[opensuse] yast, zypper, apt, ... ?
Hi, all -- What's the preferred/right/best/easiest way to install & update software on my Leap system? I grew up on YaST (and then YaST2), but I keep seeing folks using zypper, and there are even occasional comments about apt. My goal is simply to be able to find the most software the most easily and reliably, since it's already challenging enough to know which RPM repositories and archives to search... TIA & HAND :-D -- David T-G See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/email/ See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/tofu.txt -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/01/18 13:28, David T-G wrote:
Hi, all --
What's the preferred/right/best/easiest way to install & update software on my Leap system? I grew up on YaST (and then YaST2), but I keep seeing folks using zypper, and there are even occasional comments about apt. My goal is simply to be able to find the most software the most easily and reliably, since it's already challenging enough to know which RPM repositories and archives to search...
Ouf! Not a simple question and I sense a can of worms about to be unleashed on the mailing lists... :-/ Essentially there is NO universally preferred, right or best option. Easiest is something that could perhaps be debated with some factual back-up, but it's all down to the individual. I know many on here are likely to chime in recommending zypper but different people have different needs and find the solution that suits them best. I started on SuSE 8.2 prior to zypper being a thing. I got used to the rather quirky and esoteric YaST Software Management interface and have stuck with it. It could certainly do with improvement as it hasn't changed much over the years, although I'm rather wary that most attempts in recent times of 'improving' such things often seem to be nothing more than simplification and dumbing down by removing niche features, to the benefit of those who think a clean interface trumps all, and to the detriment of those who like and rely on those niche features. Needless to say, hence, that I'm principally a Plasma user, since I like niche features. Note however that when using openSUSE with XFCE or LXDE as my primary DE, I've always swapped out the GTK YaST interface for the Qt one since the former seemed to have missing features and wasn't so logically arranged for my brain. I could have learnt how to use zypper and part of the reason I haven't is inertia, but also because I didn't get into Linux for want of learning the command line and geeky ways to do things. I chose it partly for the philosophical reasons, partly for the improved security and less all-round annoyances of Windows, partly the desire to free myself from the chains of proprietary hardware/software and the constant need to pay out for new versions and incompatibilities. I chose SuSE (as it was back then) precisely since it had good reviews for having user-friendly features like YaST. And so since I'm so crap at memorising commands (not so much the commands themselves but all the myriad options that each one contains, requiring me to waste time reading the man page every time I want to do something) I prefer the point-and-click interface of YaST. That's just what works best for me. One thing I would say though is that the 'one-click' (quadruple quotes probably needed there since it has never in reality been anything of the sort, just as 'flicker-free' boot has always offered me more of a flicker-frenzy than anything else on any machine I've ever used with openSUSE) software installer is something I avoid. It leads you blindfolded through software installation and I prefer to review whether or not installing one tiny utility is going to pull in 500MB and half of GNOME and from what repos. So I prefer going to the OBS software search front-end, locating the package, then downloading the version with the relevant architecture, copying it to my /usr/src/packages/RPMs/{arch} directory and having that directory set as a local repo in YaST. The potential annoyance there is that sometimes upon selecting the package for installation it advises that you need some other package and you then have to go hunting for that separately, and so on. And now I'll hand over to the zypper crowd to have their say... :) gumb -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Hallo gumb, op 09-01-18 om 14:17 schreef je:
I sense a can of worms about to be unleashed on the mailing lists... :-/
He he, that's what I thought too! But it is 2 hours later now and it has become a nice, kind & very useful thread. Harrie -- Harrie Baken | Tekstbureau TekstBaken Copy-editing - proofreading (Dutch) www.tekstbaken.nl *Signal* https://signal.org/ Reg. Linux user #366560 | openSUSE 42.2 | CentOS 7 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Harrie, et al -- ...and then Harrie Baken said... % % Hallo gumb, op 09-01-18 om 14:17 schreef je: % % > I sense a can of worms about to be unleashed on the mailing lists... % > :-/ % % He he, that's what I thought too! But it is 2 hours later now and it has % become a nice, kind & very useful thread. I know, right?!? I must have posted to the wrong list ;-) Thanks for all of the input, everyone. I'm still chewing through all of the emails so far, but this seemed a perfect opportunity for a first reply :-) % % Harrie HAND :-D -- David T-G See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/email/ See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/tofu.txt -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
David T-G wrote:
Hi, all --
What's the preferred/right/best/easiest way to install & update software on my Leap system? I grew up on YaST (and then YaST2), but I keep seeing folks using zypper,
I like to use both, but I'm probably leaning towards zypper and/or rpm more and more.
My goal is simply to be able to find the most software the most easily and reliably, since it's already challenging enough to know which RPM repositories and archives to search...
Just keep using YaST, it's very good at its job. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (10.1°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/01/18 07:28 AM, David T-G wrote:
What's the preferred/right/best/easiest way to install & update software on my Leap system?
I'm a zypper user but I still make use of the 'search' facility: https://software.opensuse.org/search But that's neither command line nor Yast :-) -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Anton Aylward wrote:
On 09/01/18 07:28 AM, David T-G wrote:
What's the preferred/right/best/easiest way to install & update software on my Leap system?
I'm a zypper user but I still make use of the 'search' facility: https://software.opensuse.org/search
But that's neither command line nor Yast :-)
Well - you *could* add all available repositories to you zypper, then you could do the same from the command line, isn't it? SCNR.... (but yes, I also use search quite often) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
David T-G wrote:
Hi, all --
What's the preferred/right/best/easiest way to install & update software on my Leap system? I grew up on YaST (and then YaST2), but I keep seeing folks using zypper, and there are even occasional comments about apt. My goal is simply to be able to find the most software the most easily and reliably, since it's already challenging enough to know which RPM repositories and archives to search...
The easiest is for sure the system that you're used to :) I've always used the command line versions, including smart and apt4rpm, on my (open)SuSE installations. They give you the full set of options (at the price of quite some learning curve). IMHO the reliability and especially stability when using multiple repositories has increase permanently, and the current zypper is the most robust thing I've seen so far. Yes, apt is (sometimes much) faster, but I did (and do) have unresolvable situations with multiple 3rd party repos. Your mileage might vary, I'll stay with zypper. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2018-01-09 at 07:28 -0500, David T-G wrote:
Hi, all --
What's the preferred/right/best/easiest way to install & update software on my Leap system? I grew up on YaST (and then YaST2), but I keep seeing folks using zypper, and there are even occasional comments about apt. My goal is simply to be able to find the most software the most easily and reliably, since it's already challenging enough to know which RPM repositories and archives to search...
Just keep using YaST :-) You are used to it and it is not going to disappear. Zypper has it uses; for instance, it is easier to post on a mailing list a solution using a zypper command line than describing a process using YaST; similarly for any document. I sometimes use zypper, but I use YaST the most. I can see the consequences of my acts before commiting and I can do changes or abort. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlpUyTwACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XyQQCfSHdhiJVWzgRsS2Zot/KXJyQ6 JsEAnRxlq3RbfbESSaThTuAmriTsgsp+ =FcEt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, January 9, 2018 2:52:52 PM EST Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Tuesday, 2018-01-09 at 07:28 -0500, David T-G wrote:
Hi, all --
What's the preferred/right/best/easiest way to install & update software on my Leap system? I grew up on YaST (and then YaST2), but I keep seeing folks using zypper, and there are even occasional comments about apt. My goal is simply to be able to find the most software the most easily and reliably, since it's already challenging enough to know which RPM repositories and archives to search...
...
I sometimes use zypper, but I use YaST the most. I can see the consequences of my acts before commiting and I can do changes or abort.
Way back in the SuSE days there was a great (well, I thought it was) how-to published showing how to do an upgrade with YaST. I've mostly used that method ever since and only occasionally use zypper, never for a full upgrade. My primary reason is similar to what Carlos writes above: I can easily see all of the changes about to be made, and can manually resolve conflicts - of which I always have quite a few because I use quite a few repositories. That said, in recent years for new releases I have gravitated towards using the DVD instead. With major releases I suspect that there are changes made relative to configurations or architecture or hardware, that are not captured by just a package update. Apparently though zypper includes everything that is needed, so I'm quite unsure about this. (I sure wish someone could verify whether this is so or not.) For me, comes down to using the best tool for the particular update, and which system I'm updating. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op dinsdag 9 januari 2018 13:28:41 CET schreef David T-G:
Hi, all --
What's the preferred/right/best/easiest way to install & update software on my Leap system? I grew up on YaST (and then YaST2), but I keep seeing folks using zypper, and there are even occasional comments about apt. My goal is simply to be able to find the most software the most easily and reliably, since it's already challenging enough to know which RPM repositories and archives to search...
TIA & HAND
:-D
The best advice is a "use what suits you best" advice. YaST's software manager is nothing more than a front-end to zypper. If you're a dedicated cli user, zypper is ideal for you, if you come from the debian world apt might be handy. In the end it's a matter of taste, of feeling comfortable with. -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2018-01-09 at 14:54 +0100, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
Op dinsdag 9 januari 2018 13:28:41 CET schreef David T-G:
Hi, all --
What's the preferred/right/best/easiest way to install & update software on my Leap system? I grew up on YaST (and then YaST2), but I keep seeing folks using zypper, and there are even occasional comments about apt. My goal is simply to be able to find the most software the most easily and reliably, since it's already challenging enough to know which RPM repositories and archives to search...
TIA & HAND
:-D
The best advice is a "use what suits you best" advice. YaST's software manager is nothing more than a front-end to zypper. If you're a dedicated cli user, zypper is ideal for you, if you come from the debian world apt might be handy. In the end it's a matter of taste, of feeling comfortable with.
Er... being strict, YaST is not a frontend to zypper. Instead, it uses libzypp; it does not call the zypper command line. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlpU1e0ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UmwQCfZvw5BHQiamBjMOXFRxiOPtUj /JkAnA1gzH7Z2d0cF63gawlQKPQ1MQ7v =wyTU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/01/18 09:47 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Er... being strict, YaST is not a frontend to zypper. Instead, it uses libzypp; it does not call the zypper command line.
Err, if you really want to be picky, zypper is a front end to libzypp :-) -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2018-01-09 at 09:56 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 09/01/18 09:47 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Er... being strict, YaST is not a frontend to zypper. Instead, it uses libzypp; it does not call the zypper command line.
Err, if you really want to be picky, zypper is a front end to libzypp :-)
No. An application that uses a library is just an application. A frontend is a program that calls another program (exec...) to do the real job, analyzing the text output to create its own output. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlpU2acACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WoxQCggbxaGav7FVdvYEFmE37Agazi hiIAn1ruwrSZm410ibYkxF+Wiq1nZeTT =c2PX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op dinsdag 9 januari 2018 15:47:01 CET schreef Carlos E. R.:
On Tuesday, 2018-01-09 at 14:54 +0100, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
Op dinsdag 9 januari 2018 13:28:41 CET schreef David T-G:
Hi, all --
What's the preferred/right/best/easiest way to install & update software on my Leap system? I grew up on YaST (and then YaST2), but I keep seeing folks using zypper, and there are even occasional comments about apt. My goal is simply to be able to find the most software the most easily and reliably, since it's already challenging enough to know which RPM repositories and archives to search...
TIA & HAND
:-D
The best advice is a "use what suits you best" advice. YaST's software manager is nothing more than a front-end to zypper. If you're a dedicated cli user, zypper is ideal for you, if you come from the debian world apt might be handy. In the end it's a matter of taste, of feeling comfortable with.
Er... being strict, YaST is not a frontend to zypper. Instead, it uses libzypp; it does not call the zypper command line.
-- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
*uses the zypp technology* to correct myself. And back on-topic, I like the thread so far. :D -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/01/2018 14:28, David T-G wrote:
Hi, all --
What's the preferred/right/best/easiest way to install & update software on my Leap system? I grew up on YaST (and then YaST2), but I keep seeing folks using zypper, and there are even occasional comments about apt. My goal is simply to be able to find the most software the most easily and reliably, since it's already challenging enough to know which RPM repositories and archives to search...
TIA & HAND
:-D
Keeping up to date with updates is easy with zypper. sudo zypper ref then sudo zypper up -t patch but using yast2 update enables you to see what the patches are for. If you're used to yast for software installation, stick with it. Read man zypper to see what it has to offer. Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (10)
-
Anton Aylward -
Carlos E. R. -
Dave Plater -
David T-G -
Dennis Gallien -
gumb -
Harrie Baken -
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink -
Per Jessen -
Peter Suetterlin