[opensuse] Why did Windows never do the equivalent of /home ?
Wouldn't it behoove MS, to implement the /home concept (separating the OS from the users' data in different partitions) ? Once I got "into" Linux, I never understood why MS did not implement this. It would make it so much easier for all the support people (and users - who do their own thing) Any ideas ? -- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ - Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding (314) 838-5587 / dahechler@att.net / www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com Home & Business user of Linux - 12 years -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2012-11-30 at 14:54 -0600, Duaine Hechler wrote:
Wouldn't it behoove MS, to implement the /home concept (separating the OS from the users' data in different partitions) ?
I don't see the relation of that question to openSUSE Linux, but as a matter of fact, Windows does that. I installed Win 95 that way. I think I did with 3.11, too, but I don't remember. It simply is easier to install in one partition, and PC makers do not like extra work without profits. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlC5H5QACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Wq0QCeOmk2kDIaQX1rC1z13o4fN9/7 63gAn3xl61aWb/rZMCAvZFFFcp/yG7+K =vf1t -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2012-11-30 at 14:54 -0600, Duaine Hechler wrote:
Wouldn't it behoove MS, to implement the /home concept (separating the OS from the users' data in different partitions) ? Once I got "into" Linux, I never understood why MS did not implement this.
They did, and do. Only they call it the user's "profile". C:\Documents and Settings\{username}\.... There are even automatically set environment variables that point to the appropriate subdirectories. For example %USERPROFILE% points to the current user's profile and %TMP% points to %USERPROFILE%\AppData\Local \Temp, etc.... It is LINUX that recently, and finally, - with XDG - decided to come up with a standard most applications and environments follow. This verses the plastering of the home directory with 'secret' dot directories and files that nothing an nobody can manage. -- Adam Tauno Williams GPG D95ED383 Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
I guess I did not make myself clear. I'm talking about /home as a separate partition (and/or drive) - not just a separate directory. Duaine On 11/30/2012 03:13 PM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
On Fri, 2012-11-30 at 14:54 -0600, Duaine Hechler wrote:
Wouldn't it behoove MS, to implement the /home concept (separating the OS from the users' data in different partitions) ? Once I got "into" Linux, I never understood why MS did not implement this. They did, and do.
Only they call it the user's "profile".
C:\Documents and Settings\{username}\....
There are even automatically set environment variables that point to the appropriate subdirectories. For example %USERPROFILE% points to the current user's profile and %TMP% points to %USERPROFILE%\AppData\Local \Temp, etc....
It is LINUX that recently, and finally, - with XDG - decided to come up with a standard most applications and environments follow. This verses the plastering of the home directory with 'secret' dot directories and files that nothing an nobody can manage.
-- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ - Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding (314) 838-5587 / dahechler@att.net / www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com Home & Business user of Linux - 12 years -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2012-11-30 at 15:37 -0600, Duaine Hechler wrote:
I guess I did not make myself clear.
I'm talking about /home as a separate partition (and/or drive) - not just a separate directory.
So do I. As I said, the window systems I installed in 1995 were done that way. Two partitions, one system, one user data. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlC5KbcACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WSggCfd2oxJ1SXBCn9WFouA15/652t CvsAn2bVDF0XQ/M1Mt+ayuQlZfZ31mm0 =fiyJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/30/2012 03:48 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On Friday, 2012-11-30 at 15:37 -0600, Duaine Hechler wrote:
I guess I did not make myself clear.
I'm talking about /home as a separate partition (and/or drive) - not just a separate directory.
So do I. As I said, the window systems I installed in 1995 were done that way. Two partitions, one system, one user data.
- -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) Not sure where you are - but - not in my chunk for the US (Missouri - St. Louis)
Duaine -- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ - Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding (314) 838-5587 / dahechler@att.net / www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com Home & Business user of Linux - 12 years -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2012-11-30 at 17:36 -0600, Duaine Hechler wrote:
Not sure where you are - but - not in my chunk for the US (Missouri - St. Louis)
Huh? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlC5V0kACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Vv7wCeKXqBuOUMmT19K7scY7dDaeN4 aNEAnRFpzKx5srNVVcQyHZT1QOcGhnjO =C3+O -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Am 30.11.2012 21:54, schrieb Duaine Hechler:
Wouldn't it behoove MS, to implement the /home concept (separating the OS from the users' data in different partitions) ?
Once I got "into" Linux, I never understood why MS did not implement this.
It would make it so much easier for all the support people (and users - who do their own thing)
Any ideas ?
This possibility exists for a very long time in windows (to be able to mount a ntfs partition as a directory) it is just not used by default, you need to do it yourself http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307889 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/30/2012 03:25 PM, Martin Helm wrote:
Am 30.11.2012 21:54, schrieb Duaine Hechler:
Wouldn't it behoove MS, to implement the /home concept (separating the OS from the users' data in different partitions) ?
Once I got "into" Linux, I never understood why MS did not implement this.
It would make it so much easier for all the support people (and users - who do their own thing)
Any ideas ?
This possibility exists for a very long time in windows (to be able to mount a ntfs partition as a directory) it is just not used by default, you need to do it yourself http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307889
That was my point - is was not "default" Duaine -- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ - Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding (314) 838-5587 / dahechler@att.net / www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com Home & Business user of Linux - 12 years -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2012-11-30 at 15:39 -0600, Duaine Hechler wrote:
That was my point - is was not "default"
So? There are many non default choices in any system you can install. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlC5Kk8ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VVeQCfaJ9AlgrVupH0Z1OhwDlqvvd0 YwgAniWU2Yk2VKwGHOTVJk+yG/FQvRZR =XzyP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Am 30.11.2012 22:39, schrieb Duaine Hechler:
On 11/30/2012 03:25 PM, Martin Helm wrote:
Am 30.11.2012 21:54, schrieb Duaine Hechler:
Wouldn't it behoove MS, to implement the /home concept (separating the OS from the users' data in different partitions) ?
Once I got "into" Linux, I never understood why MS did not implement this.
It would make it so much easier for all the support people (and users - who do their own thing)
Any ideas ?
This possibility exists for a very long time in windows (to be able to mount a ntfs partition as a directory) it is just not used by default, you need to do it yourself http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307889
That was my point - is was not "default"
Duaine
Duaine, what I wonder a bit about is why you do not ask that question to Microsoft as they are the only ones to give you an authoritative answer. Asking that question here only leads to speculation why they did not do that. I doubt there is a policy by them which forbids you to ask them that question and that is what I would consider the most natural thing to do: Ask directly the vendor of the operating system about the reasons for their design decisions ad not someone else who is unrelated to it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/30/2012 1:25 PM, Martin Helm wrote:
Am 30.11.2012 21:54, schrieb Duaine Hechler:
Wouldn't it behoove MS, to implement the /home concept (separating the OS from the users' data in different partitions) ?
Once I got "into" Linux, I never understood why MS did not implement this.
It would make it so much easier for all the support people (and users - who do their own thing)
Any ideas ?
This possibility exists for a very long time in windows (to be able to mount a ntfs partition as a directory) it is just not used by default, you need to do it yourself http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307889
Don't forget http://support.microsoft.com/kb/949977 which states
Important: These settings should be used only in a test environment. By changing the default location of the user profile directories or program data folders to a volume other than the System volume, you will not be able to service your Windows installation. Any updates, fixes, or service packs will fail to be applied to the installation. Microsoft does not recommend that you change the location of the user profile directories or program data folders.
-- _____________________________________ ---This space for rent--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2012-11-30 at 17:40 -0800, John Andersen wrote:
On 11/30/2012 1:25 PM, Martin Helm wrote:
This possibility exists for a very long time in windows (to be able to mount a ntfs partition as a directory) it is just not used by default, you need to do it yourself http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307889
Don't forget http://support.microsoft.com/kb/949977 which states
Important: These settings should be used only in a test environment. By changing the default location of the user profile directories or program data folders to a volume other than the System volume, you will not be able to service your Windows installation. Any updates, fixes, or service packs will fail to be applied to the installation. Microsoft does not recommend that you change the location of the user profile directories or program data folders.
Curious. There was not such a problem on earlier Windows versions. Ah, wait: read this other paragraph: These warnings were included before the servicing stack update (update 937287) was available. This update addresses the issue that is discussed in the warning text. Windows AIK and the Windows OPK documentation reads as follows. The Important notes no longer apply. The Caution notes still apply. You will not be able to upgrade such installations to the next version of Windows. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlC6CysACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WJqwCfV2oLcv9iPBJBLUCgoOjHcRGR EUYAmwXaRPcsXBP4+NceCjiT61s9+dZA =NmtQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
John Andersen wrote:
Don't forgethttp://support.microsoft.com/kb/949977 which states
Important: These settings should be used only in a test environment. By changing the default location of the user profile directories or program data folders to a volume other than the System volume, you will not be able to service your Windows installation. Any updates, fixes, or service packs will fail to be applied to the installation. Microsoft does not recommend that you change the location of the user profile directories or program data folders.
In addition, some applications get confused by the different location for "My Documents". For them, you have to specify the actual location on, for example, D:. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 02/12/12 18:37, James Knott wrote:
John Andersen wrote:
Don't forgethttp://support.microsoft.com/kb/949977 which states
Important: These settings should be used only in a test environment. By changing the default location of the user profile directories or program data folders to a volume other than the System volume, you will not be able to service your Windows installation. Any updates, fixes, or service packs will fail to be applied to the installation. Microsoft does not recommend that you change the location of the user profile directories or program data folders.
In addition, some applications get confused by the different location for "My Documents". For them, you have to specify the actual location on, for example, D:.
I'm surprized that Microsoft say that because that's exactly what you do with samba or microsoft servers. You store the user home folder and his profile on the file server and have his files served from there. If you use folder redirection it's fast and transparent. L x -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/2/2012 10:02 AM, lynn wrote:
On 02/12/12 18:37, James Knott wrote:
John Andersen wrote:
Don't forgethttp://support.microsoft.com/kb/949977 which states
Important: These settings should be used only in a test environment. By changing the default location of the user profile directories or program data folders to a volume other than the System volume, you will not be able to service your Windows installation. Any updates, fixes, or service packs will fail to be applied to the installation. Microsoft does not recommend that you change the location of the user profile directories or program data folders.
In addition, some applications get confused by the different location for "My Documents". For them, you have to specify the actual location on, for example, D:.
I'm surprized that Microsoft say that because that's exactly what you do with samba or microsoft servers. You store the user home folder and his profile on the file server and have his files served from there. If you use folder redirection it's fast and transparent. L x
Well, no, you don't always do that on Samba or Microsoft servers. Only if you want to support roaming profiles do you turn that on, and only if you want to have a Domain Controller managed network. Even on Domain Controller networks, roaming profiles are not always used. (Many network managers view them as a security risk). Even for windows-only networks, I never recommend a Domain Controller or ask Samba to be a Domain Controller unless there are more than 50 users. Its just too much extra trouble. -- _____________________________________ ---This space for rent--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, 2012-12-02 at 12:37 -0500, James Knott wrote:
John Andersen wrote:
Don't forgethttp://support.microsoft.com/kb/949977 which states
Important: These settings should be used only in a test environment. By changing the default location of the user profile directories or program data folders to a volume other than the System volume, you will not be able to service your Windows installation. Any updates, fixes, or service packs will fail to be applied to the installation. Microsoft does not recommend that you change the location of the user profile directories or program data folders. In addition, some applications get confused by the different location for "My Documents". For them, you have to specify the actual location on, for example, D:.
A broken application is the fault of nobody but the developer. I've seen many UNIX applications that *ASSUME* the user's home directory is /home/$LOGNAME rather than looking it up or just using $HOME. Those apps are broken too. -- Adam Tauno Williams GPG D95ED383 Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2012-11-30 14:54 (GMT-0600) Duaine Hechler composed:
Wouldn't it behoove MS, to implement the /home concept (separating the OS from the users' data in different partitions) ?
Once I got "into" Linux, I never understood why MS did not implement this.
It would make it so much easier for all the support people (and users - who do their own thing)
Any ideas ?
"Not invented here"? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Felix Miata wrote:
Any ideas ?
"Not invented here"?
I suspect it grew from the DOS on floppy days, when a bootable floppy would have DOS, the apps and data. When hard drives became popular, they never moved beyond that idea. At least now, it's fairly easy to set up a separate partition for "My Documents" etc. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2012-11-30 at 17:35 -0500, James Knott wrote:
Felix Miata wrote:
Any ideas ?
"Not invented here"?
I suspect it grew from the DOS on floppy days, when a bootable floppy would have DOS, the apps and data. When hard drives became popular, they never moved beyond that idea. At least now, it's fairly easy to set up a separate partition for "My Documents" etc.
Not true. You always could put "My Documents" on a separate partition, since the moment that directory was invented and partitions were available. I did that since the start, way before I even heard of Linux around 1996. If the people you bought your computer knew their stuff, they set up your machine properly. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlC5OCcACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Vc4ACfRmp79HW/8l7H+FGn8WSL2ONg FVMAniFOD5DM3Kd7B7pRmSsF1CIZ2YzZ =nk8s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (8)
-
Adam Tauno Williams -
Carlos E. R. -
Duaine Hechler -
Felix Miata -
James Knott -
John Andersen -
lynn -
Martin Helm