[opensuse] Should I try kernel 4.5 on my Asus laptop?
Hi, for another thread I am tempted to give kernel 4.5 a try on my asus laptop (with leap), but I am not sure if this is intelligent... In fact, the only reason for a newer kernel (for me) would be that the touchpad is not recognized by the current kernel. Lots of questions...: - if I install a newer kernel, do the updates (zypper up and/or those update-messages that appear in the controlbar...) still work normal? Will I get the correct updates for leap, matching to the changed kernel? - do I run special risks? I tried up to kernel 4.4, but had to pass the parameter "idle=nomwait" (otherwise only a black screen would appear). It booted only to console modus, probably because I have installed suse-prime/nvidia drivers. I was not able to uninstall the nvidia-drivers without completely ruining my system (had to do a complete new system install). - Anybody has kernel 4.5 together with suse-prime running? How must I proceed? Finally: - does it make sense to install a newer kernel for a common user on a productive machine, the only one that I will have with me when travelling? Or do I better live without touchpad and have the standard system? Thanks for your input! Daniel -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona http://www.daniel-bauer.com room in Barcelona: https://www.airbnb.es/rooms/2416137 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Daniel Bauer wrote:
Hi,
for another thread I am tempted to give kernel 4.5 a try on my asus laptop (with leap), but I am not sure if this is intelligent...
In fact, the only reason for a newer kernel (for me) would be that the touchpad is not recognized by the current kernel.
Why not try it - it's easy to go back.
- does it make sense to install a newer kernel for a common user on a productive machine, the only one that I will have with me when travelling? Or do I better live without touchpad and have the standard system?
If the newer kernel makes your touchpad work, and you prefer using the touchpad, it seems to make sense to go for the newer kernel. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (8.3°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/24/2016 06:54 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Why not try it - it's easy to go back.
More to the point, it's easy to set up your /etc/zypp/zypp.conf to support a number of kernels and have them all appear in your grub2 menu. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Anton Aylward wrote:
On 03/24/2016 06:54 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Why not try it - it's easy to go back.
More to the point, it's easy to set up your /etc/zypp/zypp.conf to support a number of kernels
I think it might even be the default? -- Per Jessen, Zürich (10.3°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Anton Aylward wrote:
On 03/24/2016 06:54 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Why not try it - it's easy to go back. More to the point, it's easy to set up your /etc/zypp/zypp.conf to support a number of kernels I think it might even be the default? This is the default (on Tumbleweed): The running kernel, the latest kernel, and the latest-1 kernel are preserved. Often this isn't enough, e.g. if you have too new kernels from Kernel:stable. If you see a
Per Jessen wrote: problem not fast enough, the distribution kernel is already removed. from /etc/zypp/zypp.conf: ## ## Packages which can be installed in different versions at the same time. ## ## Packages are selected either by name, or by provides. In the later case ## the string must start with "provides:" immediately followed by the capability. ## ## Example: ## kernel - just packages whith name 'kernel' ## provides:multiversion(kernel) - all packages providing 'multiversion(kernel)' ## (kenel and kmp packages should do this) ## Valid values: ## Comma separated list of packages. ## ## Default value: ## empty ## multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel) ## Comma separated list of kernel packages to keep installed in parallel, if the ## above multiversion variable is set. Packages can be specified as ## 2.6.32.12-0.7 - Exact version to keep ## latest - Keep kernel with the highest version number ## latest-N - Keep kernel with the Nth highest version number ## running - Keep the running kernel ## oldest - Keep kernel with the lowest version number (the GA kernel) ## oldest+N - Keep kernel with the Nth lowest version number ## ## Note: This entry is not evaluated by libzypp, but by the ## purge-kernels service (via /sbin/purge-kernels). ## ## Default: Do not delete any kernels if multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel) is set multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,running Greetings, Björn -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/24/2016 01:01 PM, Bjoern Voigt wrote:
Anton Aylward wrote:
On 03/24/2016 06:54 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Why not try it - it's easy to go back. More to the point, it's easy to set up your /etc/zypp/zypp.conf to support a number of kernels I think it might even be the default? This is the default (on Tumbleweed): The running kernel, the latest kernel, and the latest-1 kernel are preserved. Often this isn't enough, e.g. if you have too new kernels from Kernel:stable. If you see a
Per Jessen wrote: problem not fast enough, the distribution kernel is already removed.
multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,running
I recently reset mine to multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,latest-2,running I did have the release for 13.1 as well as "latest-3" and "latest-4". I found that changes to BtrFS to solve other problems with earlier releases made the distribution kernel incompatible with what I had on disk. I decided that I'd rather have the fixed file system. I discarded the -3 and -4 when I found I was never using things that far back for any reason. It looks like I might even discard the -2. Each to his own; some people might want other versions for various reasons. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/24/2016 03:54 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Daniel Bauer wrote:
Hi,
for another thread I am tempted to give kernel 4.5 a try on my asus laptop (with leap), but I am not sure if this is intelligent...
In fact, the only reason for a newer kernel (for me) would be that the touchpad is not recognized by the current kernel.
Why not try it - it's easy to go back.
- does it make sense to install a newer kernel for a common user on a productive machine, the only one that I will have with me when travelling? Or do I better live without touchpad and have the standard system?
If the newer kernel makes your touchpad work, and you prefer using the touchpad, it seems to make sense to go for the newer kernel.
Isn't this where Mr. Brown delivers a tongue lashing about tainting your installation? ;-) Personally, I would work to getting the touch pad working under the normal kernel. Surely that must be a solvable problem without a kernel change. I suspect there is not much to be gained. I considered a later kernel on my 13.2 machine. Then I thought about it and realized every friggin thing on this laptop work. Every piece of hardware, every radio, sleep suspend resume, media buttons, encrypted partitions, VMWare, VPNs, external drives, Everything. Why would I want to mess with that? At most I might get a different choice of kernel scheduler. Woohoo.... IINBDFI. (if its not broke...) -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op donderdag 24 maart 2016 11:48:26 CET schreef Daniel Bauer:
Hi,
for another thread I am tempted to give kernel 4.5 a try on my asus laptop (with leap), but I am not sure if this is intelligent...
You should have a reason to do so.
In fact, the only reason for a newer kernel (for me) would be that the touchpad is not recognized by the current kernel.
Are you sure on this one ? What's the laptop's model?
Lots of questions...:
- if I install a newer kernel, do the updates (zypper up and/or those update-messages that appear in the controlbar...) still work normal? Will I get the correct updates for leap, matching to the changed kernel?
If you have precompiled kernel module packages ( *kmp* ) installed, these will match Leap's kernel not every kernel that's out there. F.e. re. the NVIDIA blob.
- do I run special risks?
See above
I tried up to kernel 4.4, but had to pass the parameter "idle=nomwait" (otherwise only a black screen would appear). It booted only to console modus, probably because I have installed suse-prime/nvidia drivers. I was not able to uninstall the nvidia-drivers without completely ruining my system (had to do a complete new system install).
Anything installed can be uninstalled too.
- Anybody has kernel 4.5 together with suse-prime running? How must I proceed?
I've got this running on Tumbleweed with kernel 4.5 ( It's TW's stock kernel atm ).
Finally:
- does it make sense to install a newer kernel for a common user on a productive machine, the only one that I will have with me when travelling? Or do I better live without touchpad and have the standard system?
If you actually have hardware that is not supported, it does, but I think you'd rather see if there is no way to have the touchpad working.
Thanks for your input!
Daniel
All in all I think the best way to investigate this and find a good solution is to go to http://forums.opensuse.org -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Am 24.03.2016 um 12:03 schrieb Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink:
Op donderdag 24 maart 2016 11:48:26 CET schreef Daniel Bauer:
In fact, the only reason for a newer kernel (for me) would be that the touchpad is not recognized by the current kernel.
Are you sure on this one ? What's the laptop's model?
Yes. Asus GL552VW-CN113T. All details are here: https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=969098
- if I install a newer kernel, do the updates (zypper up and/or those update-messages that appear in the controlbar...) still work normal? Will I get the correct updates for leap, matching to the changed kernel?
If you have precompiled kernel module packages ( *kmp* ) installed, these will match Leap's kernel not every kernel that's out there. F.e. re. the NVIDIA blob.
That seems to be one of the problems. I guess they came with the install of suse-prime.
I tried up to kernel 4.4, but had to pass the parameter "idle=nomwait" (otherwise only a black screen would appear). It booted only to console modus, probably because I have installed suse-prime/nvidia drivers. I was not able to uninstall the nvidia-drivers without completely ruining my system (had to do a complete new system install).
Anything installed can be uninstalled too.
If you know how and, above all, what :-)
- Anybody has kernel 4.5 together with suse-prime running? How must I proceed?
I've got this running on Tumbleweed with kernel 4.5 ( It's TW's stock kernel atm ).
I am afraid of tumbleweed. My idea is to have the stability of leap plus the new kernel. Maybe that's a strange or impossible idea, that's why I am asking.
Finally:
- does it make sense to install a newer kernel for a common user on a productive machine, the only one that I will have with me when travelling? Or do I better live without touchpad and have the standard system?
If you actually have hardware that is not supported, it does, but I think you'd rather see if there is no way to have the touchpad working.
It is unknown to the actual kernel, it is first recognized by kernel 4.3 iirc. -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona http://www.daniel-bauer.com room in Barcelona: https://www.airbnb.es/rooms/2416137 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op donderdag 24 maart 2016 12:22:00 CET schreef Daniel Bauer:
Am 24.03.2016 um 12:03 schrieb Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink:
Op donderdag 24 maart 2016 11:48:26 CET schreef Daniel Bauer:
In fact, the only reason for a newer kernel (for me) would be that the touchpad is not recognized by the current kernel.
Are you sure on this one ? What's the laptop's model?
Yes. Asus GL552VW-CN113T. All details are here: https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=969098
- if I install a newer kernel, do the updates (zypper up and/or those update-messages that appear in the controlbar...) still work normal? Will I get the correct updates for leap, matching to the changed kernel?
If you have precompiled kernel module packages ( *kmp* ) installed, these will match Leap's kernel not every kernel that's out there. F.e. re. the NVIDIA blob.
That seems to be one of the problems. I guess they came with the install of suse-prime.
I tried up to kernel 4.4, but had to pass the parameter "idle=nomwait" (otherwise only a black screen would appear). It booted only to console modus, probably because I have installed suse-prime/nvidia drivers. I was not able to uninstall the nvidia-drivers without completely ruining my system (had to do a complete new system install).
Anything installed can be uninstalled too.
If you know how and, above all, what :-)
- Anybody has kernel 4.5 together with suse-prime running? How must I proceed?
I've got this running on Tumbleweed with kernel 4.5 ( It's TW's stock kernel atm ).
I am afraid of tumbleweed. My idea is to have the stability of leap plus the new kernel. Maybe that's a strange or impossible idea, that's why I am asking.
Finally:
- does it make sense to install a newer kernel for a common user on a productive machine, the only one that I will have with me when travelling? Or do I better live without touchpad and have the standard system?
If you actually have hardware that is not supported, it does, but I think you'd rather see if there is no way to have the touchpad working.
It is unknown to the actual kernel, it is first recognized by kernel 4.3 iirc.
Well, maybe this is good news for you: - The nvidia packages for Optimus ( Intel + NVIDIA ) are not of the *kmp* type. They pull in the NVIDIA installer, unpack sources and have the driver compiled locally. Which works fine on TW that currently has kernel 4.5. I'd say the packages for Leap should simply build the kernel modules for any kernel they're supporting. - The touchpad is indeed supposed to work fine with kernel 4.5 So, in your case I would take following steps: 1. install Kernel 4.5 2. install the nvidia-bumblebee packages and suse-prime, as per instructions from the suse-prime package page If things don't work like expected, hit the forums. Use CODE tags to post any output requested. -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Am 24.03.2016 um 12:41 schrieb Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink: ....
Well, maybe this is good news for you: - The nvidia packages for Optimus ( Intel + NVIDIA ) are not of the *kmp* type. They pull in the NVIDIA installer, unpack sources and have the driver compiled locally. Which works fine on TW that currently has kernel 4.5. I'd say the packages for Leap should simply build the kernel modules for any kernel they're supporting. - The touchpad is indeed supposed to work fine with kernel 4.5
So, in your case I would take following steps: 1. install Kernel 4.5 2. install the nvidia-bumblebee packages and suse-prime, as per instructions from the suse-prime package page If things don't work like expected, hit the forums. Use CODE tags to post any output requested.
I gave it a try. As this laptop is new (no personal data yet, no further programs installed) I did a fresh install to be sure there was no nvidia stuff. I updated to current with zypper up. Then I did the following: zypper ar -f http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Kernel:/stable/standard \ Kernel:stable zypper in --from Kernel:stable kernel-desktop the repository was added, but the zypper in ended with "nothing to do" So I went to Yast, selected the 4.5 kernel, installed it and rebooted. It booted only to a black screen. I booted again with "idle=nomwait". It boots only to console mode, no graphical KDE... So, as already the first steps with kernel 4.5 cause problems, I guess there would be even more if I ever reached the point to install suse-prime. And as (for me) the only reason to have 4.5 is the touchpad, I think I'll better stay with the standard kernel and without touchpad... which (for me) only would be a nice-to-have, although a very-nice-to-have :-) ... Except that somebody convinces me here, I'll de-install kernel 4.5 tomorrow and just give it up on this... Thanks for your input and time! Daniel -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona http://www.daniel-bauer.com room in Barcelona: https://www.airbnb.es/rooms/2416137 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 24 Mar 2016, Daniel Bauer wrote:
Hi,
for another thread I am tempted to give kernel 4.5 a try on my asus laptop (with leap), but I am not sure if this is intelligent...
In fact, the only reason for a newer kernel (for me) would be that the touchpad is not recognized by the current kernel.
Lots of questions...:
- if I install a newer kernel, do the updates (zypper up and/or those update-messages that appear in the controlbar...) still work normal? Will I get the correct updates for leap, matching to the changed kernel?
- do I run special risks?
I tried up to kernel 4.4, but had to pass the parameter "idle=nomwait" (otherwise only a black screen would appear). It booted only to console modus, probably because I have installed suse-prime/nvidia drivers. I was not able to uninstall the nvidia-drivers without completely ruining my system (had to do a complete new system install).
- Anybody has kernel 4.5 together with suse-prime running? How must I proceed?
Finally:
- does it make sense to install a newer kernel for a common user on a productive machine, the only one that I will have with me when travelling? Or do I better live without touchpad and have the standard system?
Thanks for your input!
Daniel --
Kernel 4.5 failed to boot for my new ASUS ZENbook laptop. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
2016-03-24 11:48 keltezéssel, Daniel Bauer írta:
Hi,
for another thread I am tempted to give kernel 4.5 a try on my asus laptop (with leap), but I am not sure if this is intelligent...
In fact, the only reason for a newer kernel (for me) would be that the touchpad is not recognized by the current kernel.
Lots of questions...:
- if I install a newer kernel, do the updates (zypper up and/or those update-messages that appear in the controlbar...) still work normal? Will I get the correct updates for leap, matching to the changed kernel?
- do I run special risks?
I tried up to kernel 4.4, but had to pass the parameter "idle=nomwait" (otherwise only a black screen would appear). It booted only to console modus, probably because I have installed suse-prime/nvidia drivers. I was not able to uninstall the nvidia-drivers without completely ruining my system (had to do a complete new system install).
- Anybody has kernel 4.5 together with suse-prime running? How must I proceed?
Finally:
- does it make sense to install a newer kernel for a common user on a productive machine, the only one that I will have with me when travelling? Or do I better live without touchpad and have the standard system?
Thanks for your input!
Daniel
I have an ASUS K501UX laptop with Leap on i7-6500. I had troubles with Nvidia GTX 950M, no, toucpad, no wifi. I installed Kernel 4.5 stable from the kernel repo. All went fine though I was afraid because I had bad experience with installing a kernel other than the distro originally contined. The system boots, no need to set nomodeset, I have a decent screen resolution, though still have some error messages of nouveau. And I have touchpad now. But still no wifi. I have never used suse-prime and sorry, but I even do know nothing of it. Albert
On 03/24/2016 06:48 AM, Daniel Bauer wrote:
Hi,
for another thread I am tempted to give kernel 4.5 a try on my asus laptop (with leap), but I am not sure if this is intelligent...
In fact, the only reason for a newer kernel (for me) would be that the touchpad is not recognized by the current kernel.
Most of the advances of the 4.x series are not to the UI, which is more to do with application, and are to do with internals, such as spin loops, low level device handling. Your handling of the touchpad is, i presume, only relevant in the GUI. X11. Thus it might be a udev issue, a X11 config issue or even a KDE issue (there is a touchpad config in KDE's "systemsettings"). If you think the touchpad is not recognized by the kernel, you'll see a problem in 'dmesg'. It is more likely to be in the X11 For example, I get $ grep pad ${HOME}/.xsession-errors-\:0 kded(17751) Kded::loadModule: Could not load library "kded_touchpad" . [ "Cannot load library /usr/lib64/kde4/kded_touchpad.so: (libxcb-record.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory)" ] Also check /var/log/Xorg.0.log
Lots of questions...:
- if I install a newer kernel, do the updates (zypper up and/or those update-messages that appear in the controlbar...) still work normal? Will I get the correct updates for leap, matching to the changed kernel?
Again this is a UI level issue and not a kernel issue. Zypper and the widgets in the control bar as applications.
- do I run special risks?
I tried up to kernel 4.4, but had to pass the parameter "idle=nomwait" (otherwise only a black screen would appear). It booted only to console modus, probably because I have installed suse-prime/nvidia drivers. I was not able to uninstall the nvidia-drivers without completely ruining my system (had to do a complete new system install).
There's a lot of if-but-maybe around issues like this, depending on what else you were doing. Booting involves not just the kernel but grub or grub2, whatever you are using for you 'flash' screen out of grub, the graphical boot options (which I've long since disabled), how you did the mkinitrd and stuff like that. oh, and various daemons along the way. You might even have some old sysvinit scripts interfering. I can't peer over your shoulder and poke around on your machine to get to the "Ahh!" point, only ask questions. Like "how did you install and build your 4.4 ... in more detail", what's you baseline system? Is it 13.1 or 13.2?". Its a bit hard for me to comment; on the one had I've been doing this for so long and in such as conservative manner that i avoid many pitfalls by reflex.
- does it make sense to install a newer kernel for a common user on a productive machine, the only one that I will have with me when travelling? Or do I better live without touchpad and have the standard system?
1. Your touchpad problems are not kernel problems. They may be udev rule problems but are more likely to be X11 problems 2. Some of the benefit of later kernels have to do with speed and reliability of networking, internal locks and spin-loops that result in a smoother operation of the kernel, but are not immediately obvious at the user level. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Am 24.03.2016 um 15:24 schrieb Anton Aylward: ...
1. Your touchpad problems are not kernel problems. They may be udev rule problems but are more likely to be X11 problems
it IS a kernel problem, 4.1. does not know this touchpad, it has no problem with it, it just does not even see it :-) See: https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=969098 -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona http://www.daniel-bauer.com room in Barcelona: https://www.airbnb.es/rooms/2416137 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/24/2016 01:09 PM, Daniel Bauer wrote:
Am 24.03.2016 um 15:24 schrieb Anton Aylward: ...
1. Your touchpad problems are not kernel problems. They may be udev rule problems but are more likely to be X11 problems
it IS a kernel problem, 4.1. does not know this touchpad, it has no problem with it, it just does not even see it :-)
Hmm-mm Sounds like hardware to avoid :-( -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/24/2016 11:09 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 03/24/2016 01:09 PM, Daniel Bauer wrote:
Am 24.03.2016 um 15:24 schrieb Anton Aylward: ...
1. Your touchpad problems are not kernel problems. They may be udev rule problems but are more likely to be X11 problems
it IS a kernel problem, 4.1. does not know this touchpad, it has no problem with it, it just does not even see it :-)
Hmm-mm Sounds like hardware to avoid :-(
I was impressed at the lengths Daniel went to help debug that problem. I have touchpads on three of my laptops. But I invariably carry a small bluetooth "travel" mouse, and in some case I turn the touch pad off. In 13.2, the bluetooth radio does not come up (or maybe pair) with mice until after you are logged in, leaving me with only a touch-pad untill I get logged in. That seems dumb to me. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/24/2016 02:16 PM, John Andersen wrote:
I have touchpads on three of my laptops. But I invariably carry a small bluetooth "travel" mouse, and in some case I turn the touch pad off.
In 13.2, the bluetooth radio does not come up (or maybe pair) with mice until after you are logged in, leaving me with only a touch-pad untill I get logged in. That seems dumb to me.
Yaah! My phone does something like that. I turn it on and enter the code and then a message appears ate the bottom of the screen saying to connected to the local wifi network. Right <expletive> that, saving power and not radiating when I'm not logged in. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (8)
-
Albert, Oszkó -
Allen Wilkinson -
Anton Aylward -
Bjoern Voigt -
Daniel Bauer -
John Andersen -
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink -
Per Jessen