[opensuse] Recommend laptop keyboard
The first laptop I ever owned had a fantastic keyboard, made typing a pleasure. Since then the quality of keyboards has gone ever downward... to the point where I don't think people even know what a good keyboard is. Reviews I've read on laptops over at least the past ten years don't even mention the keyboard. The laptop I have now is only a couple years old, but I'm looking to replace it because the keyboard is so horrible. Anyone know of a laptop with what they consider to be an excellent keyboard? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op zaterdag 4 januari 2020 18:34:31 CET schreef ken:
The first laptop I ever owned had a fantastic keyboard, made typing a pleasure. Since then the quality of keyboards has gone ever downward... to the point where I don't think people even know what a good keyboard is. Reviews I've read on laptops over at least the past ten years don't even mention the keyboard. The laptop I have now is only a couple years old, but I'm looking to replace it because the keyboard is so horrible. Anyone know of a laptop with what they consider to be an excellent keyboard? The ASUS Zenbooks
-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
ken wrote:
The first laptop I ever owned had a fantastic keyboard, made typing a pleasure. Since then the quality of keyboards has gone ever downward...
Not laptop - but my Gateway 2000 Anykey keyboard from 1993 is still my favourite. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (4.0°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* Per Jessen <per@computer.org> [01-04-20 12:43]:
ken wrote:
The first laptop I ever owned had a fantastic keyboard, made typing a pleasure. Since then the quality of keyboards has gone ever downward...
Not laptop - but my Gateway 2000 Anykey keyboard from 1993 is still my favourite.
PLUS ONE, and mine is still being used on my main box -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Patrick Shanahan composed on 2020-01-04 15:23 (UTC-0500):
* Per Jessen <per@computer.org> [01-04-20 12:43]:
Not laptop - but my Gateway 2000 Anykey keyboard from 1993 is still my favourite.
PLUS ONE, and mine is still being used on my main box
I hated their rearranged and extra cursor pad keys, so never owned one. I locate my right hand on the keyboard via the inverted T. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northgate_Computers#/media/File:Omnikey102p324... was the best keyboard I ever used. I had them at two different jobs, plus one at home. I still have one, but it's stone dead. This image I created and uploaded. This is a pic I uploaded of two of my three most used keyboards: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ErgoLogicFlexProKB2652.jpg Their touch has gotten dismal, but there's no substitute for the left side function keys tightly proximate to the three shift keys. The fold-up part I only use for cleaning. Also wonderful is Caps key where it belongs next to spacebar (toggled on/of via right-Ctrl-Caps) if you learned touch typing on a typewriter, and Ctrl key closer to the function keys. My #3 most used is the veritable IBM M tank. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> [01-04-20 18:26]:
Patrick Shanahan composed on 2020-01-04 15:23 (UTC-0500):
* Per Jessen <per@computer.org> [01-04-20 12:43]:
Not laptop - but my Gateway 2000 Anykey keyboard from 1993 is still my favourite.
PLUS ONE, and mine is still being used on my main box
I hated their rearranged and extra cursor pad keys, so never owned one. I locate my right hand on the keyboard via the inverted T.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northgate_Computers#/media/File:Omnikey102p324... was the best keyboard I ever used. I had them at two different jobs, plus one at home. I still have one, but it's stone dead. This image I created and uploaded.
This is a pic I uploaded of two of my three most used keyboards: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ErgoLogicFlexProKB2652.jpg
Their touch has gotten dismal, but there's no substitute for the left side function keys tightly proximate to the three shift keys. The fold-up part I only use for cleaning. Also wonderful is Caps key where it belongs next to spacebar (toggled on/of via right-Ctrl-Caps) if you learned touch typing on a typewriter, and Ctrl key closer to the function keys.
the OmniKey and the Gateway 2000 iirc only differed at the arrow keys and I quickly became accustomed to the layout. plus any key may be programmed to perform any key function so one could move the caps key as desired. I believe my keyboard dates to 2001, but at my age memory is not the best attribute. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2020-01-04 12:34 PM, ken wrote:
The first laptop I ever owned had a fantastic keyboard, made typing a pleasure. Since then the quality of keyboards has gone ever downward... to the point where I don't think people even know what a good keyboard is. Reviews I've read on laptops over at least the past ten years don't even mention the keyboard. The laptop I have now is only a couple years old, but I'm looking to replace it because the keyboard is so horrible. Anyone know of a laptop with what they consider to be an excellent keyboard?
Take a look at the business line computer, such as Lenovo ThinkPads. I have an E520, which is OK. BTW, my desktop keyboard is an IBM type M, which is built like a tank and really nice to use. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Quoting James Knott <james.knott@jknott.net>:
On 2020-01-04 12:34 PM, ken wrote:
The first laptop I ever owned had a fantastic keyboard, made typing a pleasure. Since then the quality of keyboards has gone ever downward... to the point where I don't think people even know what a good keyboard is. Reviews I've read on laptops over at least the past ten years don't even mention the keyboard. The laptop I have now is only a couple years old, but I'm looking to replace it because the keyboard is so horrible. Anyone know of a laptop with what they consider to be an excellent keyboard?
Take a look at the business line computer, such as Lenovo ThinkPads. I have an E520, which is OK.
I have a T520, before that a T40 or T41. The T4x had an excellent keyboard. The T520 has a good keyboard. The consensus on the Linux ThinkPad mailing list is that Lenovo continues to go downhill from the IBM keyboards. Each generation has one less row of keys. The Fn keys are now combined with the things like PrtSc, ScrLk, etc. I will not be buying another ThinkPad. Jeffrey -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 04/01/2020 à 19:02, Jeffrey L. Taylor a écrit :
generation has one less row of keys. The Fn keys are now combined with the things like PrtSc, ScrLk, etc.
the worst are keyboards with Fx functions only with Fn compose key. But the keys by itself are pretty good. and don't forget new laptops have half the weight and size of the old ones... (standard is 1.2cm, 1.2Kg, 8Gb ram and 250Gb ssd for 12" laptops) jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 04/01/2020 19.02, Jeffrey L. Taylor wrote: | Quoting James Knott <james.knott@jknott.net>: | I have a T520, before that a T40 or T41. The T4x had an excellent | keyboard. The T520 has a good keyboard. The consensus on the Linux | ThinkPad mailing list is that Lenovo continues to go downhill from | the IBM keyboards. Each generation has one less row of keys. The | Fn keys are now combined with the things like PrtSc, ScrLk, etc. | | I will not be buying another ThinkPad. I have a small laptop, perhaps palmtop, from Lenovo. The top row keys can be fixated to work as function keys (f1, fe, f3...) or as special functions. The default is the second form, mine is the first form. I forget how I did the change, perhaps was a bios function. Or a configuration option that can only be found in Windows, but when activated stays put in Linux, too. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXhDY6gAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1dZ8AKCO40z5/cyFhpXAV3ATsNzjr4gVGgCfdD7f9iJy8gsC8Zf/Spmirqorl7Q= =zw4s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2020-01-04 01:02 PM, Jeffrey L. Taylor wrote:
Each generation has one less row of keys.
I guess they'll soon be down to just the space bar. ;-)
The Fn keys are now combined with the things like PrtSc, ScrLk, etc.
I've got some of those too, however are there any notebooks that don't do that? If you want a smaller package, but keep decent size keys, something has to give. My desktop IBM M keyboard is a few inches wider than the E520 case. Maybe they'll have to bring back the Butterfly keyboard. ;-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_ThinkPad_Butterfly_keyboard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 12:34:31 -0500 ken <gebser@mousecar.com> wrote:
The first laptop I ever owned had a fantastic keyboard, made typing a pleasure. Since then the quality of keyboards has gone ever downward... to the point where I don't think people even know what a good keyboard is. Reviews I've read on laptops over at least the past ten years don't even mention the keyboard. The laptop I have now is only a couple years old, but I'm looking to replace it because the keyboard is so horrible. Anyone know of a laptop with what they consider to be an excellent keyboard?
I have a Logitech K380 Bluetooth Keyboard that I use whenever I'm faced with a touchscreen keyboard :) It seems pretty good to me but I don't use it heavily. Anyway, it may work with your laptop as well (perhaps with a bluetooth dongle if necessary). You could always just plug in the USB keyboard of your choice, of course. Oh and start from a tablet instead of a laptop to minimise duplication :) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 04/01/2020 à 18:58, Dave Howorth a écrit :
Oh and start from a tablet instead of a laptop to minimise duplication :)
I just said that :-)) even a 10" tablet is too large. I think recent small keyboards are much better than ancient ones jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 19:03:06 +0100 "jdd@dodin.org" <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Le 04/01/2020 à 18:58, Dave Howorth a écrit :
Oh and start from a tablet instead of a laptop to minimise duplication :)
I just said that :-)) even a 10" tablet is too large.
No you didn't, you said it after me :P
I think recent small keyboards are much better than ancient ones
jdd
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On 1/4/20 5:18 PM, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 19:03:06 +0100 "jdd@dodin.org" <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Le 04/01/2020 à 18:58, Dave Howorth a écrit :
Oh and start from a tablet instead of a laptop to minimise duplication :)
I just said that :-)) even a 10" tablet is too large.
No you didn't, you said it after me :P
I think recent small keyboards are much better than ancient ones
jdd
I don't know how this thread started, so forgive me if I'm all wet! If you need a real keyboard that you can touch-type on, then you need a full size one! That sort of compromises the situation if a 10" tablet is too big! If you're using the computer at home, you might want a click-key (mechanical switches) unit for better "touch" but if you need to use it in an office environment, the click units are too loud. I'm typing at home, and I have several versions of the IBM model M made probably 35 years ago or so, that work wonderfully--no Windows key, but ALT-ESC does the same job. On the other hand, there exists a keyboard called Mini Key, that's just under 6" wide and less than 3-3/4" from front to back, and works on RF, so your tablet would have to be compatible. The model of this device is UKB-500-RF. It says on the box that it supports "HTPC, Business lecture systems, Video conference system, PC with windows OS, Mac, Linux, PS3, XBOX360" I thought it would work with my "Smart TV" but it does not! I also tried this thing on a Sylvania Netbook, an extremely slow Microsoft-running computer, in immediate vicinity and also connected by usb, and it didn't work. So if you want to try this out buy it from Amazon or someplace where you can send it back if it doesn't work with your hardware. Good luck--doug -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 04/01/2020 à 18:34, ken a écrit :
The first laptop I ever owned had a fantastic keyboard, made typing a pleasure. Since then the quality of keyboards has gone ever downward... to the point where I don't think people even know what a good keyboard is. Reviews I've read on laptops over at least the past ten years don't even mention the keyboard. The laptop I have now is only a couple years old, but I'm looking to replace it because the keyboard is so horrible. Anyone know of a laptop with what they consider to be an excellent keyboard?
I never feel so :-(. That said I use a full size keyboard at home. I have asus or acer, even thinkpad laptops without problem on travel I just tested BT keyboards for tablets and found them very good for the size http://www.dodin.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Bavardages.ClavierPhysiquePourTablett... that said, BlueTooth stability is always questionable, but a 8" Hi8 tablet and one of these keyboards make a nice light solution. Not to write books, of course. jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/01/2020 18:34, ken wrote:
The first laptop I ever owned had a fantastic keyboard, made typing a pleasure. Since then the quality of keyboards has gone ever downward... to the point where I don't think people even know what a good keyboard is. Reviews I've read on laptops over at least the past ten years don't even mention the keyboard. The laptop I have now is only a couple years old, but I'm looking to replace it because the keyboard is so horrible. Anyone know of a laptop with what they consider to be an excellent keyboard?
Now on my third laptop, a Clevo, and for the first time with a chicklet keyboard which I'd never been ravished to try previously. It's not too bad even if the keys are a little 'hard'. The layout is generally good for a 13.3" model, having Home, End, PgUp and PgDn keys down the right hand side adjacent to the Enter and arrow keys, although the infiltration of the left arrow key fools me consistently when trying to do common text edit operations with Ctrl, Shift and arrow keys. My first laptop, a Sony VAIO, was also 13.3" but the keys were very slightly undersized. Then I moved onto an old Dell Latitude D630, a clunky old-fashioned-looking thing but which had a wonderful keyboard. On neither of these first two laptops did I ever suffer the 'accidentally activating the touchpad' syndrome like I do now on the Clevo, despite the KDE Plasma setting being turned on to supposedly avoid this. The Dell had more travel in the keys and felt as good typing on a standalone keyboard. I was just reading over on OMG Ubuntu about the new line of Dell XPS Developer Editions with Linux preloaded: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2020/01/dell-xps-13-developer-edition-tenth-anni... They state that the keys are wider though there's no indication of the travel, depth or general feel/feedback. Similar squared-off keys can be found on one of the recent Clevo models sold by Slimbook (the ProX: https://slimbook.es/) amongst others. gumb -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 04/01/2020 18.34, ken wrote: | The first laptop I ever owned had a fantastic keyboard, made typing | a pleasure. Since then the quality of keyboards has gone ever | downward... to the point where I don't think people even know what | a good keyboard is. Reviews I've read on laptops over at least the | past ten years don't even mention the keyboard. The laptop I have | now is only a couple years old, but I'm looking to replace it | because the keyboard is so horrible. Anyone know of a laptop with | what they consider to be an excellent keyboard? Well, I would use an external keyboard. When travelling, I'd be stuck with the internal, but if I expected to type a lot, I would carry a keyboard. Often people carry a mouse. I remember a time (around 1996) when I travelled with a whole desktop machine, keyboard and mouse. For the monitor I used a borrowed one at destination. The single laptop on the company was not powerful enough, so I travelled with my workhorse! Once by train, another by car. Oh, perhaps by car I might have carried the monitor as well. :-D - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXhDbGAAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1a4JAJ9fO7j/nWyaPpdnMyT6a1re72IpZwCcDj23NYdSbQ3yXyhE72i+w3YSy4Y= =0Uwz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/04/2020 11:34 AM, ken wrote:
The first laptop I ever owned had a fantastic keyboard, made typing a pleasure. Since then the quality of keyboards has gone ever downward... to the point where I don't think people even know what a good keyboard is. Reviews I've read on laptops over at least the past ten years don't even mention the keyboard. The laptop I have now is only a couple years old, but I'm looking to replace it because the keyboard is so horrible. Anyone know of a laptop with what they consider to be an excellent keyboard?
Of the current ones I've touched, HP has a full-sized, reasonably tactile keyboard. (Toshiba's in the past were OK -- so long as full-sized) This from someone that preferred the NMB Mechanical keyboard for the desktop. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
In data sabato 4 gennaio 2020 18:34:31 CET, ken ha scritto:
The first laptop I ever owned had a fantastic keyboard, made typing a pleasure. Since then the quality of keyboards has gone ever downward... to the point where I don't think people even know what a good keyboard is. Reviews I've read on laptops over at least the past ten years don't even mention the keyboard. The laptop I have now is only a couple years old, but I'm looking to replace it because the keyboard is so horrible. Anyone know of a laptop with what they consider to be an excellent keyboard?
Thinkpad X Series if you search for something small. If you "just" have a bad keyboard on your laptop you may be interested in this: https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/ejidhd/ thinkpad_trackpoint_keyboard_ii_new_external/ The official name is: ThinkPad TrackPoint Keyboard II https://heise.cloudimg.io/width/610/q85.png-lossy-85.webp-lossy-85.foil1/_ww... (Image of it on a major German IT publication today). Works with BT. _________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________ Ihre E-Mail-Postf�cher sicher & zentral an einem Ort. Jetzt wechseln und alte E-Mail-Adresse mitnehmen! https://www.eclipso.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op zaterdag 4 januari 2020 18:34:31 CET schreef ken:
Anyone know of a laptop with what they consider to be an excellent keyboard?
Given the other replies here, I wonder if everybody read the OPs question .... -- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
In data domenica 5 gennaio 2020 18:30:17 CET, Knurpht-openSUSE ha scritto:
Op zaterdag 4 januari 2020 18:34:31 CET schreef ken:
Anyone know of a laptop with what they consider to be an excellent keyboard? Given the other replies here, I wonder if everybody read the OPs question .... Not really following your thought? Lenovo X series are well known for their first class keyboards, apt for professionals. What I did not really understand in the OP is "they". Otherwise I did not see really "off topic" replies....
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participants (14)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Dave Howorth -
David C. Rankin -
Doug McGarrett -
Felix Miata -
gumb -
James Knott -
jdd＠dodin.org -
Jeffrey L. Taylor -
ken -
Knurpht-openSUSE -
Patrick Shanahan -
Per Jessen -
stakanov