j.e.perry@cox.net said the following on 02/26/2013 07:48 PM:

---- Anton Aylward wrote:

...

In the past I've used Nvu and Arachnophilia, which I liked, Bluefish which I was ambiguous about and Komposer which I didn’t like mostly because it was unstable and Quanta, which I thought was overkill.

Does the community have any recommendations for a HTML editor that I might use with KDE Baskets? Please note: that context. Not web site development.

When I went through this a few months ago, I (who had been using Qanta until it fell off the tracks of kde4), searched around for something I could use. Nothing satisfied me until I gave up in disgust and started doing it manually with kdevelop. Once I discovered the template facility, and saw how easy it was to copy markups from wwwc into templates, I never looked back, or even around, again. There are some minor conveniences that I still miss from Quanta, but I everything I want right at my fingertips.

Thank you, John. I subscribe to the list so there's no need to cc me directly .... I took a look and wonder how this is any different from a syntax directed editor. Kate perhaps, or VIM with a suitable plugin. -- Plunderers of the world, after they, laying everything waste, run out of land, they probe even the sea: if their enemy has wealth, they have greed; if the enemy be poor, they are ambitious; neither East nor West has sated them; alone of mankind they covet poverty with the same passion as wealth. Robbery, butchery, rape they misname Empire: they make a wasteland and call it peace. - Tacitus, Agricola 80 The speech of Calgacus the Caledonian at the battle of Mons Graupius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

j.e.perry@cox.net said the following on 02/26/2013 09:22 PM:

---- Anton Aylward wrote:

...

I took a look and wonder how this is any different from a syntax directed editor. Kate perhaps, or VIM with a suitable plugin.

It's not. In fact, isn't kate the editor for kdevelop? My point, which I guess I didn't make very well, was that since there is no current fully wsywig html editor, I've found that manual editing, with snippets from the standard maintainers to reduce the dreary long repetitive strings, makes html building easy. Just flipping back and forth between Firefox and kdevelop is as easy as any current dedicated html builder that I found. And I like actually seeing what I'm doing.

Ah. yes, but do you get intelligent table building, intelligent CSS and more? If it a non WYSIWYG (which I can understand since that hides many atrocities -- FF and others will dynamically correct piss-poor HTML and patch over many errors) then aren't there some split screen style HTML editors around? I seem to recall .... my 'yes it used to be but KDE dropped them .." list ... -- I suspect that, over time, all bureaucratic processes decay into cargo cults unless regularly challenged by a hostile reality. -- Alan Rocker 2001-11-23 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Billie Walsh said the following on 02/26/2013 09:52 PM:

I build a lot of web pages for genealogy and history web sites. Quanta was the best editor ever. Still get a tear in my eye when I think about it. I now use Bluefish. I really didn't like it at first. I always liked to customize tags that I use all the time. In Quanta it was easy to customize tags. Bluefish is not particularly user friendly in this way. You have to edit an XML file named "snippets" to create custom tags. As I've gotten used to it Bluefish is alright. Would still rather have Quanta back.

Context is Everything. When I build for a web site I wouldn't dream of doing it page by page! I use a CMS. I prefer Radiant, but there are many others. YMMV. I use Radiant 'cost its the simplest; you may want to feed your Inner Geek and use something that demands more fiddling such as Drupal. Why a CMS? Ease of consistency and site management/level tools. I can use a simple markup language (RedCloth) and forget about HTML. The 'generator' does HTML. So why this thread? I recently asked about printing web pages to PDF files while preserving links. This is a step along the way. Some sites have an option to 'print' that uses different CSS and so eliminates the sidebars and adverts. I can do similar by editing the CSS with a FF plugin such as http://chrispederick.com/work/web-developer/ But even so, sometimes the HTML needs a cleanup beyond what HTML Tidy can do. Why? Well if I use OpenOffice/LibreOffice to 'import' the page I can get it to make a PDF with working links. But those tools can't handle messy HTML. -- Let us never forget that government is ourselves and not an alien power over us. The ultimate rulers of our democracy are not a President and senators and congressmen and government officials, but the voters of this country.” -- Franklin D. Roosevelt -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----Original Message----- From: Billie Walsh To: opensuse@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse] HTML Editor recommendation - in openSuse repositories Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 07:47:25 -0600 On 02/27/2013 07:15 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:

Billie Walsh said the following on 02/26/2013 09:52 PM:

...

I build a lot of web pages for genealogy and history web sites. Quanta was the best editor ever. Still get a tear in my eye when I think about it. I now use Bluefish. I really didn't like it at first. I always liked to customize tags that I use all the time. In Quanta it was easy to customize tags. Bluefish is not particularly user friendly in this way. You have to edit an XML file named "snippets" to create custom tags. As I've gotten used to it Bluefish is alright. Would still rather have Quanta back.

Context is Everything.

When I build for a web site I wouldn't dream of doing it page by page! I use a CMS. I prefer Radiant, but there are many others. YMMV. I use Radiant 'cost its the simplest; you may want to feed your Inner Geek and use something that demands more fiddling such as Drupal.

Why a CMS? Ease of consistency and site management/level tools. I can use a simple markup language (RedCloth) and forget about HTML. The 'generator' does HTML.

So why this thread?

I recently asked about printing web pages to PDF files while preserving links. This is a step along the way.

Some sites have an option to 'print' that uses different CSS and so eliminates the sidebars and adverts. I can do similar by editing the CSS with a FF plugin such as http://chrispederick.com/work/web-developer/

But even so, sometimes the HTML needs a cleanup beyond what HTML Tidy can do.

Why? Well if I use OpenOffice/LibreOffice to 'import' the page I can get it to make a PDF with working links. But those tools can't handle messy HTML.

Sorry, I have no idea what a "CMS" is. I see where your coming from, I just have different methods of getting there. I have around twenty different county/state websittes for genealogy and history and babysit something in the order of two hundred more. All of my sites have their own individual look. I do everything in HTML. All WYSIWYG does in inflate my blood pressure and aggravate me. I can't figure out how to get things the way *I* want them. If I'm doing something like a book transcription I will create a template and just paste in the different information for each chapter/page. But, that gets really boring really fast. I could get by just fine with Kate but my poor old hands don't like all that typing. They are much happier if I can just click a button and insert whatever tags I want. Besides that, my typing skills really suck. I never learned to type properly. To me writing HTML is like painting a picture. I see the "image" I want to create in my head and write the HTML to make it a reality. To me writing HTML to create a web page is fun and relaxing. Niether one of us right or wrong. Just different style. Good luck in your search for an editor that fits your needs. Doing web pages shouldn't be work, it should be fun. -----Original Message----- Hi Billy, The mere thought of CMS is to separate the content from the layout, rather handy if you have a lot of pages, many changing pages and have a consistant layout. Some of them include a sort of editor, some don't. If you are working with several people in a site, CMS can handle rights, which can be nice if sites grow large, and you want to delegate pre-defined parts to specific users. Another reason why people choose to use certain CMS's is the sheer number of modules/plugins that are available: When coding, i rather use the libs of CPAN instead of re-re-inventig the wheel again. But as you said: nothing is wrong, with doing it all yourself in plain html/php/perl/python. Either way, you have a learning curve: getting to know all the ins-and-outs of html, or understanding the way the CMS-designers. Once you've done thousands pages the old fashioned way ;-) it is hard the find the way to do the same in TYPO3, mambo, Joomla, Drupal, etc etc: You have to think differently. Hans -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Duaine Hechler said the following on 02/27/2013 03:55 PM:

I am looking to "modernize" my basic iframes websites.

However, there are things I want to keep the same, like Header, TOC, Footer and the middle "TV screen"

Almost everything I've looked at - changes - something. Like, floating footer that has to be updated on every webpage that is created.

Again, since I'm used to something as simple as iframes, the new package HAS to be fairly simple.

Here is an example of one of my current websites: www.fvbbs.org

TIA, Duaine

That style wouldn't be hard to duplicate in Radiant. No doubt Drupal enthusiast would say the same thing. But with a CMS its going to be implemented very very differently. Most not only separate content from presentation but also work on some kind of MVC model. A trigger/event in a region will dispatch to a handler. -- "The third person passive," said the style manual, "is to be avoided." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

---- Anton Aylward wrote:

Ah. yes, but do you get intelligent table building, intelligent CSS and more?

If it a non WYSIWYG (which I can understand since that hides many atrocities -- FF and others will dynamically correct piss-poor HTML and patch over many errors) then aren't there some split screen style HTML editors around? I seem to recall .... my 'yes it used to be but KDE dropped them .." list ...

My brief look at several "wsywig" html builders didn't show anything I could put up with. Note that it's many months -- maybe even a year or more -- since I looked, so I can't justify that statement, except to say that I looked long and hard. I'm one of those nutcases that looks with disdain on the mania to do all on the command line, and with equal disdain on the sloppy and incomplete GUI's that seem to justify that mania. But I do like the option of really seeing what's happening, as long as I don't have to wallow in the messy details. So kdevelop with lots of well-organized html snippets is almost ideal for me. The only real improvement would be a popup dialog box that offered all the options for, say, "img", and let me try things and see what my mistakes are as I make them. That's something no command line can do, and very few GUI's take the trouble to do. And I have neither the background nor the will to build such a GUI myself. Oh, and I've never dug deeply enough into css to be able to do anything with it. The defaults work fine for me, and inlining does all my simple needs have required so far. jp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Regarding Quanta................. http://quanta.sourceforge.net/release2.php -- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ - Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding (314) 838-5587 / dahechler@att.net / www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com Home & Business user of Linux - 13 years -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 02/26/2013 11:40 PM, Christofer C. Bell wrote:

On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Duaine Hechler wrote:

...

Regarding Quanta.................

http://quanta.sourceforge.net/release2.php Duaine,

That information is from December of 2007, so it's not current. While December 5th of 2012 was a Wednesday, so was December 5th of 2007. And according to the download page for Quanta, that's when the software was last updated:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/quanta/files/

It's frustrating that the author of that post failed to include the year.

-- Chris Sincere apologies for the false hopes. (I too liked Quanta)

Duaine -- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ - Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding (314) 838-5587 / dahechler@att.net / www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com Home & Business user of Linux - 13 years -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Ken Schneider - openSUSE said the following on 02/26/2013 11:14 PM:

Have you looked at the composer part of seamonkey?

Yes, unfortunately. No real advantage over things like Komposer and a while lot of overhead! -- It is not necessary to change. Survival is not mandatory. - W. Edwards Deming -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 02/27/2013 10:11 PM, j.e.perry@cox.net pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

---- Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:

...

...

It's not. In fact, isn't kate the editor for kdevelop? My point, which I guess I didn't make very well, was that since there is no current fully wsywig html editor, I've found that manual editing, with snippets from the standard maintainers to reduce the dreary long repetitive strings, makes html building easy. Just flipping back and forth between Firefox and kdevelop is as easy as any current dedicated html builder that I found. And I like actually seeing what I'm doing.

jp

Have you looked at the composer part of seamonkey?

Actually, no. I seem to recall there were several real fans, and several real haters. I guess I should take a look, but the project that prompted my search is now done, and I don't have anything else in mind. This was a personal project -- all my professional stuff is in C/C++ and documentation.

Depending on the interest my family shows in this past one (travelog of a long trip in my MR-2), I may do something of the sort again in the near future. But the idea of a huge mishmash to replace in one lump all of FF, TB, and Quanta seemed too much for me to deal with. Is Seamonkey's html editing really good enough to justify turning my back on the others?

jp

I think it is worth a look. You can easily switch between html input and wysiwyg. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org