OOn Fri, 2 Jan 2004 09:22 Janus Sandsgaard wrote:

On Friday 02 January 2004 04:51, Russ wrote:

...

Can anyone tell me how to get started with wine. I do have a Win98se partition.

You do not need a separate partition for runnin Wine. Wine is for running Windows-apps without Windows. A seperate partition is for dual-boot with Linux and Win.

I do not fully agree. If Windows is present, wine uses it for copying stuff such as dlls. It is not impossible to run wine without Windows, but a few apps that used to work with my dual boot system, do not work with my Linux-only system any more. BTW, I wonder if someone has gotten *anything* to work with the newer versions of wine, installing itself in ~/c by default instead of ~/.wine/fake_windows? (Using SuSE 8.2.) To return to the original poster's question: install wine from the CDs and read /usr/share/doc/packages/wine/README. SH

I've gotten Trillian, Forte Agent 1.93, and ACDSee v2.something to work without any trouble. Josh On Sat, 2004-01-03 at 22:23, Fred Miller wrote:

On Friday 02 January 2004 5:08 am, Sjoerd Hiemstra wrote:

[snip]

...

BTW, I wonder if someone has gotten *anything* to work with the newer versions of wine, installing itself in ~/c by default instead of ~/.wine/fake_windows? (Using SuSE 8.2.)

Well, I REFUSE to give any hard drive space to MickySoft, nor will I give them immoral hairballs any of my money, but I did try to install the latest TurBoTax - NADA. It won't install.

Fred

-- "...Linux, MS-DOS, and Windows XP (also known as the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly)."

Fred I have a cure e-mail me off the list On Sun, 2004-01-04 at 12:57, Fred Miller wrote:

On Saturday 03 January 2004 11:58 pm, Josh Poage wrote:

...

I've gotten Trillian, Forte Agent 1.93, and ACDSee v2.something to work without any trouble.

Yes - I know some software will install, but important software like TurBoTax won't. This is a real problem for Linux to take over the desktop, because to date NO company has ported tax packages, and none can be loaded with Wine. Tax prep. software MUST be available for Linux or Linux will be limited on the desktop.

Fred

-- "...Linux, MS-DOS, and Windows XP (also known as the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly)."

-- Hans hans007@prexar.com registered Linux user 289023 "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

On Sunday 04 January 2004 12:28 pm, Hans Krueger wrote:

Fred I have a cure e-mail me off the list

On Sun, 2004-01-04 at 12:57, Fred Miller wrote:

...

On Saturday 03 January 2004 11:58 pm, Josh Poage wrote:

...

I've gotten Trillian, Forte Agent 1.93, and ACDSee v2.something to work without any trouble.

Yes - I know some software will install, but important software like TurBoTax won't. This is a real problem for Linux to take over the desktop, because to date NO company has ported tax packages, and none can be loaded with Wine. Tax prep. software MUST be available for Linux or Linux will be limited on the desktop.

Fred

-- "...Linux, MS-DOS, and Windows XP (also known as the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly)."

-- Hans hans007@prexar.com

Whoa there son. Share with the list - if you can. Tax time for Linux users in the USA is one time we need help finding non-Miscrosoft solutions. Thanks, Stan

Doug McGarrett [04 Jan 2004 19:27:40 -0500]:

Perhaps someone in big Linux (SuSE?) could give them a call and ask them to compile the program in Linux? It is bound to be written in C++, everything is nowadays.

Believe me, being written in C++ says *nothing* about the portability of a program. It's bound to be using MFC and a lot of Windows facilities and thus can't simply be recompiled on Linux. If that would be possible we'd probably see a lot more Windows programs on Linux. Granted, there are things like Mainwin, but then you'd still have a Win* program with the look and feel of a Windows program *plus* the royalties you have to pay for Mainwin. Philipp PS. Your quoting looks horribly

David Herman wrote:

On Sunday 04 January 2004 04:27 pm, Doug McGarrett wrote: ------------snip----------------

...

TurboTax is about the only tax program that anyone will use. Others just give you gas.

At the risk of leading this thread wildly off topic I'll chime in and make it more off topic.....

I chose to try taxact last year after learning of Intuits invasive spyware move (I had used Intuit software the previous 4 years and been reasonably happy w/ them). I was completely satisfied that my needs were met by taxact software. Unfortunately it is also winders based, but as a smaller company they may be more easily swayed to the linux camp. The Intuit stuff rocks in terms of products like Quicken etc. It is a pity they have not embraced the open source community. Maybe Novell will lead some weight to it with its next Novell GUI running linux?

Even w/ intuits grovelling I won't go back until taxact or some other software fails to meet my needs. I have to strengthen your opinion here as I felt strongly about losing my financial software in favour of linux, as GnuCash and MyMoney don't measure up to Quicken's standards. I have totally abandoned linux in favour of being able to do my finances a few times. 'Luckily' linux won, and here I sit with over 2 months of financial records to one day input into Quicken.

What I give up for linux! :)

That said I will continue to look for and try linux based tax software but until it becomes available I'll stick w/ companies that don't install spyware w/ their product. Do let the list know if you find a Quicken like port plse.

-- ======================================================================== Hylton Conacher - Licenced ex-Windows user (apart from Quicken) Registered Linux user # 229959 at http://counter.li.org Using SuSE 9.0 with KDE 3.1 ========================================================================

I used TaxACT last year under vmware and it's free for Standard Edition e-mail them to ask for a linux version I did http://www.taxact.com/tsupport/support_csrequest2.asp On Sun, 2004-01-04 at 22:36, Chuck Stuettgen wrote:

On Sun, 2004-01-04 at 12:28, Hans Krueger wrote:

...

Fred I have a cure e-mail me off the list

On Sun, 2004-01-04 at 12:57, Fred Miller wrote:

...

On Saturday 03 January 2004 11:58 pm, Josh Poage wrote:

...

I've gotten Trillian, Forte Agent 1.93, and ACDSee v2.something to work without any trouble.

Yes - I know some software will install, but important software like TurBoTax won't. This is a real problem for Linux to take over the desktop, because to date NO company has ported tax packages, and none can be loaded with Wine. Tax prep. software MUST be available for Linux or Linux will be limited on the desktop.

How about posting to the list? I'd like to know how to get Taxcut to run with wine or Crossover Office as well.

-- Hans hans007@prexar.com registered Linux user 289023 "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 20:51:44 -0500 "Paul W. Abrahams" wrote:

TurboTax is a particularly critical case because there will never be a Gnu version of it. No individual or group in the Gnu community would ever commit to updating the program annually in a major way to account for changes in the tax laws. Now if someone would bribe Intuit to come out with a Linux version ... I think as Linux grows in popularity, more vendors will port to Linux.

- -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/+MWW+wA+1cUGHqkRAgnxAJ48v3vC6IArd+pqwmR0b9YXnfxPKQCeNsnl T2jVT7V46SSfMYsiYpQgE/s= =8Oos -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

It would sure be good if there were an interoperable set of API functions that was so enticing to software developers that they'd use it even without the incentive of a Linux port. Then the Linux port would essentially be a freebie for them. Unfortunately this is not so either. The problem is not so much the difficulty of the port. Developers can use WINE libraries. When Digital came out with the Alpha chip, Windows NT was available for it. They had an emulatopr product called fx32 that allowed nearly all Intel based applications to run on it. (FX32 was both an emulator and a

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 21:20:04 -0500 "Paul W. Abrahams" wrote: translator). Linux was also ported to the Alpha chip in 1994. What Digital learned back then was that it actually caused developers not to port to the Alpha. Additionally, developers did not support their applications on the Alpha, and it is the support costs that are one of the main issues. There are several problems that prevent Linux from getting wide-spread use on the desktop. (I'm sure that the SuSE marketing folks are aware of all of them). Linux (and FreeBSD) are part of the Open Source community. Developers are concerned that their proprietary products will be compromised if they port to Linux. Another is that Linux is intimidating. First, new end users don't understand the distributions model. With Windows it is Microsoft, with Macs it is Apple, with Linux it is SuSE, Red Hat, Debian, Lindows, Fedora, Gentoo, Knoppix, DynaBolic... Another intimidating thing is choosing a desktop. Let's see, do I want KDE or Gnome or whatever. For the most part, I think that SuSE is easier to install than Windows, but that is not what the general perception is. Linux is slowly making inroads on the desktop. But there is still the Windows mentality: The other day an acquaintance had YOU hang (the same time www.suse.com was offline). His solution was to press reset. I had the same problem, but I simply killed the processes (kill -TERM). He simply didn't know how to do it so he pressed reset. The only way that Linux will grow on the desktop is for major organizations to adopt it. We are seeing this happen in Bangalore and Munich. With Novell, we might see this happening in a major corporation in the US. The bottom line is that IMHO, Linux is ready for the desktop, but is lacking some of the major applications that are only available on Windows. Developers will port their products either to run natively or through WINE (compiled natively with WINE libraries) only when they perceive that there is a large enough (potential) market for their products. - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/+Wl0+wA+1cUGHqkRAgAOAJ49TCYquzTrn0yXrWoYuWj26jaW2QCdErG1 WSUuvogZmnlwPsa1rDbAPrI= =7BKS -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:03:11 -0500 "Paul W. Abrahams" wrote:

On Monday 05 January 2004 8:41 am, Jerry Feldman wrote:

...

The bottom line is that IMHO, Linux is ready for the desktop, but is lacking some of the major applications that are only available on Windows. Developers will port their products either to run natively or through WINE (compiled natively with WINE libraries) only when they perceive that there is a large enough (potential) market for their products.

Perhaps the WINE people will eventually be ambitious enough to make up a list of critical apps (including at least one popular Windows tax program, clearly) and get those to run. If Wine could run, say, TurboTax and QuickBooks, Linux on the desktop would be a more feasible alternative for a lot of folks. I've been told that QuickBooks runs under CrossoverOffice. I have QuickBooks on order for BostonUsergroups, and I'll try to remember to report my success or lack of it.

- -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/+Z3o+wA+1cUGHqkRAjA4AJ45/qOVPilpOf/1jgYPajbwewk2sACeNrCN 1XPQ/7ISPsA+WoR+4F1mPAY= =pAkz -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On Mon, Jan 05, 2004 at 11:40:17AM -0600 or thereabouts, Jeffrey W. Zents wrote:

Paul W. Abrahams wrote: <snip>

...

Perhaps the WINE people will eventually be ambitious enough to make up a list of critical apps (including at least one popular Windows tax program, clearly) and get those to run. If Wine could run, say, TurboTax and QuickBooks, Linux on the desktop would be a more feasible alternative for a lot of folks. Paul Abrahams

because I need Turbo-Tax, Quicken to contact my bank, and I love to use Dragon Naturally Speaking to dictate my dissertation into. If I had those on Linux I would spend the time trying to make my 5 yr. old's games run under Wine or VMware. But since I have to be in XP anyway, I <snip>

Jeff Zents

Jeff, Since v4 of VMWare, Dragon or ViaVoice runs perfectly in VMW, under SUSE, or any distro. I use it all the time. -- Gary Chaos, panic, pandemonium - my work here is done

Paul W. Abrahams wrote:

On Monday 05 January 2004 12:48 pm, Gary wrote:

...

Since v4 of VMWare, Dragon or ViaVoice runs perfectly in VMW, under SUSE, or any distro. I use it all the time.

I run TurboTax (or TaxCut, which I'm switching to) under Win4Lin, which has similar functionality to VMWare. Win4Lin does require that you have a licensed copy of Windows, though, and I assume VMWare does also. The arguments for VMWare vs. Win4Lin are a whole other thread.

The advantage of Wine is that it would not require a copy of Windows.

Paul Abrahams

Have you tried to run Quicken under WIn4Lin? I love my ignorance, where can I learn more about this program? Jeff Zents

On Monday 05 January 2004 12:48 pm, Gary wrote:

...

Since v4 of VMWare, Dragon or ViaVoice runs perfectly in VMW, under SUSE, or any distro. I use it all the time.

I run TurboTax (or TaxCut, which I'm switching to) under Win4Lin, which has similar functionality to VMWare. Win4Lin does require that you have a licensed copy of Windows, though, and I assume VMWare does also. The arguments for VMWare vs. Win4Lin are a whole other thread.

The advantage of Wine is that it would not require a copy of Windows. Agreed. Let's put the 3 into perspective as to what they are: VMWare - Generalized virtual machine for running multiple operating systems simultaneously. Win4Lin - A Linux based virtual machine that allows you to run a copy of Windows 9x concurrently with Linux. WINE - a set of libraries and emulator where you can run many Windows

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:53:40 -0500 "Paul W. Abrahams" wrote: programs. Software vendors can also use the libraries to port their products. Each is different and fits different needs. - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/+bgW+wA+1cUGHqkRAutLAJ9LJFHbVGR5UI1CAOeJ9HOhGkYUTgCdFtig eZdI08YCwwljiNsyHgg49j4= =Xjp/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

And I expect Wine to stay ALPHA until m$ has been erased from the universe, else it would not be trying to keep up with all the patches and changes they are attempting to innoculate the web and it's workstations with to their own betterment. scsijon At 05:54 PM 7/01/2004, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:

Jerry Feldman wrote:

...

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:53:40 -0500 "Paul W. Abrahams" wrote:

...

On Monday 05 January 2004 12:48 pm, Gary wrote: [snip] The advantage of Wine is that it would not require a copy of Windows. Agreed. Let's put the 3 into perspective as to what they are: VMWare - Generalized virtual machine for running multiple operating systems simultaneously. Win4Lin - A Linux based virtual machine that allows you to run a copy of Windows 9x concurrently with Linux. WINE - a set of libraries and emulator where you can run many Windows programs. Software vendors can also use the libraries to port their products. Each is different and fits different needs. So being the 'freeloader' WINE is the better choice as it is Windows version forward and backward compatible ie XP, Longhorn, whatever in 2006, 3.11, 9x, NT? Pity it is still ALPHA :(

I hope the next version of WINE supports Novell or that they give Win4Lin away in the boxed sets :)

-- ======================================================================== Hylton Conacher - Licenced ex-Windows user (apart from Quicken) Registered Linux user # 229959 at http://counter.li.org Using SuSE 9.0 with KDE 3.1 ========================================================================

-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

On Mon, 2004-01-05 at 12:55, Jeffrey W. Zents wrote:

...

...

because I need Turbo-Tax, Quicken to contact my bank, and I love to use Dragon Naturally Speaking to dictate my dissertation into. If I had those on Linux I would spend the time trying to make my 5 yr. old's games run under Wine or VMware. But since I have to be in XP anyway, I

I run Quicken and Turbo-Tax under VMware without error, it's the only reason that I use VMware. If both ran under wine I could ditch M$ and VMware all together. Another advantage of VMware is the lack of the need to dual boot. -- Ken Schneider unix user since 1989 linux user since 1994 SuSE user since 1998 (5.2)

On Monday 05 January 2004 7:03 pm, Hans Krueger wrote:

here's what their sent me

We do not offer a downloadable program for Linux users, but, we do offer TaxACT ONLINE which can be used by all operating systems. TaxACT ONLINE is located on our website, www.TaxACTOnline.com.

[snip] Yes.....same thing I rec'd. Fred -- "...Linux, MS-DOS, and Windows XP (also known as the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly)."

The Sunday 2004-01-04 at 20:51 -0500, Paul W. Abrahams wrote:

TurboTax is a particularly critical case because there will never be a Gnu version of it. No individual or group in the Gnu community would ever commit to updating the program annually in a major way to account for changes in the tax laws. Now if someone would bribe Intuit to come out with a Linux version ...

I also wonder if any other tax programs such as TaxCut (from H&R Block) will run under Wine.

I'm curious. In my country (Spain), our government distributes, free of charge, a program to prepare our tax forms - windows only, I'm afraid, and it doesn't run under wine, not yet. But our government also have a java app, that runs online, on any OS (or so they claim). Doesn't your government do a similar thing? I seem to understand from this thread that you have to buy that taxation software from private companies, is that so? -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson

* Richard Atcheson [01-17-04 03:05]:

On Friday 16 January 2004 06:52 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Doesn't your government do a similar thing? I seem to understand from this thread that you have to buy that taxation software from private companies, is that so?

Carlos, the onlypeople that get anything 'free' from our government are the ones that either dont earn a living or make so much they own the damn government!

Or tend to disrespect the written rules..... -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org

The Saturday 2004-01-17 at 08:07 -0500, James Knott wrote:

This means that when you ask the government for something, you're really asking everyone else to pay for you.

And my money as well :-) Anyway, as they want me to pay taxes, they have to make it as easy as possible: therefore, here the program to fill the forms is given free - meaning, of course, that part of our taxes went to pay the programmers; but that is cheaper than everybody paying a bunch of private companies for equivalent software (and safer). And, as it means that fraud is lowering (less excuses), our taxes don't have to go up to compensate. Anyway, no need to continue the offtopic: my question has been answered, and my curiosity fulfilled :-) -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson

Thanks for this. I was reading many many different How-To's, FAQ's and whatnot's but still couldn't figure out how to start the goofy thing. Till now, thanks. During the setup, it found everything including my XP drive (NTFS). I heard that it was a bad thing to write to an NTFS drive so I deleted that entry. Does WINE write to these disks? Can I put that entry back as a reference point? Thanks Russ Lars Nore'n wrote:

Russ wrote:

...

Hi All,

Can anyone tell me how to get started with wine. I do have a Win98se partition.

/usr/bin/winesetup

After that, right-click on an *.exe-file and choose to open it with Wine and see if it works - some programs do, some don't.

See http://frankscorner.org/ for more info.

/Lars