[Sent by Yahoo! Mobile.]
Look below. It's attached to EVERY mail.
-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
Jan Engelhardt --
On Friday 08 September 2006 00:13, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
[Sent by Yahoo! Mobile.]
Look below. It's attached to EVERY mail.
Jan Engelhardt --
Since he sent it from his phone he may not have access to all of that. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen
To unsubscribe, send any message (an empty one will do) to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com from the same account you're subscribed from. Paul
Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On 9/8/06, Mike Smith <mikesmith6@verizon.net> wrote:
Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
does nobody else see the sheer idiocy of appending the "commands, archives and FAQ" addresses to every list message ... but only giving instructions as to where ELSE to look for the unsubscribe address? The phrase "Check the headers for your unsubscription address" uses 49 characters. The phrase "To unsubscribe, send an email to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com from the same account you're subscribed from." user 113 characters. And it could be trimmed. What is the point of "hiding" the unsubscribe address in the header? Peter
On Friday 08 September 2006 21:26, Peter Van Lone wrote:
does nobody else see the sheer idiocy of appending the "commands, archives and FAQ" addresses to every list message ... but only giving instructions as to where ELSE to look for the unsubscribe address?
The phrase "Check the headers for your unsubscription address" uses 49 characters.
The phrase "To unsubscribe, send an email to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com from the same account you're subscribed from." user 113 characters. And it could be trimmed.
What is the point of "hiding" the unsubscribe address in the header?
Peter
'suse-linux-e-unsubscribe-columbo=wowway.com@suse.com' This is the email address format that is required when unsubscribing from this list AFAIK. Note the 'email address = domain name' format. I'm not sure if 'suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com' will do anything constructive at all. It might take more than 113 characters to explain it. Alternately, the subscriber could check the headers. Just a thought. regards, columbo -- KMail 1.9.3 - KDE 3.5.3 Level "a" SUSE 10.0 - Kernel 2.6.13-15.11-default Pentium 4 - CPU 3.00 GHz #292609 at http://counter.li.org/
On Friday 08 September 2006 10:05 pm, columbo wrote:
'suse-linux-e-unsubscribe-columbo=wowway.com@suse.com'
This is the email address format that is required when unsubscribing from this list AFAIK. Note the 'email address = domain name' format.
I'm not sure if
'suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com'
will do anything constructive at all.
The "email address = domain name" is necessary only if the email address isn't the one you're mailing from. So in the simple case it's not necessary; it's there just in case you're at location A but want to unsubscribe location B. Paul
On Friday 08 September 2006 23:12, Paul Abrahams wrote:
The "email address = domain name" is necessary only if the email address isn't the one you're mailing from. So in the simple case it's not necessary; it's there just in case you're at location A but want to unsubscribe location B.
Paul
I see. Thanks for the clarification on that. It's good to know. regards, columbo -- KMail 1.9.3 - KDE 3.5.3 Level "a" SUSE 10.0 - Kernel 2.6.13-15.11-default Pentium 4 - CPU 3.00 GHz #292609 at http://counter.li.org/
On Friday 08 September 2006 06:26 pm, Peter Van Lone wrote: <snip>
What is the point of "hiding" the unsubscribe address in the header?
Peter
I think it is because the unsubscribe address is 'personalized' (has ones own e-mail address within the link). But you'll not get me to argue with the thought that there has to be a better way ;-) -- Tony Alfrey tonyalfrey@earthlink.net "I'd Rather Be Sailing"
On Fri, September 8, 2006 7:43 pm, Tony Alfrey wrote:
On Friday 08 September 2006 06:26 pm, Peter Van Lone wrote: <snip>
What is the point of "hiding" the unsubscribe address in the header?
Peter
I think it is because the unsubscribe address is 'personalized' (has ones own e-mail address within the link). But you'll not get me to argue with the thought that there has to be a better way ;-)
Heh, I think they do it to make it easy for people like me, using Cotse as my email client. I have four links right above the subject - Help | Unsubscribe | Post to List | Reply to List. Simply clicking on one of those links allows me to perform the required action. I'm guessing, then, that they are doing the better way... -- Kai Ponte www.perfectreign.com || www.4thedadz.com remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request
On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 07:43:35PM -0700 or thereabouts, Tony Alfrey wrote:
On Friday 08 September 2006 06:26 pm, Peter Van Lone wrote:
What is the point of "hiding" the unsubscribe address in the header?
Peter
I think it is because the unsubscribe address is 'personalized' (has ones own e-mail address within the link). But you'll not get me to argue with the thought that there has to be a better way ;-)
It is not "personalized" at all. The list runs on EZMLM and it uses VERP. It is very modern as opposed to the other list managers. That is to say, it cleans itself from dead subscribers, by sending out probes after a certain amount of returned email. If the probe does not get through, it drops the user. This makes life very easy for the list admin, especially when dealing with millions of emails over many lIsts. Why some people have difficulty unsubscribing is because the list uses the envelope sender to subscibe, NOT the From: address... these can, and are often different email addresses, if you have or use an advanced email client that will do this, e.g. Mutt and many others that allow this feature. What does this all mean... you can use any email address to post to the list, any fake From: address is shown to the list, while hiding your secret subscribed email address to send (the envelope sender)... This way, when the list is harvested by spammers, and they capture addresses, they will not get your real email address.. -- Henry
Henry wrote:
On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 07:43:35PM -0700 or thereabouts, Tony Alfrey wrote:
On Friday 08 September 2006 06:26 pm, Peter Van Lone wrote:
What is the point of "hiding" the unsubscribe address in the header?
Peter
I think it is because the unsubscribe address is 'personalized' (has ones own e-mail address within the link). But you'll not get me to argue with the thought that there has to be a better way ;-)
It is not "personalized" at all.
<snip>
you can use any email address to post to the list, any fake From: address is shown to the list, while hiding your secret subscribed email address to send (the envelope sender)... <snip>
As I clearly stated, and as you have reiterated from the portion of your post that I have retained above, it has ones own email address within the link. You may not wish to use the word 'personalized' to describe this characteristic, but I (and I venture to say, 'others') would think this an apt description. -- Tony Alfrey tonyalfrey@earthlink.net "I'd Rather Be Sailing"
On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 03:24:19AM -0700 or thereabouts, Tony Alfrey wrote:
you can use any email address to post to the list, any fake From: address is shown to the list, while hiding your secret subscribed email address to send (the envelope sender)... <snip>
As I clearly stated, and as you have reiterated from the portion of your post that I have retained above, it has ones own email address within the link. You may not wish to use the word 'personalized' to describe this characteristic, but I (and I venture to say, 'others') would think this an apt description.
silly me, and here I thought this was a technical list where someone would actually like to know how the list operates, and how one can use it to their advantage regarding spammers..... I'll just keep it "personalized." -- Henry
Henry wrote:
On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 03:24:19AM -0700 or thereabouts, Tony Alfrey wrote:
you can use any email address to post to the list, any fake From: address is shown to the list, while hiding your secret subscribed email address to send (the envelope sender)... <snip>
As I clearly stated, and as you have reiterated from the portion of your post that I have retained above, it has ones own email address within the link. You may not wish to use the word 'personalized' to describe this characteristic, but I (and I venture to say, 'others') would think this an apt description.
silly me, and here I thought this was a technical list where someone would actually like to know how the list operates, and how one can use it to their advantage regarding spammers..... I'll just keep it "personalized."
The information you supplied was useful and appreciated. Your critique about my choice of the description 'personalized' was, as you say, 'silly'. And, as we see, 'inaccurate'. -- Tony Alfrey tonyalfrey@earthlink.net "I'd Rather Be Sailing"
On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 05:25:55AM -0700 or thereabouts, Tony Alfrey wrote:
Henry wrote:
silly me, and here I thought this was a technical list where someone would actually like to know how the list operates, and how one can use it to their advantage regarding spammers..... I'll just keep it "personalized."
The information you supplied was useful and appreciated. Your critique about my choice of the description 'personalized' was, as you say, 'silly'. And, as we see, 'inaccurate'.
sorry Bubba, I ain't goin' for the bait... You are one of the rare people who try to dissemble your obvious lack of knowledge with excessive verbiage..... life is too short to major in minor points. I don't have time to babysit.. now you are entered into the bit bucket permanently. -- Henry
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2006-09-08 at 22:29 -0500, Henry wrote:
Why some people have difficulty unsubscribing is because the list uses the envelope sender to subscibe, NOT the From: address... these can, and are often different email addresses, if you have or use an advanced email client that will do this, e.g. Mutt and many others that allow this feature.
Many others? Could you name a few, please? I'm interested. The only one I have found is mutt. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFAptytTMYHG2NR9URApQyAJ0S8CMDz8fLDLMc2//i4NrW03vGMACfbI8t yhdKIzDeOQzP4n5BhrRvFI0= =ZuaZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 12:46:08PM +0200 or thereabouts, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Friday 2006-09-08 at 22:29 -0500, Henry wrote:
Why some people have difficulty unsubscribing is because the list uses the envelope sender to subscibe, NOT the From: address... these can, and are often different email addresses, if you have or use an advanced email client that will do this, e.g. Mutt and many others that allow this feature.
Many others? Could you name a few, please? I'm interested. The only one I have found is mutt.
I have used TheBat under wine successfully, and I believe another GUI email client called Gemini. Regards, -- Henry
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2006-09-09 at 07:06 -0500, Henry wrote:
client that will do this, e.g. Mutt and many others that allow this feature.
Many others? Could you name a few, please? I'm interested. The only one I have found is mutt.
I have used TheBat under wine successfully, and I believe another GUI email client called Gemini.
Any native linux client? Pine, Mozilla, Thunderbird, Balsa, Kmail... none of them have that feature. Evolution I can't vouch, but I guess it doesn't. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFArFRtTMYHG2NR9URAgYJAJ0RLtFkSeULskrflGG0iTshWOwwtACfZgYR FVs0j/ukY57kfBriulqMmDg= =inGB -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 02:19:19PM +0200 or thereabouts, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I have used TheBat under wine successfully, and I believe another GUI email client called Gemini.
Any native linux client? Pine, Mozilla, Thunderbird, Balsa, Kmail... none of them have that feature. Evolution I can't vouch, but I guess it doesn't.
Yes, you might try Gemini from Intellegit, they have a Linux version also. I believe in the email editor, you can go into the (edit) headers and change just about anything IIRC... This is not a free program though, however, you get a 30 day trial when you submit an email address to them... I have not used it in quite awhile, as I still prefer Mutt. Kindest regards, -- Henry
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2006-09-09 at 07:27 -0500, Henry wrote:
Yes, you might try Gemini from Intellegit, they have a Linux version also. I believe in the email editor, you can go into the (edit) headers and change just about anything IIRC... This is not a free program though, however, you get a 30 day trial when you submit an email address to them... I have not used it in quite awhile, as I still prefer Mutt.
Then we still have to say that there are no known native linux mua's, except mutt, that have the ability to set the envelope_from separately. ;-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFAs94tTMYHG2NR9URAhfvAJ9l4eoYpz7WF/mV+Sanez3xdS0dxACfeYzZ V6vTX+3V9DyRONaftr5f7og= =edsD -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 04:28:07PM +0200 or thereabouts, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Saturday 2006-09-09 at 07:27 -0500, Henry wrote:
Yes, you might try Gemini from Intellegit, they have a Linux version also. I believe in the email editor, you can go into the (edit) headers and change just about anything IIRC... This is not a free program though, however, you get a 30 day trial when you submit an email address to them... I have not used it in quite awhile, as I still prefer Mutt.
Then we still have to say that there are no known native linux mua's, except mutt, that have the ability to set the envelope_from separately.
Yes, if you mean free and/or comes with the distro :)) I agree with you. BTW, another great GUI IMAP client, Mulberry is now in business again. It is FREE now... and they have a Linux version... however, Mulberry does not have the ability to set the envelope sender either... <www.mulberrymail.com> One of these days, Carlos, I am going to get you to switch over to Mutt :) One more thought, I must admit to you that I use Pine on occasion, for a change, and I do like it. Is there any way to change the default editor from Pico to Vim or emacs? I could not find a way to do this after looking at all the features. -- Henry
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2006-09-09 at 09:45 -0500, Henry wrote:
Then we still have to say that there are no known native linux mua's, except mutt, that have the ability to set the envelope_from separately.
Yes, if you mean free and/or comes with the distro :)) I agree with you.
BTW, another great GUI IMAP client, Mulberry is now in business again. It is FREE now... and they have a Linux version... however, Mulberry does not have the ability to set the envelope sender either... <www.mulberrymail.com>
One of these days, Carlos, I am going to get you to switch over to Mutt :)
X-) Difficult... as we say here, when frogs grow hair :-P
One more thought, I must admit to you that I use Pine on occasion, for a change, and I do like it. Is there any way to change the default editor from Pico to Vim or emacs? I could not find a way to do this after looking at all the features.
Well, right now I'm using jstar, one of the alias of joe. I don't have it as default, but as alternative: a single keystroke switches to it (^_). It shows things in color, it is mail aware, but that's a new feature in 10.1, I think. Let me go back to pine setup to find out where you set up this. [...] Yeap: |editor = jstar | | | [ Composer Preferences ] |... | [ ] enable-alternate-editor-cmd | [ ] enable-alternate-editor-implicitly If you tick the last setting, it will pop inmediately to the external editor as soon as you leave the header section, or inmediately if it is a reply. The only thing I really miss in Pine is the envelope_from. Then I would like it to be language aware, or at least, defining diferent langauge settings in the roles (for the dictionary and salutation lines). But I can live without them... - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFA/PXtTMYHG2NR9URAhXlAJ9al1FzZC0QQvyQS9juWz1OI4mEGQCfYbzp GJSqAmEvufvk8r4QxPyNHQ4= =H63S -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Sun, Sep 10, 2006 at 01:15:34PM +0200 or thereabouts, Carlos E. R. wrote:
One of these days, Carlos, I am going to get you to switch over to Mutt :)
Difficult... as we say here, when frogs grow hair :-P
LOL....
One more thought, I must admit to you that I use Pine on occasion, for a change, and I do like it. Is there any way to change the default editor from Pico to Vim or emacs? I could not find a way to do this after looking at all the features.
Well, right now I'm using jstar, one of the alias of joe. I don't have it as default, but as alternative: a single keystroke switches to it (^_). It shows things in color, it is mail aware, but that's a new feature in 10.1, I think. Let me go back to pine setup to find out where you set up this.
<snip> ah, many thanks for this. I will use this..
The only thing I really miss in Pine is the envelope_from. Then I would like it to be language aware, or at least, defining diferent langauge settings in the roles (for the dictionary and salutation lines). But I can live without them...
Yes, I agree, that would be a great asset, the envelope_from change. I did note that they listened to Pine users who wanted the ability to encrypt the message-ID: in the headers, so that the email address attached to it, could not be harvested from lists.. Maybe it will happen one day.. -- Henry
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2006-09-08 at 20:26 -0500, Peter Van Lone wrote:
What is the point of "hiding" the unsubscribe address in the header?
Because people top-posting would then mail "your" unsubscribe address to the wild :-P There is another reason; there are more headers: list-help: list-unsubscribe: list-post: X-Mailinglist: suse-linux-e With those standarized headers, list aware mail clients can add hot buttons for those actions. Even Pine does it: | [ Note: This message contains email list management information ] clicking there I get: | Mail List Commands | | Message 380 has information associated with it that explains how to participate in an email | list. An email list is represented by a single email address that users sharing a common | interest can send messages to (known as posting) which are then redistributed to all members of | the list (sometimes after review by a moderator). | | List participation commands in this message include: | | * A method to get information about the list and instructions on how to join. | | Select HERE to seek help. | | * A method to remove yourself from the list (Unsubscribe). | | Select HERE to UNsubscribe. | | * A method to send a message to the entire list (Post). | | Select HERE to post a message. Notice that there is no automated "reply" entry, by the way. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFAp19tTMYHG2NR9URAhinAJ4n3iLFrnmhDRM/0vYasuOjWUizrgCbBaJQ B8s+d8BvCgeRPxfhZI/9Gdc= =gP1k -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (11)
-
Carlos E. R. -
columbo -
Henry -
Jan Engelhardt -
John Andersen -
Matt Lotto -
Mike Smith -
Paul Abrahams -
PerfectReign -
Peter Van Lone -
Tony Alfrey