Dear List, The confusion that surrounds the topic of "How Best to make my SuSE X.X use KDE 3.1 stable is making my brain hurt. I thought YOU was for general updates to SuSE 8.x and that it would become the SuSE preferred tool for all distribution s/w maintance and upgrading. I have followed the APT vs YOU threads on this list with some interest, but I felt secure in the knowledge that YOU was the SuSE answer to more sophisticated sys maintance. Now observing the activety on this list I have seen several ways of taking a SuSE sys to KDE 3.1 stable; I have also seen a number of people report that 'meathod X causes Y problem" and a slightly smaller number of replies that say "Do what I did to fix that". I felt secure in the knowledge that those of us who had the patience to wait would find a YOU, SuSE 'blessed', KDE 3.1 stable entry; and that the Official SuSE YOU pkg would have minimized the errors and pitfalls of the update process. Now we have been told that the only way to get a 'blessed' KDE 3.1 is to wait for the next release of SuSE, rel 8.2 . SuSE is saying that YOU is only for patchlevel updates (bug fixes only, no new feature or internal reorganisations.. So in light of this news I think it is time to look at APT again. My impression of APT is that it is a tool of greater depth and ability. What is the SuSE stand on APT? Do the APT repositories contaim official packages,(blessed by SuSE)? How does APT achieve the level of package integration that we expected from YOU? Does SuSE offer a SuSE APT? When SuSE issues bugfixes or security fixes via YOU will YOU 'know' about APT installed or updated apps? Will YAST2 'install or remove' app know about and handle APT installed stuff? Thanks! ..................... PeterB -- -- Proud to be a SuSE Linux User since 5.2 --
On Thursday 30 January 2003 1:50 pm, Peter B Van Campen wrote:
Dear List,
The confusion that surrounds the topic of "How Best to make my SuSE X.X use KDE 3.1 stable is making my brain hurt.
< mighty snip>
So in light of this news I think it is time to look at APT again. My impression of APT is that it is a tool of greater depth and ability.
ability? Hmmm, there is a far wider variety of packages available, but there are also a few people who have ruined their system using apt, or apt ruined their system.
What is the SuSE stand on APT? Do the APT repositories contaim official packages,(blessed by SuSE)?
I believe they get the packages from the SuSE servers, check them, play with them and then post them on their servers. Richard Bos had a post about this yesterday. Thread was " kde3.1 apt-getable?", although that didn't go as far in depth as I remembered.
How does APT achieve the level of package integration that we expected from YOU? Does SuSE offer a SuSE APT?
Do you mean an apt app build by SuSE? If so no, but there is apt for SuSE http://linux01.gwdg.de/apt4rpm/.
When SuSE issues bugfixes or security fixes via YOU will YOU 'know' about APT installed or updated apps? Will YAST2 'install or remove' app know about and handle APT installed stuff?
They both use the same database to keep track of installed rpms. Yast can uninstall apt stuff, and sometimes it tries to, because of dependency issues and what yast thinks should be on your system.
Thanks! ..................... PeterB
Hope that helps, and was correct. I use apt, in fact i just upgraded to 3.1 with apt, without many problems.. My only advice is don't use the upgrade feature, there seems to be an increased chance of chaos when using that feature. Also be wary if a large amount of packages are being removed, especially if you don't know what they do. -- Franklin Maurer nebbish@sprynet.com SuSE 8.1
Wow Peter, that are many questions. Op donderdag 30 januari 2003 19:50, schreef Peter B Van Campen:
So in light of this news I think it is time to look at APT again. My impression of APT is that it is a tool of greater depth and ability.
Nice.
What is the SuSE stand on APT?
Suse's official stand is focussed on yast/you. Actually suse had the oppertunity to introduce apt last year, but at that moment suse came up with YPM (yast package manager). The reason that apt won't be used/supported by suse might be due to its flexibility. With ypm suse is better able to control what the user may do. Which is good if the user is just an average user, but it may feel like a jail if one wants to do more with its system. Another reason is probably better internationalization suppport by ypm, which is of course very important. One more reason is that suse wants to support 1 online update tool only. (hmm by using oss (being apt), there might be less support effort needed). APT is used by 2 of suse's united linux partners: conectiva and sco. Actually conectiva maintains apt-rpm. Further more apt is used by some other rpms based distro's. I've once be told that ypm/yast may have a plugin possibility. Perhaps this is true and one can provide an apt plugin for ypm, who knows?
Do the APT repositories contain official packages,(blessed by SuSE)? Yes, it does (the apt components base, update, security, kde, kde3-stable, some more, are just providing the SuSE rpms nothing more nothing less (just follow the links I would say). There are however other components that provide other stuff. Some are easy to recognize by their prefix "suser" = suse users, others are more difficult to recognize: "extra", "packman*", "funktronics", "usr-local-bin", "suse-people", etc.
How does APT achieve the level of package integration that we expected from YOU? The idea is: an rpm keeps all information about itself, e.g. which rpms it requires and provides. APT builds at the server databases with this information, containing rpm (text) info, files (libraries) info, dependency info, etc. The databases are than retrieved by the (client) user. The apt client is now able to overlook _all_ available information about the rpms. And the client uses that info to determine which packages to install or to remove. A nice thing of apt is that the apt repositories may be distributed over many servers, starting with your local system, via an intranet to the servers that can be reached via the internet. There are some tools out there (eg apt4rpm) that assist you in creating an apt repository. One major goal of apt is to keep the dependency relations among the installed rpms consistent. So if you tell apt to remove qt3 it will do so, including all packages that depend on it (being all kde and yast packages).
Does SuSE offer a SuSE APT? You mean an apt repository? No. SuSE provides the rpms, that are turned into an apt repository.
When SuSE issues bugfixes or security fixes via YOU will YOU 'know' about APT installed or updated apps? Will YAST2 'install or remove' app know about and handle APT installed stuff?
YOU and apt are both using the rpm database to store which packages have been installed. So, the answer is basically yes. However, it seems that you/ypm holds it own internal db as well, therefor ypm tells/advises you sometimes to remove/re-install rpms. The latter may be rpms that have been installed via apt, gnorpm, kpackage, just rpm on the command line.... Long story, I hope it provides all the info you're looking for. If not post the questions after reading: http://linux01.gwdg.de/apt4rpm -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless
Hiya all! I've got a problem I need help with. My set-up is a SmoothWall firewall, a NetWare 6 server on the "internal network", a SuSE 8.1 Pro server on the DMZ net. Now I really, REALLY need to make use of the NetWare servers ability for Native *nix file access (NFS & NIS) to mount some of its exported volumes on the SuSE box on the DMZ. Of course the SmoothWall blocks ANYTHING that tries to make a connection from the DMZ to the internal net, why have a FW otherwise? Anyway, in the "good old days" when licensies for NetWare was cheap, I could've used ncpfs (that always connects to the NetWare via TCP port 524 and then open that specific port in the SmoothWall) to mount volumes, but that eats client connections on the NetWare server that I can't afford to loose. So the solution is NFS... But as of what I can see in NFS documentation for SuSE, there is no specific port used for NFS/NIS, it instead asks portmapper for a connection to use. I'm not at all familiar with portmapper, so here's my problem... Can I *make* NFS/NIS to use a specific port (range of ports) to connect to the NetWare server? If I can, how do I accomplish that? If it's possible, then I can simply open up that (or those) ports in the firewall and keep the rest locked up. Thank you for helping! Anders Norrbring Norrbring Consulting
* Anders Norrbring; <anders@norrbring.biz> on 31 Jan, 2003 wrote:
Of course the SmoothWall blocks ANYTHING that tries to make a connection from the DMZ to the internal net, why have a FW otherwise? Anyway, in the "good old days" when licensies for NetWare was cheap, I could've used ncpfs (that always connects to the NetWare via TCP port 524 and then open that specific port in the SmoothWall) to mount volumes, but that eats client connections on the NetWare server that I can't afford to loose. So the solution is NFS...
But as of what I can see in NFS documentation for SuSE, there is no specific port used for NFS/NIS, it instead asks portmapper for a connection to use. I'm not at all familiar with portmapper, so here's my problem...
TCP="111" UDP="111 1028 2049" NFS uses ports 111, 1028, and 2049 so you need to let these ports in smoothwall But on the other hand DMZ is the place you have your potential victim to be sacrificed by a cracker so if I were you I would not let any NFS/NIS on the DMZ machine see if you can change your network layout -- Togan Muftuoglu Unofficial SuSE FAQ Maintainer http://dinamizm.ath.cx
Using APT would be a half-measure, unless you have a consistent regularly-updated package repository. A good example of such is ALT-linux's sysiphus. A perfect example is debian branches. On Thursday 30 January 2003 21:50, Peter B Van Campen wrote:
Dear List,
The confusion that surrounds the topic of "How Best to make my SuSE X.X use KDE 3.1 stable is making my brain hurt.
I thought YOU was for general updates to SuSE 8.x and that it would become the SuSE preferred tool for all distribution s/w maintance and upgrading. I have followed the APT vs YOU threads on this list with some interest, but I felt secure in the knowledge that YOU was the SuSE answer to more sophisticated sys maintance.
Now observing the activety on this list I have seen several ways of taking a SuSE sys to KDE 3.1 stable; I have also seen a number of people report that 'meathod X causes Y problem" and a slightly smaller number of replies that say "Do what I did to fix that". I felt secure in the knowledge that those of us who had the patience to wait would find a YOU, SuSE 'blessed', KDE 3.1 stable entry; and that the Official SuSE YOU pkg would have minimized the errors and pitfalls of the update process.
Now we have been told that the only way to get a 'blessed' KDE 3.1 is to wait for the next release of SuSE, rel 8.2 . SuSE is saying that YOU is only for patchlevel updates (bug fixes only, no new feature or internal reorganisations..
So in light of this news I think it is time to look at APT again. My impression of APT is that it is a tool of greater depth and ability. What is the SuSE stand on APT? Do the APT repositories contaim official packages,(blessed by SuSE)? How does APT achieve the level of package integration that we expected from YOU? Does SuSE offer a SuSE APT? When SuSE issues bugfixes or security fixes via YOU will YOU 'know' about APT installed or updated apps? Will YAST2 'install or remove' app know about and handle APT installed stuff?
Thanks! ..................... PeterB
-- --
Proud to be a SuSE Linux User since 5.2
--
Op dinsdag 4 februari 2003 14:16, schreef Vitaly Shishakov:
Using APT would be a half-measure, unless you have a consistent regularly-updated package repository. A good example of such is ALT-linux's sysiphus. A perfect example is debian branches.
Dobre den Vitaly, what do you actually mean with 'regularly-updated'? Do you mean pkgs must be moved from unstable -> tested -> stable, or pkgs must just be updated? The latter case is true is for the SuSE apt repository, as you can see at: http://linux01.gwdg.de/apt4rpm/freshrpms.html. For your information the mpg123 rpm has been added in the last 6 hours. The repository is updated every 4 times a day. -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless
participants (6)
-
Anders Norrbring -
Franklin Maurer -
Peter B Van Campen -
Richard Bos -
Togan Muftuoglu -
Vitaly Shishakov