[opensuse] Regarding Carlos ER's Mailinglist Ban
Hi all, Thanks to those participating in the conversation concerning mailing list moderation that did not resort to personal attacks, name calling, or implying ill will towards any particular member of the community. We have reviewed both the direct feedback to board@opensuse.org and all comments of the various threads and have come to the following conclusion. While the imposed ban on Carlos from the lists was justified, well intentioned and has resolved the disruption that was occurring on some lists, in retrospect the ban had further reaching impacts than expected, including removing a good source of help from this opensuse@o.o mailinglist. For that, we would like to apologise. We have asked the ML admin team to re-instate Carlos on opensuse@.o.o while keeping the positing restriction on other lists in place until February 14th. Again thanks to those participating in the discussion that focused on the matter of the issue. The openSUSE Board Andrew Wafaa Bruno Friedmann Kostas Koudaras Michal Hrušecký Richard Brown (Chair) Robert Schweikert -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 11/01/2016 18:16, Richard Brown a écrit :
Again thanks to those participating in the discussion that focused on the matter of the issue.
nice move, thanks jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday 11 Jan 2016 18:16:41 Richard Brown wrote:
Hi all,
Thanks to those participating in the conversation concerning mailing list moderation that did not resort to personal attacks, name calling, or implying ill will towards any particular member of the community.
We have reviewed both the direct feedback to board@opensuse.org and all comments of the various threads and have come to the following conclusion. While the imposed ban on Carlos from the lists was justified, well mmm that will always be up for debate intentioned and has resolved the disruption that was occurring on some lists, in retrospect the ban had further reaching impacts than expected, including removing a good source of help from this opensuse@o.o mailinglist. For that, we would like to apologise. i think the "good source of help" was mentioned in most discussions but conveniently ignored which hurts the audience of these lists
We have asked the ML admin team to re-instate Carlos on opensuse@.o.o while keeping the positing restriction on other lists in place until February 14th. January 14 would be more appropriate considering the realisation and apology above
Again thanks to those participating in the discussion that focused on the matter of the issue.
The openSUSE Board Andrew Wafaa Bruno Friedmann Kostas Koudaras Michal Hrušecký Richard Brown (Chair) Robert Schweikert
better late than never i guess -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Am 11.01.2016 um 18:16 schrieb Richard Brown:
Hi all,
Thanks to those participating in the conversation concerning mailing list moderation that did not resort to personal attacks, name calling, or implying ill will towards any particular member of the community.
We have reviewed both the direct feedback to board@opensuse.org and all comments of the various threads and have come to the following conclusion. While the imposed ban on Carlos from the lists was justified, well intentioned and has resolved the disruption that was occurring on some lists, in retrospect the ban had further reaching impacts than expected, including removing a good source of help from this opensuse@o.o mailinglist. For that, we would like to apologise.
We have asked the ML admin team to re-instate Carlos on opensuse@.o.o while keeping the positing restriction on other lists in place until February 14th.
Again thanks to those participating in the discussion that focused on the matter of the issue.
The openSUSE Board Andrew Wafaa Bruno Friedmann Kostas Koudaras Michal Hrušecký Richard Brown (Chair) Robert Schweikert
While I missed Carlos on this list, did not agree with the ban and will be happy to hopefully see him back, I did not enter in the discussion. I think it is really GREAT that the board came back on it's decision and I highly value the character and the guts to publicly correct a decision. Thank you. Daniel -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona http://www.daniel-bauer.com room in Barcelona: https://www.airbnb.es/rooms/2416137 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 18:55:28 +0100 Daniel Bauer wrote: 8< snipped >8
While I missed Carlos on this list, did not agree with the ban and will be happy to hopefully see him back, I did not enter in the discussion.
I think it is really GREAT that the board came back on it's decision and I highly value the character and the guts to publicly correct a decision.
Thank you.
Daniel
My sentiments, exactly! +1 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Carl Hartung <opensuse@cehartung.com> 01/11/16 1:36 PM >>> On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 18:55:28 +0100 Daniel Bauer wrote:
8< snipped >8
While I missed Carlos on this list, did not agree with the ban and will be happy to hopefully see him back, I did not enter in the discussion.
I think it is really GREAT that the board came back on it's decision and I highly value the character and the guts to publicly correct a decision.
Thank you.
Daniel
+1 for me as well -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/11/2016 12:55 PM, Daniel Bauer wrote:
Am 11.01.2016 um 18:16 schrieb Richard Brown:
Hi all,
Thanks to those participating in the conversation concerning mailing list moderation that did not resort to personal attacks, name calling, or implying ill will towards any particular member of the community.
We have reviewed both the direct feedback to board@opensuse.org and all comments of the various threads and have come to the following conclusion. While the imposed ban on Carlos from the lists was justified, well intentioned and has resolved the disruption that was occurring on some lists, in retrospect the ban had further reaching impacts than expected, including removing a good source of help from this opensuse@o.o mailinglist. For that, we would like to apologise.
We have asked the ML admin team to re-instate Carlos on opensuse@.o.o while keeping the positing restriction on other lists in place until February 14th.
Again thanks to those participating in the discussion that focused on the matter of the issue.
The openSUSE Board Andrew Wafaa Bruno Friedmann Kostas Koudaras Michal Hrušecký Richard Brown (Chair) Robert Schweikert
While I missed Carlos on this list, did not agree with the ban and will be happy to hopefully see him back, I did not enter in the discussion.
I think it is really GREAT that the board came back on it's decision and I highly value the character and the guts to publicly correct a decision.
Thank you.
Daniel
+1 I agree as well, thank you. -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes _.._ _ ."\__/"./`_\ _/__<__>__\/ jgs `"/_/""""\_\\ Adolph & Sharon Weidanz PADI MSDT/OWSI 283315 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 18:16:41 +0100 Richard Brown <RBrownCCB@opensuse.org> wrote:
Hi all,
Thanks to those participating in the conversation concerning mailing list moderation that did not resort to personal attacks, name calling, or implying ill will towards any particular member of the community.
We have reviewed both the direct feedback to board@opensuse.org and all comments of the various threads and have come to the following conclusion. While the imposed ban on Carlos from the lists was justified, well intentioned and has resolved the disruption that was occurring on some lists, in retrospect the ban had further reaching impacts than expected, including removing a good source of help from this opensuse@o.o mailinglist. For that, we would like to apologise.
We have asked the ML admin team to re-instate Carlos on opensuse@.o.o while keeping the positing restriction on other lists in place until February 14th.
Again thanks to those participating in the discussion that focused on the matter of the issue.
The openSUSE Board Andrew Wafaa Bruno Friedmann Kostas Koudaras Michal Hrušecký Richard Brown (Chair) Robert Schweikert
Thank you for taking this action. Although I don't always agree with the responses that Carlos gave I believe that for the most part they were well intentioned and did provide much useful information. Let us hope that Carlos can remain a valued source of assistance on this list and doesn't slip back to old habits. Tom -- When you get all full of yourself try giving orders to a cat. - Anonymous ^^ --... ...-- / -.- --. --... -.-. ..-. -.-. ^^^^ Tom Taylor KG7CFC openSUSE 13.1 (64-bit), Kernel 3.11.6-4-default, KDE 4.11.2, AMD A8-7600, GeForce GTX 740 T/PCIe/ 16GB RAM -- 3x1.5TB sata2 -- 128GB-SSD FF 42.0, claws-mail 3.11 registered linux user 263467 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/01/16 04:16, Richard Brown wrote:
Hi all,
Thanks to those participating in the conversation concerning mailing list moderation that did not resort to personal attacks, name calling, or implying ill will towards any particular member of the community.
We have reviewed both the direct feedback to board@opensuse.org and all comments of the various threads and have come to the following conclusion. While the imposed ban on Carlos from the lists was justified, well intentioned and has resolved the disruption that was occurring on some lists, in retrospect the ban had further reaching impacts than expected, including removing a good source of help from this opensuse@o.o mailinglist. For that, we would like to apologise.
We have asked the ML admin team to re-instate Carlos on opensuse@.o.o while keeping the positing restriction on other lists in place until February 14th.
Again thanks to those participating in the discussion that focused on the matter of the issue.
The openSUSE Board Andrew Wafaa Bruno Friedmann Kostas Koudaras Michal Hrušecký Richard Brown (Chair) Robert Schweikert
Now that all members of the Board have acknowledged, and have apologised for doing so, that they were in error when they allowed the Board Chairman announce the banning of Carlos from posting in all lists and fora, there remains one more action which the current members of the Board must make which would make the Community, to which the Board is responsible, happier about the actions of the current members of the Board, which they agreed to take, concerning the Carlos ER matter. In the excuses which were proffered by the Board for the banning of Carlos much was made of Carlos' "behaviour" in the *-factory mail list. It was also brought to everyone's attention that Carlos got some moderator's/moderators' "gander up" in the fora (aka 'forums') -- which are different to the mail lists. It appeared from the limited posts which Carlos was allowed to make before he was summarily banned from all lists and fora that he had "served his time" re the penalty imposed way back in October 2015 on him regarding his participation in the fora -- but that this was ignored and the fora were nevertheless included in the [later/latest] summary ban. The current Board has now made the correct decision and has taken the right step in redeeming its reputation by apologising for banning Carlos from -- at least -- the 'opensuse' list, a list which was never stressed as a list of contention for Carlos' banning. The members of the current Board -- which has only a couple of weeks or so of existence left before the result of the elections for its (new) membership is known -- would leave their reputations in better shape if they now *immediately* rescind the ban on Carlos' participation in all fora and all -- bar one -- mail lists. As an expression of reconciliation, and in the spirit of suggesting to the members of the current Board that they do not further "lose face" in this matter, even Carlos would accept that, as a compromise, an inability for him to post to the opensuse-factory list could remain in force until the 14th February 2016 -- but his posting rights to all other lists and fora be immediately re-instated. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.9 & kernel 4.3.3-9 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/12/2016 10:10 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
[...] there remains one more action which the current members of the Board must make [...]
Personal minor note: This is possibly only me, but over the last years, I somehow got an allergy against "so. must do sthg". It's an open project in a free society, so hardly anyone "must" do anything. As we're not all native English speakers, such generalizing, passive wording might lead to misinterpretations, too. I'd prefer and therefore suggest active wording like "I'd vote for", or "I suggest". ;-) Thanks for reading. Have a nice day, Berny -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 12 Jan 2016 10:57:43 +0100 Bernhard Voelker <mail@bernhard-voelker.de> wrote:
On 01/12/2016 10:10 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
[...] there remains one more action which the current members of the Board must make [...]
Personal minor note: This is possibly only me, but over the last years, I somehow got an allergy against "so. must do sthg". It's an open project in a free society, so hardly anyone "must" do anything. As we're not all native English speakers, such generalizing, passive wording might lead to misinterpretations, too. I'd prefer and therefore suggest active wording like "I'd vote for", or "I suggest". ;-)
There are people in this world who are not native English speakers? How gauche! p.s. - that's "gauche" in its English language meaning, not its French language meaning nor its Germanic roots meaning nor... ;-) Ralph -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/01/16 21:24, listreader wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jan 2016 10:57:43 +0100 Bernhard Voelker <mail@bernhard-voelker.de> wrote:
On 01/12/2016 10:10 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
[...] there remains one more action which the current members of the Board must make [...] Personal minor note: This is possibly only me, but over the last years, I somehow got an allergy against "so. must do sthg". It's an open project in a free society, so hardly anyone "must" do anything. As we're not all native English speakers, such generalizing, passive wording might lead to misinterpretations, too. I'd prefer and therefore suggest active wording like "I'd vote for", or "I suggest". ;-)
There are people in this world who are not native English speakers? How gauche!
Absolutely "gauche" -- or did you mean to say "qouache"?
p.s. - that's "gauche" in its English language meaning, not its French language meaning nor its Germanic roots meaning nor... ;-)
Ralph
BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.9 & kernel 4.3.3-9 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/01/16 20:57, Bernhard Voelker wrote:
On 01/12/2016 10:10 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
[...] there remains one more action which the current members of the Board must make [...]
Personal minor note: This is possibly only me, but over the last years, I somehow got an allergy against "so. must do sthg". It's an open project in a free society, so hardly anyone "must" do anything. As we're not all native English speakers, such generalizing, passive wording might lead to misinterpretations, too. I'd prefer and therefore suggest active wording like "I'd vote for", or "I suggest". ;-) Thanks for reading.
Have a nice day, Berny
I understand what you are trying to express. Understanding what each of us is trying to express in our different languages is what makes communicating with each other in this, or any other, list/forum, a challenge in some ways. But there are always things said and actions taken which in any language are wrong. The case of Carlos being banned from posting by the Board for the reasons given by the members of the Board is one of them. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.9 & kernel 4.3.3-9 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/01/16 10:31, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 12/01/16 20:57, Bernhard Voelker wrote:
On 01/12/2016 10:10 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
[...] there remains one more action which the current members of the Board must make [...]
Personal minor note: This is possibly only me, but over the last years, I somehow got an allergy against "so. must do sthg". It's an open project in a free society, so hardly anyone "must" do anything. As we're not all native English speakers, such generalizing, passive wording might lead to misinterpretations, too. I'd prefer and therefore suggest active wording like "I'd vote for", or "I suggest". ;-) Thanks for reading.
Have a nice day, Berny
I understand what you are trying to express.
Understanding what each of us is trying to express in our different languages is what makes communicating with each other in this, or any other, list/forum, a challenge in some ways.
But there are always things said and actions taken which in any language are wrong.
The case of Carlos being banned from posting by the Board for the reasons given by the members of the Board is one of them.
BC
I think what Berny is saying is if you say "I" it is clear that you are expressing your own opinion. If you use the third person, you appear to be speaking on behalf of the community, which you are not mandated to do. And that's my point of view, too. Bob -- Bob Williams System: Linux 4.1.13-5-default Distro: openSUSE 42.1 (x86_64) with KDE Development Platform: 4.14.10
On 2016-01-11 18:16, Richard Brown wrote:
Hi all,
Thanks to those participating in the conversation concerning mailing list moderation that did not resort to personal attacks, name calling, or implying ill will towards any particular member of the community.
We have reviewed both the direct feedback to board@opensuse.org and all comments of the various threads and have come to the following conclusion. While the imposed ban on Carlos from the lists was justified, well intentioned and has resolved the disruption that was occurring on some lists, in retrospect the ban had further reaching impacts than expected, including removing a good source of help from this opensuse@o.o mailinglist. For that, we would like to apologise.
We have asked the ML admin team to re-instate Carlos on opensuse@.o.o while keeping the positing restriction on other lists in place until February 14th.
Again thanks to those participating in the discussion that focused on the matter of the issue.
The openSUSE Board Andrew Wafaa Bruno Friedmann Kostas Koudaras Michal Hrušecký Richard Brown (Chair) Robert Schweikert
Well, thank you! Much appreciated. :-) I'll take the chance to thank you everybody else for their understanding and support. To some I have expressed such in private, now I do so in public and thus not forget people. But... there have been some gross words written here in my support, and even though I can understand why they appear, those I would prefer would not be written. Let's keep things friendly, or at least, even in the heat, polite :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On Tue, 12 Jan 2016 12:25:29 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
Well, thank you! Much appreciated. :-)
I'll take the chance to thank you everybody else for their understanding and support. To some I have expressed such in private, now I do so in public and thus not forget people.
But... there have been some gross words written here in my support, and even though I can understand why they appear, those I would prefer would not be written. Let's keep things friendly, or at least, even in the heat, polite :-)
Welcome back, Carlos! :-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [01-12-16 06:26]: [...]
Well, thank you! Much appreciated. :-)
Good to see you :) -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/01/16 11:25, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2016-01-11 18:16, Richard Brown wrote:
Hi all,
Thanks to those participating in the conversation concerning mailing list moderation that did not resort to personal attacks, name calling, or implying ill will towards any particular member of the community.
We have reviewed both the direct feedback to board@opensuse.org and all comments of the various threads and have come to the following conclusion. While the imposed ban on Carlos from the lists was justified, well intentioned and has resolved the disruption that was occurring on some lists, in retrospect the ban had further reaching impacts than expected, including removing a good source of help from this opensuse@o.o mailinglist. For that, we would like to apologise.
We have asked the ML admin team to re-instate Carlos on opensuse@.o.o while keeping the positing restriction on other lists in place until February 14th.
Again thanks to those participating in the discussion that focused on the matter of the issue.
The openSUSE Board Andrew Wafaa Bruno Friedmann Kostas Koudaras Michal Hrušecký Richard Brown (Chair) Robert Schweikert
Well, thank you! Much appreciated. :-)
I'll take the chance to thank you everybody else for their understanding and support. To some I have expressed such in private, now I do so in public and thus not forget people.
But... there have been some gross words written here in my support, and even though I can understand why they appear, those I would prefer would not be written. Let's keep things friendly, or at least, even in the heat, polite :-)
Welcome back, Carlos. I didn't contribute to the other thread(s), but am pleased to see you've been granted parole ;-) Bob -- Bob Williams System: Linux 4.1.13-5-default Distro: openSUSE 42.1 (x86_64) with KDE Development Platform: 4.14.10
On 01/12/2016 12:25 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2016-01-11 18:16, Richard Brown wrote:
Hi all,
Thanks to those participating in the conversation concerning mailing list moderation that did not resort to personal attacks, name calling, or implying ill will towards any particular member of the community.
We have reviewed both the direct feedback to board@opensuse.org and all comments of the various threads and have come to the following conclusion. While the imposed ban on Carlos from the lists was justified, well intentioned and has resolved the disruption that was occurring on some lists, in retrospect the ban had further reaching impacts than expected, including removing a good source of help from this opensuse@o.o mailinglist. For that, we would like to apologise.
We have asked the ML admin team to re-instate Carlos on opensuse@.o.o while keeping the positing restriction on other lists in place until February 14th.
Again thanks to those participating in the discussion that focused on the matter of the issue.
The openSUSE Board Andrew Wafaa Bruno Friedmann Kostas Koudaras Michal Hrušecký Richard Brown (Chair) Robert Schweikert
Well, thank you! Much appreciated. :-)
I'll take the chance to thank you everybody else for their understanding and support. To some I have expressed such in private, now I do so in public and thus not forget people.
But... there have been some gross words written here in my support, and even though I can understand why they appear, those I would prefer would not be written. Let's keep things friendly, or at least, even in the heat, polite :-)
Bravo Carlos, well said! Gustav. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/11/2016 06:16 PM, Richard Brown wrote:
Hi all,
Thanks to those participating in the conversation concerning mailing list moderation that did not resort to personal attacks, name calling, or implying ill will towards any particular member of the community.
We have reviewed both the direct feedback to board@opensuse.org and all comments of the various threads and have come to the following conclusion. While the imposed ban on Carlos from the lists was justified, well intentioned and has resolved the disruption that was occurring on some lists, in retrospect the ban had further reaching impacts than expected, including removing a good source of help from this opensuse@o.o mailinglist. For that, we would like to apologise.
We have asked the ML admin team to re-instate Carlos on opensuse@.o.o while keeping the positing restriction on other lists in place until February 14th.
Again thanks to those participating in the discussion that focused on the matter of the issue.
The openSUSE Board Andrew Wafaa Bruno Friedmann Kostas Koudaras Michal Hrušecký Richard Brown (Chair) Robert Schweikert I'm happy to hear that Carlos is re-instated on the list. I have only seen helpful and positive posts from him on this list. Gustav. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (15)
-
Adolph & Sharon Weidanz -
Basil Chupin -
Bernhard Voelker -
Bob Williams -
Carl Hartung -
Carlos E. R. -
Christopher Myers -
Daniel Bauer -
Gustav Degreef -
ianseeks -
jdd -
listreader -
Patrick Shanahan -
Richard Brown -
Thomas Taylor