Re: [SuSE Linux] Letter to editor.... keeps Linux on the badlist
I am a consultant mainly working in Network Security, and do about 900f my work with Linux. Actually, it used to be about 50% but now that Network Associates has ported Cybercop Scanner to Linux, its usability has increased greatly for me. One thing I have noticed is that there is a very severe dislike for Linux in the corporate business world. Linux bashing is becoming very popular, led by the Microsoft ringleader himself, Bill Gates. Its success is to the point that nowdays I can only tell my clients I use "Unix" because as soon as I say the word Linux, most company directors get a sour taste in their mouths. What is the reason for this? How is it that Microsoft bashing Linux is so much more widely accepted as truth? This is simple: there is a major difference to how Linuxies argue their stance that will always keep Linux number one on the public blacklist. Microsoft and other Windows-folk continue to call Linux by its proper name. Why it is that Linuxies prefer to use names like Windoze, Microshit, Internet Exploiter, etc, is beyond me. This is an annoying "feature" very particular to Linux and FreeBSD that is virtually nonexistant to the professional operating system world (SCO, IRIX, Solaris, etc) And there are constant references about Microsoft users being somehow inept or stupid. Offending people in this manner only serves to make us Linuxies all look very childish. There are several operating systems that are far superior to Linux, but you will not hear them bashing Linux with childish nomenclature reminiscent of the neighborhood children sticking out their tongues and calling you silly names. I do not believe that the letter as posted to the editor of the NT magazine will work to persuade anyone that Linux is anything but the OS of choice for hobbyists and mouthy teenagers. Too bad, because other than the fact that it appears to have been written by someone in grade 7 with a nasty attitude, it holds more than a grain of truth. Having been written by an adult (or at least sounding like an adult, as the case may be) this letter would serve the Linux "community" much better. I've been in the industry long enough to know that if you talk like a child, your opinion is accepted as a child's opinion. Even Microsoft users know that... Karsten Johansson ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at <A HREF="http://www.xoom.com"><A HREF="http://www.xoom.com</A">http://www.xoom.com</A</A>> SPECIAL OFFER: 250 Web Site Templates, Only $29.95! - <A HREF="http://orders.xoom.com/email"><A HREF="http://orders.xoom.com/email</A">http://orders.xoom.com/email</A</A>> -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
Well said. Karsten Johansson wrote:
I am a consultant mainly working in Network Security, and do about 900f my work with Linux. Actually, it used to be about 50% but now that Network Associates has ported Cybercop Scanner to Linux, its usability has increased greatly for me.
One thing I have noticed is that there is a very severe dislike for Linux in the corporate business world. Linux bashing is becoming very popular, led by the Microsoft ringleader himself, Bill Gates. Its success is to the point that nowdays I can only tell my clients I use "Unix" because as soon as I say the word Linux, most company directors get a sour taste in their mouths.
What is the reason for this? How is it that Microsoft bashing Linux is so much more widely accepted as truth? This is simple: there is a major difference to how Linuxies argue their stance that will always keep Linux number one on the public blacklist.
Microsoft and other Windows-folk continue to call Linux by its proper name. Why it is that Linuxies prefer to use names like Windoze, Microshit, Internet Exploiter, etc, is beyond me. This is an annoying "feature" very particular to Linux and FreeBSD that is virtually nonexistant to the professional operating system world (SCO, IRIX, Solaris, etc) And there are constant references about Microsoft users being somehow inept or stupid. Offending people in this manner only serves to make us Linuxies all look very childish.
There are several operating systems that are far superior to Linux, but you will not hear them bashing Linux with childish nomenclature reminiscent of the neighborhood children sticking out their tongues and calling you silly names.
I do not believe that the letter as posted to the editor of the NT magazine will work to persuade anyone that Linux is anything but the OS of choice for hobbyists and mouthy teenagers. Too bad, because other than the fact that it appears to have been written by someone in grade 7 with a nasty attitude, it holds more than a grain of truth. Having been written by an adult (or at least sounding like an adult, as the case may be) this letter would serve the Linux "community" much better.
I've been in the industry long enough to know that if you talk like a child, your opinion is accepted as a child's opinion. Even Microsoft users know that...
Karsten Johansson
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<PRE> begin:vcard n:Carpenter;Allen tel;work:(847) 578-5549 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Allegiance Healthcare;Information Technology version:2.1 email;internet:carpena@allegiance.net, ozyman@easyliving.com title:Central Systems Administrator adr;quoted-printable:;;1400 Waukegan Road=0D=0ABuilding MPDS;McGaw Park;IL;60085; fn:Allen Carpenter end:vcard
Are we picking up stray posts from linux_advocacy@boring_corporate_wankers.com ? ;-) -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
Karsten, I agree with a lot of what you have said, but you should know this. I am on several mailing lists that have to deal with Unix, Windows, and software in general. I see very high level Unix guys bashing M$ all the time like children. This behavior is not indigenous to Linux and freeBSD users. It appears all the time on bugtraq, solaris and other newslists that I am on. It is the behavior of people who feel as if they must prove something to the world or that they don't have enough self-esteem to just go " I use this, and if you use Microsoft or whatever..then that's fine, but you might try this and here are the reasons why..." Instead they just act like the jocks that use to make fun of me or other in high school..calling names and generally showing their lack of intelligence. I worry about the fact that we " Linux users " get a bad rap from the sub-moronic zealots out there with something to prove. It's sad really. Oh well, I guess we shall just have to out shine those dimwits. :) TTFN,
I am a consultant mainly working in Network Security, and do about 900f my work with Linux. Actually, it used to be about 50% but now that Network Associates has ported Cybercop Scanner to Linux, its usability has increased greatly for me.
One thing I have noticed is that there is a very severe dislike for Linux in the corporate business world. Linux bashing is becoming very popular, led by the Microsoft ringleader himself, Bill Gates. Its success is to the point that nowdays I can only tell my clients I use "Unix" because as soon as I say the word Linux, most company directors get a sour taste in their mouths.
What is the reason for this? How is it that Microsoft bashing Linux is so much more widely accepted as truth? This is simple: there is a major difference to how Linuxies argue their stance that will always keep Linux number one on the public blacklist.
Microsoft and other Windows-folk continue to call Linux by its proper name. Why it is that Linuxies prefer to use names like Windoze, Microshit, Internet Exploiter, etc, is beyond me. This is an annoying "feature" very particular to Linux and FreeBSD that is virtually nonexistant to the professional operating system world (SCO, IRIX, Solaris, etc) And there are constant references about Microsoft users being somehow inept or stupid. Offending people in this manner only serves to make us Linuxies all look very childish.
There are several operating systems that are far superior to Linux, but you will not hear them bashing Linux with childish nomenclature reminiscent of the neighborhood children sticking out their tongues and calling you silly names.
I do not believe that the letter as posted to the editor of the NT magazine will work to persuade anyone that Linux is anything but the OS of choice for hobbyists and mouthy teenagers. Too bad, because other than the fact that it appears to have been written by someone in grade 7 with a nasty attitude, it holds more than a grain of truth. Having been written by an adult (or at least sounding like an adult, as the case may be) this letter would serve the Linux "community" much better.
I've been in the industry long enough to know that if you talk like a child, your opinion is accepted as a child's opinion. Even Microsoft users know that...
Karsten Johansson
-- Ben Rosenberg ----------------||--------------------- "Whatever separates you from the truth, throw it away, it will vanish anyhow." ----------------||--------------------- <A HREF="mailto:sinthetk@inlink.com">mailto:sinthetk@inlink.com</A> -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
Karsten Johansson wrote:
One thing I have noticed is that there is a very severe dislike for Linux in the corporate business world. Linux bashing is becoming very popular, led by the Microsoft ringleader himself, Bill Gates.
What is the reason for this? How is it that Microsoft bashing Linux is so much more widely accepted as truth?
Well, "afterburners on", let the flames fly...... The reason that corporate America likes to bash Linux and support Microsoft boils down to one thing... the stock market. The big corporations scratch each others backs to keep the stock market rising..this is the primary concern for most chief executives...and the lackeys below echo the leader's wishes. Microsoft charges exorbitant prices for things which linux gives away for free...that ain't good for stock prices. So they like to trash linux. They are especially sensitive because Linux actually IS better than Windows, even NT.
Microsoft and other Windows-folk continue to call Linux by its proper name.
That is because they respect it, they would look like fools to criticize the only decent server available for the PC. Linux afficienados use names to criticize Windows because they know just about everyone has experienced window's systems going down for no good reason, and they see that big pile of software, which costs thousands, and is useless. Not to mention all the secret codes being kept on their computers in the registry. Microsoft got away with fooling alot of people into thinking it was the best OS back in the days of dos and windows3.1. Nowadays, people are becoming very intelligent about the inner workings of an OS, and anyone who knows what they are doing, WILL NOT use an OS whose source code is kept secret. What kind of secret government operation is Gate's hiding?
I do not believe that the letter as posted to the editor of the NT magazine will work to persuade anyone that Linux is anything but the OS of choice for hobbyists and mouthy teenagers. Too bad, because other than the fact that it appears to have been written by someone in grade 7 with a nasty attitude, it holds more than a grain of truth. Having been written by an adult (or at least sounding like an adult, as the case may be) this letter would serve the Linux "community" much better.
Now, now, calm down little windows user.... you sound like a 7th grader with those comments. I'll bet Fred Miller's network can out-perform your Window's network, nah na-nah na na-nah.......... -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
zentara wrote: <snip>
I do not believe that the letter as posted to the editor of the NT magazine will work to persuade anyone that Linux is anything but the OS of choice for hobbyists and mouthy teenagers. Too bad, because other than the fact that it appears to have been written by someone in grade 7 with a nasty attitude, it holds more than a grain of truth. Having been written by an adult (or at least sounding like an adult, as the case may be) this letter would serve the Linux "community" much better.
Now, now, calm down little windows user.... you sound like a 7th grader with those comments. I'll bet Fred Miller's network can out-perform your Window's network, nah na-nah na na-nah..........
rof,llll... Windows users are spitting into the wind. Three things drive Linux: it is stable, it is fast and it costs next to nothing. Especially the last. Money talks louder than anything else, and people are beginning to see exactly how much the windows OS really costs. We just completed a $500,000 upgrade to Win95 where I work. Forgetting Win98 and supposing that NT-xxxx really is released on 10/6/99 as Gates claims (again), will my agency spend another half-million bucks in hardware, software and license upgrade costs just to run Word 2000? When pigs fly. Even if we purchased a retail SuSE package for each workstation and server, and ditto for WP8 or applix we are talking less than $50,000. And, we wouldn't need to junk the old 486's and P75 or P90s. Rather than pumping more money into Gate's mansion, some of that savings could go to wages and benefits. (Hear that unions?) -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
I have a question about RPM's. Why are they so much better then source? I have used source for the last 5 years. When I try to use RPM's it's usually a sticky situation. Thanks for any input. :) -- Ben Rosenberg ----------------||--------------------- "Whatever separates you from the truth, throw it away, it will vanish anyhow." ----------------||--------------------- <A HREF="mailto:sinthetk@inlink.com">mailto:sinthetk@inlink.com</A> -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
On 27 Mar, Benjamin A. Rosenberg wrote:
I have a question about RPM's. Why are they so much better then source? I have used source for the last 5 years. When I try to use RPM's it's usually a sticky situation.
Thanks for any input. :)
Just my extremely subjective opinion and I use both. I like rpms for some things like I downloaded rpms for the latest gnome stuff because I wanted to see gnome running but then I decided I wanted to compile things so I found that some of the program's configure scripts had problems so I installed gtk/glib. I tend to use an rpm for something quick that is packaged on the suse 6 cd's. As an example, after doing the gnome thing, gimp would not run because of failed dependencies for gtk. The gnome list informed me that you can actually have two versions of gtk installed hence the gtkn and glibn on the gnome site. I then installed the gtk and glib rpms from the suse cd. I still could not manually configure gimp 1.0.2 due to some issues with gtk or gtkn or gtk devel. When I decided I wanted the gimp, I did a yast install and all it wanted was aalib which I selected for auto. So my answer is that I use the best of both worlds. I think rpm's work for me but I like the control of configuring. I like configuring also but if I want something that seems rather complex and someone has built an rpm spec for it, I tend to grab it. I am a wimp I guess; but I still like the easy way that rpm offers. I have been stung a few times like with the craziness surrounding the gtk upgrade path with rpms. I also have installed my own self-rolled libs and had rpm installs fail but configures, make, and make installs work for the same program. I gave some thought to compiling kde 1.1 until I saw the rpms for 1.1 on suse's update site. Too much of a temptation for me :) -- Michael Perry mperry@basin.com ---------------------- -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
I like rpms because they are so easy to uninstall. I have no clue how to remove tar.gz installs. Anyone care to give lessons? Tim Michael Perry wrote:
On 27 Mar, Benjamin A. Rosenberg wrote:
I have a question about RPM's. Why are they so much better then source? I have used source for the last 5 years. When I try to use RPM's it's usually a sticky situation.
Thanks for any input. :)
Just my extremely subjective opinion and I use both. I like rpms for some things like I downloaded rpms for the latest gnome stuff because I wanted to see gnome running but then I decided I wanted to compile things so I found that some of the program's configure scripts had problems so I installed gtk/glib. I tend to use an rpm for something quick that is packaged on the suse 6 cd's. As an example, after doing the gnome thing, gimp would not run because of failed dependencies for gtk. The gnome list informed me that you can actually have two versions of gtk installed hence the gtkn and glibn on the gnome site. I then installed the gtk and glib rpms from the suse cd. I still could not manually configure gimp 1.0.2 due to some issues with gtk or gtkn or gtk devel. When I decided I wanted the gimp, I did a yast install and all it wanted was aalib which I selected for auto.
So my answer is that I use the best of both worlds. I think rpm's work for me but I like the control of configuring. I like configuring also but if I want something that seems rather complex and someone has built an rpm spec for it, I tend to grab it. I am a wimp I guess; but I still like the easy way that rpm offers. I have been stung a few times like with the craziness surrounding the gtk upgrade path with rpms. I also have installed my own self-rolled libs and had rpm installs fail but configures, make, and make installs work for the same program.
I gave some thought to compiling kde 1.1 until I saw the rpms for 1.1 on suse's update site. Too much of a temptation for me :)
-- Michael Perry mperry@basin.com ----------------------
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Hi, On Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 08:14 -0500, Tim Shann wrote:
I like rpms because they are so easy to uninstall. I have no clue how to remove tar.gz installs. Anyone care to give lessons?
Use instmon. It creates a list of files that have been installed. Ciao, Stefan -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
Tim Shann wrote:
I like rpms because they are so easy to uninstall. I have no clue how to remove tar.gz installs. Anyone care to give lessons?
Removing tar.gz packages is more difficult if you don't keep track of what is getting installed. You are right. I usually just remove the directory that it creates and installs itself in, if it just puts a binary in /usr/bin, then just delete that binary. I ususally leave the man pages in there. Midnight Commander sure comes in handy for doing those removals. -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
In addition to what Zentara said, Tarballs usually don't update config files either, nor do they automatically install environmental variables. Usually, when you install, everything goes into one directory except for the executable and library files. You can use MC to browse a tarball before installing to see what needs to be done and where things are going, and also to see where things were put and what you need to do to uninstall. Despite this, I prefer tarballs over rpm because I have more control. JLK zentara wrote:
Tim Shann wrote:
I like rpms because they are so easy to uninstall. I have no clue how to remove tar.gz installs. Anyone care to give lessons?
Removing tar.gz packages is more difficult if you don't keep track of what is getting installed. You are right.
I usually just remove the directory that it creates and installs itself in, if it just puts a binary in /usr/bin, then just delete that binary. I ususally leave the man pages in there. Midnight Commander sure comes in handy for doing those removals. --
-- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
Removing a tar.gz? The only pointer I can think of in this regard, is if the tar.gz was for a program that required compilation of source. (This is probably obvious, but I will state it anyway.) A 'make install' will generally put the programs where you need them, and a 'make deinstall' or sometimes a 'make clean' will remove them. On 28-Mar-99 Tim Shann wrote:
I like rpms because they are so easy to uninstall. I have no clue how to remove tar.gz installs. Anyone care to give lessons?
Tim
Michael Perry wrote:
On 27 Mar, Benjamin A. Rosenberg wrote:
I have a question about RPM's. Why are they so much better then source? I have used source for the last 5 years. When I try to use RPM's it's usually a sticky situation.
Thanks for any input. :)
Just my extremely subjective opinion and I use both. I like rpms for some things like I downloaded rpms for the latest gnome stuff because I wanted to see gnome running but then I decided I wanted to compile things so I found that some of the program's configure scripts had problems so I installed gtk/glib. I tend to use an rpm for something quick that is packaged on the suse 6 cd's. As an example, after doing the gnome thing, gimp would not run because of failed dependencies for gtk. The gnome list informed me that you can actually have two versions of gtk installed hence the gtkn and glibn on the gnome site. I then installed the gtk and glib rpms from the suse cd. I still could not manually configure gimp 1.0.2 due to some issues with gtk or gtkn or gtk devel. When I decided I wanted the gimp, I did a yast install and all it wanted was aalib which I selected for auto.
So my answer is that I use the best of both worlds. I think rpm's work for me but I like the control of configuring. I like configuring also but if I want something that seems rather complex and someone has built an rpm spec for it, I tend to grab it. I am a wimp I guess; but I still like the easy way that rpm offers. I have been stung a few times like with the craziness surrounding the gtk upgrade path with rpms. I also have installed my own self-rolled libs and had rpm installs fail but configures, make, and make installs work for the same program.
I gave some thought to compiling kde 1.1 until I saw the rpms for 1.1 on suse's update site. Too much of a temptation for me :)
-- Michael Perry mperry@basin.com ----------------------
--
----------------------------------- Arlen Carlson <adcarlso@visinet.ca> "I cannot and will not cut my conscience to fit this year's fashions." -- Lillian Hellman This message was sent by XFmail (Linux) -o) /\\ _\_v The penguins are coming... the penguins are coming... ----------------------------------- -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
I appreciate all the advice from everyone the past couple of days. I have saved the info from all of you will put it to good use. Thanks to all. Tim Arlen Carlson wrote:
Removing a tar.gz?
The only pointer I can think of in this regard, is if the tar.gz was for a program that required compilation of source. (This is probably obvious, but I will state it anyway.) A 'make install' will generally put the programs where you need them, and a 'make deinstall' or sometimes a 'make clean' will remove them.
On 28-Mar-99 Tim Shann wrote:
I like rpms because they are so easy to uninstall. I have no clue how to remove tar.gz installs. Anyone care to give lessons?
Tim
Michael Perry wrote:
On 27 Mar, Benjamin A. Rosenberg wrote:
I have a question about RPM's. Why are they so much better then source? I have used source for the last 5 years. When I try to use RPM's it's usually a sticky situation.
Thanks for any input. :)
Just my extremely subjective opinion and I use both. I like rpms for some things like I downloaded rpms for the latest gnome stuff because I wanted to see gnome running but then I decided I wanted to compile things so I found that some of the program's configure scripts had problems so I installed gtk/glib. I tend to use an rpm for something quick that is packaged on the suse 6 cd's. As an example, after doing the gnome thing, gimp would not run because of failed dependencies for gtk. The gnome list informed me that you can actually have two versions of gtk installed hence the gtkn and glibn on the gnome site. I then installed the gtk and glib rpms from the suse cd. I still could not manually configure gimp 1.0.2 due to some issues with gtk or gtkn or gtk devel. When I decided I wanted the gimp, I did a yast install and all it wanted was aalib which I selected for auto.
So my answer is that I use the best of both worlds. I think rpm's work for me but I like the control of configuring. I like configuring also but if I want something that seems rather complex and someone has built an rpm spec for it, I tend to grab it. I am a wimp I guess; but I still like the easy way that rpm offers. I have been stung a few times like with the craziness surrounding the gtk upgrade path with rpms. I also have installed my own self-rolled libs and had rpm installs fail but configures, make, and make installs work for the same program.
I gave some thought to compiling kde 1.1 until I saw the rpms for 1.1 on suse's update site. Too much of a temptation for me :)
-- Michael Perry mperry@basin.com ----------------------
--
----------------------------------- Arlen Carlson <adcarlso@visinet.ca>
"I cannot and will not cut my conscience to fit this year's fashions." -- Lillian Hellman
This message was sent by XFmail (Linux)
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The penguins are coming... the penguins are coming... ----------------------------------- -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
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"Benjamin A. Rosenberg" wrote:
I have a question about RPM's. Why are they so much better then source? I have used source for the last 5 years. When I try to use RPM's it's usually a sticky situation.
Thanks for any input. :)
They are NOT better than source, they are EASIER for end users to install. They are the choice of new users . -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
On Sat, 27 Mar 1999, Benjamin A. Rosenberg wrote:
I have a question about RPM's. Why are they so much better then source? I have used source for the last 5 years. When I try to use RPM's it's usually a sticky situation.
RPMS help you manage your distribution. Do an rpm -qa | more and look at all the things you have installed. Could you imagine keeping track of all that when building from source code? It could become quite tedious, I think. It's easy to query and checkout your apps with RPMS on board. It's a database. I find the RPM system extremely convenient. I only use source for stuff that I'm testing -- and don't expect to have a long shelf-life on my system-- like CVS E and GNOME ( which I am building and erasing at a ridiculous rate ). If you find RPM hard to manage, you might want to check out some of the literature on the topic like MAXIMUM RPM, man pages, docs etc. as it is probably a problem stemming more from a lack of familiarity with the RPM software and how it works than any defficiencies on your part as a user or flaws in the RPM system. I'm a fan of RPM. Just not the biggest fan. It could be better-- but even so, it's pretty good. _____________________________________________________________________________ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- M i c h a e l J o h n s o n - e r o s @ a n d u i n . e l d a r . o r g P o w e r e d by L I N U X : K E R N E L 2 . 2 . 1 Please support Free Software and Open Source !! ____________________________________________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
Michael, Thanks for the tips, but I never really said I didn't know how to use rpm's. I have been with Linux/Unix since Redhat 3.0.3. and before that I was a NeXTSTEP for Intel user..I have just opted for source most of the time and with a lot of software coming in rpm format I just wanted some opinions. I have used pkgadd under fBSD and Solaris..so it's not a big deal. Thanks for the help :)
RPMS help you manage your distribution. Do an rpm -qa | more and look at all the things you have installed. Could you imagine keeping track of all that when building from source code? It could become quite tedious, I think. It's easy to query and checkout your apps with RPMS on board. It's a database. I find the RPM system extremely convenient. I only use source for stuff that I'm testing -- and don't expect to have a long shelf-life on my system-- like CVS E and GNOME ( which I am building and erasing at a ridiculous rate ). If you find RPM hard to manage, you might want to check out some of the literature on the topic like MAXIMUM RPM, man pages, docs etc. as it is probably a problem stemming more from a lack of familiarity with the RPM software and how it works than any defficiencies on your part as a user or flaws in the RPM system.
-- Ben Rosenberg ----------------||--------------------- "Whatever separates you from the truth, throw it away, it will vanish anyhow." ----------------||--------------------- <A HREF="mailto:sinthetk@inlink.com">mailto:sinthetk@inlink.com</A> -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
I share your love of source, but have a hard time denying the efficacy of RPM for managing large bodies of apps. Thanks for your patience Ben. Sorry for jumping to conclusions there. On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Benjamin A. Rosenberg wrote:
Michael,
Thanks for the tips, but I never really said I didn't know how to use rpm's. I have been with Linux/Unix since Redhat 3.0.3. and before that I was a NeXTSTEP for Intel user..I have just opted for source most of the time and with a lot of software coming in rpm format I just wanted some opinions. I have used pkgadd under fBSD and Solaris..so it's not a big deal. Thanks for the help :)
_____________________________________________________________________________ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- M i c h a e l J o h n s o n - e r o s @ a n d u i n . e l d a r . o r g P o w e r e d by L I N U X : K E R N E L 2 . 2 . 1 Please support Free Software and Open Source !! ____________________________________________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
participants (11)
-
adcarlso＠visinet.ca -
hekate＠intergate.bc.ca -
jlkreps＠navix.net -
kick＠c2i.net -
ksaj＠xoommail.com -
mperry＠basin.com -
ozyman＠easyliving.com -
sinthetk＠inlink.com -
stefan.troeger＠wirtschaft.tu-chemnitz.de -
tajc＠goes.com -
zentara＠mindspring.com