30 Nov
2012
30 Nov
'12
2:54 p.m.
Wouldn't it behoove MS, to implement the /home concept (separating the OS from the
users' data in different partitions) ?
Once I got "into" Linux, I never understood why MS did not implement this.
It would make it so much easier for all the support people (and users - who do their own
thing)
Any ideas ?
--
Duaine Hechler
Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ - Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding
(314) 838-5587 / dahechler(a)att.net / www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com
Home & Business user of Linux - 12 years
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30 Nov
30 Nov
3:05 p.m.
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On Friday, 2012-11-30 at 14:54 -0600, Duaine Hechler wrote:
Wouldn't it behoove MS, to implement the /home
concept (separating the OS
from the users' data in different partitions) ?
I don't see the relation of that question to openSUSE Linux, but as a
matter of fact, Windows does that. I installed Win 95 that way. I think I
did with 3.11, too, but I don't remember.
It simply is easier to install in one partition, and PC makers do not
like extra work without profits.
- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar)
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3:13 p.m.
On Fri, 2012-11-30 at 14:54 -0600, Duaine Hechler wrote:
Wouldn't it behoove MS, to implement the /home
concept (separating the OS from the users' data in different partitions) ?
Once I got "into" Linux, I never understood why MS did not implement this.
They did, and do.
Only they call it the user's "profile".
C:\Documents and Settings\{username}\....
There are even automatically set environment variables that point to the
appropriate subdirectories. For example %USERPROFILE% points to the
current user's profile and %TMP% points to %USERPROFILE%\AppData\Local
\Temp, etc....
It is LINUX that recently, and finally, - with XDG - decided to come up
with a standard most applications and environments follow. This verses
the plastering of the home directory with 'secret' dot directories and
files that nothing an nobody can manage.
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3:37 p.m.
I guess I did not make myself clear.
I'm talking about /home as a separate partition (and/or drive) - not just a separate
directory.
Duaine
On 11/30/2012 03:13 PM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
On Fri, 2012-11-30 at 14:54 -0600, Duaine Hechler
wrote:
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Duaine Hechler
Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ - Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding
(314) 838-5587 / dahechler(a)att.net / www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com
Home & Business user of Linux - 12 years
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Wouldn't it behoove MS, to implement the
/home concept (separating the OS from the users' data in different partitions) ?
Once I got "into" Linux, I never understood why MS did not implement this.
They did, and do.
Only they call it the user's "profile".
C:\Documents and Settings\{username}\....
There are even automatically set environment variables that point to the
appropriate subdirectories. For example %USERPROFILE% points to the
current user's profile and %TMP% points to %USERPROFILE%\AppData\Local
\Temp, etc....
It is LINUX that recently, and finally, - with XDG - decided to come up
with a standard most applications and environments follow. This verses
the plastering of the home directory with 'secret' dot directories and
files that nothing an nobody can manage.
3:48 p.m.
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On Friday, 2012-11-30 at 15:37 -0600, Duaine Hechler wrote:
I guess I did not make myself clear.
I'm talking about /home as a separate partition (and/or drive) - not just a
separate directory.
So do I.
As I said, the window systems I installed in 1995 were done that way. Two
partitions, one system, one user data.
- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar)
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5:36 p.m.
On 11/30/2012 03:48 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
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On Friday, 2012-11-30 at 15:37 -0600, Duaine Hechler wrote:
Not sure where you are
- but - not in my chunk for the US (Missouri - St. Louis)
Duaine
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Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ - Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding
(314) 838-5587 / dahechler(a)att.net / www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com
Home & Business user of Linux - 12 years
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I guess I did not make myself clear.
I'm talking about /home as a separate partition (and/or drive) - not just a separate
directory.
So do I.
As I said, the window systems I installed in 1995 were done that way. Two partitions, one
system, one user data.
- -- Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar)
7:02 p.m.
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On Friday, 2012-11-30 at 17:36 -0600, Duaine Hechler wrote:
Not sure where you are - but - not in my chunk for the
US (Missouri - St. Louis)
Huh?
- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar)
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3:25 p.m.
Am 30.11.2012 21:54, schrieb Duaine Hechler:
Wouldn't it behoove MS, to implement the /home
concept (separating the
OS from the users' data in different partitions) ?
Once I got "into" Linux, I never understood why MS did not implement
this.
It would make it so much easier for all the support people (and users
- who do their own thing)
Any ideas ?
This possibility exists for a very long time in windows (to be able to
mount a ntfs partition as a directory) it is just not used by default,
you need to do it yourself
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307889
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3:39 p.m.
On 11/30/2012 03:25 PM, Martin Helm wrote:
Am 30.11.2012 21:54, schrieb Duaine Hechler:
That was my point - is was not "default"
Duaine
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Duaine Hechler
Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ - Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding
(314) 838-5587 / dahechler(a)att.net / www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com
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Wouldn't it behoove MS, to implement the
/home concept (separating the
OS from the users' data in different partitions) ?
Once I got "into" Linux, I never understood why MS did not implement
this.
It would make it so much easier for all the support people (and users
- who do their own thing)
Any ideas ?
This possibility exists for a very long time in windows (to be able to
mount a ntfs partition as a directory) it is just not used by default,
you need to do it yourself
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307889
3:51 p.m.
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On Friday, 2012-11-30 at 15:39 -0600, Duaine Hechler wrote:
That was my point - is was not "default"
So? There are many non default choices in any system you can install.
- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar)
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1 Dec
1 Dec
8 a.m.
Am 30.11.2012 22:39, schrieb Duaine Hechler:
On 11/30/2012 03:25 PM, Martin Helm wrote:
Duaine,
what I wonder a bit about is why you do not ask that question to
Microsoft as they are the only ones to give you an authoritative answer.
Asking that question here only leads to speculation why they did not do
that.
I doubt there is a policy by them which forbids you to ask them that
question and that is what I would consider the most natural thing to do:
Ask directly the vendor of the operating system about the reasons for
their design decisions ad not someone else who is unrelated to it.
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Am 30.11.2012 21:54, schrieb Duaine Hechler:
That was my point - is was not "default"
Duaine
Wouldn't it behoove MS, to implement the
/home concept
(separating the OS from the users' data in different partitions)
?
Once I got "into" Linux, I never understood why MS did not
implement this.
It would make it so much easier for all the support people (and
users - who do their own thing)
Any ideas ?
This possibility exists for a very long time in windows (to be able
to mount a ntfs partition as a directory) it is just not used by
default, you need to do it yourself
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307889
30 Nov
30 Nov
7:40 p.m.
On 11/30/2012 1:25 PM, Martin Helm wrote:
Am 30.11.2012 21:54, schrieb Duaine Hechler:
Don't forget http://support.microsoft.com/kb/949977 which states
Wouldn't it behoove MS, to implement the
/home concept (separating the
OS from the users' data in different partitions) ?
Once I got "into" Linux, I never understood why MS did not implement
this.
It would make it so much easier for all the support people (and users
- who do their own thing)
Any ideas ?
This possibility exists for a very long time in windows (to be able to
mount a ntfs partition as a directory) it is just not used by default,
you need to do it yourself
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307889
Important:
These settings should be used only in a test environment. By changing the default
location
of the user profile directories or program data folders to a volume other than the System
volume,
you will not be able to service your Windows installation. Any updates, fixes, or service
packs
will fail to be applied to the installation. Microsoft does not recommend that you change
the
location of the user profile directories or program data folders.
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1 Dec
1 Dec
7:50 a.m.
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On Friday, 2012-11-30 at 17:40 -0800, John Andersen wrote:
Curious. There was not such a problem on earlier Windows versions.
Ah, wait: read this other paragraph:
These warnings were included before the servicing stack update (update
937287) was available. This update addresses the issue that is discussed
in the warning text. Windows AIK and the Windows OPK documentation reads
as follows. The Important notes no longer apply. The Caution notes still
apply. You will not be able to upgrade such installations to the next
version of Windows.
- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar)
On 11/30/2012 1:25 PM, Martin Helm wrote:
This
possibility exists for a very long time in windows (to be able to
mount a ntfs partition as a directory) it is just not used by default,
you need to do it yourself
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307889
Don't forget http://support.microsoft.com/kb/949977 which states
> Important:
> These settings should be used only in a test environment. By changing the default
location
> of the user profile directories or program data folders to a volume other than the
System volume,
> you will not be able to service your Windows installation. Any updates, fixes, or
service packs
> will fail to be applied to the installation. Microsoft does not recommend that you
change the
> location of the user profile directories or program data folders. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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2 Dec
2 Dec
11:37 a.m.
John Andersen wrote:
Don't forgethttp://support.microsoft.com/kb/949977
which states
> >Important:
> >These settings should be used only in a test environment. By changing the default
location
> >of the user profile directories or program data folders to a volume other than
the System volume,
> >you will not be able to service your Windows installation. Any updates, fixes, or
service packs
> >will fail to be applied to the installation. Microsoft does not recommend that
you change the
> >location of the user profile directories or program data folders.
In addition, some applications get confused by the different location
for "My Documents". For them, you have to specify the actual location
on, for example, D:.
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12:02 p.m.
On 02/12/12 18:37, James Knott wrote:
John Andersen wrote:
I'm surprized that Microsoft say that because that's exactly what you do
with samba or microsoft servers. You store the user home folder and his
profile on the file server and have his files served from there. If you
use folder redirection it's fast and transparent.
L x
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Don't
forgethttp://support.microsoft.com/kb/949977 which states
> >Important:
> >These settings should be used only in a test environment. By
> changing the default location
> >of the user profile directories or program data folders to a volume
> other than the System volume,
> >you will not be able to service your Windows installation. Any
> updates, fixes, or service packs
> >will fail to be applied to the installation. Microsoft does not
> recommend that you change the
> >location of the user profile directories or program data folders.
In addition, some applications get confused by the different location
for "My Documents". For them, you have to specify the actual location
on, for example, D:.
7:34 p.m.
On 12/2/2012 10:02 AM, lynn wrote:
On 02/12/12 18:37, James Knott wrote:
Well, no, you don't always do that on Samba or Microsoft servers.
Only if you want to support roaming profiles do you turn that on, and only if you want to
have a Domain Controller
managed network. Even on Domain Controller networks, roaming profiles are not always used.
(Many network managers
view them as a security risk).
Even for windows-only networks, I never recommend a Domain Controller or ask Samba to be a
Domain Controller
unless there are more than 50 users. Its just too much extra trouble.
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John Andersen wrote:
I'm surprized that Microsoft say that because that's exactly what you do
with samba or microsoft servers. You store the user home folder and
his profile on the file server and have his files served from there. If you use folder
redirection it's fast and transparent.
L x
Don't
forgethttp://support.microsoft.com/kb/949977 which states
> >Important:
> >These settings should be used only in a test environment. By changing the default
location
> >of the user profile directories or program data folders to a volume other than
the System volume,
> >you will not be able to service your Windows installation. Any updates, fixes, or
service packs
> >will fail to be applied to the installation. Microsoft does not recommend that
you change the
> >location of the user profile directories or program data folders.
In addition, some applications get confused by the different location for "My
Documents". For them, you have to specify the actual
location on, for example, D:.
5 Dec
5 Dec
10:57 a.m.
On Sun, 2012-12-02 at 12:37 -0500, James Knott wrote:
John Andersen wrote:
A broken application is the fault of nobody but the developer.
I've seen many UNIX applications that *ASSUME* the user's home directory
is /home/$LOGNAME rather than looking it up or just using $HOME. Those
apps are broken too.
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Don't
forgethttp://support.microsoft.com/kb/949977 which states
> >Important:
> >These settings should be used only in a test environment. By changing the default
location
> >of the user profile directories or program data folders to a volume other than
the System volume,
> >you will not be able to service your Windows installation. Any updates, fixes, or
service packs
> >will fail to be applied to the installation. Microsoft does not recommend that
you change the
> >location of the user profile directories or program data folders.
In
addition, some applications get confused by the different location
for "My Documents". For them, you have to specify the actual location
on, for example, D:. 
30 Nov
30 Nov
4:28 p.m.
On 2012-11-30 14:54 (GMT-0600) Duaine Hechler composed:
Wouldn't it behoove MS, to implement the /home
concept (separating the OS from the users' data in different partitions) ?
Once I got "into" Linux, I never understood
why MS did not implement this.
It would make it so much easier for all the support
people (and users - who do their own thing)
Any ideas ?
"Not invented here"?
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words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
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4:35 p.m.
Felix Miata wrote:
I suspect it grew from the DOS on floppy days, when a bootable floppy
would have DOS, the apps and data. When hard drives became popular,
they never moved beyond that idea. At least now, it's fairly easy to
set up a separate partition for "My Documents" etc.
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Any ideas ?
"Not invented here"?
4:50 p.m.
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On Friday, 2012-11-30 at 17:35 -0500, James Knott wrote:
Felix Miata wrote:
I suspect it grew from the DOS on floppy days, when a bootable floppy would
have DOS, the apps and data. When hard drives became popular, they never
moved beyond that idea. At least now, it's fairly easy to set up a separate
partition for "My Documents" etc.
Not true.
You always could put "My Documents" on a separate partition, since the
moment that directory was invented and partitions were available. I did
that since the start, way before I even heard of Linux around 1996.
If the people you bought your computer knew their stuff, they set up your
machine properly.
- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar)
Any ideas
?
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19 comments
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participants (8)
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