-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2005-06-03 at 13:36 +0200, Anders Johansson wrote:

Some little child who has just discovered how to fake email addresses, and things a) he's really cool, and b) he can't be traced.

He's wrong on both counts

He is an engineer (!). But yes, we have traced him, of course. But remember that the suse server removes the received headers, making it harder to trace.

...

The list administrator does not answer us. Novell (contacted directly) is doing nothing. SuSE does nothing. Who can do something?

The list admin should. Who did you contact?

{list}-owner, as always. But others jumped over him, and went to contacts higer up in Novell directly. We are in dire straits, the list is becomming useless. We had 50 emails this night of this person alone, insulting and suplanting people,

...

We need a list with login/password. Or a news forum, as Novell implements in parallel to lists (support-forums.novell.com), but with autentification procedure. Whatever.

gpg signatures?

Yes, for those who can (like me). The problem is enforcing them, and rejecting non signed emails at the server level... - -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFCoF5+tTMYHG2NR9URAgEwAJ0YyHVgtwcnvbXRSMXvhb57tHqAGgCfVgQq tN3PwVZeT2RqHNAqPI5A604= =RZ0z -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

The Friday 2005-06-03 at 10:28 -0400, James Knott wrote:

...

He is an engineer (!). But yes, we have traced him, of course. But remember that the suse server removes the received headers, making it harder to trace.

If you know who he is, why not contact his ISP?

Because the owner of the domain where the relay sits, is he himself. -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2005-06-03 at 09:03 -0500, Andreas Philipp wrote:

Not at all. A grown-up man, well-known in Spain, with a University career and PHD. But he is mentally ill. It's as easy as that. And after weeks of trying to make Novell react, we are fed up! Carlos is understating - it's not just insults, it's insults of the possibly worst kind, racism, sexism, whatever.

Correct. Our Spanish language is probably very rich in strong insults of a kind probably unheard of in English, so I did not elaborate ;-) But more demeaning can be the usurpation of identity, and insult other people in our name, and confusing people. - -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFCoGc3tTMYHG2NR9URAhOTAJ4qGtIO5qIAw9yGvti4FXfTmDsheACfbBve M9ZJcU65cUVc2Zh4Iklqch4= =bTmi -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Hi Peter, I completely agree with Carlos, spanish is very rich in insults ... I've heard about Australians, looks like they have a similar repository ... ;-) But, this situation (Insulting emails) are flooding the list, taking care of this situation would be a nice addition, for us, the 'common users' of the list ... we just want to share our experiences with SuSE and use it as personal, business or educational platform. Jean H// -----Mensaje original----- De: Peter B Van Campen [mailto:peterb@vancampen.org] Enviado el: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:25 AM Para: suse-linux-e@suse.com Asunto: Re: [SLE] Identity usurpation in suse lists On Friday 03 June 2005 09:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:

The Friday 2005-06-03 at 09:03 -0500, Andreas Philipp wrote:

...

Not at all. A grown-up man, well-known in Spain, with a University career and PHD. But he is mentally ill. It's as easy as that. And after weeks of

Correct. Our Spanish language is probably very rich in strong insults of a kind probably unheard of in English, so I did not elaborate ;-)

Hi Carlos, You are starting to approach "bragging", you know. :o) PeterB p.s. Hollywood is always looking for newer and more powerful insults -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.5.2 - Release Date: 6/3/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.5.2 - Release Date: 6/3/2005

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2005-06-06 at 01:05 +1000, Colin Carter wrote:

...

Hi Peter, I completely agree with Carlos, spanish is very rich in insults ... I've heard about Australians, looks like they have a similar repository ... ;-) Hah, doncha believe it. Australians only ever insult their mates: i.e. if a REAL Aussie insults you

On Saturday 04 June 2005 01:53, Jean Hendrickx wrote: then he considers you a mate. If he ignores you, you are in trouble. :-) Regards, Colin

X-) We can do both ;-) Both the tone and other clues marks the difference. In writing... ough. - -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFCo56ctTMYHG2NR9URAveSAJ4zu3ls3vbvTmHCl0qfNcjse3/HqwCgg2O5 /wwgSKYqTCQyD6iM4+QPy5o= =7Qpk -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

We, at the very least, give Carlos and through him the spanish list our sympathy. Hopefully Andreas can help. from one Australian scsijon At 12:20 AM 4/06/2005, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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The Friday 2005-06-03 at 09:03 -0500, Andreas Philipp wrote:

...

Not at all. A grown-up man, well-known in Spain, with a University career and PHD. But he is mentally ill. It's as easy as that. And after weeks of trying to make Novell react, we are fed up! Carlos is understating - it's not just insults, it's insults of the possibly worst kind, racism, sexism, whatever.

Correct. Our Spanish language is probably very rich in strong insults of a kind probably unheard of in English, so I did not elaborate ;-)

But more demeaning can be the usurpation of identity, and insult other people in our name, and confusing people.

- -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson

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The Sunday 2005-06-05 at 19:46 +1000, scsijon wrote:

...

We, at the very least, give Carlos and through him the spanish list our sympathy.

Thanks.

...

Hopefully Andreas can help. If he is well known then please post his work address on this list so that we can all write a physical letter (you know, on the old stuff made from

On Sunday 05 June 2005 21:39, Carlos E. R. wrote: trees) and we can all bombard his boss and embarrass him. IF he really is ill then somebody at his work ought to see that he gets help, otherwise he will just pull embarrassment onto their office. IF he is "intelligent", as some would like to believe, then he must be reading this and realise that his social intelligence level is very low. Poor thing! Regards, Colin

I hope so, but it is already too late.

Yesterday two people left the list. Today another one, informing that he quited SuSE for another distro as well. This issue is costing SuSE Novell clients.

This is very serious. :-|

Can you imagine what may think a new user referred to the list for help directly from customer help desk? You know that when a client requests the "Free Installation Support" from SuSE, often they have to tell him(she) that it is not covered because (whatever), but they are referred instead to the list, for whatever help we may give. As they are Spanish speaking people (and we are a lot) they go to suse-linux-s... to found that the list has more than 50 insulting emails per 5..10 real ones, per day.

It is not only insults, but this person posing as any known user (me, for instance, but he prefers southamericans) insulting any other user. Old users know what it is about, new ones do not.

What do you think they think of SuSE?

What do you think this may cost in marketing terms, to the "good name" of Novell/SuSE? In clients shunning SuSE altogether?

So far the only contact we have in the list from Novell Spain has been understanding, and tried to be helpful; but they got no response from higher up yet.

Thus, we need SuSE/Novell acting fast. We need insulting emails be removed from the archives, for starters. We need some method of authentication for each mail sent to the list, before it is distributed - nothing less!

Just think what would SuSE Novell think if someone faked emails in the name of SuSE, insulting clients. Would they care then?

-- Cheers, Carlos Robinson

Colin: El Dom 05 Jun 2005 10:23, Colin Carter escribió:

If he is well known then please post his work address on this list so that we can all write a physical letter (you know, on the old stuff made from trees) and we can all bombard his boss and embarrass him. IF he really is ill then somebody at his work ought to see that he gets help, otherwise he will just pull embarrassment onto their office. IF he is "intelligent", as some would like to believe, then he must be reading this and realise that his social intelligence level is very low.

With all due respect, but your words give ample evidence that you have no experience with mentally ill people at all. This is not the place to discuss mental conditions, but I would like to be clear about one point. Rather than to embarrass a mentally ill man - if he really can be embarrassed - or to lock him away, I would prefer the list owners to take up their administrative responsibilities with due diligence. Who really should feel embarrassed is Novell/SuSE's list amdinistrator. -- Andreas Philipp Noema Ltda. Bogotá, D.C. - Colombia http://www.noemasol.com

Hi Kevan: El Dom 05 Jun 2005 12:03, Kevanf1 escribió:

Please forgive and correct me if I am wrong but as far as I am aware Tourette's sysndrome is a vocal one. It is a disorder whereby a sufferer is forced against their better judgement to shout obscenities and profanities.

Coprolalia ocurrs only in a minority of people with Tourette's, maybe in one of four, and is not the syndrome's principal symptom.

It does not compel the sufferer to write these utterances either by hand or electronically.

Well, copropraxia or coprographia are phenomena associated with coprolalia and are certainly even more rarely seen. There may sometimes also be some general behavioral (sexual, verbal) disinhibition associated with Tourette's, but what exactly is the case with the guy from the Spanish list I obviously cannot know.

For the record, I have suffered from a mental illness (not Tourette's) in the past and do know just how it can take over one's life.

I am sorry to hear that. I felt compelled to respond to Colins message, because it implied that by causing embarrassment or offering insight into the social misconduct, the mentally ill person could or should be properly motivated to change her behaviour. If this were so, the person's misconduct weren't caused by mental illness at all, but the consequence of some premeditated scheme. If we take for granted that the person on the Spanish list positivley HAS mental problems, then causing embarrassment or offering insight will not stop him from doing what is the undoing of the list. For that, we need the help of a competent administrator, which has been my argument all along. Have a nice Sunday evening! -- Andreas Philipp Noema Ltda. Bogotá, D.C. - Colombia http://www.noemasol.com

On Sun, Jun 05, 2005 at 07:07:57PM +0100, Kevanf1 wrote:

On 05/06/05, Andreas Philipp wrote:

...

Hi Kevan:

El Dom 05 Jun 2005 12:03, Kevanf1 escribió:

...

Please forgive and correct me if I am wrong but as far as I am aware Tourette's sysndrome is a vocal one. It is a disorder whereby a sufferer is forced against their better judgement to shout obscenities and profanities.

Coprolalia ocurrs only in a minority of people with Tourette's, maybe in one of four, and is not the syndrome's principal symptom.

...

It does not compel the sufferer to write these utterances either by hand or electronically.

Well, copropraxia or coprographia are phenomena associated with coprolalia and are certainly even more rarely seen. There may sometimes also be some general behavioral (sexual, verbal) disinhibition associated with Tourette's, but what exactly is the case with the guy from the Spanish list I obviously cannot know.

...

For the record, I have suffered from a mental illness (not Tourette's) in the past and do know just how it can take over one's life.

I am sorry to hear that. I felt compelled to respond to Colins message, because it implied that by causing embarrassment or offering insight into the social misconduct, the mentally ill person could or should be properly motivated to change her behaviour. If this were so, the person's misconduct weren't caused by mental illness at all, but the consequence of some premeditated scheme. If we take for granted that the person on the Spanish list positivley HAS mental problems, then causing embarrassment or offering insight will not stop him from doing what is the undoing of the list. For that, we need the help of a competent administrator, which has been my argument all along.

Have a nice Sunday evening! -- Andreas Philipp Noema Ltda. Bogotá, D.C. - Colombia http://www.noemasol.com

Hi Andreas. Thanks for the enlightenment. Agreed, this is something that the admins really need to act upon.

As for the Sunday evening :-) I will, you too :-)

We have a Tornado watch =( I was stressed out and sore and my Tourrette's was acting up, so now I took 3 Lortab 7.5 Pain killers, which would be like a drop of Morphine, and I've got Lords of Acid going on my CD on my laptop. I'm good now.

-- Take care. Kevan Farmer

34 Hill Street Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR

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On Sun, Jun 05, 2005 at 11:21:28AM -0500, Andreas Philipp wrote:

Colin:

El Dom 05 Jun 2005 10:23, Colin Carter escribió:

...

If he is well known then please post his work address on this list so that we can all write a physical letter (you know, on the old stuff made from trees) and we can all bombard his boss and embarrass him. IF he really is ill then somebody at his work ought to see that he gets help, otherwise he will just pull embarrassment onto their office. IF he is "intelligent", as some would like to believe, then he must be reading this and realise that his social intelligence level is very low.

With all due respect, but your words give ample evidence that you have no experience with mentally ill people at all. This is not the place to discuss mental conditions, but I would like to be clear about one point. Rather than to embarrass a mentally ill man - if he really can be embarrassed - or to lock him away, I would prefer the list owners to take up their administrative responsibilities with due diligence. Who really should feel embarrassed is Novell/SuSE's list amdinistrator.

Umm, he's not that, he has Tourrette's. BIG difference. You know what it really is? It's ADD on steroids. That's it. Don't treat him like he doesn't know the difference between right and wrong. If he really has it he is indeed probably intelligent, and swearing is very common. Those are tics. A lot of us have Motor ones as well. Other people who have it: Kurt Cobain from Nirvana Me Trent Reznor shows symptoms... A lot of people on TV have it and the guys from Tool and even a lot of people on TV. The next time you're watching TV, watch closer. Count the number of times the person on TV blinks, see if they make strange noises, watch how they move. Do they seem to be offensive for no reason at all? Well there you go, that's what it is on the outside. Do they have high IQs? The lowest IQ I've actually seen on somneone with this, is 139. My IQ is 146, I'm above genius. Almost everyone who has it is. Now again if he really does have this, read up. If not he's an asshole. It's just bothering me on this list to watch people act like he's someone who needs to be in a hospital. The only time someone with what I have is in an institution is when whoever it is works there. --

Andreas Philipp Noema Ltda. Bogotá, D.C. - Colombia http://www.noemasol.com

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On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 01:36:36PM +0200, Anders Johansson wrote:

On Friday 03 June 2005 13:01, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Hi,

We have a big problem in the Spanish SuSE list.

There is a poster, probably certified mad (Tourette syndrome), that has taken to insult people as he pleases. But the worst is that he is emailing

I have that, you don't see me doing that even though I get reamed for my potty mouth. There is a HUGE difference between what you're talking about

...

with the from address replaced by any other person of the list (me, for example), confusing the innocent people that are not aware of this. I'm talking about 50 messages of this kind per day, more than the normal traffic.

Some little child who has just discovered how to fake email addresses, and things a) he's really cool, and b) he can't be traced.

He's wrong on both counts

...

The list administrator does not answer us. Novell (contacted directly) is doing nothing. SuSE does nothing. Who can do something?

The list admin should. Who did you contact?

...

We need a list with login/password. Or a news forum, as Novell implements in parallel to lists (support-forums.novell.com), but with autentification procedure. Whatever.

gpg signatures?

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On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 12:47:04AM +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

The Friday 2005-06-03 at 15:22 -0400, Allen wrote:

...

...

...

There is a poster, probably certified mad (Tourette syndrome), that has taken to insult people as he pleases. But the worst is that he is emailing

I have that, you don't see me doing that even though I get reamed for my potty mouth. There is a HUGE difference between what you're talking about

I'm sorry, he said that himself time ago (that he had that syndrome), once he was asking for excuses. I'm not a doctor, so I don't know. There are references on the web about him having overcome his illness, and get to be an engineer. He has written books.

You don't have to overcome it to become anything. One side effect of that is a very high IQ and problem solving abilities.

If you are correct, then his insults in writting do not have anything to do with that syndrome? Then he does it on purpose. It is even worse.

This is going to sound odd, because you yourself don't have this, but he may "have" to do that.

For us it is very difficult to understand what he does. Sometimes he is reasonable enough, then takes to talk politics, or anti-linux, or... whatever, and it is impossible to reason with him. Some of us have tried to convince him that we are not interested in politics, that we will not listen to hime (read/write, that is) if he uses foul language... useless.

Swearing is fairly common, I doubt he means to do that on purpose.

And now he is supplanting people, so that listers get confused and think that they are being insulted by somebody else, when it is the same person always. He even poses as two or three diferent persons insulting one another.

Heh, this is called boredom. He should start trying Opiates. that would take away a lot of the swearing, and probably stop him from seeming bothersome. The meds people are given for it are dangerouse, yet Opium seems to calm some of it, or make toher parts of it worse, it depends. I'm on Vicodin and Tylenol #3 right now, it stops a lot of my problems caused form it and allows me to actually concentrate.

It is this supplanting that is really "irking".

A bored genius is a dangerous thing.

Today he has posted over 50 messages... and I'm afraid that much more will come this weekend.

Tell him to find some type of Opiates, he's already able to do things security related it sounds like, if he starts using those he could probably find new security flaws and his 50 mails would be telling people to fix them.

- -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson

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Carl: El Vie 03 Jun 2005 21:29, Carl William Spitzer IV escribió:

Collrct the offending messages for a day in a separate folder. In View goto Messages / Show headders. Study for the common source.

We already know for sure that it's one person who is playing the pranks on the other list users. And, what is more, his identity is reasonably well established. Even his mental illness is fully documented on the public web. We all can filter his messages, but this is not really an acceptable solution for one flooding us with more than 50 grotesque messages in 24 hours, or mail-bombing the list with about 20 messages in question of some minutes. He now is into neat little role-playing tricks. Uses the identity of one random list user to post a provocative or insulting message, than assumes the identity of another to reply with more badmouthing. He sure has the newbies confused ... I really do hope Andreas Jaeger can be of help to get that straightened out, because other than that, SuSE/Novell has not been particularly forthcoming. -- Andreas Philipp Noema Ltda. Bogotá, D.C. - Colombia http://www.noemasol.com