Ok, I mentioned before that some people are waiting anxiously for the ftp to go up if it will ever happen. Now SuSE seems to totally not be interested in this due to 'god knows what reasons'. I mean it is their choice. I still think though the option of an ftp install is part of their service and they should not make us wait 3 months for the ftp just so they sell 3 more copies of their product. I am close to deciding not to buy SuSE anymore simply due to the fact that they refuse to put it up on ftp. One of the largest Linux advantages is that you can get your code in multiple ways; NFS, ftp, CD, DVD. I guess we learned from the Napster ordeal that people have a demand for products and service and if the companies don't provide the products we will provide them ourselves. I wonder if anybody out there like myself got an unthrottled 100 Mbit cable modem hooked up right into the university's backbone and thinks about putting the CDs up for ftp as SuSE seems to have goo in their ears. If SuSE continues to delay the release of a product people want, then I would not be surprised if in the future we got unoffical SuSE CD ftp mirrors popping up all over the net. Maybe they already exist and I am not aware of it. Please send me the link then =) mk _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
On Sun, Sep 10, 2000 at 03:26:21AM +0000, Purple Shirt wrote:
I mentioned before that some people are waiting anxiously for the ftp to go up if it will ever happen.
Now SuSE seems to totally not be interested in this due to 'god knows what reasons'. I mean it is their choice. I still think though the option of an ftp install is part of their service and they should not make us wait 3 months for the ftp just so they sell 3 more copies of their product.
What's the background to this ? Are SuSE delaying putting the newest release on ftp for commercial reasons ? Have they done this previously, and what response have you received from them ? Is this something the other distributors do ? Thanks. -- Darren Wyn Rees merlin@netlink.co.uk ASK your ISP to ADD the NEW england.* Newsgroups http://www.england.news-admin.org/accessfaq.html -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
Some distributers put theirs up right away. Others wait a while. Victor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Wyn Rees" <merlin@netlink.co.uk> To: "Purple Shirt" <purpleshirt@hotmail.com> Cc: <suse-linux-e@suse.com> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 12:28 AM Subject: Re: [SLE] supply and demand
On Sun, Sep 10, 2000 at 03:26:21AM +0000, Purple Shirt wrote:
I mentioned before that some people are waiting anxiously for the ftp to go up if it will ever happen.
Now SuSE seems to totally not be interested in this due to 'god knows what reasons'. I mean it is their choice. I still think though the option of an ftp install is part of their service and they should not make us wait 3 months for the ftp just so they sell 3 more copies of their product.
What's the background to this ? Are SuSE delaying putting the newest release on ftp for commercial reasons ? Have they done this previously, and what response have you received from them ?
Is this something the other distributors do ?
Thanks.
-- Darren Wyn Rees merlin@netlink.co.uk ASK your ISP to ADD the NEW england.* Newsgroups http://www.england.news-admin.org/accessfaq.html
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
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Ok,
I mentioned before that some people are waiting anxiously for the ftp to go up if it will ever happen.
Now SuSE seems to totally not be interested in this due to 'god knows what reasons'. I mean it is their choice. I still think though the option of an ftp install is part of their service and they should not make us wait 3 months for the ftp just so they sell 3 more copies of their product.
I am close to deciding not to buy SuSE anymore simply due to the fact that they refuse to put it up on ftp. One of the largest Linux advantages is
SuSE has always delayed putting their distributions up for a couple/few weeks. Why shouldn't they be given the opportunity to make a little money first? I am sorry if the following sounds rude. I do not mean it to as such, but why should they service you if you are not paying for their latest product? Let's be honest, they should support you for the version that you buy, and they do that very well. Why should they go out of their way to accommodate you if you are not a paying customer though? Victor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Purple Shirt" <purpleshirt@hotmail.com> To: <suse-linux-e@suse.com> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 10:26 PM Subject: [SLE] supply and demand that
you can get your code in multiple ways; NFS, ftp, CD, DVD.
I guess we learned from the Napster ordeal that people have a demand for products and service and if the companies don't provide the products we will provide them ourselves.
I wonder if anybody out there like myself got an unthrottled 100 Mbit cable modem hooked up right into the university's backbone and thinks about putting the CDs up for ftp as SuSE seems to have goo in their ears.
If SuSE continues to delay the release of a product people want, then I would not be surprised if in the future we got unoffical SuSE CD ftp mirrors popping up all over the net. Maybe they already exist and I am not aware of it. Please send me the link then =)
mk
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"Victor R. Cardona" wrote:
SuSE has always delayed putting their distributions up for a couple/few weeks. Why shouldn't they be given the opportunity to make a little money first?
I think that's a bunch of crap. Mandrake makes the full developer's version available, and generally makes the ftp version (including iso's) available almost before the official announcement gets out. And lord knows they (Mandrake) is just going bankrupt, what with 30% of the US market and growing, vs. SuSE's ~6%. A lot of that is from the deal Mandrake has w/ MacMillan Publishing, admittedly, and we all have our own opinions on the relative merits of Linux-Mandrake, but the point remains that the 'money' excuse is BS. Mandrake does have the option for crypto -- via download. Apparently that lets them slide thru the cracks in the export barrier that we hear about from SuSE. Considering the relatively small size of the crypto compared to the rest of the distro, you'd think there would be a better way around the export laws than just waiting 6-8 wks, like shipping the whole distro crypto-clean, and making it an added iso image that people can download and install, or something. Monte I -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
On Sun, Sep 10, 2000 at 09:47:37PM -0600, Monte Milanuk wrote:
"Victor R. Cardona" wrote:
SuSE has always delayed putting their distributions up for a couple/few weeks. Why shouldn't they be given the opportunity to make a little money first?
I think that's a bunch of crap. Mandrake makes the full developer's version available, and generally makes the ftp version (including iso's) available almost before the official announcement gets out. And lord knows they (Mandrake) is just going bankrupt, what with 30% of the US market and growing, vs. SuSE's ~6%. A lot of that is from the deal Mandrake has w/ MacMillan Publishing, admittedly, and we all have our own opinions on the relative merits of Linux-Mandrake, but the point remains that the 'money' excuse is BS. Mandrake does have the option for crypto -- via download. Apparently that lets them slide thru the cracks in the export barrier that we hear about from SuSE. Considering the relatively small size of the crypto compared to the rest of the distro, you'd think there would be a better way around the export laws than just waiting 6-8 wks, like shipping the whole distro crypto-clean, and making it an added iso image that people can download and install, or something.
The crypto is not the only thing that slows SuSE down. I am sure that it is not hard for them to exclude the crypto rpms on their U.S. version master. Mandrake is a whole different beast altogether. It was not started as a business. The mandrake developers don't have to deal with distribution since that is done for them by Macmillan. Mandrake has lower development costs because of all the Red Hat code that they borrow. You are comparing apples and oranges here. Victor -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
Monte Milanuk wrote:
And lord knows they (Mandrake) is just going bankrupt, what with 30% of the US market and growing, vs. SuSE's ~6%.
And SuSE's major market is Europe. That's why they service it first. My personal view is: Yes, I will buy the Pro version (about $120 Australian). I still have the full set of 6.4, and will probably hand that over to one of my students as an encouragement award. I will probably then buy the upgrades for the next few releases. Why do I do this? I don't have a mission-critical setup, nor do I do a lot of hacking on new applications. I do this because it is my way of supporting the Open-Source movement. A few of the dollars I spend get used by SuSE to provide support for XFree etc, and that salves my conscience for me, when I am enjoying the work of so many others. Is it such an alien philosophy, that everyone gives a little willingly, so that all can enjoy the outcomes? -- This Email is 100% Virus Free! How do I know? Because no Microsoft products were used to generate it! Regards Don Hansford ECKYTECH COMPUTING/ SQIT Warwick <SuSE Linux 6.4> -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
On Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 07:07:30PM +1000, Don Hansford wrote:
My personal view is: Yes, I will buy the Pro version (about $120 Australian). I still have the full set of 6.4, and will probably hand that over to one of my students as an encouragement award. I will probably then buy the upgrades for the next few releases. Why do I do this? I don't have a mission-critical setup, nor do I do a lot of hacking on new applications. I do this because it is my way of supporting the Open-Source movement. A few of the dollars I spend get used by SuSE to provide support for XFree etc, and that salves my conscience for me, when I am enjoying the work of so many others. Is it such an alien philosophy, that everyone gives a little willingly, so that all can enjoy the outcomes?
Amen! Many people just don't see past SuSE being a company I think. They forget that SuSE does a lot of open source development in the form of kernel patches, supporting new filesystems, advancing standards, Xfree86 development, KDE development, and so on. Victor -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
On Sun, 10 Sep 2000, Monte Milanuk wrote:
"Victor R. Cardona" wrote:
SuSE has always delayed putting their distributions up for a couple/few weeks. Why shouldn't they be given the opportunity to make a little money first?
I think that's a bunch of crap. Mandrake makes the full developer's version available, and generally makes the ftp version (including iso's) available almost before the official announcement gets out. And lord knows they (Mandrake) is just going bankrupt, what with 30% of the US market and growing, vs. SuSE's ~6%. A lot of that is from the deal Mandrake has w/ MacMillan Publishing, admittedly, and we all have our own opinions on the relative merits of Linux-Mandrake, but the point remains that the 'money' excuse is BS. Mandrake does have the option for crypto -- via download. Apparently that lets them slide thru the cracks in the export barrier that we hear about from SuSE. Considering the relatively small size of the crypto compared to the rest of the distro, you'd think there would be a better way around the export laws than just waiting 6-8 wks, like shipping the whole distro crypto-clean, and making it an added iso image that people can download and install, or something.
Monte
FYI I bought Linux Mandrake 6.0 Secure Server Edition at MicroCenter. The same place where I bought SuSE 6.4. The Mandrake Secure Server Edition comes with an Apache built with a single server Advanced Cryptography Licence from RSA, with 128 bit encryption. Included was a $25 discount off a THAWTE certificate. The Mandrake cost $79.99 The Suse 6.4 cost me a meager $29.99 For good measure (not all the same day)... Quake for Linux cost me $39.99 (One game) My Voodoo3 card cost $99.99. Why did I buy Mandrake at $79.99? I wanted to see how they put the server together. (and be able to say I bought a single server licence) Did I switch to Mandrake? No. It's just Redhat. I would get the original if I wanted that. I prefer SuSE as a foundation. However I would pay $79.99 for a secure server edition SuSE. And I use and am familiar with Suse already. I do not believe SuSE have plans for such a server distribution. Thats a Pity. I'd buy it in a heartbeat.. even at $99.99. I guess I'll just buy SuSE 7.0 and hack the server again :) Anyway... back to the point.. I beleive the people who put so much into Linux ought to be compensated in some way for their excellent work. So I bought Quake and a Voodoo3 card too :) All excellect products SuSE, Quake and Voodoo cards :) All work with/on/for Linux, we need to support them. btw, there is built in support for Voodoo3 in 2.4.0 For comparison, consider WinNT. A service pack upgrade is free off the internet, but the CD's cost well over $100. I think someone at MS is already driving around in a car I bought for them. I think it is someones elses turn now. Also there is no (and no plans for) usb support in NT. Also, It all depends how fat your pipe is, or how much value you put on your time, and how you value the efforts of those who make you life more enjoyable (or exciting!!). I'll pay, I don't have the smarts or time to put it together myself. regards, S.T.Ryder mailto:stryder@facestech.com +-------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
On Mon, 11 Sep 2000, S.T.Ryder wrote:
However I would pay $79.99 for a secure server edition SuSE.
That would be nice.
For comparison, consider WinNT. A service pack upgrade is free off the internet, but the CD's cost well over $100.
That's a bit misleading. The SP CDs are $15 last I checked. Greg -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
On Mon, 11 Sep 2000, Greg Thomas wrote:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2000, S.T.Ryder wrote:
However I would pay $79.99 for a secure server edition SuSE.
That would be nice.
Very!!
For comparison, consider WinNT. A service pack upgrade is free off the internet, but the CD's cost well over $100.
That's a bit misleading. The SP CDs are $15 last I checked.
Wow!! I was screwed.. I bought SP4 and it cost me $100+ Maybe it was the IE4.01 and the NT Resource pak that I also got. (duh.. I forgot those) I never bought another one though, that was my final MS purchase.
Greg
S.T.Ryder mailto:stryder@facestech.com +-------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
"S.T.Ryder" wrote:
Did I switch to Mandrake? No. It's just Redhat. I would get the original if I wanted that.
OK, the rest of the message I won't argue w/. Not saying that I agree 100% w/ it, I just don't care enough anymore to argue. But for those of you who pipe up that 'Mandrake is just RedHat' really need to get up to speed. Up to and including 6.0 or 6.1, Yes, Mandrake was basically a value-added, sped-up RedHat. But as of v.7.0, Mandrake has started making some serious changes to things. Sure, the runlevels are the same, and the init files follow the same format, but then so do most (note _most_, not all, for you nit pickers out there) RPM based distros that have any market share to speak of today, w/ the notable exception of SuSE. Mandrake has put significant time and effort into making their linux install and run easier. Some of them are rather rough around the edges in some ways, IMHO, but then there are people on their list, who have told me that 'yast is just evil' ;) Pick yer poison. In any event, Mandrake is getting farther and farther away from being 'just RedHat', and many of their developers would probably bristle at the suggestion. They do take good ideas and incorporate them. But they work on making things better on their own, too. <Rant mode on> I have my 'differences' w/ the Mandrake way of doing things, just as I disagree w/ a little of every project. SuSE probably has the least amount that I find objectional. I just get tired of people saying that Mandrake either a) is just RedHat, or b) does nothing for the community while c) SuSE carries the weight of the Linux world on it's poor back while almost single-handedly developing the kernel w/ all the work they contribute. Before someone goes off the deep end on this, realize that the point I'm making here is that none of these extremes are true. And I'm tired of hearing them, for the little good it does me. <Rant mode off> FWIW, for this thread and others, I will probably wait for the US version of SuSE 7.0 to come out, listen to the praise/complaints on the list, burn an iso and test it on a secondary machine, and then most likely go ahead and buy a boxed professional set, since I do use several packages in the 'pay' series that would be annoying at best to download and get working otherwise, with my extremely limited bandwidth. I apologize for any individual toes I may have stepped on during these little dialogs, but I stand by my position that SuSE as a company needs to either close up the time gap btwn the European and American release, or make ftp access available considerably sooner. Later, Monte -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
I will refer back to my little diatribe the other day and say once more that we do the best we can to make sure the European and U.S. releases are as close to each other as possible, but you must realize that even if we tried to release them the same day..we still have to deal many governments import laws and redtape..so thems the brakes..we do with what we have and we don't have one thing that Mandrake does..McMillian. ;) As for the ISO thing..I will find out an answer ...whether that answer is acceptable or not I can't do anything about or stop any of the bitching about how it's done...but I will try. As far as the Mandrake arguement..who cares..Linux is Linux and we all contribute good or bad to the community and it works for the most part.. --> -->I apologize for any individual toes I may have stepped on during these -->little dialogs, but I stand by my position that SuSE as a company needs -->to either close up the time gap btwn the European and American release, -->or make ftp access available considerably sooner. --> -- Cheers, Ben Rosenberg mailto:ben@whack.org ------------------------- Warning to the Human Race: Objects in mirror are dumber than they appear. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
Ben Rosenberg <ben@whack.org> wrote:
I will refer back to my little diatribe the other day and say once more that we do the best we can to make sure the European and U.S. releases are as close to each other as possible, but you must realize that even if we tried to release them the same day..we still have to deal many governments import laws and redtape..so thems the brakes..we do with what we have and we don't have one thing that Mandrake does..McMillian. ;)
Yes,, on the money.
As for the ISO thing..I will find out an answer ...whether that answer is acceptable or not I can't do anything about or stop any of the bitching about how it's done...but I will try.
Thanks, many of us appreciate your help without saying so.
As far as the Mandrake arguement..who cares..Linux is Linux and we all contribute good or bad to the community and it works for the most part..
Well said, good form. Best Regards /Dee -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
participants (9)
-
ben＠whack.org -
deem＠wdm.com -
donh＠halenet.com.au -
ethant＠pacificnet.net -
merlin＠netlink.co.uk -
milanuk＠yahoo.com -
purpleshirt＠hotmail.com -
stryder＠facestech.com -
vcardona＠home.com