On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 8:30 PM, Masim Vavai Sugianto wrote:

I have same problem with AR-5212. Wifi driver ath5k doesn't work. You have 2 choice for this kind problem :

1. Manually install madwifi driver from tar.gz (madwifi.org), with standar ./configure, make and make install. You must have gcc, make and kernel-source for this

2. Marek Stopka has built madwifi driver for openSUSE. Please take a look here : http://www.m4r3k.org/english/opensuse-linux/madwifi-driver-for-opensuse-110/

I choose the first option and my AR-5212 worked flawlessly.

The question for me is why would open suse not have support for devices? I'm sick of hearing either "but it just works in Ubuntu" or "but it just works in Windows"! GAH! Peter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Ken Schneider wrote:

Peter Van Lone pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

...

On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 8:30 PM, Masim Vavai Sugianto wrote:

...

I have same problem with AR-5212. Wifi driver ath5k doesn't work. You have 2 choice for this kind problem :

1. Manually install madwifi driver from tar.gz (madwifi.org), with standar ./configure, make and make install. You must have gcc, make and kernel-source for this

2. Marek Stopka has built madwifi driver for openSUSE. Please take a look here : http://www.m4r3k.org/english/opensuse-linux/madwifi-driver-for-opensuse-110/

I choose the first option and my AR-5212 worked flawlessly.

The question for me is why would open suse not have support for devices? I'm sick of hearing either "but it just works in Ubuntu" or "but it just works in Windows"!

GAH!

Peter

openSUSE adheres strictly to licensing issues where Ubunto doesn't seem to care if they get sued.

But they haven't got sued have they!!! Isn't it more likely Ubuntu have negotiated a redistribution license or are simply using ndiswrapper with windows drivers downloaded directly from the source? This bugaboo of law suits is a lame excuse. If the lawyers that veto all the drivers that suse leaves out or cripples spent half that amount oif time on the phone negotiating redistribution opensuse would be a complete distro out of the box/torrent. These could be packaged separately so as safely segregate these drivers from the GPL. -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 12:28 AM, Benji Weber wrote:

2008/6/3 John Andersen :

...

Isn't it more likely Ubuntu have negotiated a redistribution license or are simply using ndiswrapper with windows drivers downloaded directly from the source?

This bugaboo of law suits is a lame excuse. If the lawyers that veto all the drivers that suse leaves out or cripples spent half that amount oif time on the phone negotiating redistribution opensuse would be a complete distro out of the box/torrent.

These could be packaged separately so as safely segregate these drivers from the GPL.

If the drivers require kernel modules then they must be licensed under a GPL compatible licence[0]. Otherwise redistribution of those drivers is a violation of the copyright of the kernel developers. Inclusion of nvidia drivers etc is not a matter of getting permission from nvidia, but of getting permission from the kernel developers. Linux is distributed under the GPL, they had decided not to permit proprietary drivers. Even if you wanted to get permission to distribute such a driver it would not be possible to get permission from all kernel developers to do so.

Yet Ubuntu does manage to install cleanly without violating the gpl. Have you ever investigated HOW they do this? Once you figure it out, explain why opensuse couldn't do the same thing instead of leaving it up to the end-user. Hint: Offering a script to INSTALL proprietary drivers fetched from a vendor's site is NOT a violation of the GPL. -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 3:31 AM, G T Smith wrote:

Ubuntu may be bending the rules, but there is little mileage in anyone taking them on as there is not a lot to be gained (not a lot in bank),

That's a pretty serious allegation you've made there. Do you have anything to back it up? Ubuntu uses a "Restricted Driver Management" tool to install proprietary drivers only after the user specifically requests the install. These drivers are not in the normal repositories. As for chicken/egg: I've never seen a laptop that supported wifi but had no cat5 port. -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 1:07 AM, G T Smith wrote:

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John Andersen wrote:

...

On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 3:31 AM, G T Smith wrote:

...

Ubuntu may be bending the rules, but there is little mileage in anyone taking them on as there is not a lot to be gained (not a lot in bank),

That's a pretty serious allegation you've made there. Do you have anything to back it up?

What allegation!?

The allegation you made when you said they may be "Bending the rules". You then ASSUMED they were violating a copyright and waived it away by claiming they are small fry not worth anyone's attention. Now you want to come back and claim plausible deny-ability? Shuttleworth has very deep pockets. Some un named company in Redmond, WA is fond of back dooring money to anyone who will attack Linux. There is simply no case there. Connonical is not violating any copyrights. And their method of getting these drivers to the end user does not bring the GPL to bear on the driver software. Face it, its a perfectly legal and beautiful solution to a big problem with Linux, and one that OpenSuse/Novel could emulate/copy/adopt. But Novel has NIH syndrome here.

...

Ubuntu uses a "Restricted Driver Management" tool to install proprietary drivers only after the user specifically requests the install. These drivers are not in the normal repositories.

Hang on a minute... just what is the build service, packman etc etc??.. different approach same result.... in your originally post you seemed to be implying something rather different....

Not same result. How can you possible claim this given the number of thread about Nvidia and ATI drivers on these lists over the last 2 years? What about the flood of "wireless doesn't work" posts ever single week? OpenSuse mentions other repositories on their web page (bracketed with suitably scary language) but really offers NO HELP and NO TOOL to install these drivers. Ubuntu asks if you want them and then goes out an fetches them and installs them. (I'm not actually sure what they do in the case of a wireless only machine with no wireless drivers on the CD). Its a whole different approach and it works. Try Ubuntu someday. Its an excellent novice Distro. It caters to the new Linux user without throwing them to the wolves, by pointing them to the bewildering morass of the "build service". -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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The Wednesday 2008-06-04 at 11:43 -0700, John Andersen wrote:

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What allegation!?

The allegation you made when you said they may be "Bending the rules".

This has been said by many people, including some kernel devs. Search the archives over some years and you will find them.

Translation: Go out and find the evidence to prove YOUR point? -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 John Andersen wrote:

On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 1:07 AM, G T Smith wrote:

...

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John Andersen wrote:

...

On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 3:31 AM, G T Smith wrote:

...

Ubuntu may be bending the rules, but there is little mileage in anyone taking them on as there is not a lot to be gained (not a lot in bank), That's a pretty serious allegation you've made there. Do you have anything to back it up?

What allegation!?

The allegation you made when you said they may be "Bending the rules".

Since *when* has *may* become *are*, (crucial semantics here). Nominally *may* is speculative, *are* is definitive.... and *bending* is not *breaking* which leaves two very different semantic contexts... You are reading more into this than is strictly plausible... but this possibly is a transatlantic difference in language usaqe...

There is simply no case there. Connonical is not violating any copyrights.

I did not say they were (and I assume you mean Canonical and the con bit is not a Freudian slip :-) )...

And their method of getting these drivers to the end user does not bring the GPL to bear on the driver software.

Face it, its a perfectly legal and beautiful solution to a big problem with Linux, and one that OpenSuse/Novel could emulate/copy/adopt. But Novel has NIH syndrome here.

The international situation with patent and copyright law is not exactly completely consistent so I would hesitate to be that sweeping about the solutions legitimacy on an international basis. So far some EU states have resisted software patents for example, and there are also some differences in copyright provisions. I do not profess to being an expert in this area, but I know enough to know that I really would prefer to avoid that particular quagmire. This also comes with an implicit support overhead.. an issue here is that if you provide access to something the more naive user will expect the provider of access to support it if anything goes wrong, and get very unhappy when they find that the support does not exist...

...

<snip>

Not same result. How can you possible claim this given the number of thread about Nvidia and ATI drivers on these lists over the last 2 years?

I think from all I have seen this is not just a SuSE problem, but effects a number of other distros (and occasionally M$), the finger should be firmly pointed at Nvidia and ATI to get their act together...

What about the flood of "wireless doesn't work" posts ever single week?

Wireless seems to be a bit of PITA whatever platform you work with. I have had over time as much grief with M$ as Linux....

OpenSuse mentions other repositories on their web page (bracketed with suitably scary language) but really offers NO HELP and NO TOOL to install these drivers.

The potential tool is YaST and it is really is up to some brave soul (or masochist) to take on setting up a suitable repository and publish and maintain the relevant installation RPMs. <snip>

Try Ubuntu someday. Its an excellent novice Distro. It caters to the new Linux user without throwing them to the wolves, by pointing them to the bewildering morass of the "build service".

If I get a spare box I may take a look, but I am not about to cripple my development environment to do this. - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIRv98asN0sSnLmgIRAiAaAKDs2UQLAJqHjREoh2bX9p7dZBtsQwCg6Hz3 coqeVJxZUNHUMCjyPtPWmjk= =Vp/b -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 4:54 AM, Tom wrote:

My wlan device is a USB dongle, a Fujitsu-Siemens E5400. It has behaved reasonably well under OS 10.2 and OS 10.3 but not under 11.0RC1. This dongle is not state of the art but its advantage is that I can control propagation through the thick brick walls in my house by sliding the thing over the lamp above the desktop.

Yeah, I like having an actual antenna I can point for times like that. That's why i don't recommend a PCI wireless for a desktop. Talk about dropping signal. Set it on the floor with the back to a corner and you lose about 40-50% immediately.

In 11.0RC1 I can ping my router, but I cannnot get onto the internet. We see that a secondary ip assigned, a new HOSTNAME and ifdown/ifup no longer works.

ifup/ifdown are not allowed if you are using NetworkManager. If you go into YaST's Network Settings, you can change it to "Traditional method with ifup" Look under "Global settings"

1. Why a new hostname and a new ipaddress ? 2. How do I make the DNS servers 213.163.128.185, 213.142.0.242 the preferred ones ?

To set your hostname, you have to select the Hostname/DNS option. This will allow you to turn off DHCP and setup your config manually. Good luck. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On June 16, 2008 01:54:22 am Tom wrote:

My wlan device is a USB dongle, a Fujitsu-Siemens E5400. It has behaved reasonably well under OS 10.2 and OS 10.3 but not under 11.0RC1. This dongle is not state of the art but its advantage is that I can control propagation through the thick brick walls in my house by sliding the thing over the lamp above the desktop.

In WXP, 10.2 and 10.3 my desktop is assigned ip 192.168.2.2 from a wlan Dell Wireless 2350 Broadband Router. In 11.0RC1 I can ping my router, but I cannnot get onto the internet. We see that a secondary ip assigned, a new HOSTNAME and ifdown/ifup no longer works.

1. Why a new hostname and a new ipaddress ? 2. How do I make the DNS servers 213.163.128.185, 213.142.0.242 the preferred ones ?

From my shell as root:: Axehult-Fujitsu:/home/taxehult # ifstatus wlan0 wlan0 wlan0 DHCP client (dhcpcd) is running IPADDR='192.168.2.3' NETMASK='255.255.255.0' GATEWAYS='192.168.2.1' HOSTNAME='new-host-2' * * Help

Because it thinks you're another computer. Go to Yast, Network Devices, (Not Network Services), then Network Settings. Select a network card, and you'll see tabs for DNS and Hostings settings. Untick letting dhcp do everything for dns and you can specify your own dns settings. You may also have to set the gateway to your router's address. You can also set your IP address manually, if you like.

Keen to learn from any response Tom Axehult

-- Bob Smits, Ladysmith BC * The First Law of Intelligent Tinkering * Save all the Parts!!! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 10:43 PM, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

John Andersen escribió:

...

These could be packaged separately so as safely segregate these drivers from the GPL.

No, it doesnt matter if they are packaged separately or not, kernel modules are always derived work of the linux kernel, hence, they **must** be released under GPLv2 o compatible licenses.

How did this thread drop back two weeks? Never the less, this issue is not as clear cut as you make it out to be. In the opinion of the kernel developers it might be a derivitive work but it its not that cut and dried. http://www.rosenlaw.com/lj19.htm -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, Jun 02, 2008 at 11:26:36PM -0400, Larry Stotler wrote:

On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 10:19 PM, Peter Van Lone wrote:

...

The question for me is why would open suse not have support for devices? I'm sick of hearing either "but it just works in Ubuntu" or "but it just works in Windows"!

I have a bug open about this. What's strange is that my 5212/5213 based card works just fine with the ath5k driver. However, my 2413 card won't. I have to compile the madwifi driver to use that one. The problem I am having is that the 2413 based card is detected and then YaST tried to use the ath5k driver and says that it is installed and working. Then the card doesn't see any networks,

Please please pretty please open bugreports. ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Masim "Vavai" Sugianto wrote:

Hi Joe,

On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 8:12 AM, Joe Zien wrote:

...

I installed SuSE 11 RC1 and everything except wireless works. I have a ThinkPad T60 laptop with 11abg wireless card which works with my default distro mepis 7.01 and wireless works "right out of the box".

This is what I tried:

yast 2 -- Network services: No wireless shown Network Devices: No wireless shownIs it Network Settings: AR5212 802.11 abg -- NIC not configured

I have same problem with AR-5212. Wifi driver ath5k doesn't work. You have 2 choice for this kind problem :

1. Manually install madwifi driver from tar.gz (madwifi.org), with standar ./configure, make and make install. You must have gcc, make and kernel-source for this

2. Marek Stopka has built madwifi driver for openSUSE. Please take a look here : http://www.m4r3k.org/english/opensuse-linux/madwifi-driver-for-opensuse-110/

I choose the first option and my AR-5212 worked flawlessly.

-- Best Regards,

Masim "Vavai" Sugianto /************************************************************/ Blog (ID) : http://www.vavai.com/blog/index.php Blog (EN) : http://www.vavai.net Community : http://www.opensuse.or.id /************************************************************/

I got the madwifi tar.gz and un-tared it. Tried to run "make" and got error message "command not found" How do I install make? Is it part of another package? I use mepis 7.01 which uses synaptic package management of .deb packages. I wish SuSe would use synaptic. Pclinux uses synaptic to handle .rpm packages. Synaptic handles dependencies better than RPM. I must learn how to use SuSe package installations. I can get on the internet with a wired ethernet so I can get packages from the SuSe depositories. Please help. jozien -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

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The Friday 2008-06-06 at 00:41 -0400, Joe Zien wrote:

...

I got the madwifi tar.gz and un-tared it. Tried to run "make" and got error message "command not found" How do I install make? Is it part of another package?

Simply install "make"

- -- Cheers, Carlos E. R.

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make command is not installed. # man make (command not found) jozien -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen wrote:

On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 7:46 PM, Joe Zien wrote:

...

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

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The Friday 2008-06-06 at 00:41 -0400, Joe Zien wrote:

...

I got the madwifi tar.gz and un-tared it. Tried to run "make" and got error message "command not found" How do I install make? Is it part of another package?

Simply install "make"

- -- Cheers, Carlos E. R.

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How do you install make?

make command is not installed.

# man make (command not found)

Go into yast and search. You also need a compiler etc.

I tried to search in yast, no luck. Can you compile programs in suse 11 RC1? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2008-06-07 at 23:31 -0400, Joe Zien wrote:

...

...

...

Simply install "make"

...

...

How do you install make?

The same way you install any other program.

...

Go into yast and search. You also need a compiler etc.

I tried to search in yast, no luck.

I don't believe you. Clean your glasses. Yast -> software management -> search -> type 'make' in the box. Or browse manually the list of programs, it is somewhere under development tools.

Can you compile programs in suse 11 RC1?

Of course. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIS7CCtTMYHG2NR9URAsoeAJ4/nD/M3Rrlq8iYrOv+19MlusQG8wCfU4s0 Ldj9lqIqINDfyD8wOqfeGVw= =/MWa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 10:46 PM, Joe Zien wrote:

How do you install make?

make command is not installed.

# man make (command not found)

You need to start YaST and go into the Software Management module and install the kernel sources. This will automatically add in the compilers and everything else you will need. You have to have the kernel sources installed to built madwifi. The 52xx series of cards should be fully supported by the new ath5k driver that comes with the kernel. There should be no need to install madwifi with the 5212 card that you have. Do an lsmod and see what modules are loaded. you should have the following: ath5k mac80211 cfg80211 If these modules are not in the list, you need to: modprobe ath5k. If so, then you should just be able to configure your card with YaST. My Netgear cardbus card uses the 5212/5213 card and works fine with no config needed under 11.0 RC1. Also, KNetworkManager is weird under 11.0. It doesn't show any networks automatically when you right click the wireless icon. You have to highlight "connect to other network" and select "new wireless connection" to even see any signals that are available. It didn't work like that under 10.3 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 9:47 PM, Joe Zien wrote:

I did lsmod and got all three:

ath5k mac80211 cfg80211

Pardon my ignorance but does this mean all three are compiled in the kernel?

No, it means they are compiled into modules which are loaded at run time. lsmod leans list modules. So they are not compiled IN the kernel, but they are compiled into modules. If you look around you will find ath5k.ko That is the loadable module. -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org