Post Nazis (WAS: Re: [SLE] Software Updates)
Curtis Rey wrote:
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On Thu August 17 2006 20:14, PerfectReign wrote:
Curtis Rey wrote: <snip>
So, please take this into consideration when you need to post to get answers (it also - highjacking - tends to get your question ignored, at least by many of the true guru's on the list).
HTH and Cheers. Curtis.
...hook, line and sinker...
And I wager you'll do quite well on the list - and get a lot of help with any issues you my have. But as long as your enjoying yourself I guess that's all that matters... Right?
Well, I figure since this list had degenerated over the past six months into little more than etiquette Nazis posting inflammatory remarks about any minor violation, I'm not losing much. Most of my questions on this list have gone unanswered - why should this one be any different? I've found recently I'm getting better help using other avenues. The people on this list for the most part are knowledgeable, but it is very frustrating trying to sift through the mountains of dogma being posted here about what one should and should not post. It is obvious that the Gestapo has taken over. Long derisive posts about etiquette have no business here or in any forum, except in a FAQ. If you want to point someone to a FAQ, feel free. It would also be much more acceptable if you answer the question being posed, then politely point to the FAQ. I'm a relative newbie to forum posting, having only started in the late '80s, but I've seen enough good mailing lists and sites to know when a post is warranted or not. Your previous post was completely off the mark and not needed. I was obviously making a reference to the pathetic nature of those here who choose to dictate manners rather than simply help. I half expected someone to post an answer such as you did, and am glad I got the chance to write this. If you - or others on this list don't feel that you should act as adults and answer questions, then fine. I'll continue to do my best to promote Linux and SUSE by providing informative answers to questions. -- Kai Ponte www.perfectreign.com Kein Zeitungsknabe wird uns jemals befehlen, was grad alt oder brandneu ist. Damit würd' er höchstens soviel erzielen, wie ein Hund, der gegen Bäume pisst...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2006-08-18 at 07:15 -0700, PerfectReign wrote:
Well, I figure since this list had degenerated over the past six months into little more than etiquette Nazis posting inflammatory
You are godwinated. Thread killed, you lost the argument. :-P (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_Law) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFE5c7rtTMYHG2NR9URAjMvAKCEoyfUmdigcSk02BMUHewPN4WKEwCeKcHk S+zRvTydOFGI6ll1ezpbI+E= =YGsC -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 16:30 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
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The Friday 2006-08-18 at 07:15 -0700, PerfectReign wrote:
Well, I figure since this list had degenerated over the past six months into little more than etiquette Nazis posting inflammatory
You are godwinated. Thread killed, you lost the argument. :-P
Precisely the attitude that now has him relegated to /dev/null. Sorry but you don't join a list like this and start telling/expecting everyone else to change to the way you want it to be. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998
From: "Ken Schneider" <suse-list2@bout-tyme.net>
On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 16:30 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
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The Friday 2006-08-18 at 07:15 -0700, PerfectReign wrote:
Well, I figure since this list had degenerated over the past six months into little more than etiquette Nazis posting inflammatory
You are godwinated. Thread killed, you lost the argument. :-P
Precisely the attitude that now has him relegated to /dev/null. Sorry but you don't join a list like this and start telling/expecting everyone else to change to the way you want it to be.
Well, I can see SUSE is a failed experiment. I don't believe I shall ever recommend SUSE to an unsuspecting newbie. And I suspect (much to the relief of the anal retentive babies on this list) that I shall be (reluctantly) returning to FC. (Besides, SUSE doesn't work right on my laptop anyway. And nobody has cared to answer the questions I posted. But hooboy can they get hot about so called "list protocols" and the like.) {^_^}
On Friday 18 August 2006 16:49, jdow wrote:
From: "Ken Schneider" <suse-list2@bout-tyme.net>
On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 16:30 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
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The Friday 2006-08-18 at 07:15 -0700, PerfectReign wrote:
Well, I figure since this list had degenerated over the past six months into little more than etiquette Nazis posting inflammatory
You are godwinated. Thread killed, you lost the argument. :-P
Precisely the attitude that now has him relegated to /dev/null. Sorry but you don't join a list like this and start telling/expecting everyone else to change to the way you want it to be.
Well, I can see SUSE is a failed experiment. I don't believe I shall ever recommend SUSE to an unsuspecting newbie. And I suspect (much to the relief of the anal retentive babies on this list) that I shall be (reluctantly) returning to FC. (Besides, SUSE doesn't work right on my laptop anyway. And nobody has cared to answer the questions I posted. But hooboy can they get hot about so called "list protocols" and the like.)
{^_^}
Its a shame that this list is going this way but I do agree alot of questions go unanswered in a big way. There is alot more B.S> on here than most lists I have been on or am on, too bad really. -- LostSon http://www.lostsonsvault.org /\ \ \ \__/ \__/ \ \ (oo) (oo) \_\/~~\_/~~\_ _.-~===========~-._ (___________________) \_______/ I Want To Believe
<snip> my laptop anyway. And nobody has cared to answer the questions I posted. Perhaps no one has any experience with your particular model. Equally
SuSE is not a "failed experiment;" on the contrary, it is a very successful and generally very stable distribution. SuSE is much larger in Europe than any other Linux distribution there is, and for you to speculate on its successes and failures based on your limited experience, together with the rather sudden increase in the noise on this list, does no one a greater disservice than yourself. You have had the mischance of getting involved with it at a single point in its history, one which unfortunately involves a broken version. Have you tried installed 10.0 on your laptop? If not, then perhaps you should do so -- or wait until 10.2 hits RC (or at least beta) stage. As for the rest.... On 18/08/06 15:49, jdow wrote: possible, the general attitude of the person asking the question has a rather large bearing on whether or not that person's specific questions will go unanswered. In your case, it is indeed possible that you have not received any responses simply because no one *wants* to respond, based on your contributions to other threads. All that being said, if you would send me an identical model to yours, I will be pleased to attempt to install 10.1 on it -- having no need or desire to possess a laptop, I will even send it back to you when I am done, provided of course that you pre-pay the return postage.
But hooboy can they get hot about so called "list protocols" and the like.) I would like to say that this needs no comment, because it does.
When I said "sudden increase in noise" above, I was of course being polite to those who are posting the noise (all of whom will, of course, deny having done such a thing, all the while pointing all their fingers at someone else). There has been less garbage posted in the endless debate over whether or not Pluto is a planet, than has been posted of late on this list, ranging from the endless Saga of the Misplaced Unsubscribe Message to the raging Battle of the Top Post to just about anything else anyone could conceivably imagine (including the recent, and completely inane, War of the Header Hacker). I wholly expect some morning to wake up and find my mail full of a raging debate on whether a boiled egg should be cracked at the big end or the little. There is, of course, nothing anyone can do or say that will end it all. All that can be done is to try, however hard it might be, to wade through the piles of bovine effluent, looking for the little pieces of buckwheat that are surely there.
On Friday 18 August 2006 09:30, Carlos E. R. wrote:
You are godwinated. Thread killed, you lost the argument. :-P
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_Law) Yup. You know you've won the argument as soon as the other party resorts to name-calling. Godwin's Law would be funny if it weren't pathetically true.
What was the question? :) -- Kind regards, Mark H. Harris <>< harrismh777@earthlink.net
On Friday 18 August 2006 10:15, PerfectReign wrote:
it is very frustrating trying to sift through the mountains of dogma being posted here about what one should and should not post.
I agree. Get a life people! Bryan *************************************** Powered by Kubuntu Linux 6.06 KDE 3.5.2 KMail 1.9.1 This is a Microsoft-free computer Bryan S. Tyson bryantyson@earthlink.net ***************************************
On Friday 18 August 2006 16:15, PerfectReign wrote:
Curtis Rey wrote:
Well, I figure since this list had degenerated over the past six months into little more than etiquette Nazis posting inflammatory remarks about any minor violation, I'm not losing much. Most of my questions on this list have gone unanswered - why should this one be any different?
I've found recently I'm getting better help using other avenues. The people on this list for the most part are knowledgeable, but it is very frustrating trying to sift through the mountains of dogma being posted here about what one should and should not post. It is obvious that the Gestapo has taken over.
Long derisive posts about etiquette have no business here or in any forum, except in a FAQ. If you want to point someone to a FAQ, feel free. It would also be much more acceptable if you answer the question being posed, then politely point to the FAQ.
I'm a relative newbie to forum posting, having only started in the late '80s, but I've seen enough good mailing lists and sites to know when a post is warranted or not. Your previous post was completely off the mark and not needed. I was obviously making a reference to the pathetic nature of those here who choose to dictate manners rather than simply help. I half expected someone to post an answer such as you did, and am glad I got the chance to write this. If you - or others on this list don't feel that you should act as adults and answer questions, then fine. I'll continue to do my best to promote Linux and SUSE by providing informative answers to questions.
-- Kai Ponte www.perfectreign.com
Here Here,,, Finally, someone with sense... I give 9 out of ten points to an informative answer.... add one point for compliance to Mailling list etiquette... I mean this is a Maillist who's purpose is to ask and answer questions about SUSE right? Not a list about how one should write lists? Of course If you don't like the way someone writes "Hello" then you don't have to answer. If you insist on bottom posting, and some unknowledged fool top posts, then you don't have to answer... But this list is extremely high volume, almost to the limits of me being able to cope with... So can we reduce the number of "how to type" msgs and stick to the beef? I've been on this list for years. And realize that the character of the list is changing. This is brought on by the massive influx of SUSE newbies brought on by the increase of sales since NOVEL bought SUSE. Where we used to have enthusiastic but polite hobbyists, we now have mad users who feel they are cheated cause SUSE did not do something they felt it should have out of the box. I really hate to tell you guys this, but you are bucking change. There ain't no way you are going to keep the list the nice neat super informative little list it was before. It's no longer a little creek but fast becoming a raging river which no one can controll... It's called progress, and it aint all good! You efforts would be better spent trying to divide the list into newbies and advanced lists, where you could expect the advanced list users to be more informed and polite than the newbies... Of course you'll need a new level of supporters, to help the newbies, with the same questions over and over again... JMIO (just my inflated opinion) Jerry Westrick
On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 22:56 +0200, Jerry Westrick wrote:
On Friday 18 August 2006 16:15, PerfectReign wrote:
<snip> If you insist on bottom posting, and some unknowledged fool top posts, then you don't have to answer...
If the list admin would post a set of protocols that should be followed to make this list more enjoyable we wouldn't have all of this nonsense going on now. But since there are no posted protocols to follow it is only common sense to see how the list has run for years as a viable source of knowledgeable information with only three wishes for the posters. 1. Please do not top-post 2. Please do not hi-jack threads 3. Trim your quotes.
But this list is extremely high volume,
Which is why the long timers on this list ask that certain protocols be followed to help cut down on the volume.
almost to the limits of me being able to cope with... So can we reduce the number of "how to type" msgs and stick to the beef?
I've been on this list for years. And realize that the character of the list is changing. This is brought on by the massive influx of SUSE newbies brought on by the increase of sales since NOVEL bought SUSE. Where we used to have enthusiastic but polite hobbyists, we now have mad users who feel they are cheated cause SUSE did not do something they felt it should have out of the box.
Then they need to be enlightened as to why. Somehow many new people seem to think that linux is a be all to end all OS. Well it isn't, yet. And it won't be until the hardware manufacturers start providing proper drivers for their product.
I really hate to tell you guys this, but you are bucking change. There ain't no way you are going to keep the list the nice neat super informative little list it was before.
And why is that? Why can't it stay the "nice neat super informative" list that it was in the past? Because new people come here and all of a sudden don't want to follow tradition that has worked well in the past. They are asked politely to follow a few simple "protocols" and they (not all) become belligerent and non-conforming.
It's no longer a little creek but fast becoming a raging river which no one can control...
And that is the problem the list admin will not exert any control.
It's called progress, and it ain't all good!
If progress "ain't good" then it needs to change to be good or revert back to what was good. -- Ken Schneider list member since 1998
On Saturday 19 August 2006 05:42, Ken Schneider wrote:
Which is why the long timers on this list ask that certain protocols be followed to help cut down on the volume.
I do wish you'd stop trying to rewrite history. Except for a very few individuals, this list has historically been free from people who place form over content. In fact, it used to be that people came to SLE to get away from the extremely fanatical people on the German list So please stop talking about "long timers", as if they were all of one mind and all agreed with you and Shanahan, because it's just not true Now PLEASE let this discussion, and all others like it DIE, and let's get back to technical issues
On Sat, Aug 19, 2006 11:57:58 AM +0200, Anders Johansson (andjoh@rydsbo.net) wrote:
Except for a very few individuals, this list has historically been free from people who place form over content.
What you and the others oh-so-mature folks who don't care about "form over content" keep ignoring is that, at least in cases like these, it is not asked "just because they did it so in the old times" or "so you will look good in the pictures we'll send to grandma". On a high traffic mailing list "form over content" is essential for ACTUAL EFFICIENCY. If posts are always properly titled, trimmed as much as possible, bottom posted, threads not hijacked, OT threads asked to stop immediately etc.... both learning (even from the archives) and giving help become much EASIER and FASTER. That's it, whether you like it or not. Otherwise, as another subscriber mentioned in this thread, this is EXACTLY why:
I do agree alot of questions go unanswered in a big way. There is alot more B.S on here than most lists I have been on or am on, too bad really.
And I can only agree with him. Me, I was really amazed to see some months ago that absolutely OT rambling on measure units and paper sizes going on for 100+ messages without moderation. I remained subscribed only to see how long it would be allowed to go on. Then I unsubscribed, then I came back recently, only to find the same situation because rules are not enforced. As far as your conclusion goes:
Now PLEASE let this discussion, and all others like it DIE, and let's get back to technical issues
The only thing you get with the "free form" attitude is that those who can help MORE on technical issues INVARIABLY go somewhere else to not waste their time. Never mind me, though. This is almost surely the last time I enter such topics here. I'll probably unsubscribe soon, since the noise (not the one on "form over content", the one coming because "form over content" is not applied) is too high. I *have* received useful help several times here, and for that I'm grateful, but enduring thousands of UNREADABLE/OT messages is too tiring to remain subscribed continuously (ie keep learning and helping others when I could). In any case, I agree with the other guy who said SUSE is not a good distribution for newbies. I too would be reluctant to recommend it, if the main online forum is messed up as it is these days. Ciao, Marco -- Marco Fioretti mfioretti, at the server mclink.it Fedora Core 5 for low memory http://www.rule-project.org/ Cyberspace makes every place the same. But we're planning to put five billion people in it. [That] will freeze the entire species. Everything will stop dead in its tracks. Everyone will think the same thing at the same time. -- Michael Crichton, "The Lost World"
On 19/08/06 04:47, M. Fioretti wrote:
On Sat, Aug 19, 2006 11:57:58 AM +0200, Anders Johansson (andjoh@rydsbo.net) wrote:
Except for a very few individuals, this list has historically been free from people who place form over content.
What you and the others oh-so-mature folks who don't care about "form over content" keep ignoring is that, at least in cases like these, it is not asked "just because they did it so in the old times" or "so you will look good in the pictures we'll send to grandma".
On a high traffic mailing list "form over content" is essential for ACTUAL EFFICIENCY. If posts are always <blah blah blah>
What you and other form-above-all freaks don't care about is that all your blabbering isn't going to change a thing.. people will still hijack threads, people will still top-post, people will continue to include excessive quoting, because they don't know and/or don't care, and they are not about to change simply because of a whole load of drivel that keeps getting posted over and over and over again. I sympathize with you about your metered connection, but you are only adding to your own cost burden by continuing these moronic threads which do nothing to correct the perceived errant behaviour of the few, but do a great deal to clobber the list's signal-to-noise ratio. You need to learn how to separate the bovine effluent from the buckwheat, and carry on.
On Sat, Aug 19, 2006 07:12:41 AM -0600, Darryl Gregorash (raven@accesscomm.ca) wrote:
What you and other form-above-all freaks don't care about is that all your blabbering isn't going to change a thing.. people will still hijack threads, people will still top-post, people will continue to include excessive quoting,
No problem. I probably won't be here to endure it, and we'll all keep reading articles in the press for years about how Linux remains just a niche OS for computer freaks, the community support in open source is actually worthless and so on...
I sympathize with you about your metered connection, but you are only adding to your own cost burden... You need to learn how to separate the bovine effluent from the buckwheat
Separate when? When it doesn't matter anymore? Show me a way to not *download* (=pay) all the unreadable messages and I'll go for it. In any case, remember that what adds more to the cost is NOT those who post unreadable messages, but those who ANSWER them, allowing the "bovine effluent" to continue and eventually constituting the greatest part of it. In any case, as I already said, never mind me, really. I'll probably just unsubscribe after this thread. Ciao, Marco -- Marco Fioretti mfioretti, at the server mclink.it Fedora Core 5 for low memory http://www.rule-project.org/ A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. R. A. Heinlein
M. Fioretti wrote:
In any case, I agree with the other guy who said SUSE is not a good distribution for newbies. I too would be reluctant to recommend it, if the main online forum is messed up as it is these days.
I don't think the quality of the available discussion/help fora should have any influence on whether the distro is suitable for newbies or not. If that was the case, Windows would never have gotten off the ground. /Per Jessen, Zürich
On Sat, Aug 19, 2006 22:13:46 PM +0200, Per Jessen (per@computer.org) wrote:
M. Fioretti wrote:
In any case, I agree with the other guy who said SUSE is not a good distribution for newbies. I too would be reluctant to recommend it, if the main online forum is messed up as it is these days. > I don't think the quality of the available discussion/help fora should have any influence on whether the distro is suitable for newbies or not.
Right, but only in theory. Most newbies are still those who must not _choose_ between Windows and some Linux. They have Windows preinstalled and need support to _abandon_ it.
If that was the case, Windows would never have gotten off the ground.
Windows wasn't a choice for non hackers. It was what was _already_ in the box. That's why I (and others, from what I see) remain reluctant to suggest this particular distribution: the quality of its sw, which yes is good, remains irrelevant when the support to _leave_ an environment technically inferior but already known and installed by others, is so bad. Marco -- Marco Fioretti mfioretti, at the server mclink.it Fedora Core 3 for low memory http://www.rule-project.org/ Cyberspace makes every place the same. But we're planning to put five billion people in it. [That] will freeze the entire species. Everything will stop dead in its tracks. Everyone will think the same thing at the same time. -- Michael Crichton, "The Lost World"
Windows wasn't a choice for non hackers. It was what was _already_ in the box. That's why I (and others, from what I see) remain reluctant to suggest this particular distribution: the quality of its sw, which yes is good, remains irrelevant when the support to _leave_ an environment technically inferior but already known and installed by others, is so bad. Which is precisely why a deal(s) must be made that will ship *nix
On Sunday 20 August 2006 00:12, M. Fioretti wrote: pre-installed fully functional and ready to roll... this is essentially what Apple has done... the new Macs have gone to Intel DuoCore and come preloaded with MacOS X (essentially apple-fied FreeBSD) and whalla--- the apple community is now a *nix community. Novell needs to find another vendor (I hear Lenovo will be shipping SuSE preloaded--laptops?) that will ship SuSE preloaded on desktops. Then, mom&pop can switch to *nix by just purchasing a new computer. I recommend SuSE to new users of Linux... I help them install it, and I answer their questions. You must remember that this list is *just one* venue for support in Linux... and *many* people are becoming SuSE experts... :) Linux is the *most* supported OS around the world today and SuSE is one of the best distros (in my opinion--- well, maybe not 10.1). It is high time, however, to have the distro pre-installed and ready to go... on HPs , Dells, etc. Its time. -- Kind regards, Mark H. Harris <>< harrismh777@earthlink.net
On Sunday 20 August 2006 00:12, M. Fioretti wrote:
On Sat, Aug 19, 2006 22:13:46 PM +0200, Per Jessen (per@computer.org)
wrote:
M. Fioretti wrote:
In any case, I agree with the other guy who said SUSE is not a good distribution for newbies. I too would be reluctant to recommend it, if the main online forum is messed up as it is these days. >
I don't think the quality of the available discussion/help fora should have any influence on whether the distro is suitable for newbies or not.
Right, but only in theory. Most newbies are still those who must not _choose_ between Windows and some Linux. They have Windows preinstalled and need support to _abandon_ it.
If that was the case, Windows would never have gotten off the ground.
Windows wasn't a choice for non hackers. It was what was _already_ in the box. That's why I (and others, from what I see) remain reluctant to suggest this particular distribution: the quality of its sw, which yes is good, remains irrelevant when the support to _leave_ an environment technically inferior but already known and installed by others, is so bad.
Ummm...yeah, great, good, whatever. Can this stoopid subject get shoved over to 'OT' where it belongs already. Thanks. -- "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man, hated and scorned. When the cause succeeds, however, the timid join him...for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain "Calling an illegal alien an undocumented immigrant is like calling a burglar an uninvited house guest." <www.illegalaliens.us>
On Sunday 20 August 2006 00:50, JB wrote:
Ummm...yeah, great, good, whatever. Can this stoopid subject get shoved over to 'OT' where it belongs already. Thanks. ~how rude...
-- Kind regards, Mark H. Harris <>< harrismh777@earthlink.net
On Sunday 20 August 2006 23:39, Mark H. Harris wrote:
On Sunday 20 August 2006 00:50, JB wrote:
Ummm...yeah, great, good, whatever. Can this stoopid subject get shoved over to 'OT' where it belongs already. Thanks.
~how rude...
Nope, not even close to bein' rude. Now, take it back to the friggin' OT list, please! -- "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man, hated and scorned. When the cause succeeds, however, the timid join him...for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain "Calling an illegal alien an undocumented immigrant is like calling a burglar an uninvited house guest." <www.illegalaliens.us>
On Saturday 19 August 2006 6:47 am, M. Fioretti wrote: [snip]
On a high traffic mailing list "form over content" is essential for ACTUAL EFFICIENCY. If posts are always properly titled, trimmed as much as possible, bottom posted, threads not hijacked, OT threads asked to stop immediately etc.... both learning (even from the archives) and giving help become much EASIER and FASTER. That's it, whether you like it or not.
[snip] Quite right!! I don't have time to read all the mail that comes in daily when a thread isn't easy to follow, that is someone posts at the top and fouls it all up. Mail not properly posted gets ignored......I don't have time for it. It's really a matter of common sense. Fred -- Paid purchaser of ALL SuSE Linux releases since 5.x
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon August 21 2006 19:43, Fred A. Miller wrote:
On Saturday 19 August 2006 6:47 am, M. Fioretti wrote:
[snip]
On a high traffic mailing list "form over content" is essential for ACTUAL EFFICIENCY. If posts are always properly titled, trimmed as much as possible, bottom posted, threads not hijacked, OT threads asked to stop immediately etc.... both learning (even from the archives) and giving help become much EASIER and FASTER. That's it, whether you like it or not.
[snip]
Quite right!! I don't have time to read all the mail that comes in daily when a thread isn't easy to follow, that is someone posts at the top and fouls it all up. Mail not properly posted gets ignored......I don't have time for it. It's really a matter of common sense.
Fred
Pretty much says it like it is. Those that don't understand the way the list works need to learn the patterns of socialization. This list alone generates hundreds of posts a day. Pair this with other list and email from other sources and ones inbox gets full rather quickly. Top posting is a no no, but that can be overlooked in many cases. However highjacking threads is a lot like cutting in line - not to mention that it really does hose the archives and makes it very hard for those that rely on the archives to solve problems. People that think others are being anal about this need to understand that there has been a method that has been used quite successfully for many many years. To think that new members should be allowed to change things is incorrect. The new members are the ones that need to understand and adapt to the list - not the otherway around. It can be useful resources (and in the past was very much so). Just my $0.02. Curtis. - -- Spammers Beware: Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again! "The only problem with capitalism is capitalists, they're so damn greedy!" President Herbert Hoover -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFE6nKx7CQBg4DqqCwRAsWSAKDWIixMebZ1o9fb3mEoGShcN7ezKwCffPNu aOzk8gFe1cLuh1/K04CQYNc= =fOHO -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Sat, 2006-08-19 at 11:57 +0200, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Saturday 19 August 2006 05:42, Ken Schneider wrote:
Which is why the long timers on this list ask that certain protocols be followed to help cut down on the volume.
I do wish you'd stop trying to rewrite history. Except for a very few individuals, this list has historically been free from people who place form over content. In fact, it used to be that people came to SLE to get away from the extremely fanatical people on the German list
So please stop talking about "long timers", as if they were all of one mind and all agreed with you and Shanahan, because it's just not true
Now PLEASE let this discussion, and all others like it DIE, and let's get back to technical issues
All I can say at this point is adios list. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998
On Saturday 19 August 2006 12:30, Ken Schneider wrote:
All I can say at this point is adios list.
Interesting. I was about to do the same but it would be *because* of all the discussion about etiquette; just the opposite of you.
On Friday 18 August 2006 15:15, PerfectReign wrote:
Curtis Rey wrote:
No, please DON'T post Nazis, they are liable to get crushed in the mail, are extremely expensive because of the weight involved, and are illegal in some jurisdictions. In any case, they make poor pets and are not popular gifts for many recipients. Many of these unwanted gift-Nazis end up in rescue shelters and have to be put down. Just don't do it - send a book token or a soothing music CD instead.
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On Thu August 17 2006 20:14, PerfectReign wrote:
Curtis Rey wrote: <snip>
So, please take this into consideration when you need to post to
get
answers (it also - highjacking - tends to get your question ignored, at
least
by many of the true guru's on the list).
HTH and Cheers. Curtis.
...hook, line and sinker...
And I wager you'll do quite well on the list - and get a lot of help with any issues you my have. But as long as your enjoying yourself I guess that's all that matters... Right?
Well, I figure since this list had degenerated over the past six months into little more than etiquette Nazis posting inflammatory remarks about any minor violation, I'm not losing much. Most of my questions on this list have gone unanswered - why should this one be any different?
I've found recently I'm getting better help using other avenues. The people on this list for the most part are knowledgeable, but it is very frustrating trying to sift through the mountains of dogma being posted here about what one should and should not post. It is obvious that the Gestapo has taken over.
Long derisive posts about etiquette have no business here or in any forum, except in a FAQ. If you want to point someone to a FAQ, feel free. It would also be much more acceptable if you answer the question being posed, then politely point to the FAQ.
I'm a relative newbie to forum posting, having only started in the late '80s, but I've seen enough good mailing lists and sites to know when a post is warranted or not. Your previous post was completely off the mark and not needed. I was obviously making a reference to the pathetic nature of those here who choose to dictate manners rather than simply help. I half expected someone to post an answer such as you did, and am glad I got the chance to write this. If you - or others on this list don't feel that you should act as adults and answer questions, then fine. I'll continue to do my best to promote Linux and SUSE by providing informative answers to questions.
-- Kai Ponte www.perfectreign.com
Kein Zeitungsknabe wird uns jemals befehlen, was grad alt oder brandneu ist. Damit würd' er höchstens soviel erzielen, wie ein Hund, der gegen Bäume pisst...
-- Fergus Wilde Chetham's Library Long Millgate Manchester M3 1SB Tel: 0161 834 7961 Fax: 0161 839 5797 http://www.chethams.org.uk
Fergus Wilde wrote:
On Friday 18 August 2006 15:15, PerfectReign wrote:
Curtis Rey wrote:
No, please DON'T post Nazis, they are liable to get crushed in the mail, are extremely expensive because of the weight involved, and are illegal in some jurisdictions.
In any case, they make poor pets and are not popular gifts for many recipients. Many of these unwanted gift-Nazis end up in rescue shelters and have to be put down. Just don't do it - send a book token or a soothing music CD instead.
Im sure they make great stress relievers - the possibilities are endless. For example just think how much fun you could have with one of those and a big hammer. And if you educate them sufficiently they might be able to execute basic manual jobs such as cleaning your toilet or biting the neighbors ;) -- Benjamin Belau Support | IVV5 | Math | uni-muenster.de Tel.: (0251) 83-33754 http://wwwmath.uni-muenster.de/IVV
participants (18)
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Anders Johansson -
Benjamin Belau -
Bruce Marshall -
Bryan S. Tyson -
Carlos E. R. -
Curtis Rey -
Darryl Gregorash -
Fergus Wilde -
Fred A. Miller -
JB -
jdow -
Jerry Westrick -
Ken Schneider -
lostson -
M. Fioretti -
Mark H. Harris -
Per Jessen -
PerfectReign