Re: [opensuse] Win vs Lin info]
On Tue, 2007-02-27 at 09:45 +0100, DElyMyth wrote:
On 2/27/07, Hans van der Merwe <hvdmerwe@sunspace.co.za> wrote:
This will probably spark some debates, but can someone point me to some information that I can use to successfully challenge out IT department concerning moving some Windows driven services to Linux (file, print and email/collaboration).
I would say (besides the usual os-wars) that the ability to pilot the server remotely without a GUI could be a good point. A GUI spends resources, and Windows can't live without it, while Linux can, and connecting via ssh gives you all the power you need to manage the server and the installed services also if you're at home and want to check how things are going (maybe trough a slow connection, unusable if you need a GUI).
Another point can be the fact that Windows costs, while Linux is free... Not forgetting about stability issues. Windows needs to be rebooted sometimes, Linux can live without a reboot for months (unless you want to upgrade the kernel...).
Hope this helps,
Thx, but the practical problem is this... we have two competent Windows centric IT people... one IT manager who overdosed on the MS-Coolaid.... we have an AD, 70 XPs (full house, Office etc), MS-Portal, MS-Exchange, MS-SQL, BackupExec, MS-IIS, FullSiteLicense(TM). To move just one of these over to something else will require another Linux IT person (we cant afford), IT manager wont let IT staff go on Linux course because we don't have Linux servers (catch-22). I'll admit, this is actually an valid issue. Now I want persuade management (who knows nothing about IT and assumes its always expensive) that we can move over some of these services to cheaper alternatives. IT manager has got all the FUD behind him - I need some anti-FUD info. E-Mail disclaimer: http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hans van der Merwe wrote:
Thx, but the practical problem is this... we have two competent Windows centric IT people... one IT manager who overdosed on the MS-Coolaid.... we have an AD, 70 XPs (full house, Office etc), MS-Portal, MS-Exchange, MS-SQL, BackupExec, MS-IIS, FullSiteLicense(TM). To move just one of these over to something else will require another Linux IT person (we cant afford), IT manager wont let IT staff go on Linux course because we don't have Linux servers (catch-22).
I'll admit, this is actually an valid issue.
Now I want persuade management (who knows nothing about IT and assumes its always expensive) that we can move over some of these services to cheaper alternatives.
How are you actually going to make cost savings in this situation? If you can show that replacing some component will save the business substantial money, FUD will evaporate. If you can't, there's no hope :(
IT manager has got all the FUD behind him - I need some anti-FUD info.
Cheers, Dave -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2007-02-27 at 10:21 +0000, Dave Howorth wrote:
Hans van der Merwe wrote:
Thx, but the practical problem is this... we have two competent Windows centric IT people... one IT manager who overdosed on the MS-Coolaid.... we have an AD, 70 XPs (full house, Office etc), MS-Portal, MS-Exchange, MS-SQL, BackupExec, MS-IIS, FullSiteLicense(TM). To move just one of these over to something else will require another Linux IT person (we cant afford), IT manager wont let IT staff go on Linux course because we don't have Linux servers (catch-22).
I'll admit, this is actually an valid issue.
Now I want persuade management (who knows nothing about IT and assumes its always expensive) that we can move over some of these services to cheaper alternatives.
How are you actually going to make cost savings in this situation? If you can show that replacing some component will save the business substantial money, FUD will evaporate. If you can't, there's no hope :(
Yes but something like - "But, TCO is much lower with current Widows arch than Linux, see these reports" (classic FUD) is difficult to counter - I need company expenditure reports and such to be able to make a point - and TCO is difficult to compare. My actual problem is that the IT manager is not an idiot - he is just a die hard capitalist - with some really good business points. The MS momentum is really hard to argue against, but I would like to at least try. E-Mail disclaimer: http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 27 February 2007, Hans van der Merwe wrote:
Yes but something like - "But, TCO is much lower with current Widows arch than Linux, see these reports" (classic FUD) is difficult to counter -
Any manager that believe a single word from a Gartner report is one you don't want to work for. Run away like your hair is on fire. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen
John Andersen wrote:
On Tuesday 27 February 2007, Hans van der Merwe wrote:
Yes but something like - "But, TCO is much lower with current Widows arch than Linux, see these reports" (classic FUD) is difficult to counter -
Any manager that believe a single word from a Gartner report is one you don't want to work for. Run away like your hair is on fire.
Then your problem will be: It's the majority of managers that do believe. And running away all the time doesn't bring much in the end. You know the value of Gartner reports, don't you? Gartner's research is mostly made by asking "deciders" in big companies what they think about technology and market trends. This is not technology research, but market research. Anybody who takes them for technology research is in for a surprise -- but as market research reports they are great. I.e., their reports tell what the majority of managers and people with budget approval rights think about the state and future of technological trends; where they are more probable to invest. Most managers that are new in a filed orient themselves towards the opinion of their peers (not too different from the behavior of techies, if you think about it). This introduces a fortifying feedback loop, thus Gartner reports are often good predictions for investment trends. And this is very valuable information, about what one can expect from one's managers (or one's customers in my case, as we do consulting). For me, being the CEO of a consulting company, Gartner reports are mandatory reading. They give insight in the trends that my customers' managers are probably want to follow, and where I can either try to use that information for acquisition of new projects or try to prep them up with appropriate contradictionary information if I think that Gartner's recommendations would be bad for my customers' situation and IT strategy. Joachim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Joachim Schrod Email: jschrod@acm.org Roedermark, Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 28 February 2007, Joachim Schrod wrote:
You know the value of Gartner reports, don't you? Gartner's research is mostly made by asking "deciders" in big companies what they think
Gartner will say anything you PAY them to say. They don't give fig for what the facts are or even what the customer thinks. When customers start bitching because Windows 2003 server is too costly, MS pays Gartner to pull out another Windows TCO study proving otherwise. I don't know of anyone in a position to make a decision (even among the droids of State Government - with whom I'm very familiar) who believe a word they print, or would give them the time of day to answer their surveys. The only "Decider" that Gartner gives a rats ass about is the one who decides to hire them. They know why they were hired. They know what they are supposed to do. They do it with out blinking. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (4)
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Dave Howorth -
Hans van der Merwe -
Joachim Schrod -
John Andersen