Re: [SLE] Grab a Moz nightly for the cause.
Hi, ** > My problem with mozilla is that it seems to suck *irreparably*. ** > ** > We all know that mozilla is going to kick ass *real soon now*, but the ** > project is clearly not performing for whatever reasons. Somebody needs ** > to have a mercy and pull the plug. All those volunteers are clearly ** > wonderful people donating their time to mozilla - do something really ** > useful with your time - like make a sandwich and give it to the ** > homeless! ** ** Mozilla is beta software. If you don't like it, get involved ** and help improve it. If you don't want to do that, fine. ** It's free and open, so if it doesn't meet your expectations, ** don't use it. No one is interested in your opinions on what ** the Mozilla developers should do with their project. This is not intended to start flames, so please read, think and then produce positive comments rather than just shooting these points down out of the sky. I live in the real world, not where Mozilla wins, but where it's got to slot in with the others and keep ahead to stay alive. It's currently not doing very well...read on Quote from a web designer friend who I just forwarded this to:- | IMHO, the developers shouldnt go making sandwiches, but go and | rip out all the base Netscape code and make something that | renders pages the way the other browsers do. Then it'd make | about x million designers and customers happy. | | Personally speaking, I'm damn fed up of writing compatible | pages to satisfy Netscape/Mozilla when Konqueror, IE, Opera | and NetPositive all render a page virtually identically and | more importantly to the standards. Even, dare I say it, IE | adheres to the standards better. | | Mozilla will fail because it's the odd one out. | | Come on. Stop arguing. Face the facts. Netscape make look | nice with a new front end but it's the same old 5 year old | obselete crap. I share this opinion allthough not quite as strongly. Netscape makes peoples lives harder. Mozilla is just as bad at the moment. I don't write pages with Netscape compatibility in mind any more as it's not worth my time and/or effort. - Chris. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
| IMHO, the developers shouldnt go making sandwiches, but go and | rip out all the base Netscape code and make something that | renders pages the way the other browsers do. Then it'd make | about x million designers and customers happy. | | Personally speaking, I'm damn fed up of writing compatible | pages to satisfy Netscape/Mozilla when Konqueror, IE, Opera | and NetPositive all render a page virtually identically and | more importantly to the standards. Even, dare I say it, IE | adheres to the standards better. | | Mozilla will fail because it's the odd one out. | | Come on. Stop arguing. Face the facts. Netscape make look | nice with a new front end but it's the same old 5 year old | obselete crap.
I'm not sure where to start here. :) Mozilla is not Netscape, so it's not 5 year old obsolete crap. It's brand new and uses the official, open standards in place today. IE only adheres to the "standards" because Microsoft has the weight to say "ignore the W3C, *this* is the standard". Everyone else follows their lead, which has basically put Microsoft in charge of the de facto standard for the Internet. That is exactly what they want - control over the 'net.
I share this opinion allthough not quite as strongly. Netscape makes peoples lives harder. Mozilla is just as bad at the moment. I don't write pages with Netscape compatibility in mind any more as it's not worth my time and/or effort.
I fully sympathise with your position, but this is a battle the free world just cannot afford to loose. There are open standards and there is Microsoft's standard. The open standard must win, otherwise Redmond controls the 'net. Heaven help us if we allow ourselves to get into a position where a closed proprietary standard controls the method of data exchange over the web in same way one controls the exchange of word processed documents today. Forget Netscape v4.xx, that battle is long lost. Web standards will boil down to 2 things: the open W3C way, with Mozilla based browsers, and the closed way, with IE based browsers. It's going to be a major inconvenience, and each day that passes without a gold Mozilla release the problem gets a bit worse, but Mozilla must be supported. Unless, of course, you're going to be happy to buy Windows2002 and Office2002 in order to surf the net. Ahem. :-} I'll get off this soapbox now. :) -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
On this topic, all I want to say is direct you to the W3C site and have a look at the latest suit between MickeySoft and W3C. Bill is employing his old obfuscation techniques to confuse the marketplace. The same way as they attempted to kill Java by releasing a proprietary version of Java. Thank god Sun sued them or we'd have MS Java and everyone else's java. That'd mean you'd have to author software to support both standards.. in time people would just support MS since it had the biggest market and most widely used commercial development tools. Now they are dropping support for some of the W3C standards like CCS.. which is how they confuse the market place, then take it over. It is the history of MS. I remember the days when all the wordprocessor developers released a programmers kit to allow other companies to convert their document formats to other wordprocessors. A few years back when MS word had become the dominant WP on the market, MS stopped publishing their format and later proceeded to sue other companies that had worked out their document format for supposedly reverse engining.. of course MS would never reverse engineer anything would they? not stacker etc ... Open standards protect the consumer from being controlled by militant capitalists. That's my bitch for the day :) Chris On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:03:43 +0100, Derek Fountain wrote:
I fully sympathise with your position, but this is a battle the free world just cannot afford to loose. There are open standards and there is Microsoft's standard. The open standard must win, otherwise Redmond controls the 'net. Heaven help us if we allow ourselves to get into a position where a closed proprietary standard controls the method of data exchange over the web in same way one controls the exchange of word processed documents today.
Forget Netscape v4.xx, that battle is long lost. Web standards will boil down to 2 things: the open W3C way, with Mozilla based browsers, and the closed way, with IE based browsers. It's going to be a major inconvenience, and each day that passes without a gold Mozilla release the problem gets a bit worse, but Mozilla must be supported. Unless, of course, you're going to be happy to buy Windows2002 and Office2002 in order to surf the net.
Ahem. :-} I'll get off this soapbox now. :)
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On Wed, Aug 16, 2000 at 10:26:29AM +0100, Chris.Smith@raytheon.co.uk wrote:
|Even, dare I say it, IE | adheres to the standards better. | | Mozilla will fail because it's the odd one out. | | Come on. Stop arguing. Face the facts. Netscape make look | nice with a new front end but it's the same old 5 year old | obselete crap.
I share this opinion allthough not quite as strongly. Netscape makes peoples lives harder. Mozilla is just as bad at the moment. I don't write pages with Netscape compatibility in mind any more as it's not worth my time and/or effort.
Mozilla does make things harder. If you don't like standards! Mozilla is standards complient unlike Internet Exploder. But hey, if you feel that you really need to use "bmp"s and "\"s in Web pages and URLs then... Victor -- "Let's get it straight: copyright infringement is not piracy. No one wears eye patches and cries 'Aargh!' as they download the latest Britney Spears..." -------------------------------------------------- As posted on Slashdot by Gilroy, August 8, 2000 -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
Ok, I feel that now, in the light of day, I can put a bit more structure into my "rant": 1. Mozilla is *not* beta software - all other beta software I've used is *mostly* useable and rather robust. Mozilla is in perpetual *alpha*. 2. Some people seem to have an attitude "He's a son of a bitch, but he's *our* son of a bitch" towards mozilla. It's wrong - mozilla is more of a black sheep that gives the whole herd a bad reputation. 3. Who was it who said a few years ago that "web is a platform"? Like it or not, but for many (most?!) people web browser is a prime application. If you insist on mozilla being *The Linux Browser*, then this whole talk "Linux is ready for the desktop, linux is stable(r) and better than MSWindows" becomes utter nonsense even before Office software comes into picture. 4. Did I ever complained about Netscape or mozilla rendering web pages incorrectly? No! All I'm asking of it is not to crash randomly and without explanation. If you encounter something you can't parse, just say so. 5. Is IE the reason why mozilla's life expectancy is just a few minutes (and about 30 seconds if more than one window is open)? No! Then mozilla would've crashed consistently on the same "IE-optimized" sites. In real life it may or may not crash on any given web page (even if that page is reached through the same path - so browser's internal state should be the same). 6. I understand that the great difficulty is in rendering the document that mixes logical and visual layout, and may be a program in itself. So, perhaps, mozilla is bulletproof when Java and JavaScript are turned off? Yeah, right! 7. I don't want to blame mozilla people or tell them what to do with their lives. I only ask them to get off their high horse and take off those "Crusader for W3C" robes. IE will continue to set the de-facto standards until enough people use something other than IE. Being "200% standards compatible" leads them nowhere in reality 80% of the sites use 20% of the feature set. AOL started their rise to a huge monster they are with a browser that was feature-limited, but stable - hint! hint! Mozilla's Gecko engine has this great opportunity to impose itself upon the world and IE-centric web developers, but only if is bulletproof enough to be included in the new AOL client. -- ET. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
participants (5)
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admin＠brevsville.com.au -
Chris.Smith＠raytheon.co.uk -
eugene_tyurin＠yahoo.com -
fountai＠hursley.ibm.com -
vcardona＠home.com