Re: [opensuse] Factory without subfs - what about ivman ? - openSUSE Users

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Re: [opensuse] Factory without...

Re: [opensuse] Factory without subfs - what about ivman ?

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eescar＠free.fr

14 Feb 2006 14 Feb '06

12:07

Karl Eichwalder a �crit :

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houghi writes:

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Now imagine the folloing questions: When I not in Gnome or in KDE, I am unable to read my CD's.

Those questions do not occur. If a user does not use Gnome or KDE, he is an expert and knows how to solve self-made problems. If he does not know, the answer is: Log into Gnome or KDE.

Please consider this : I use some headless fileserver on a remote site; the data backup is done on an external usb2 hard drive swapped once a week by an unqualified person which is only able to unplugged and re-plug the device. Don't you think that in this case, console hotplug is really usefull! At least, I DO! Futhermore, WHY Someone should think what is good and what is wrong to do, FOR ME??? This is the very reason why some years ago I quite my M$ qualified sysadmin job!!!!! Please let ME decide what I should do and what I shouldn't. I consider that this (no more automounting in console mode) is a REAL step backward as it is YOUR responsability (as end user) to decide. My 2cents opinion ... MaNU --

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Pascal Bleser

14 Feb 14 Feb

12:22

New subject: [opensuse] Factory without subfs - what about ivman ?

eescar@free.fr wrote:

...

Karl Eichwalder a �crit :

...
houghi writes:

...
Now imagine the folloing questions: When I not in Gnome or in KDE, I am unable to read my CD's. Those questions do not occur. If a user does not use Gnome or KDE, he is an expert and knows how to solve self-made problems. If he does not know, the answer is: Log into Gnome or KDE.

Please consider this :

I use some headless fileserver on a remote site; the data backup is done on an external usb2 hard drive swapped once a week by an unqualified person which is only able to unplugged and re-plug the device. Don't you think that in this case, console hotplug is really usefull! At least, I DO!

Of course "hotplug" mounting is useful in a number of cases. No one said the opposite. Yet, a number of options could be found to circumvent the lack of subfs: - autofs - add mount and umount around your backup process (which is much safer and more deterministic anyway) - use ivman I don't see why you can't add mount at the beginning of your backup procedure and then add umount at the end of it. Let's not exaggerate this either, a lot of people have been able to live for years without "hotplug mounting". This doesn't mean we shouldn't find a solution. But this doesn't mean either that the whole system is useless just because that feature is lacking on the console and non-KDE/GNOME window managers.

...

Futhermore, WHY Someone should think what is good and what is wrong to do, FOR ME??? This is the very reason why some years ago I quite my M$ qualified sysadmin job!!!!! Please let ME decide what I should do and what I shouldn't.

Gosh, what is it with you and Houghi, having a bad day ? We're in a process of discussing this issue and trying to find solutions. There's no need to get mad or drawing premature conclusions.

...

I consider that this (no more automounting in console mode) is a REAL step backward as it is YOUR responsability (as end user) to decide.

Could you PLEASE avoid SHOUTING ?!?!? Thank you :) cheers -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ _\_v FOSDEM 2006 -- 25+26 February 2006 in Brussels

houghi

15:11

New subject: [opensuse] Factory without subfs - what about ivman ?

On Tue, Feb 14, 2006 at 01:22:59PM +0100, Pascal Bleser wrote:

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Gosh, what is it with you and Houghi, having a bad day ?

The decision was taken that we would go and look for a solution, because NOT having automounting was considerd a bad ide. When the people start about why automounting is bad for them, it troes the discussion back and that pisses me off.

...

We're in a process of discussing this issue and trying to find solutions. There's no need to get mad or drawing premature conclusions.

Indeed no need to draw preamture conclusions, just as there is no need to express ones feelings why automounting is not something they want. As far as I understand, automounting will be available if at all possible. houghi -- Some men are alive simply because it is against the law to kill them. -- Ed Howe

jdd

15:55

New subject: [opensuse] Factory without subfs - what about ivman ?

houghi wrote:

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As far as I understand, automounting will be available if at all possible.

AFAIK the problem was to now if automounitng if default or not. if a very simple way to choose at install (or after) is provided, it's of little importance. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos

houghi

16:30

New subject: [opensuse] Factory without subfs - what about ivman ?

On Tue, Feb 14, 2006 at 04:55:50PM +0100, jdd wrote:

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houghi wrote:

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As far as I understand, automounting will be available if at all possible.

AFAIK the problem was to now if automounitng if default or not.

No. Up till now automounting would only be provided for KDE and Gnome users, not to users of anything else.

...

if a very simple way to choose at install (or after) is provided, it's of little importance.

Up till now that was not possible. Hope this changes. houghi -- Murphy's Law is recursive. Washing your car to make it rain doesn't work.

Carl-Daniel Hailfinger

12:30

New subject: [opensuse] Factory without subfs - what about ivman ?

eescar@free.fr schrieb:

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I use some headless fileserver on a remote site; the data backup is done on an external usb2 hard drive swapped once a week by an unqualified person which is only able to unplugged and re-plug the device.

In this case, you're asking for dataloss anyway. Either the backup process is not running during drive swap, then you can schedule an umount with cron, or the backup process is running during drive swap and you lose all your data. Regards, Carl-Daniel -- http://www.hailfinger.org/

Thomas Hertweck

23:44

New subject: [opensuse] Factory without subfs - what about ivman ?

eescar@free.fr wrote:

...

[...]

I use some headless fileserver on a remote site; the data backup is done on an external usb2 hard drive swapped once a week by an unqualified person which is only able to unplugged and re-plug the device.

Don't you think that in this case, console hotplug is really usefull! At least, I DO!

Futhermore, WHY Someone should think what is good and what is wrong to do, FOR ME??? This is the very reason why some years ago I quite my M$ qualified sysadmin job!!!!! Please let ME decide what I should do and what I shouldn't.

I consider that this (no more automounting in console mode) is a REAL step backward as it is YOUR responsability (as end user) to decide.

Have you ever measured the performance of the external hard drive? I have an external USB 2.0 hard drive with 300GB for private backup purpose. If this disk is mounted with standard settings on a SUSE 10.0 box which supports USB 2.0, I end up with a very very poor performance and backups take a very long time. If I mount the same hard drive manually (and avoid therefore the sync-option), I can easily backup more than 10 times as much data as before in the same time. Obviously, we have a problem: you like the automount mechanism as it allows you to use unqualified personnel for your backups on remote sites, I don't like the automount mechanism because (for instance) it comes along with a severe impact on performance! The questions now are: can we find a solution that will make everybody happy. Does anybody know how this will be handled in upcoming SUSE distributions? Mounting with sync-option cannot be the ultimate solution (from my point of view), and I am sure that people keep complaining about the poor performance of their external drives. Are there any plans to somehow allow async mount options although an automounter is used? Or are there any other ideas concerning this issue? Cheers, Th.

Danny Kukawka

15 Feb 15 Feb

10:41

New subject: [opensuse] Factory without subfs - what about ivman ?

On Wednesday 15 February 2006 00:44, Thomas Hertweck wrote:

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eescar@free.fr wrote: Have you ever measured the performance of the external hard drive? I have an external USB 2.0 hard drive with 300GB for private backup purpose. If this disk is mounted with standard settings on a SUSE 10.0 box which supports USB 2.0, I end up with a very very poor performance and backups take a very long time. If I mount the same hard drive manually (and avoid therefore the sync-option), I can easily backup more than 10 times as much data as before in the same time.

But this has nothing to do with subfs or with automounting. This is a problem in general with the sync option and you could configure this. Danny

Marcel Hilzinger

12:15

New subject: [opensuse] Factory without subfs - what about ivman ?

Am Mittwoch, 15. Februar 2006 11:41 schrieb Danny Kukawka:

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On Wednesday 15 February 2006 00:44, Thomas Hertweck wrote:

...
eescar@free.fr wrote: Have you ever measured the performance of the external hard drive? I have an external USB 2.0 hard drive with 300GB for private backup purpose. If this disk is mounted with standard settings on a SUSE 10.0 box which supports USB 2.0, I end up with a very very poor performance and backups take a very long time. If I mount the same hard drive manually (and avoid therefore the sync-option), I can easily backup more than 10 times as much data as before in the same time.

But this has nothing to do with subfs or with automounting. This is a problem in general with the sync option and you could configure this.

Right. Btw. I thought, that the frontend coolo is working on should come with beta3, but there is no graphical option yet :-( Also the default mount options make USB/Firewire-disks still as slow as in 10.0. Will "sync" be faster or does it remain, as it is? -- Üdvözlettel -- Mit freundlichen Grüssen, Marcel Hilzinger

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Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
Danny Kukawka
eescar＠free.fr
houghi
jdd
Marcel Hilzinger
Pascal Bleser
Thomas Hertweck