-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Richard Bos wrote:

Op maandag 5 juni 2006 08:58, schreef jdd:

...

could we have an alias (or something similar) between suse-linux-e and something like "opensuse-technical@opensuse.org"

may be part of the problem comes from the name. suse-linux-e may be understood, like all the others suse.com lists, as Novell specifics or pre-opensuse SUSE Linux distributions (up to 9.3)

unifying the names should enhance the system.

Hmmm, opensuse-linux-e?

But...., as we experience people think that this is the _technical_list. So, let this list grow to be the technical list and as has been proposed before create a new list opensuse-community. Come'n, opensuse is the a techical project and as such I (and many others as can be experienced) expect _this_ list to be about technical issues.

Sorry, I'm against this... well.. slightly ;D We shouldn't "let go" this list as a technical one, but instead migrate suse-linux-e, or whatever. But splitting the technical list into suse-linux-e and opensuse won't be a benefit to anyone. I'm not against the idea though, move suse-linux-e to opensuse@opensuse.org and move this list to opensuse-community@opensuse.org But migrating suse-linux-e is going to be a painful process. Henne, you had something in your plans/AIs about that, any progress or plan yet ? cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEg+0Ar3NMWliFcXcRAkvgAJ0fjLN8gQxriN6SNzN3Bxpa/tcLzwCgssu4 KhOJYYrRNfM5Nv6Tr/0JOrQ= =Qus6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

Adrian Schröter wrote:

IIRC henne wanted to make suse-linux-e also available under the opensuse domain. So we can always announce the new name and fade out the old one. Without the need to resubscribe anyone.

this is what I had in mind :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

Hi, On Monday, June 05, 2006 at 13:12:27, Siegbert Baude wrote:

Adrian Schröter wrote:

...

IIRC henne wanted to make suse-linux-e also available under the opensuse domain. So we can always announce the new name and fade out the old one. Without the need to resubscribe anyone.

Under which name? The plan for migrating seems to be a good idea, IMHO, because suse-linux-e is not a name that speaks for itself.

See my mail for the new ml layout http://lists4.opensuse.org/opensuse/2006-02/msg00382.html suse-linux-e becomes opensuse-users suse-linux-s becomes opensuse-users-es suse-linux becomes opensuse-users-de I have some time now for the new mailinglist server and im already working on it since last weekend. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, http://hennevogel.de "To die. In the rain. Alone." Ernest Hemingway --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

On Mon, Jun 05, 2006 at 02:28:18PM +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

Hi,

On Monday, June 05, 2006 at 13:12:27, Siegbert Baude wrote:

...

Adrian Schröter wrote:

...

IIRC henne wanted to make suse-linux-e also available under the opensuse domain. So we can always announce the new name and fade out the old one. Without the need to resubscribe anyone.

Under which name? The plan for migrating seems to be a good idea, IMHO, because suse-linux-e is not a name that speaks for itself.

See my mail for the new ml layout

http://lists4.opensuse.org/opensuse/2006-02/msg00382.html

suse-linux-e becomes opensuse-users suse-linux-s becomes opensuse-users-es suse-linux becomes opensuse-users-de

I have some time now for the new mailinglist server and im already working on it since last weekend.

This does not explain what will happen to opensuse itself. That is where the problem is. If anything I would say that if there is opensuse-users and opensuse, I would have no idea where to ask community questions and where to ask technical ones. houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome. If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: suse-linux-e-subscribe@suse.com, post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

Hi, On Monday, June 05, 2006 at 17:06:50, houghi wrote:

On Mon, Jun 05, 2006 at 02:28:18PM +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...

On Monday, June 05, 2006 at 13:12:27, Siegbert Baude wrote:

...

Adrian Schröter wrote:

...

IIRC henne wanted to make suse-linux-e also available under the opensuse domain. So we can always announce the new name and fade out the old one. Without the need to resubscribe anyone.

Under which name? The plan for migrating seems to be a good idea, IMHO, because suse-linux-e is not a name that speaks for itself.

See my mail for the new ml layout

http://lists4.opensuse.org/opensuse/2006-02/msg00382.html

suse-linux-e becomes opensuse-users suse-linux-s becomes opensuse-users-es suse-linux becomes opensuse-users-de

I have some time now for the new mailinglist server and im already working on it since last weekend.

This does not explain what will happen to opensuse itself.

Nothing for now. Lets see what will happen once we have -users lists. Then decide again...

That is where the problem is.

There is no problem except that suse-* is not hosted on opensuse.org and therefor not visible in the openSUSE "space"..

If anything I would say that if there is opensuse-users and opensuse, I would have no idea where to ask community questions and where to ask technical ones.

I find it pretty obvious. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, http://hennevogel.de "To die. In the rain. Alone." Ernest Hemingway --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

Mandag 05 juni 2006 18:19 skrev Henne Vogelsang:

...

If anything I would say that if there is opensuse-users and opensuse, I would have no idea where to ask community questions and where to ask technical ones.

I find it pretty obvious.

I'm personally in favour of keeping things as they are and educate and redirect people who don't know the difference between openSUSE and SUSE Linux - but that's not surprising as I'm a stubborn bastard. But, if we're going to change things I agree with houghi, Henne's proposal is good - but we should learn from our mistakes and enhance it a little bit. opensuse-users@ -> opensuse-help opensuse@ -> opensuse-project Who's gonna misunderstand that? And then kill opensuse@. There shouldn't be a plain opensuse@ - too confusing for people to figure out which aspects of opensuse belong on there - a lot of people like Randall will expect opensuse@ to cover every and any aspect of openSUSE as well as SUSE Linux. Martin / cb400f --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

Tirsdag 06 juni 2006 00:54 skrev houghi:

Great ideas.

Well, actually it was Adrian's and Siegberts idea's respectively. Don't wanna take credit. Martin / cb400f --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

On Monday 05 June 2006 18:54, houghi wrote:

...

And then kill opensuse@. There shouldn't be a plain opensuse@ - too confusing for people to figure out which aspects of opensuse belong on there - a lot of people like <snip>

Leave it as a honey trap. :-) People still unwilling or unable to understand can use it as their playground. A bit like these castles you have outside hamburger places. (Also for the same purpose. :-)

Maybe you could keep it but dump the mail to /dev/null after auto-responding with a directory of current SUSE lists, relevant subscription information and links pointing to the archives? Carl --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

Hi, On Mon, 5 Jun 2006, Rajko M wrote:

Carl Hartung wrote:

...

On Monday 05 June 2006 18:54, houghi wrote:

...

...

...

And then kill opensuse@. There shouldn't be a plain opensuse@ - too confusing for people to figure out which aspects of opensuse belong on there - a lot of people like <snip> Leave it as a honey trap. :-) People still unwilling or unable to understand can use it as their playground. A bit like these castles you have outside hamburger places. (Also for the same purpose. :-)

Maybe you could keep it but dump the mail to /dev/null after auto-responding with a directory of current SUSE lists, relevant subscription information and links pointing to the archives?

Keep it for people that can't decide where to go. Newbies will come in general discussion and than get initial help and directions to better places for particular topic.

It was long time ago, but I still remember first Linux installation. I had no clue where to go, what to ask.

In any way, we have to go the "intuitive" way, from the eyes of the first-time user. Because you can't "educate" someone you have never seen, spoken or touched. So I think "opensuse" (the bare name) must get made ready to process postings like "it does not work - what to do". Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

On Mon, Jun 05, 2006 at 06:51:41PM -0500, Rajko M wrote:

Keep it for people that can't decide where to go.

Please. This with a good reply at subscription. It will eiter become a playground, will grow into something great or whatever.

Newbies will come in general discussion and than get initial help and directions to better places for particular topic.

Or get pointed to the correct place by a bot or whatever will be decided upon.

It was long time ago, but I still remember first Linux installation. I had no clue where to go, what to ask.

I did not even had a clue what to fill out as login. I mean I new the password, but I had no idea what the login was. No user was added at that moment. So no other way then to get back to Windows and ask. houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome. If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: suse-linux-e-subscribe@suse.com, post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 12:33:15AM +0200, Martin Schlander wrote:

...

opensuse-users@ -> opensuse-help

opensuse@ -> opensuse-project

Who's gonna misunderstand that?

Great ideas.

...

And then kill opensuse@. There shouldn't be a plain opensuse@ - too confusing for people to figure out which aspects of opensuse belong on there - a lot of people like <snip>

Leave it as a honey trap. :-) People still unwilling or unable to understand can use it as their playground. A bit like these castles you have outside hamburger places. (Also for the same purpose. :-)

houghi

houghi wrote: the better way to see what happen is to make it (in your mind) read only. _do not_ post on this list and look at what happen... jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

Hi, On Tuesday, June 06, 2006 at 03:07:51, Kenneth Aar, Grafikern.no wrote:

Martin Schlander wrote:

...

<snip>Henne's proposal is good - but we should learn from our mistakes and enhance it a little bit.

opensuse-users@ -> opensuse-help

opensuse@ -> opensuse-project

Who's gonna misunderstand that? This is the best suggestion so far.

To get rid of of all confusion we must kill opensuse. - And by that I mean the list, and not the other thingy. ;-)

Henne: I hope you are reading and agree to this. I don't think it's such a good idea to first change it to opensuse-technical and then discuss it again, a better soulution has presented itself (IMO)... So we owe it to ourselves to do it right when we set this plan in motion.

Im not against any idea to change the mailinglist layout we are going to use. What i need is a layout that scales. Scales over projects and languages. I proposed such a layout a while ago. If we exchange names in there (foo-help instead of foo-users or foo-project as default instead of foo) does not matter too much. From the technical side this is a no-brainer. I just need an overall layout i can follow. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, Core Services "Rules change. The Game remains the same." - Omar (The Wire) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

jdd wrote:

[...]

the most evident word (internationally accepted) is "help". So there should be an "opensuse-help" list.

.From my point of view, this is not such a good idea. For many mailing lists the address <name>-help@ is used to automatically send a short help with instructions on how to use the mailing list software and/or a short FAQ to a user. For instance, suse-linux-help@suse.com is such an address. Thus, IMO there should be no actual list with that name, that's again misleading (at least for people having some experiences with mailing lists). Two additional comments on some related subjects: a) I can understand Randall's arguments and I think he's technically correct. I won't comment on the tone of the whole discussion. b) I don't think that renaming etc. or removing this list will solve all problems. There should be a list where users can ask all general questions about openSUSE, whether these questions are about the project or whatever. Most people with general questions do not subscribe to all the different mailing lists. This is a fact. In Principle, I can't see a problem with some technical questions here; the useless discussions, flames, and all the unnecessary blabla are much more annoying than technical questions. Cheers, Th. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

At 11:07 AM 6/06/2006, you wrote:

Martin Schlander wrote:

...

<snip>Henne's proposal is good - but we should learn from our mistakes and enhance it a little bit.

opensuse-users@ -> opensuse-help

maybe this would be better if it was -> opensuse-helpusers so people know it's help for users and not help for the opensuse mailing system? Oh, yes, and I think the base list should still exist, but only as a autoreply explaining the different lists and what they are for. scsijon --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

On Mon, Jun 05, 2006 at 09:18:51PM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:

Why am I the bad guy here?

Because of your wording.

Because I forced those who consider themselves the police of this list to actually say what is and is not on-topic for this list and to use words as they're actually defined in English?

That is so tragic, it is almost funny. At this moment what is on topic has not changed. What is on-topic is still very clear to everybody else, exept apparently you. Do you already understand what a 'community' is?

I did _not_ come to this with any preconceptions nor did I insist one way or another.

Yes, you did. Going on and on and on and on is what I would call 'insisting'.

I did not care what the answer was.

Yes, you did. Otherwise you would not be not happy with the answer.

I was only trying to get a clear statement, and it was like pulling teeth to do so.

You got a statement and you did not like it. That was the reason you kept on going. Seems pretty insiting. Even when you told that one person gave you a satisfying answer, you kept bugging about others not giving the answer you wanted to hear.

Don't worry. I'll not be asking any questions in your private playground,

You already have. The first 7 words of your posting were a question.

whatever you decide to call it and whatever misuse of English you decide to use in describing it.

This is exactly the wording why you are 'the bad guy'. With the above you asume that no good wording will be found. Such an assumtion is degrading. As you have better understanding of the use of English words, or so you seem to claim, that is something you should have noticed. houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome. If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: suse-linux-e-subscribe@suse.com, post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

On Mon, Jun 05, 2006 at 10:09:24PM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote: <snip> I insisted only <snip> <quote>

...

nor did I insist </quote>

Did you insist or did you not insist. <snip the rest. as it is a repeat of what has been said before.> You know what? You are right and I have my peace. So whatever. <plonk> houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome. If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: suse-linux-e-subscribe@suse.com, post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

On 6/6/06, Randall R Schulz wrote:

I certainly do. A community is _people_ not _projects_. You are _not_ discussing _the community_, you're discussing _the work_. No matter how many times you repeat it, you're not going to change English to suit your misunderstanding.

I think that Randall is technically correct, even though his tone at times can sound on the aggressive side, whether it is intentional or not. We all think we know what 'community' means, but we do use the term where the word 'project' would be much more suitable. 'Community' _is_ a set of people, this is a definition of the word in English. The openSUSE community is the set of people involved in the openSUSE project. Therefore, examine your own use of the word 'community' and see if you really mean 'project'. Houghi's signature in my view is currently wrong, and should state project rather than community. The words are not synonymous. Peter 'Pflodo' Flodin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

Martin Schlander schrieb:

opensuse-users@ -> opensuse-help

opensuse@ -> opensuse-project

Who's gonna misunderstand that?

I second that. Except these two names, I also liked the layout of Henne's proposal with regard to the topic and language specifics.

And then kill opensuse@. There shouldn't be a plain opensuse@ - too confusing for people to figure out which aspects of opensuse belong on there

If I think about Henne's complete proposal once again, for me the problem seems to be, to have exactly one schema both for low- and high-traffic lists. - For low traffic ones, Henne's layout perfectly fits, as everything can go to project@ as a catch-all and only if there is need, more specific subtopics are arranged. - For high traffic ones however, subtopics are a must-have and then the question remains, what will be on topic in the unspecific project@ list. It would be best to not have it at all, but this breaks the unique schema. So my proposal for high traffic lists is to have project@, but just send an automatic answer that lists the topics of this project and the relevant mailing list names. project-help@ as the standard sink for all I-don't-know-where-to-ask-mails seems to be o.k. With regard to Martin's suggestion about killing opensuse: As the existence of opensuse@ is already spread over many sites, it would not be good to just kill it. So, introduce the new name schema, adapt the "communication" page at opensuse.org and send an automatic answer with the new layout and a pointer to the communication page as answer to every mail for opensuse@. In this way nobody thinks, that the mailing lists are not working any more and in the same time gets the pointers, which hopefully take away some work off Houghi on this list, and -help and -project should also satisfy Randalf's need for good English. ;-) Henne, would this be o.k. for you? Ciao Siegbert --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

On 2006-06-05 18:46:33 -0500, Rajko M wrote:

It doesn't sound obvious to me, Henne. The opensuse-users tells me that it is place for users, but nothing specific what to expect there, place for chat or help and support, or both. It will be used just as it is "opesuse" now, for both.

Few others are lesser vague: opensuse-help -support -installation -configuration

The fact that users with problems are coming to opensuse tells: - the clear named place for help around opensuse.org product (opensuse-help) is missing - "opensuse" is considered as general discussion list and used as replacement.

dont split it too much ... users shouldnt be forced to change the mailinglist just because the finally got the system installed and now have a configuration question. darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

Tirsdag 06 juni 2006 02:26 skrev Rajko M:

It was just list of words that will make lesser confusion, and in the mean time I backed up proposal by Martin Schlander,

Move function of - to: opensuse-users@ -> opensuse-help opensuse@ -> opensuse-project

with addition to keep bare "opensuse" for newbies, as it seems they like it :-)

I've been thinking some more about this. I don't think we should "support" the misconception that opensuse is a distro, how about: opensuse-users@ -> suse-linux-help@opensuse.org Martin / cb400f --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

Martin Schlander wrote:

Tirsdag 06 juni 2006 02:26 skrev Rajko M:

...

It was just list of words that will make lesser confusion, and in the mean time I backed up proposal by Martin Schlander,

Move function of - to: opensuse-users@ -> opensuse-help opensuse@ -> opensuse-project

with addition to keep bare "opensuse" for newbies, as it seems they like it :-)

I've been thinking some more about this. I don't think we should "support" the misconception that opensuse is a distro, how about:

opensuse-users@ -> suse-linux-help@opensuse.org

Martin / cb400f

I was thinking how came to heated discussion on this topic, and more I think, it seems that we have to listen people, not the other way around. We want: - new users - organized way to help them - no naming confusion Users logic to select plain "opensuse" list is clear to me. If one looks for Fedora help subscribes to "fedora" not "redhat" mailing list. The problem is that we insist on naming openSUSE for community, and SUSE Linux for distribution. Fedora has not that problem. How to solve SUSE naming is up to Novell. Official it is SUSE Linux, on FTP in opensuse directory is SL-10.0-OSS, than SL-10.1, than SL-OSS-factory, and there is unofficial shortcut openSUSE (Linux). As someone mentioned opensuse-help will confuse experienced mail list users, so we have to give up on that. Probably opensuse-support will win the race, but most new users follow common logic that product found in opensuse directory, that links from opensuse.org, should be supported on opensuse mailing list. I don't see anything wrong to leave opensuse for the broadest range of topics, from technical to social, and create as you proposed opensuse-project for discussion about project. It is easier to move few of us than the whole world. Demand to close the list is irrational, effectively you lock the door that most people will try to knock on. I really don't understand what is wrong to decrease load on suse-linux-e (>100 mails a day). I don't find amusing to browse trough that amount of mails, and newcomers will be even more overhelmed with the number. We have to leave opensuse list as refuge for them. The chance that they will find installation topics of their interest is bigger. People ready to help them will have easier task to deal with basic installaton problems. Complain that someone will miss some interesting article because it is in another group is at least funny. Time used to repel inappropriate posters from here, could be used to find appropriate article in another list, and point new user to exact solution of his/her problem. BTW, I have to see for some blog place where I can put my rant in :-) -- Regards, Rajko. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

Martin Schlander wrote:

...

Tirsdag 06 juni 2006 02:26 skrev Rajko M:

...

It was just list of words that will make lesser confusion, and in the mean time I backed up proposal by Martin Schlander,

Move function of - to: opensuse-users@ -> opensuse-help opensuse@ -> opensuse-project

I've been thinking some more about this. I don't think we should "support" the misconception that opensuse is a distro, how about:

opensuse-users@ -> suse-linux-help@opensuse.org

Users logic to select plain "opensuse" list is clear to me. If one looks for Fedora help subscribes to "fedora" not "redhat" mailing list. The problem is that we insist on naming openSUSE for community, and SUSE Linux for distribution. Fedora has not that problem.

How to solve SUSE naming is up to Novell. Official it is SUSE Linux, on FTP in opensuse directory is SL-10.0-OSS, than SL-10.1, than SL-OSS-factory, and there is unofficial shortcut openSUSE (Linux).

As someone mentioned opensuse-help will confuse experienced mail list users, so we have to give up on that. Probably opensuse-support will win the race, but most new users follow common logic that product found in opensuse directory, that links from opensuse.org, should be supported on opensuse mailing list. I don't see anything wrong to leave opensuse for the broadest range of topics, from technical to social, and create as you proposed opensuse-project for discussion about project. It is easier to move few of us than the whole world.

What about opensuse-assist or opensuse-assistance for the user questions? - -- Boyd Gerber ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://quantumlab.net/pine_privacy_guard/ iD8DBQFEhvbAVtBjDid73eYRAv27AJ0aOCK5Op7q0YJxcLJLMYDqoySWdgCfQWOT JBsI22+XT7HX2k7QZzN0Ln0= =skKI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

I re-arranged the order of the quotes: Rajko M wrote:

[...] Users logic to select plain "opensuse" list is clear to me. If one looks for Fedora help subscribes to "fedora" not "redhat" mailing list. The problem is that we insist on naming openSUSE for community, and SUSE Linux for distribution. Fedora has not that problem.

I think you're right.

[...] I don't see anything wrong to leave opensuse for the broadest range of topics, from technical to social, and create as you proposed opensuse-project for discussion about project. It is easier to move few of us than the whole world.

Demand to close the list is irrational, effectively you lock the door that most people will try to knock on.

I also agree with this statement. I think we should keep this list and, if there is a requirement for a new/separate one, we should move the project-related part to the other list. This sound more feasible. The name should then be obvious ;-) But I am not sure whether we really need a separate list at this moment in time.

[...] How to solve SUSE naming is up to Novell. Official it is SUSE Linux,on FTP in opensuse directory is SL-10.0-OSS, than SL-10.1, than SL-OSS-factory, and there is unofficial shortcut openSUSE (Linux).

Any updates from the official side? At the end of the day, Novell must decide about the mailing lists on Novell's mail server. Cheers, Th. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org