[opensuse] Dear Chairman Brown ~
Dear Chairman Brown , Can we now please re-instate Linda ? regards ... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op dinsdag 7 november 2017 15:33:19 CET schreef ellanios82:
Dear Chairman Brown ,
Can we now please re-instate Linda ?
regards
... That should have been "Dear Board".
-- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/11/17 16:35, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
Op dinsdag 7 november 2017 15:33:19 CET schreef ellanios82:
Dear Chairman Brown ,
Can we now please re-instate Linda ?
regards
... That should have been "Dear Board".
- Too true ........ thanks -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/11/17 09:01, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 11/07/2017 08:33 AM, ellanios82 wrote:
Dear Chairman Brown ,
Can we now please re-instate Linda ? Motion seconded.
Plus 1 ... to the power of n. BC -- "You should never argue about politics or religion. Or anything else if you're going to come out with crap like that." Anonymous circa 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/09/2017 05:57 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 09/11/17 09:01, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 11/07/2017 08:33 AM, ellanios82 wrote:
Dear Chairman Brown ,
Can we now please re-instate Linda ? Motion seconded.
Plus 1 ... to the power of n.
BC
But, 1 to the power of n is still 1. :-) Now, seriously. My plus 1. I think banning Linda was a wrong move. I am on this list for very loong time. Mostly "listening", rarely asking or answering. Writing in English is hard to me and always takes a lot of time, so I mostly wait for others to ask or answer. For all these years, I always percieved this list's purpose was not just for asking/giving help, but also, in cases, for expressing opinions on important topics regarding (open)SUSE from user perspective. Opinions have their value. Communicating opinions is a kind of help in a sense. At least, it was helpful to *me* to learn what others think on subjects that I am interested in. Of course, I felt free to ignore subjects that were out of my interest. So, I feel free to express my oppinion that involvment of board members/chair in (kind of) moderation, banning individual list members or even treathening of terminating the whole mailing list look like some sort of micromanaging. I would expect governance level to keep "noses in" but "hands out". Than again, of course, I might be wrong. Hope this was not too much throttling of list's bandwidth. Otherwise, I appologize. Radule Soskic
??----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, 2017-11-16 at 13:09 -0000, Radule Šoškić wrote:
On 11/09/2017 05:57 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 09/11/17 09:01, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 11/07/2017 08:33 AM, ellanios82 wrote:
Dear Chairman Brown ,
Can we now please re-instate Linda ? Motion seconded.
Plus 1 ... to the power of n.
BC
But, 1 to the power of n is still 1. :-)
Now, seriously.
My plus 1.
I think banning Linda was a wrong move.
I am on this list for very loong time. Mostly "listening", rarely asking or answering. Writing in English is hard to me and always takes a lot of time, so I mostly wait for others to ask or answer. For all these years, I always percieved this list's purpose was not just for asking/giving help, but also, in cases, for expressing opinions on important topics regarding (open)SUSE from user perspective. Opinions have their value. Communicating opinions is a kind of help in a sense. At least, it was helpful to *me* to learn what others think on subjects that I am interested in. Of course, I felt free to ignore subjects that were out of my interest.
Yes, I agree.
So, I feel free to express my oppinion that involvment of board members/chair in (kind of) moderation, banning individual list members or even treathening of terminating the whole mailing list look like some sort of micromanaging. I would expect governance level to keep "noses in" but "hands out". Than again, of course, I might be wrong.
I also agree. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAloNnJcACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VNSACdFCuJNZ/BbcAnKMRJyXBDcisO K0EAnRwf/Lbyfm4jn3kfcs99kBQVqixH =YSz6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 16/11/17 15:09, Radule Šoškić wrote:
On 11/09/2017 05:57 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 09/11/17 09:01, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 11/07/2017 08:33 AM, ellanios82 wrote:
Dear Chairman Brown ,
Can we now please re-instate Linda ? Motion seconded. Plus 1 ... to the power of n.
BC
But, 1 to the power of n is still 1. :-)
Now, seriously.
My plus 1.
I think banning Linda was a wrong move.
I am on this list for very loong time. Mostly "listening", rarely asking or answering. Writing in English is hard to me and always takes a lot of time, so I mostly wait for others to ask or answer. For all these years, I always percieved this list's purpose was not just for asking/giving help, but also, in cases, for expressing opinions on important topics regarding (open)SUSE from user perspective. Opinions have their value. Communicating opinions is a kind of help in a sense. At least, it was helpful to *me* to learn what others think on subjects that I am interested in. Of course, I felt free to ignore subjects that were out of my interest.
So, I feel free to express my oppinion that involvment of board members/chair in (kind of) moderation, banning individual list members or even treathening of terminating the whole mailing list look like some sort of micromanaging. I would expect governance level to keep "noses in" but "hands out". Than again, of course, I might be wrong.
Hope this was not too much throttling of list's bandwidth. Otherwise, I appologize.
Radule SoskicN - Thank you so much for expressing this matter , so well .
....... regards -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 16/11/17 08:09 AM, Radule Šoškić wrote:
Opinions have their value. Communicating opinions is a kind of help in a sense. At least, it was helpful to *me* to learn what others think on subjects that I am interested in. Of course, I felt free to ignore subjects that were out of my interest.
Indeed. That someone should point out that LILO is an alternative to GRUB is quite valid. As you say, it might not be of interest to many, but then using LVM, using BtrFS, using nVidia hardware and the various drivers available for it, using the build service, and many, many other matters are not going to be of interest to absolutely everyone. And if LILO is an alternative to GRUB then booting without using either of them is also quite valid. Such a technique is a valid method and contribution. What Linda had to say on the matter might be a bit strident, and her dislike of the attitudes of the systemd developers might be a antagonistic, but on the whole I find her less antagonistic than Chairman Brown. If you don't like what she has to say then use the delete button or mailer's filters. While talking about banning people from the list, perhaps we should consider the matter of making explicit personal insults on the list against other members and making wholesale threats a reason for banning people. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 16/11/17 14:48, Anton Aylward wrote:
And if LILO is an alternative to GRUB then booting without using either of them is also quite valid. Such a technique is a valid method and contribution. What Linda had to say on the matter might be a bit strident, and her dislike of the attitudes of the systemd developers might be a antagonistic, but on the whole I find her less antagonistic than Chairman Brown.
And although I've never used it, there is now a LILO2 - presumably as an alternative to GRUB2. As for booting without either, isn't that what most new computers do nowadays? Isn't it called UEFI? (ObTopic, I wish I knew what the bootloader on my very first (at least I think it was) linux install was. UniVerse linux, 1.3 kernel. Booted into a very nice kernel selection screen and I don't think it was LILO. Certainly didn't look like it.) Cheers, Wol -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
16.11.2017 20:53, Wols Lists пишет:
On 16/11/17 14:48, Anton Aylward wrote:
And if LILO is an alternative to GRUB then booting without using either of them is also quite valid. Such a technique is a valid method and contribution. What Linda had to say on the matter might be a bit strident, and her dislike of the attitudes of the systemd developers might be a antagonistic, but on the whole I find her less antagonistic than Chairman Brown.
And although I've never used it, there is now a LILO2
reference please -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
16.11.2017 20:53, Wols Lists пишет:
On 16/11/17 14:48, Anton Aylward wrote:
And if LILO is an alternative to GRUB then booting without using either of them is also quite valid. Such a technique is a valid method and contribution. What Linda had to say on the matter might be a bit strident, and her dislike of the attitudes of the systemd developers might be a antagonistic, but on the whole I find her less antagonistic than Chairman Brown.
And although I've never used it, there is now a LILO2
reference please
Yes please. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (2.8°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/11/17 00:01, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 11/07/2017 08:33 AM, ellanios82 wrote:
Dear Chairman Brown ,
Can we now please re-instate Linda ? Motion seconded.
- Thank you for Seconding the Motion - let us hope the Board will , encouraging 'user-friendliness' , embrace contrarian view-points , even though unsupported by official-policy, and , re-instate Linda ......... regards -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 17/11/17 09:24, ellanios82 wrote:
On 09/11/17 00:01, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 11/07/2017 08:33 AM, ellanios82 wrote:
Dear Chairman Brown ,
Can we now please re-instate Linda ? Motion seconded.
- Thank you for Seconding the Motion
- let us hope the Board will , encouraging 'user-friendliness' , embrace contrarian view-points , even though unsupported by official-policy,
and ,
re-instate Linda
.........
regards
I second too. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Hi all, FYI: On behalf of the board I sent an email to Linda last monday to settle things and have her ban lifted. Awaiting her reply. Any comments, discussion off-list please. The opensuse@opensuse.org ML is meant for support, the correct place to let your opinions known to the openSUSE board is by emailing board@opensuse.org. -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
Hi all,
FYI: On behalf of the board I sent an email to Linda last monday to settle things and have her ban lifted. Awaiting her reply.
Any comments, discussion off-list please. The opensuse@opensuse.org ML is meant for support, the correct place to let your opinions known to the openSUSE board is by emailing board@opensuse.org.
I actually like to see people's opinion expressed here too, especially on such matters. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (4.1°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Hallo Per Jessen, op 17-11-17 om 17:48 schreef je:
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
Hi all,
FYI: On behalf of the board I sent an email to Linda last monday to settle things and have her ban lifted. Awaiting her reply.
Any comments, discussion off-list please. The opensuse@opensuse.org ML is meant for support, the correct place to let your opinions known to the openSUSE board is by emailing board@opensuse.org.
I actually like to see people's opinion expressed here too, especially on such matters.
#MeToo ;) Keeping things 'silent' is common practice in private corporations of moneymakers, not in communities of people. Harrie -- Harrie Baken | Tekstbureau TekstBaken Copy-editing - proofreading (Dutch) www.tekstbaken.nl Reg. Linux user #366560 | openSUSE 42.3 | CentOS 7 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* Harrie Baken <hb-lijsten@tekstbaken.nl> [11-17-17 12:33]:
Hallo Per Jessen, op 17-11-17 om 17:48 schreef je:
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
Hi all,
FYI: On behalf of the board I sent an email to Linda last monday to settle things and have her ban lifted. Awaiting her reply.
Any comments, discussion off-list please. The opensuse@opensuse.org ML is meant for support, the correct place to let your opinions known to the openSUSE board is by emailing board@opensuse.org.
I actually like to see people's opinion expressed here too, especially on such matters.
#MeToo ;)
Keeping things 'silent' is common practice in private corporations of moneymakers, not in communities of people.
And. This *list* is not for people's opinions. We have offtopic for that. *most* of the developers and packagers already shy away from this list due to off-topic traffic and flames. perhaps we should merge this list with offtopic and start a new list, opensuse-help. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On Fri, 2017-11-17 at 13:30 -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Harrie Baken <hb-lijsten@tekstbaken.nl> [11-17-17 12:33]:
Hallo Per Jessen, op 17-11-17 om 17:48 schreef je:
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
Hi all,
FYI: On behalf of the board I sent an email to Linda last monday to settle things and have her ban lifted. Awaiting her reply.
Any comments, discussion off-list please. The opensuse@opensuse .org ML is meant for support, the correct place to let your opinions known to the openSUSE board is by emailing board@opensuse.org.
I actually like to see people's opinion expressed here too, especially on such matters.
#MeToo ;)
Keeping things 'silent' is common practice in private corporations of moneymakers, not in communities of people.
And. This *list* is not for people's opinions. We have offtopic for that. *most* of the developers and packagers already shy away from this list due to off-topic traffic and flames. perhaps we should merge this list with offtopic and start a new list, opensuse-help.
Isn't that kind of the nature of conversation between people though? It feels like it's extremely rare that I'm involved in conversations of any length that start and end on the same topic without any deviation, especially as multiple people are involved at the same time. Unfortunately with email, it's harder than just moving a thread on a forum; the conversations get all mixed up, people come into the conversation in the middle, and some folks just miss the "transition to off-topic" entirely. Especially since many people join the conversation at different points along the way, or reply to older versions of the thread than the current "most recent post." So to me, saying "move this to offtopic" isn't really effective on a busy mailing list with a lot of traffic and active posters.
-- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounte r.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> paka @ IRCnet freenode
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On 18/11/17 06:40, Christopher Myers wrote:
On Fri, 2017-11-17 at 13:30 -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Harrie Baken <hb-lijsten@tekstbaken.nl> [11-17-17 12:33]:
Hallo Per Jessen, op 17-11-17 om 17:48 schreef je:
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
Hi all,
FYI: On behalf of the board I sent an email to Linda last monday to settle things and have her ban lifted. Awaiting her reply.
Any comments, discussion off-list please. The opensuse@opensuse .org ML is meant for support, the correct place to let your opinions known to the openSUSE board is by emailing board@opensuse.org.
I actually like to see people's opinion expressed here too, especially on such matters.
#MeToo ;)
Keeping things 'silent' is common practice in private corporations of moneymakers, not in communities of people.
And. This *list* is not for people's opinions. We have offtopic for that. *most* of the developers and packagers already shy away from this list due to off-topic traffic and flames. perhaps we should merge this list with offtopic and start a new list, opensuse-help.
Isn't that kind of the nature of conversation between people though? It feels like it's extremely rare that I'm involved in conversations of any length that start and end on the same topic without any deviation, especially as multiple people are involved at the same time.
Unfortunately with email, it's harder than just moving a thread on a forum; the conversations get all mixed up, people come into the conversation in the middle, and some folks just miss the "transition to off-topic" entirely. Especially since many people join the conversation at different points along the way, or reply to older versions of the thread than the current "most recent post."
So to me, saying "move this to offtopic" isn't really effective on a busy mailing list with a lot of traffic and active posters.
Absolutely. I am sure that you would have heard this one before and I would suggest that this applies in this list: "To a man with a hammer everything is a nail" :-). BC -- "You should never argue about politics or religion. Or anything else if you're going to come out with crap like that." Anonymous circa 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 17/11/17 01:30 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
perhaps we should merge this list with offtopic and start a new list, opensuse-help.
Make that opensuse-technical-help and I'd agree. There are various types of help and some of them might be better directed to other specific lists, but the first 'triage' point is if the matter is technical or not. For example, there are quite a lot of 'where do I find' questions, and there was the discussion of updating the web site format and links. Some matter are most definitely 'discussion' topics rather than straight forward questions with definitive answers. They may be off-topic to a purely technical thread but they are quite different from what goes down in the offtopic list. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 18/11/17 05:30, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
Hallo Per Jessen, op 17-11-17 om 17:48 schreef je:
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
Hi all,
FYI: On behalf of the board I sent an email to Linda last monday to settle things and have her ban lifted. Awaiting her reply.
Any comments, discussion off-list please. The opensuse@opensuse.org ML is meant for support, the correct place to let your opinions known to the openSUSE board is by emailing board@opensuse.org. I actually like to see people's opinion expressed here too, especially on such matters. #MeToo ;)
Keeping things 'silent' is common practice in private corporations of moneymakers, not in communities of people. And. This *list* is not for people's opinions. We have offtopic for
* Harrie Baken <hb-lijsten@tekstbaken.nl> [11-17-17 12:33]: that. *most* of the developers and packagers already shy away from this list due to off-topic traffic and flames. perhaps we should merge this list with offtopic and start a new list, opensuse-help.
There are enough "left-wingers" and "ultra right-wingers" on the offtopic list so let's not direct people there for discussions about OPENSUSE :-). As the name implies, offtopic is for offtopic subjects not generally covered by lists aimed at the actual Linux distribution openSUSE. Some rearrangements appear to have been made in the "wiki" and one now cannot find the full description of what each mail list is about and the only description I can now find re opensuse (en) is, "Generic questions and User to User support for all the openSUSE distributions" -- and the present exchange of views/comments between Community Members is covered by this abridged "definition" of the purpose of this mail list: "...User to User support...". BC -- "You should never argue about politics or religion. Or anything else if you're going to come out with crap like that." Anonymous circa 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 18/11/17 04:32, Harrie Baken wrote:
Hallo Per Jessen, op 17-11-17 om 17:48 schreef je:
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
Hi all,
FYI: On behalf of the board I sent an email to Linda last monday to settle things and have her ban lifted. Awaiting her reply.
Any comments, discussion off-list please. The opensuse@opensuse.org ML is meant for support, the correct place to let your opinions known to the openSUSE board is by emailing board@opensuse.org. I actually like to see people's opinion expressed here too, especially on such matters. #MeToo ;)
Keeping things 'silent' is common practice in private corporations of moneymakers, not in communities of people.
Harrie
I think you are possibly looking for the word "transparency", or trying to say that community people should not be treated as mushrooms :-). BC -- "You should never argue about politics or religion. Or anything else if you're going to come out with crap like that." Anonymous circa 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 17/11/2017 à 17:48, Per Jessen a écrit :
I actually like to see people's opinion expressed here too, especially on such matters.
and thanks to the board to listen the list jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 17/11/17 18:48, Per Jessen wrote:
like to see people's opinion expressed here too, especially on such matters.
- invitations can be open-hearted and welcoming. - invitations may be threatening and restrictive . - let us hope Linda's invitation is 'even-handed' ....... regards -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/17/2017 12:46 PM, ellanios82 wrote:
On 17/11/17 18:48, Per Jessen wrote:
like to see people's opinion expressed here too, especially on such matters.
- invitations can be open-hearted and welcoming.
- invitations may be threatening and restrictive .
- let us hope Linda's invitation is 'even-handed'
Lets hope Linda has enough sense to move on and forget this list. Maybe even this distro. I seriously do not understand why this list exists any more, with the anointed being so hostile to its existence, and so quick to threaten and punish, they would be better to kill it off, suffer the bad press, and be done with it. We would probably all be better off to just decamp to a forum somewhere out of their control. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 17/11/2017 à 22:13, John Andersen a écrit :
We would probably all be better off to just decamp to a forum somewhere out of their control.
but we are not better received on forums... jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* jdd@dodin.org <jdd@dodin.org> [11-17-17 16:53]:
Le 17/11/2017 à 22:13, John Andersen a écrit :
We would probably all be better off to just decamp to a forum somewhere out of their control.
but we are not better received on forums...
you would be if you joined a forum not *dedicated* to support. but if you want a list to freely discuss anything, why here and not opensuse-offtopic? -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 17/11/2017 à 23:20, Patrick Shanahan a écrit :
* jdd@dodin.org <jdd@dodin.org> [11-17-17 16:53]:
but we are not better received on forums...
you would be if you joined a forum not *dedicated* to support.
it's what I did but if you
want a list to freely discuss anything, why here and not opensuse-offtopic?
because for me "offtopic" is "unrelated to openSUSE", and "opensuse" is "all what is related to openSUSE"... and it was always like this since the beginning IMHO it could be recommended to go to -project, eventually jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
jdd@dodin.org wrote:
Le 17/11/2017 à 23:20, Patrick Shanahan a écrit :
* jdd@dodin.org <jdd@dodin.org> [11-17-17 16:53]:
but we are not better received on forums...
you would be if you joined a forum not *dedicated* to support.
it's what I did
but if you
want a list to freely discuss anything, why here and not opensuse-offtopic?
because for me "offtopic" is "unrelated to openSUSE", and "opensuse" is "all what is related to openSUSE"...
Agree, that is how I see it too. Though some topics maybe openSUSE, but with their own lists. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (4.4°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* Per Jessen <per@computer.org> [11-18-17 03:07]:
jdd@dodin.org wrote:
Le 17/11/2017 à 23:20, Patrick Shanahan a écrit :
* jdd@dodin.org <jdd@dodin.org> [11-17-17 16:53]:
but we are not better received on forums...
you would be if you joined a forum not *dedicated* to support.
it's what I did
but if you
want a list to freely discuss anything, why here and not opensuse-offtopic?
because for me "offtopic" is "unrelated to openSUSE", and "opensuse" is "all what is related to openSUSE"...
Agree, that is how I see it too. Though some topics maybe openSUSE, but with their own lists.
well, offtopic is/was intended to address conversation on this list which was offtopic, not necessarily ONLY not being about opensuse but: "Generic questions and User to User support for all the openSUSE distributions" per https://lists.opensuse.org/ "all what is related to openSUSE" is much broader field and that which does not fit the stated topic is therefore belonging to "offtopic". this list is *not* a "catch-all" and "offtopic" is. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 18/11/17 09:20, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* jdd@dodin.org <jdd@dodin.org> [11-17-17 16:53]:
Le 17/11/2017 � 22:13, John Andersen a �crit�:
We would probably all be better off to just decamp to a forum somewhere out of their control.
but we are not better received on forums... you would be if you joined a forum not *dedicated* to support. but if you want a list to freely discuss anything, why here and not opensuse-offtopic?
Patrick, you have read many times that there is available in each mail client the feature of "bit-bucketing" post by the use of message filters Or even, as one has in Thunderbird, the ability to simply ignoring whole threads which are not to one's liking. You also know that this list, as others except offtopic, are "self-balancing" or "self-regulating" whereby people point out to someone that there posts are beginning to be irritating and this done mostly via private mail. This has been going on for years and years -- at least since I have been a subscriber to this list (can't remamber when I first sub-ed to this list :-)). In any case threads which apparently annoy you don't last for long; they die a natural death without anyone trying to put them to death. A gripe or anger if not allowed to be expressed but stomped on and sent "undergorund" will only fester and express itself in other ways which may be more harmful in the end to the person/organisation against whom the angst is being suppressed. You know the old PR adage that every complaint is made known to at least 20 people but praise is spread only to 2 or possibly 3 people. (The numbers may be wrong: I am quoting from -- what remains of :-D -- memory.) For example, I can see that this exchange between us re the use of this list is something which should peter out and the discussion return to matter of Community members being, well, banned. BC -- "You should never argue about politics or religion. Or anything else if you're going to come out with crap like that." Anonymous circa 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 18/11/17 08:51, jdd@dodin.org wrote:
Le 17/11/2017 à 22:13, John Andersen a écrit :
We would probably all be better off to just decamp to a forum somewhere out of their control.
but we are not better received on forums...
Hmm, interesting... 'Here and there'.... I do not participate in the Forums, never have, so do you think that there is some connection between 'there and here' --eg, Moderators, participants, whoever? BC -- "You should never argue about politics or religion. Or anything else if you're going to come out with crap like that." Anonymous circa 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 18/11/17 08:13, John Andersen wrote:
On 11/17/2017 12:46 PM, ellanios82 wrote:
On 17/11/17 18:48, Per Jessen wrote:
like to see people's opinion expressed here too, especially on such matters. - invitations can be open-hearted and welcoming.
- invitations may be threatening and restrictive .
- let us hope Linda's invitation is 'even-handed'
Lets hope Linda has enough sense to move on and forget this list. Maybe even this distro.
I seriously do not understand why this list exists any more, with the anointed being so hostile to its existence, and so quick to threaten and punish, they would be better to kill it off, suffer the bad press, and be done with it.
We would probably all be better off to just decamp to a forum somewhere out of their control.
You mean to do what SABDFL did in another Linux distro where he didn't like what was being said about the distro in one of the lists and so the list was closed? BC -- "You should never argue about politics or religion. Or anything else if you're going to come out with crap like that." Anonymous circa 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 18/11/17 03:48, Per Jessen wrote:
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
Hi all,
FYI: On behalf of the board I sent an email to Linda last monday to settle things and have her ban lifted. Awaiting her reply.
Any comments, discussion off-list please. The opensuse@opensuse.org ML is meant for support, the correct place to let your opinions known to the openSUSE board is by emailing board@opensuse.org. I actually like to see people's opinion expressed here too, especially on such matters.
Seconded -- if this were to be put as a motion. BC -- "You should never argue about politics or religion. Or anything else if you're going to come out with crap like that." Anonymous circa 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 18/11/17 01:58, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
Hi all,
FYI: On behalf of the board I sent an email to Linda last monday to settle things and have her ban lifted. Awaiting her reply.
Any comments, discussion off-list please. The opensuse@opensuse.org ML is meant for support, the correct place to let your opinions known to the openSUSE board is by emailing board@opensuse.org.
The maillist for the board is not listed as one to which one can subscribe and therefore there can be no discussion held there by the openSUSE Community Members on topics such as the current one. It is therefore necessary to have discussions held here so that the maximum number of people can express their observations and for others to comment on them. If it is suggested that discussions such as this are taken to opensuse-project then that would not be useful since that list has ~640 subscribers whereas opensuse (ie, this list) has ~1210 subscribers. (Interesting to note that these statistics were last updated in July 2015 :-(.) BC -- "You should never argue about politics or religion. Or anything else if you're going to come out with crap like that." Anonymous circa 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (16)
-
Andrei Borzenkov -
Anton Aylward -
Basil Chupin -
Carlos E. R. -
Christopher Myers -
David C. Rankin -
ellanios82 -
Harrie Baken -
jdd＠dodin.org -
John Andersen -
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink -
michael norman -
Patrick Shanahan -
Per Jessen -
Radule Šoškić -
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