[opensuse] Simple html editor?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I have not done this in ages, so is there a simple html editor (WYSIWYG)? I think I used one long ago, blue something perhaps. My start menu suggests seamonkey composer, that's heavy. I just need descriptive text and clickable links. I know I can do this in plain text, but I wonder at something WYSIWYG. Similar to composer, but simpler/smaller. - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHoEARECADoWIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCX5xk3Bwccm9iaW4ubGlz dGFzQHRlbGVmb25pY2EubmV0AAoJELUzGBxtjUfVqQEAn0cR05oKxnllR/0LEE3X C1UpRHxaAJwPmkQZWPHbDGmtnJqKqtxtzD0KHA== =rRxy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
It is not the answer you need to your question. But it's very good Geany Para Bootstrap 4 https://www.layoutit.com/build Saludos Carlos El vie., 30 de oct. de 2020 a la(s) 13:09, Carlos E. R. (robin.listas@telefonica.net) escribió:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
I have not done this in ages, so is there a simple html editor (WYSIWYG)?
I think I used one long ago, blue something perhaps.
My start menu suggests seamonkey composer, that's heavy.
I just need descriptive text and clickable links. I know I can do this in plain text, but I wonder at something WYSIWYG. Similar to composer, but simpler/smaller.
- -- Cheers
Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
iHoEARECADoWIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCX5xk3Bwccm9iaW4ubGlz dGFzQHRlbGVmb25pY2EubmV0AAoJELUzGBxtjUfVqQEAn0cR05oKxnllR/0LEE3X C1UpRHxaAJwPmkQZWPHbDGmtnJqKqtxtzD0KHA== =rRxy -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-- Saludos, cheperobert -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op vrijdag 30 oktober 2020 20:09:16 CET schreef Carlos E. R.:
I have not done this in ages, so is there a simple html editor (WYSIWYG)?
I think I used one long ago, blue something perhaps.
My start menu suggests seamonkey composer, that's heavy.
I just need descriptive text and clickable links. I know I can do this in plain text, but I wonder at something WYSIWYG. Similar to composer, but simpler/smaller.
-- Cheers
Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) In TW there's still Bluefish
-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 30/10/2020 20.33, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
Op vrijdag 30 oktober 2020 20:09:16 CET schreef Carlos E. R.:
I have not done this in ages, so is there a simple html editor (WYSIWYG)?
I think I used one long ago, blue something perhaps.
My start menu suggests seamonkey composer, that's heavy.
I just need descriptive text and clickable links. I know I can do this in plain text, but I wonder at something WYSIWYG. Similar to composer, but simpler/smaller.
In TW there's still Bluefish
Leap too, but I could not rememeber the name, thanks. Installing. [...] Huh, not what I remembered. I tried also Geany. And then I tried Seamonkey composer, which is heavy but does exactly what I wanted to do, so I will use it as it already installed in this computer. I thought I'd find something smaller. The html it generates is very simple, no issues: +++................. <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> <title>test</title> </head> <body> Ancient Rome in 20 minutes<br> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46ZXl-V4qwY&feature=youtu.be">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46ZXl-V4qwY</a><br> <br> Buenismo Bien | 1x02 | Sanidad<br> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzGSKLstQk4">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzGSKLstQk4</a><br> <br> </body> </html> .................++- There is Libre Office Writer, of course. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 10/30/20 2:09 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I have not done this in ages, so is there a simple html editor (WYSIWYG)?
I think I used one long ago, blue something perhaps.
My start menu suggests seamonkey composer, that's heavy.
Always found WYSIWYG web editors more trouble than they are worth. In 1/2 the time you would spend fighting with some WYSIWYG object, you can just open a text editor and have w3schools.com open in your browser and write a conforming page. w3schools has a short tutorial for each aspect of web development (html, php, javascript, etc...) and you can probably do what you need after browsing whatever tutorial you need. (now if you are doing some heavy data handling behind the scenes, you will also need the PHP Manual, or whatever handles your data -- but then again, a WYSIWYG won't do any of that anyway) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 30/10/2020 20:09, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
I have not done this in ages, so is there a simple html editor (WYSIWYG)?
I think I used one long ago, blue something perhaps.
My start menu suggests seamonkey composer, that's heavy.
I just need descriptive text and clickable links. I know I can do this in plain text, but I wonder at something WYSIWYG. Similar to composer, but simpler/smaller.
There is BlueGriffon, created by the guy who did Nvu, which was forked as Kompozer. http://bluegriffon.org/ However, the developer was always a bit of an arse and never provided it as anything other than .deb files for Ubuntu. Years ago I asked about this but never got a reply. I don't see it on OBS, and last time I tried to run - wherever I got it from a long time back - it had glitches and errors. gumb -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 30/10/2020 21:20, gumb wrote:
There is BlueGriffon, created by the guy who did Nvu, which was forked as Kompozer. http://bluegriffon.org/
However, the developer was always a bit of an arse and never provided it as anything other than .deb files for Ubuntu. Years ago I asked about this but never got a reply. I don't see it on OBS, and last time I tried to run - wherever I got it from a long time back - it had glitches and errors.
I've just remembered there is an appimage of Bluegriffon, here: https://www.linux-apps.com/p/1225704 gumb
On 11/11/2020 12:03, gumb wrote:
I've just remembered there is an appimage of Bluegriffon, here: https://www.linux-apps.com/p/1225704
Arf! No, for some reason it has been removed from that site and only the .deb files remain. I've found an appimage of it here instead: https://www.ubuntubuzz.com/2018/08/15-gnulinux-text-editor-and-ide-apps-in-a... gumb
Fri, 30 Oct 2020 20:09:16 +0100 (CET) időpontban Carlos E. R. írta:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
I have not done this in ages, so is there a simple html editor (WYSIWYG)?
I think I used one long ago, blue something perhaps.
My start menu suggests seamonkey composer, that's heavy.
I just need descriptive text and clickable links. I know I can do this in plain text, but I wonder at something WYSIWYG. Similar to composer, but simpler/smaller.
I have a list of simple html editors saved in 2013, so some might be unavailable by now. Amaya Aptana Bluefish Mozilla Seamonkey Composer Quanta Plus Arachnophilia BlueGriffon Cheers, Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 23:09:49 +0100 Istvan Gabor wrote: 8< - - - - - snipped - - - - - >8
Quanta Plus 8< - - - - - snipped - - - - - >8
I *loved* the text handling side of this program a great deal more than the (always buggy) WYSIWYG side. Only when development ceased did I learn that the text handling side was actually Kate, embedded by plugin. I switched to Kate, then gedit, then back to Kate, and, Kate is *still* my favorite GUI text editor today. Thanks for the bout of nostalgia, Istvan! :) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 30/10/2020 23.09, Istvan Gabor wrote:
Fri, 30 Oct 2020 20:09:16 +0100 (CET) időpontban Carlos E. R. írta:
I have not done this in ages, so is there a simple html editor (WYSIWYG)?
I think I used one long ago, blue something perhaps.
My start menu suggests seamonkey composer, that's heavy.
I just need descriptive text and clickable links. I know I can do this in plain text, but I wonder at something WYSIWYG. Similar to composer, but simpler/smaller.
I have a list of simple html editors saved in 2013, so some might be unavailable by now.
Amaya Aptana Bluefish Mozilla Seamonkey Composer Quanta Plus Arachnophilia BlueGriffon
Thankyou everybody for your ideas, I will loot at them all, if installable. For the moment I'm using "Mozilla Seamonkey Composer", because it is simple enough to use albeit big. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 10/30/20 5:09 PM, Istvan Gabor wrote:
Fri, 30 Oct 2020 20:09:16 +0100 (CET) időpontban Carlos E. R. írta:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
I have not done this in ages, so is there a simple html editor (WYSIWYG)?
I think I used one long ago, blue something perhaps.
My start menu suggests seamonkey composer, that's heavy.
I just need descriptive text and clickable links. I know I can do this in plain text, but I wonder at something WYSIWYG. Similar to composer, but simpler/smaller.
I have a list of simple html editors saved in 2013, so some might be unavailable by now.
Quanta Plus
Quanta was a fantastic html/php editor (basically kate with additional syntax modules. My web sites still has attribution to it: Still use it at times :) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
On 31/10/2020 09.53, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 10/30/20 5:09 PM, Istvan Gabor wrote:
Fri, 30 Oct 2020 20:09:16 +0100 (CET) időpontban Carlos E. R. írta:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
I have not done this in ages, so is there a simple html editor (WYSIWYG)?
I think I used one long ago, blue something perhaps.
My start menu suggests seamonkey composer, that's heavy.
I just need descriptive text and clickable links. I know I can do this in plain text, but I wonder at something WYSIWYG. Similar to composer, but simpler/smaller.
I have a list of simple html editors saved in 2013, so some might be unavailable by now.
Quanta Plus
Quanta was a fantastic html/php editor (basically kate with additional syntax modules. My web sites still has attribution to it:
Still use it at times :)
Telcontar:~ # zypper install kde3-quanta Loading repository data... Reading installed packages... Resolving package dependencies... The following 4 NEW packages are going to be installed: kde3-kommander-runtime kde3-quanta kdesdk3 kdewebdev3 The following recommended package was automatically selected: kdewebdev3 4 new packages to install. Overall download size: 8.7 MiB. Already cached: 0 B. After the operation, additional 30.1 MiB will be used. Continue? [y/n/v/...? shows all options] (y): It appears that I used it in the past, it has memory (recent files) of an html file I edited on 2007, but complains of something (DTD not known to me or similar). Ok, I open the current file. Not bad, but can't cope with utf-8 chars. shows "Baden-W�rttemberg", "What�s Next"... -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On Sat, 31 Oct 2020 11:13:36 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote: 8< - - - - - snipped - - - - - >8
It appears that I used it in the past, it has memory (recent files) of an html file I edited on 2007, but complains of something (DTD not known to me or similar).
Ok, I open the current file. Not bad, but can't cope with utf-8 chars.
shows "Baden-W�rttemberg", "What�s Next"...
I only ever saw this after opening files I'd received from clients who were running Windows. I'd refer them to EditPad Lite (an end-of-line marker + utf-8 / windows-1252 etc. character set aware 'drop in' replacement for Notepad.) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 31/10/2020 15.25, Carl Hartung wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2020 11:13:36 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
8< - - - - - snipped - - - - - >8
It appears that I used it in the past, it has memory (recent files) of an html file I edited on 2007, but complains of something (DTD not known to me or similar).
Ok, I open the current file. Not bad, but can't cope with utf-8 chars.
shows "Baden-W�rttemberg", "What�s Next"...
I only ever saw this after opening files I'd received from clients who were running Windows. I'd refer them to EditPad Lite (an end-of-line marker + utf-8 / windows-1252 etc. character set aware 'drop in' replacement for Notepad.)
Apparently Composer created the file using 1252 (I don't know if I can alter that), and Quanta can not cope with it. <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"> </head> It seems that I can not convert it to UTF, but I can create a new file in unicode: <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> and then paste the text over, and it holds. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
El sáb., 31 de oct. de 2020 a la(s) 04:13, Carlos E. R. (robin.listas@telefonica.net) escribió:
On 31/10/2020 09.53, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 10/30/20 5:09 PM, Istvan Gabor wrote:
Fri, 30 Oct 2020 20:09:16 +0100 (CET) időpontban Carlos E. R. írta:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
I have not done this in ages, so is there a simple html editor (WYSIWYG)?
I think I used one long ago, blue something perhaps.
My start menu suggests seamonkey composer, that's heavy.
I just need descriptive text and clickable links. I know I can do this in plain text, but I wonder at something WYSIWYG. Similar to composer, but simpler/smaller.
I have a list of simple html editors saved in 2013, so some might be unavailable by now.
Quanta Plus
Quanta was a fantastic html/php editor (basically kate with additional syntax modules. My web sites still has attribution to it:
Still use it at times :)
Telcontar:~ # zypper install kde3-quanta Loading repository data... Reading installed packages... Resolving package dependencies...
The following 4 NEW packages are going to be installed: kde3-kommander-runtime kde3-quanta kdesdk3 kdewebdev3
The following recommended package was automatically selected: kdewebdev3
4 new packages to install. Overall download size: 8.7 MiB. Already cached: 0 B. After the operation, additional 30.1 MiB will be used. Continue? [y/n/v/...? shows all options] (y):
It appears that I used it in the past, it has memory (recent files) of an html file I edited on 2007, but complains of something (DTD not known to me or similar).
Ok, I open the current file. Not bad, but can't cope with utf-8 chars.
shows "Baden-W�rttemberg", "What�s Next"...
Why better not use something more recent and stop struggling with those programs, which no longer received updates.
-- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
-- Saludos, cheperobert -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 31/10/2020 16.27, José Roberto Alas wrote:
El sáb., 31 de oct. de 2020 a la(s) 04:13, Carlos E. R. () escribió:
I have a list of simple html editors saved in 2013, so some might be unavailable by now.
Quanta Plus
Quanta was a fantastic html/php editor (basically kate with additional syntax modules. My web sites still has attribution to it:
...
Ok, I open the current file. Not bad, but can't cope with utf-8 chars.
shows "Baden-W�rttemberg", "What�s Next"...
Why better not use something more recent and stop struggling with those programs, which no longer received updates.
If you can suggest a WYSIWYG modern html editor, I'm game. So far, I have only seen three: Mozilla Composer (probably maintained) and Quanta (maybe not maintained), and Libre Office Writer. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Le 31/10/2020 à 19:21, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
If you can suggest a WYSIWYG modern html editor, I'm game.
but it's still nearly a nonsense. What is WYSIWYG in the web. Seen by whom? jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 31/10/2020 23.35, jdd@dodin.org wrote:
Le 31/10/2020 à 19:21, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
If you can suggest a WYSIWYG modern html editor, I'm game.
but it's still nearly a nonsense. What is WYSIWYG in the web. Seen by whom?
I do not want to see the <codes>. I want to say "I want to set bold letter", and see bold letters. Same as I do in LO. And yes, Composer from SeaMonkey does it all quite well - I just do not need the mail, the web browser, etc. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On Sat, 31 Oct 2020 19:21:29 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
If you can suggest a WYSIWYG modern html editor, I'm game.
So far, I have only seen three: Mozilla Composer (probably maintained) and Quanta (maybe not maintained), and Libre Office Writer.
Bluefish is still around, and works well. -- Bob Williams System: Linux 5.3.18-lp152.47-default Desktop: KDE Frameworks: 5.71.0, Qt: 5.12.7 and Plasma: 5.18.5 https://useplaintext.email/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/1/20 10:19 AM, Bob Williams wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2020 19:21:29 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
If you can suggest a WYSIWYG modern html editor, I'm game.
So far, I have only seen three: Mozilla Composer (probably maintained) and Quanta (maybe not maintained), and Libre Office Writer. Bluefish is still around, and works well.
Bluefish is not WYSIWYG. WYSIWYG editors suck in general and create horrible web pages but for the uneducated .......... -- There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo. Please use in that order. The soap box represents exercising one's right to freedom of speech to influence politics to defend liberty. The ballot box represents exercising one's right to vote to elect a government which defends liberty. The jury box represents using jury nullification to refuse to convict someone being prosecuted for breaking an unjust law that decreases liberty. The ammo box represents exercising one's right to keep and bear arms to oppose, in armed conflict, a government that decreases liberty. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, 1 Nov 2020 10:44:08 -0600 Bill Walsh wrote: 8< - - - - - snipped - - - - - >8
On 11/1/20 10:19 AM, Bob Williams wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2020 19:21:29 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
If you can suggest a WYSIWYG modern html editor, I'm game.
So far, I have only seen three: Mozilla Composer (probably maintained) and Quanta (maybe not maintained), and Libre Office Writer. Bluefish is still around, and works well.
Bluefish is not WYSIWYG.
WYSIWYG editors suck in general and create horrible web pages but for the uneducated ..........
That's a very broad brush you're painting with today, Bill. :) IMHO, this thread has been discussing what I'd describe as 'earlier' or 'first generation' efforts. There have been (can continue to be) others: Pingendo https://pingendo.com/ ... pinegrow https://pinegrow.com/ ... Bootstrap Studio https://bootstrapstudio.io/ ... Light Table https://lighttable.com/ Not, technically, a 'WYSIWYG' per se, but like Quanta Plus, it allows you to instantly view changes to code and variables as you're editing them. Demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52SVAMM3V78 ... ReText https://github.com/retext-project/retext/wiki/FAQ ... Leo - "... a PIM, IDE and outliner that accelerates the work flow of programmers, authors and web designers." http://leoeditor.com/ Leo has spawned "LeoVue" https://kaleguy.github.io/leovue/#dashboard I personally think that experimenting with a great many 'mechanical' code generators and over a long period of time ultimately makes you a much better markup editor and programmer. :) regards, Carl -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/1/20 11:48 AM, Carl Hartung wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2020 10:44:08 -0600 Bill Walsh wrote: 8< - - - - - snipped - - - - - >8
On 11/1/20 10:19 AM, Bob Williams wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2020 19:21:29 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
If you can suggest a WYSIWYG modern html editor, I'm game.
So far, I have only seen three: Mozilla Composer (probably maintained) and Quanta (maybe not maintained), and Libre Office Writer. Bluefish is still around, and works well.
Bluefish is not WYSIWYG.
WYSIWYG editors suck in general and create horrible web pages but for the uneducated .......... That's a very broad brush you're painting with today, Bill. :) IMHO, this thread has been discussing what I'd describe as 'earlier' or 'first generation' efforts. There have been (can continue to be) others:
Pingendo https://pingendo.com/
...
pinegrow https://pinegrow.com/
...
Bootstrap Studio https://bootstrapstudio.io/
...
Light Table https://lighttable.com/
Not, technically, a 'WYSIWYG' per se, but like Quanta Plus, it allows you to instantly view changes to code and variables as you're editing them. Demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52SVAMM3V78
...
ReText https://github.com/retext-project/retext/wiki/FAQ
...
Leo - "... a PIM, IDE and outliner that accelerates the work flow of programmers, authors and web designers." http://leoeditor.com/
Leo has spawned "LeoVue" https://kaleguy.github.io/leovue/#dashboard
I personally think that experimenting with a great many 'mechanical' code generators and over a long period of time ultimately makes you a much better markup editor and programmer. :)
regards,
Carl
I have tried Multiple WYSIWYG editors over the years. ALL of them created terrible HTML. I wrote my first page with a listing of probably twenty or thirty HTML tags available at the time and a text editor. There were no HTML editors, or WYSIWYG editors. Later a friend that only used a WYSIWYG editor and bragged about it. I took her page and removed over half the tags and you couldn't tell looking in a browser. Every one I have tried over the years were much the same. They all start out with a set of prearranged tags and then add whatever you add. The latest fad is using blogging editors to create pages -- There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo. Please use in that order. The soap box represents exercising one's right to freedom of speech to influence politics to defend liberty. The ballot box represents exercising one's right to vote to elect a government which defends liberty. The jury box represents using jury nullification to refuse to convict someone being prosecuted for breaking an unjust law that decreases liberty. The ammo box represents exercising one's right to keep and bear arms to oppose, in armed conflict, a government that decreases liberty. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, 1 Nov 2020 12:44:33 -0600 Bill Walsh wrote: 8< - - - - - snipped - - - - - >8
I have tried Multiple WYSIWYG editors over the years. ALL of them created terrible HTML. I wrote my first page with a listing of probably twenty or thirty HTML tags available at the time and a text editor. There were no HTML editors, or WYSIWYG editors. Later a friend that only used a WYSIWYG editor and bragged about it. I took her page and removed over half the tags and you couldn't tell looking in a browser. Every one I have tried over the years were much the same. They all start out with a set of prearranged tags and then add whatever you add.
The latest fad is using blogging editors to create pages
You've actually proved my point. :) Somewhere along this journey, it dawns on you that creating the code by hand is often faster and easier than employing a WYSIWYG then cleaning up the code. YMMV, but in my experience, this is mostly true for shorter documents. Longer documents are often easier to clean up after being encoded by a WYSIWYG than they are to create, from scratch, by hand. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/11/2020 17.44, Bill Walsh wrote:
On 11/1/20 10:19 AM, Bob Williams wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2020 19:21:29 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
If you can suggest a WYSIWYG modern html editor, I'm game.
So far, I have only seen three: Mozilla Composer (probably maintained) and Quanta (maybe not maintained), and Libre Office Writer. Bluefish is still around, and works well.
Bluefish is not WYSIWYG.
WYSIWYG editors suck in general and create horrible web pages but for the uneducated ..........
To maintain a list of links with descriptive text, they are perfect. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 11/1/20 11:59 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 01/11/2020 17.44, Bill Walsh wrote:
On 11/1/20 10:19 AM, Bob Williams wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2020 19:21:29 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
If you can suggest a WYSIWYG modern html editor, I'm game.
So far, I have only seen three: Mozilla Composer (probably maintained) and Quanta (maybe not maintained), and Libre Office Writer. Bluefish is still around, and works well.
Bluefish is not WYSIWYG.
WYSIWYG editors suck in general and create horrible web pages but for the uneducated ..........
To maintain a list of links with descriptive text, they are perfect.
Do it as a database and convert to HTML. HTML will still suck but simple and you already have what you need. -- There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo. Please use in that order. The soap box represents exercising one's right to freedom of speech to influence politics to defend liberty. The ballot box represents exercising one's right to vote to elect a government which defends liberty. The jury box represents using jury nullification to refuse to convict someone being prosecuted for breaking an unjust law that decreases liberty. The ammo box represents exercising one's right to keep and bear arms to oppose, in armed conflict, a government that decreases liberty. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/11/2020 19.46, Bill Walsh wrote:
On 11/1/20 11:59 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 01/11/2020 17.44, Bill Walsh wrote:
On 11/1/20 10:19 AM, Bob Williams wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2020 19:21:29 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
If you can suggest a WYSIWYG modern html editor, I'm game.
So far, I have only seen three: Mozilla Composer (probably maintained) and Quanta (maybe not maintained), and Libre Office Writer. Bluefish is still around, and works well.
Bluefish is not WYSIWYG.
WYSIWYG editors suck in general and create horrible web pages but for the uneducated ..........
To maintain a list of links with descriptive text, they are perfect.
Do it as a database and convert to HTML. HTML will still suck but simple and you already have what you need.
Too much work that I have no idea how to do. If someone creates something already done that I can reuse, fine :-) I know how to edit documents, and that's all I need. I'm not going to publish it, it is private. It is just sections like this and a table of contents (automatically generated). If it gets too big, I might separate the sections on files. +++····················· Industria ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxLb3Yqqds4 SCREAMING JIMMY! 16cyl 2 Stroke Detroit Diesel 16v71 Wide Open #FullSend Trenes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AYtD1c-QrE Driver's View... ODONTOTOS rack railway Diakofto - Kalavryta - Οδοντωτός [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogRGlNpjSLc 3 steam locomotives with freight train, exit Oberrohn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RsAl1t9cWU The most beautiful/loudest steam engine sound I have ever heard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-BcOyBp6R0 CN 9000 F3 at Alberta Railway Museum May 17 2015 - startup, cab ride, drone shots, ·····················++- To add one item, I just paste the text and the link from the email I got it from; select the URL, ctrl-K and it is converted to a link. Done in seconds. I can add photos if I wish. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 10/31/20 5:13 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
It appears that I used it in the past, it has memory (recent files) of an html file I edited on 2007, but complains of something (DTD not known to me or similar).
Ok, I open the current file. Not bad, but can't cope with utf-8 chars.
shows "Baden-W�rttemberg", "What�s Next"...
Anymore, All I care about is a multi-document interface (like kate), so I can have the .html, .php, .js and any other needed files open at once. I like kate just as well as Quanta (the syntax highlighting is just as good), the only thing missing is tag-completion, and similar type addons. But honestly, I don't find that I miss it. Indentation will keep your tag-nesting straight. The only reason I harp on kate so much is that it saves sessions with as many documents as your project has (when I was building TDE for Arch I had a session with 128 build file). And, kate will open them remotely over ssh (though now you have to tweak your sshd config to allow opening more than then default 15? or so files simultaneously) Vim is also fine as an html editor. The only reason I don't use it on my projects is I'm more comfortable with kate's document list in the left pane than cycling through all the open buffers in vim (I tend to have to work at that) Let us know what you find if you like it a lot. Like I said (it's been a while) but I tried all the latest WYSIWYG tools and I always found them far more trouble than they were worth, or I would have to spend more time cleaning up the awkward, non-conforming, way they would render tables, etc.. to html with the jumbled .css style information. Far cleaner to spend an hour at w3schools and write a style-sheet that you can apply as classes to your tags. The only thing I find I have to spend time on is what a WYSIWYG editor wouldn't help with to begin with, like how to write the more in-depth routines like your post-redirect-get with form to prevent double-submit problems, or actually using PHP classes instead of writing strictly procedural code, etc... That's just the stuff you will have to spend time learning no matter what you use. And whatever you have to do that is backend related, do it in PHP. Remember anyone smart enough to know that Firefox is bundled with developer tools can see (and change) every bit of javascript or html you write.... -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
On 02/11/2020 07.07, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 10/31/20 5:13 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
It appears that I used it in the past, it has memory (recent files) of an html file I edited on 2007, but complains of something (DTD not known to me or similar).
Ok, I open the current file. Not bad, but can't cope with utf-8 chars.
shows "Baden-W�rttemberg", "What�s Next"...
Anymore,
All I care about is a multi-document interface (like kate), so I can have the .html, .php, .js and any other needed files open at once. I like kate just as well as Quanta (the syntax highlighting is just as good), the only thing missing is tag-completion, and similar type addons. But honestly, I don't find that I miss it. Indentation will keep your tag-nesting straight.
The only reason I harp on kate so much is that it saves sessions with as many documents as your project has (when I was building TDE for Arch I had a session with 128 build file). And, kate will open them remotely over ssh (though now you have to tweak your sshd config to allow opening more than then default 15? or so files simultaneously)
Vim is also fine as an html editor. The only reason I don't use it on my projects is I'm more comfortable with kate's document list in the left pane than cycling through all the open buffers in vim (I tend to have to work at that)
Let us know what you find if you like it a lot. Like I said (it's been a while) but I tried all the latest WYSIWYG tools and I always found them far more trouble than they were worth, or I would have to spend more time cleaning up the awkward, non-conforming, way they would render tables, etc.. to html with the jumbled .css style information. Far cleaner to spend an hour at w3schools and write a style-sheet that you can apply as classes to your tags.
The only thing I find I have to spend time on is what a WYSIWYG editor wouldn't help with to begin with, like how to write the more in-depth routines like your post-redirect-get with form to prevent double-submit problems, or actually using PHP classes instead of writing strictly procedural code, etc... That's just the stuff you will have to spend time learning no matter what you use.
And whatever you have to do that is backend related, do it in PHP. Remember anyone smart enough to know that Firefox is bundled with developer tools can see (and change) every bit of javascript or html you write....
I only do a single html file. I know nothing about tags, styles, I don't want to, and I don't need to. I just want to write a document (that happens to have links to youtube videos), same as I do in *office, only that the document is not .doc but .html and the browser can render it. Or apache. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Op maandag 2 november 2020 10:46:47 CET schreef Carlos E. R.:
On 02/11/2020 07.07, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 10/31/20 5:13 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
It appears that I used it in the past, it has memory (recent files) of an html file I edited on 2007, but complains of something (DTD not known to me or similar).
Ok, I open the current file. Not bad, but can't cope with utf-8 chars.
shows "Baden-W�rttemberg", "What�s Next"...
Anymore,
All I care about is a multi-document interface (like kate), so I can have
the .html, .php, .js and any other needed files open at once. I like kate just as well as Quanta (the syntax highlighting is just as good), the only thing missing is tag-completion, and similar type addons. But honestly, I don't find that I miss it. Indentation will keep your tag-nesting straight.
The only reason I harp on kate so much is that it saves sessions with as
many documents as your project has (when I was building TDE for Arch I had a session with 128 build file). And, kate will open them remotely over ssh (though now you have to tweak your sshd config to allow opening more than then default 15? or so files simultaneously)
Vim is also fine as an html editor. The only reason I don't use it on my
projects is I'm more comfortable with kate's document list in the left pane than cycling through all the open buffers in vim (I tend to have to work at that)> Let us know what you find if you like it a lot. Like I said (it's been a
while) but I tried all the latest WYSIWYG tools and I always found them far more trouble than they were worth, or I would have to spend more time cleaning up the awkward, non-conforming, way they would render tables, etc.. to html with the jumbled .css style information. Far cleaner to spend an hour at w3schools and write a style-sheet that you can apply as classes to your tags.> The only thing I find I have to spend time on is what a WYSIWYG editor
wouldn't help with to begin with, like how to write the more in-depth routines like your post-redirect-get with form to prevent double-submit problems, or actually using PHP classes instead of writing strictly procedural code, etc... That's just the stuff you will have to spend time learning no matter what you use.> And whatever you have to do that is backend related, do it in PHP. Remember
anyone smart enough to know that Firefox is bundled with developer tools can see (and change) every bit of javascript or html you write....
I only do a single html file. I know nothing about tags, styles, I don't want to, and I don't need to. I just want to write a document (that happens to have links to youtube videos), same as I do in *office, only that the document is not .doc but .html and the browser can render it. Or apache. Why not use LO Writer for such a job, you can Save As ... html
-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 02/11/2020 10.56, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
Op maandag 2 november 2020 10:46:47 CET schreef Carlos E. R.:
I only do a single html file. I know nothing about tags, styles, I don't want to, and I don't need to. I just want to write a document (that happens to have links to youtube videos), same as I do in *office, only that the document is not .doc but .html and the browser can render it. Or apache. Why not use LO Writer for such a job, you can Save As ... html
I tried it, and Composer seems to do it better/easier. I can easily have a look at the html it generates if I want to, for instance. But yes, I could just use lowrite (it complains when saving not in odf). It doesn't generate a correct table of contents, as it adds page numbers, but that I can probably adjust (I tried removing the page numbers, and then the resulting table is not clickable). I just thought there would be more programs (and smaller) that would do this kind of thing. It is curious that is not the case. It is also curious that Seamonkey keeps the composer, but Firefox/Thunderbird doesn't. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Op 02-11-2020 om 11:36 schreef Carlos E. R.: [...]
But yes, I could just use lowrite (it complains when saving not in odf). It doesn't generate a correct table of contents, as it adds page numbers [...]
In Writer, you shouldn't do a 'save as', but instead 'Export'. When exporting, change the filter (below) to XHTML. Y'll get a nice "XHTML 1.1 plus MathML 2.0" (it validates!). (You can even replace that with HTML Strict 1.0.) -- Harrie -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 02/11/2020 19.45, Harrie Baken wrote:
Op 02-11-2020 om 11:36 schreef Carlos E. R.: [...]
But yes, I could just use lowrite (it complains when saving not in odf). It doesn't generate a correct table of contents, as it adds page numbers [...]
In Writer, you shouldn't do a 'save as', but instead 'Export'. When exporting, change the filter (below) to XHTML.
Y'll get a nice "XHTML 1.1 plus MathML 2.0" (it validates!). (You can even replace that with HTML Strict 1.0.)
Is that better than Composer? I have no idea what the advantages of XHTML may be. Does Apache/Firefox render that directly? In Composer I simply click the save button. Then I go to Firefox in another machine in the LAN and click "refresh" and I see the modified page. Very simple. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Op maandag 2 november 2020 19:52:12 CET schreef Carlos E. R.:
On 02/11/2020 19.45, Harrie Baken wrote:
Op 02-11-2020 om 11:36 schreef Carlos E. R.: [...]
But yes, I could just use lowrite (it complains when saving not in odf). It doesn't generate a correct table of contents, as it adds page numbers
[...]
In Writer, you shouldn't do a 'save as', but instead 'Export'. When exporting, change the filter (below) to XHTML.
Y'll get a nice "XHTML 1.1 plus MathML 2.0" (it validates!). (You can even replace that with HTML Strict 1.0.)
Is that better than Composer? I have no idea what the advantages of XHTML may be. Does Apache/Firefox render that directly?
In Composer I simply click the save button. Then I go to Firefox in another machine in the LAN and click "refresh" and I see the modified page. Very simple. Why don't you try first instead of returning with another question. People have suggested many things, that all will work, and you keep doubting everything. Put 2 links in a file, test it, use it. YAET ( Yet Another Endless Thread ).
-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 02/11/2020 20.07, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
Op maandag 2 november 2020 19:52:12 CET schreef Carlos E. R.:
On 02/11/2020 19.45, Harrie Baken wrote:
Op 02-11-2020 om 11:36 schreef Carlos E. R.: [...]
But yes, I could just use lowrite (it complains when saving not in odf). It doesn't generate a correct table of contents, as it adds page numbers
[...]
In Writer, you shouldn't do a 'save as', but instead 'Export'. When exporting, change the filter (below) to XHTML.
Y'll get a nice "XHTML 1.1 plus MathML 2.0" (it validates!). (You can even replace that with HTML Strict 1.0.)
Is that better than Composer? I have no idea what the advantages of XHTML may be. Does Apache/Firefox render that directly?
In Composer I simply click the save button. Then I go to Firefox in another machine in the LAN and click "refresh" and I see the modified page. Very simple. Why don't you try first instead of returning with another question. People have suggested many things, that all will work, and you keep doubting everything. Put 2 links in a file, test it, use it. YAET ( Yet Another Endless Thread ).
You are looking at it wrong. I like composer, and I asked for programs similar to it, that's all. I do not want anything different, so please don't insist. But as you do insist, I will try. cer@Telcontar:~> l /srv/www/home/cer/index* -rwxr-xr-x 1 cer users 12159 Oct 31 19:36 /srv/www/home/cer/index.bak* -rwxr-xr-x 1 cer root 12740 Nov 2 18:50 /srv/www/home/cer/index.html* # Composer -rw-r--r-- 1 cer users 15668 Nov 2 11:24 /srv/www/home/cer/index_lo.html # Libre Office -rw-r--r-- 1 cer users 18764 Nov 2 22:06 /srv/www/home/cer/index_x.html # Libre Office export as XHTML cer@Telcontar:~> Sorry, but I don't see the advantage. Each time I have to open index.html, do the modifications, then export as XHTML file index_x.html. It is a bigger file, and I don't see the advantage to using composer and click save. As to the generated code, after the preamble it is a huge single line of code. Am sorry, but this is better... how? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 02/11/2020 05:36, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I tried it, and Composer seems to do it better/easier. I can easily have a look at the html it generates if I want to, for instance. But yes, I could just use lowrite (it complains when saving not in odf). It doesn't generate a correct table of contents, as it adds page numbers, but that I can probably adjust (I tried removing the page numbers, and then the resulting table is not clickable).
Does it do that if you invoke it as 'loweb' rather than 'lowriter' ? -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/11/2020 13.50, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 02/11/2020 05:36, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I tried it, and Composer seems to do it better/easier. I can easily have a look at the html it generates if I want to, for instance. But yes, I could just use lowrite (it complains when saving not in odf). It doesn't generate a correct table of contents, as it adds page numbers, but that I can probably adjust (I tried removing the page numbers, and then the resulting table is not clickable).
Does it do that if you invoke it as 'loweb' rather than 'lowriter' ?
Huh? No idea it existed. Trying. If I type "loweb" I get a small window that asks: Choose SSH server Browsing for services on local network eth0 IPv6 Isengard eth0 IPv4 Isengard eth0 IPv6 Telcontar eth0 IPv4 Telcontar I select one, then it dies. I try again from a terminal, I get no ssh dialog, and it runs. The menu "insert" is missing the entry "table of contents", which I use in "composer". Otherwise, it works nicely. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 04/11/2020 05:03, Carlos E. R. wrote:
If I type "loweb" I get a small window that asks:
Type where, cost I can't replicate that. -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/2/20 3:46 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I only do a single html file. I know nothing about tags, styles, I don't want to, and I don't need to. I just want to write a document (that happens to have links to youtube videos), same as I do in *office, only that the document is not .doc but .html and the browser can render it. Or apache.
If you post a .jpg or .png on paste.opensuse.org of what you want your titles and links to look like, I'd be happy to write a template for you with an inline style sheet. (Put at least 2 links in the example so we can see margins and padding) Then you could simply copy/paste addition links in as needed (or generate them from a list of links in a file with sed or awk or a loop for that matter) and just update the html file. That's probably the easiest way to go. As you have probably found when you try and save from any program (libreoffice, composer, etc..), the file created has a bunch of unneeded, oddly formatted crud, meta tags, links or script information you didn't put there. Literally, you page shouldn't include anything other than, e.g. <!DOCTYPE html> <html> <head> <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1" charset="utf-8"> <!-- Maybe an inline style sheet or favicon.ico link --> </head> <body> <!-- Your Titles & Links Here --> </body> </html> That's literally your page sans your titles and links. The stylesheet would just set fonts, colors, margins, padding, borders, etc.. for you titles and links. Below is a goofy example. You can just throw it on your server. You can add more titles in links and or make separate categories by making copies of the whole unordered list block and simply renaming. Skies the limit, you can just add to the style sheet and add borders, whatever. Just put it on your server (I called it carlos.html for messing with it) <!DOCTYPE html> <html> <head> <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1" charset="utf-8"> <!-- Maybe an inline style sheet or favicon.ico link --> <style> body { font-family: "Lato", sans-serif; margin: 5px, 10px, 5px, 10px; /* top, right, bottom, left */ } h3 { margin: 0; padding-top: 0.5em; font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; color: #333; } h4 { margin: 0 0 0 20px; padding-top: 0.5em; font-size: 1.1em; font-weight: bold; font-stretch: expanded; color: #4754B9; } p { font-size: .9em; text-indent: 5px; padding: 2px, 10px, 2px, 10px; } a { color: #4A87CD; font-size: .9em; text-decoration: none; margin: 0px 0px 10px 0px; padding-left: 10px; } a:hover { color: #3E62F3; /* background-color: #B5CCEC; */ text-decoration: underline; } a:visited { color: #4A87CD; text-decoration: none; outline: none; } ul { width: 50%; background-color: #C6DEE3; } </style> </head> <body> <!-- Your Titles & Links Here --> <h3>Carlo's Favorite Links</h3> <h4>Youtube's Finest</h4> <p>My Favorite Pet Videos</p> <ul> <li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFrBr8oUVXU" alt="There is Intellegent Life Out There" title="It's A Sticky Situation">My Dog Has Fleas!</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX0ItVEVjHc" alt="And It's Feline" title="But Not an Itchy One">My Cat Has None</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edvdzh9Pggg" alt="Dog v. Cat" title="Intelligence Meows">Lucky Cat</a></li> </ul> </body> </html> -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
On 03/11/2020 04.56, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 11/2/20 3:46 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I only do a single html file. I know nothing about tags, styles, I don't want to, and I don't need to. I just want to write a document (that happens to have links to youtube videos), same as I do in *office, only that the document is not .doc but .html and the browser can render it. Or apache.
If you post a .jpg or .png on paste.opensuse.org of what you want your titles and links to look like, I'd be happy to write a template for you with an inline style sheet. (Put at least 2 links in the example so we can see margins and padding) Then you could simply copy/paste addition links in as needed (or generate them from a list of links in a file with sed or awk or a loop for that matter) and just update the html file.
I tried susepaste and it accused me of being a spammer. I'll mail it directly to you using gmail. It is the actual whole file that I use.
That's probably the easiest way to go. As you have probably found when you try and save from any program (libreoffice, composer, etc..), the file created has a bunch of unneeded, oddly formatted crud, meta tags, links or script information you didn't put there.
But why bother? I don't understand the insistence. The file generated by composer or writer works for me, and I do it in seconds (with composer). Why bother to do it "right"?
Literally, you page shouldn't include anything other than, e.g.
Who cares? :-) Nobody but me is going to see it. Look, the basic purpose of the file is that I paste on it youtube videos to watch on another computer that serves as multimedia server. I get some video that seems interesting over email, and I paste the link in an html file that I open on the media server because there I only have to click on it to watch it. If this were a movie, I would just grab the link with my hand and throw it at a huge display on the wall. Well, my wall display is tiny, just 55cm, and I don't have a virtual reality operating system. But my system is fast! From selecting the link on the email to start of youtube in the other computer is less than a minute. Why bother to do it nice or "right"? That the file could be simpler, less tags, use less ram? Why, who cares? I I were going to publish the file I might care. But for this? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
participants (13)
-
Anton Aylward -
Bill Walsh -
Bob Williams -
Carl Hartung -
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E.R. -
David C. Rankin -
gumb -
Harrie Baken -
Istvan Gabor -
jdd＠dodin.org -
José Roberto Alas -
Knurpht-openSUSE