-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Bernhard Walle wrote:

Hello,

* Pascal Bleser [2006-11-11 11:10]:

...

Indeed, and with Java it's actually part of a standard. Not only Swing, but also Servlet/JSP/JSF (web presentation layer), EJBs (remoting components), JMS (pub-sub and point-to-point messaging), JPA (ORM persistence), ...... and tons of JSRs as part of the Java Community Process: http://jcp.org/ That's definitely a huge difference between Java and .NET ;)

Java is a Standard? Since when?

I never said that Java itself is a standard (as of ISO/ECMA). Java has a specification though, that specification being defined by Sun and any member of the Java Community Process (JCP): http://jcp.org/ Swing, the JDK, Servlet/JSP/JSF, EJBs, JMS, JEE, ... are Java standards. They have a specification, and anyone can join the JCP and contribute/influence those standards through the various JSRs (Java Specification Requests). While Java itself is not ISO or ECMA (nor the JSRs), they have a specification and it's open to anyone to participate: http://jcp.org/en/participation/membership (must pay a fee though, except for individuals) The point is not about being ISO or ECMA but implementing against an open specification and having validation test suites. As an example, JBoss provides a JPA (Java Persistence API - JSR 220) through Hibernate 3.x They implement it against an open specification and anyone is free to do so. The spec is open to anyone - in this case: http://jcp.org/aboutJava/communityprocess/final/jsr220/index.html Each JSR is required to have a TCK (Technology Compatibility Kit) to validate implementations: http://jcp.org/en/resources/tdk Sorry but I didn't see the WinForms or ASP.NET specification anywhere, nor do I doubt that it's an open specification free for anyone to view and implement, nor is there a compatibility test suite for implementations thereof. cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFVarnr3NMWliFcXcRAibLAKCQEUlRn+sMzz5Kq3B6CFtLRPTqZACfW7My SwpyM7LaRSvVKa0gsq83fDc= =uogK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday 11 November 2006 02:10, Pascal Bleser wrote:

Kai Ponte wrote:

...

In light of the recent agreement with MS and Novell, this is interesting to note on this list. I don't know how many of you use Mono, but it is worth noting.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061109-8190.html

http://www.go-mono.com/archive/1.2/

"An important milestone leading up to Novell's goal of .NET 2.0 support, the inclusion of the WinForms API in Mono 1.2 significantly simplifies the process of porting .NET applications from Windows to Linux and other supported platforms. Developers can now use WinForms to produce cross-platform compatible user interfaces for .NET applications."

Umm... Well, nice, but AFAIK WinForms is not anywhere near being part of the ECMA "standard" (as isn't ASP.NET). http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/netframework/aa569283.aspx http://www.thescripts.com/forum/thread48750.html

Well, no. I wouldn't expect WinForms to at all be part of the standard. I'd only expect them to be included in MS Software. I'm just mentioning it because you weren't able to use WinForms in previous versions under Windows.

...

...

The cool thing about this, is that I can compile it in either Linux or Wintendo and it will run in both. I've copied the resulting .exe file to my pen drive and ran it directly on Win2K and WinXP systems.

...but then Java does the same thing, right?

Indeed, and with Java it's actually part of a standard. Not only Swing, but also Servlet/JSP/JSF (web presentation layer), EJBs (remoting components), JMS (pub-sub and point-to-point messaging), JPA (ORM persistence), ...... and tons of JSRs as part of the Java Community Process: http://jcp.org/ That's definitely a huge difference between Java and .NET ;)

Yeah, but all those acronyms tend to confuse me. I start hearing things like EJB, ANT, SWING, ORM and whatnot and I just shut off. Gimme something simple to develop with. :)

I mean, Sun has TCKs to validate that standard implementations (e.g. Tomcat's or Jetty's Servlet impl, or JBoss' JPA impl) do comply.

As WinForms and ASP.NET are no standards but proprietary (and belonging to MS), there are at least two issues: - who/what is going to validate Mono's implementation as compliant with WinForms ? well, the developers, by testing... um..

That's what's going to happen.

- who/what will guarantee there won't be a lawsuit against Mono because they're implementing a proprietary API that belongs to MS ? a deal... ? possibly ;)

LOL! Now, what Linux distribution vendor would ever enter into an agreement with Microsoft? That just seems silly! -- kai www.perfectreign.com || www.4thedadz.com me no spoof'em! where you hide princess tigerlilly? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org