticking between sessions, and NetworkManager and KDEWallet not playing nicely together so much so that they freak each other out and won't let me do a wireless connection unless I reboot and log in REALLY FAST. Based on the logs in the wireless AP, the AP thinks the laptop is associated, authenticated and good to go. NetworkManager doesn't think so and takes down the connection. Same hardware that worked fine with 10.0, so I may just wind up wiping the disk clean to put 10.0 back on until 10.2 comes out. As always, YMMV... All the best, Mark -- _________________________________________________________ A Message From... L. Mark Stone Reliable Networks of Maine, LLC "We manage your network so you can manage your business" 477 Congress Street Portland, ME 04101 Tel: (207) 772-5678 Web: http://www.rnome.com This email was sent from Reliable Networks of Maine LLC. It may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you suspect that you were not intended to receive it, please delete it and notify us as soon as possible. Thank you.

On Sunday 28 May 2006 02:36, Carl Hartung wrote:

This is a very bad idea. The only time you want to use the --force option is when you are keeping track of the dependencies, yourself, and your plan is to fulfill them later in the installation 'sequence' that you're working on at the moment. Otherwise, you do risk experiencing serious system instabilities.

You don't even have to install the devel packages that are missing. Just delete the rpm's that have dependencies (two in my case) and : rpm -Uvh *.rpm Worked for me.

On Sunday 28 May 2006 12:11, Carl Hartung wrote:

You may be right, Bruce, but this doesn't take into account the original instructions in the original post (paraphrased) "install and test these packages" with zerop qualifications about excluding -devel or -debug packages. It never occurred to me that unnecessary packages would be included in the directory so I followed the instructions and ran into dependencies... which, incidentally, only took a minute or two to resolve with apt.

True but I read that 'install' statement as a general comment and the poster couldn't tell what you had installed on your machine.... so - - - - YMMV as always.

On Mon, 29 May 2006 08:24:41 -0400 Mike McMullin wrote:

Where id you find apt for 10.0?

There are versions of apt plus apt-libs in the 'base' repository, e.g. at ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/apt/SuSE/10.0-i386/RPMS.base/ or various mirrors thereof. likewise for 10.1, ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/apt/SuSE/10.1-i386/RPMS.base/ [I download the two .rpm files with a browser, install them, fix up /etc/apt/sources.list to my liking, then use 'apt-get'.] mikus

On Sun, 2006-05-28 at 11:52 -0400, Carl Hartung wrote:

On Sunday 28 May 2006 11:25, Kenneth Aar, Grafikern.no wrote:

...

Why not just add ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/people/aj/10.1-packagemanagement-update-test/ as a repository in yast. No dependencies issues for me at least...

Hi Kenneth,

One of the problems being addressed is very slow resolving/refreshing and even apparent 'hangs' when adding/removing repositories. ;-)

This is nice. <sigh> I tried adding this as an install source and it was a no go. I think I'm going to burn a disk with all of the files needed to fix the updater, _if_ I ever think about loading 10.0 onto another system.

On Sunday 28 May 2006 07:17, Ralph Ellis wrote:

...

I thought that I would include a few thoughts on the Suse 10.1 struggle The thing is that if this obviously fataly flawed zen and friends were killed off (as in my opinion they should be) and it went back to the Yast YOU system we would not be having all these problems .

I am now seroiusley looking for another distro to switch to as suse is going down the pan big style i have purchased every release from 5.3 onwards i doubt i will buy one again Gnome sucks big time and should be a supplemental installation SuSe is/was/and should remain an KDE centric distro Novell's move into SuSe has seriousley damaged what was a good reliable product whats more the Novelle website is absolutley disgusting about as user friendley as a Black Mamba with it's knickers on upside down .

10.1 is a total no no far too many problems people moaned like hell about 9.2 well this box is running 9.2 is abslutley rock solid i havd 10.0 on a spare 32bit box it kept locking up switched back to 9.2 bingo solid again

Wake up Novell get your act together CAN gnome out of the main distro if you must support it then on an suplemental CD yes on the main distro NO.

Pete very nearley an EX suse user unless the next release is a MAJOR improvment on 10.1

I too got down about SUSE thats why I've been happily running Fedora Core 4. I gave up on FC 5, its too new, the only bug I've found with FC4 are the updates where SUSE kicks FC's butt when it comes to the updates. Gnome, ya, that I run, and ya, it has its quarks, its slow responses, but who logs in to the console if your running server in gui mode anyway? I might as well run it in the right init level so its console based to save my self more resources. SUSE 10.0 is a great distro, I wouldn't give up on it completely if it works for ya, but still, I feel ya.