On Wednesday 03 June 2009 06:50:10 David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. wrote:

On or about Tuesday 02 June 2009 at approximately 10:33:03 Cristian Rodríguez

composed:

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On 02/06/09 11:29, David C. Rankin wrote:

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Thus my question, is the person that the bug is assigned to still working for openSuSE?

Yes.

Thanks Christian,

What are the prospects of getting this fixed? Obviously I can't fix it, but looking at it, it looks like the fix is just to rebuild the package with the correct auth paths and it should work. I maybe wrong, but freenx/ssh auth ought to be fixable.

Anybody else could fix it as well ;). Anybody else volunteering? It seems that the assignee is too busy with other bugs to look at this, AFAIK he has more than 70 bugs. If this is a bug in the package and not something introduced by us, it might make sense to report it upstream, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform / openSUSE, aj@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

On 03/06/09 16:15, Larry Stotler wrote: If this person has that many assigned bugs, then they

shouldn't all be assigned to that person.

In your highly theoretical, ideal world yes, reality is such a bitch sometimes.. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 16:15 -0400, Larry Stotler wrote:

On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 8:00 AM, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

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Anybody else could fix it as well ;). Anybody else volunteering? Since I'm not a programmer - No :-)

This is a false distinction - the world is not divided into "programmers" and "not programmers". There are many ways those not versed in code can help - in ways that cause bugs to get closed faster, and then someone comes around to 'your' bug sooner.

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It seems that the assignee is too busy with other bugs to look at this, AFAIK he has more than 70 bugs. If this is a bug in the package and not something introduced by us, it might make sense to report it upstream, Then why not have a mail sent out to other devs so they can be alerted to the fact that some bugs are being ignored(even if not purposefully)?

As a bug keeper for an Open Source project I can tell you that they almost certainly have bugs of their own and are very much aware of the looming mountain that is Bugzilla. The attitude of my-bugs-don't-get-fixed-so-I'm-going-home is not helpful, to yourself or anyone else. And "more than 70 bugs"??! Hah, I'd love to be him! You'll find the same, and much worse, in any in-house/proprietary bug tracking system. Bugs are many, workers are few.

I thought the idea behind bugzilla was to be able to track bugs and resolutions. If this person has that many assigned bugs, then they shouldn't all be assigned to that person.

So you'd assign them to who? Remeber that bugs are not exclusively available to the person to whom they are assigned. Resources are constrained - that is why there is a thing called an "economy". :) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, 2009-06-04 at 01:17 -0400, Larry Stotler wrote:

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This is a false distinction - the world is not divided into "programmers" and "not programmers". There are many ways those not versed in code can help - in ways that cause bugs to get closed faster, and then someone comes around to 'your' bug sooner. Yep, I beta tested, reported problems, and when I disagreed with the

On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Adam Tauno WIlliams wrote: direction of openSUSE, I was basically told to go away by a small minority because I didn't agree with their "vision".

Okay, again as someone who has worked with/in Open Source projects - a project has to choose a vision / goals / etc... and then it has to pursue them. Some people won't agree with those choices. The video at <http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4216011961522818645&q=google +tech+talks+subversion> does a very good job of covering this, I recommend it to lots of people.

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As a bug keeper for an Open Source project I can tell you that they almost certainly have bugs of their own and are very much aware of the looming mountain that is Bugzilla. The attitude of my-bugs-don't-get-fixed-so-I'm-going-home is not helpful, to yourself or anyone else. People are concerned about what affects them directly. It's a fact of life.

Fortunately for us all (and civilization) this is not true of a very large number of people.

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And "more than 70 bugs"??! Hah, I'd love to be him! You'll find the same, and much worse, in any in-house/proprietary bug tracking system. Bugs are many, workers are few. So you'd assign them to who? Remeber that bugs are not exclusively available to the person to whom they are assigned. Resources are constrained - that is why there is a thing called an "economy". :) Then maybe it's time to re-evaluate what the project is and where it is going. Projects that get too big don't die, they get pushed away by the next big thing. That's how uBuntu has become big. SuSE used to be the distro everyone watched. Now it's second to uBuntu. What happens when the next big thing comes along and openSUSE is pushed even further out?

There is space enough for everyone to survive quite comfortably; and with many bugs it is a case of rising-tide-lifts-all-ships. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 18:04:57 -0400, you wrote:

I stopped reporting bugs because nothing comes of it usually.

That's simply not true! Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 03/06/09 18:56, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Maybe not, but we have many bugs that are not solved in years. It is discouraging for us reporters.

That's because nobody has either time, knowledge or resources to fix the problem. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 03/06/09 19:10, Carlos E. R. wrote:

¡Think! What interest will I have to continue reporting, if the bugs I'm more interested in, are not ever solved? Eventually, I will lose interest and stop reporting.

lost of interest of yours isnt the point here.. is it ? If you find it discouraging, suggest concrete steps that will help to fix the problem, otherwise we are in a dead end. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 04/06/09 00:58, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Yes, it is. Discouragement means lost of interest.

Lack of interest is a personal thing.

Concrete steps? Bugzillas been solved!

heh, "buzgilla been solved!" ..sound pretty much like "I want my cheese back now ! " ;-) it will not make the situation any better. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Jun 04, 2009 at 10:05:26PM +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On Thursday, 2009-06-04 at 08:28 -0400, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

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On 04/06/09 00:58, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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Yes, it is. Discouragement means lost of interest.

Lack of interest is a personal thing.

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Concrete steps? Bugzillas been solved!

heh, "buzgilla been solved!" ..sound pretty much like "I want my cheese back now ! " ;-) it will not make the situation any better.

On the contrary, bugzillas been solved would certainly make the situation much better.

You seem to somehow omit that quite a high percentage is getting solved. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, 2009-06-04 at 00:56 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On Thursday, 2009-06-04 at 00:34 +0200, Philipp Thomas wrote:

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I stopped reporting bugs because nothing comes of it usually.

That's simply not true!

Maybe not, but we have many bugs that are not solved in years. It is discouraging for us reporters.

On the contrary, some items i reported as "enhancements" were included in no-time... I'll guess it depends on the impact of required changes (and concequent re-testing), reproducability and so on -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 04/06/09 16:07, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Filesystem corruption, filesystem crash... absolutely reproductible. Several bugs.

Just dont use reiserfs ;-P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 04/06/09 18:26, Carlos E. R. wrote:

What about XFS? I have opened bugs against it, too.

And DVDs, the kernel attempting to write to a DVD when mounting, and failing to mount because of failed writes!

bug number ?

And about reiserfs, it is to be officially suported for about 4 years more, AFAIK. SLES, you know.

I didnt tell otherwise, I just told you to avoid it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, 2009-06-04 at 18:33 -0400, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

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And about reiserfs, it is to be officially suported for about 4 years more, AFAIK. SLES, you know.

I didnt tell otherwise, I just told you to avoid it.

And I told you that dumping reiserfs is a dumbass idea, more or less. Not many years ago SuSE told us to use reiserfs, that it was the filesystem of the future. Now you leave us stranded on the road... Do you think now that we'll believe you when you try to push us to ext4, for example? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkoqNScACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XW5QCfatoWs+tuWAobJQysCcXgTjvm vIEAnRFmegOH6B2Y+hsWFhPRU1f4Vfyv =eWQk -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Content-ID: On Friday, 2009-06-05 at 11:11 +0200, Heinz Diehl wrote:

At Fri, 5 Jun 2009 00:26:02 +0200 (CEST), Carlos E. R. wrote:

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What about XFS? I have opened bugs against it, too.

XFS on Linux is not broken at all. What kind of problems do you have? Can you assign your problems to specific opensuse patches, or are they of more general nature? Did you consider to report it directly to the XFS people, or open a bug report on the Linux kernel bugtracker?

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=345039 Bug 345039, first reported 29 Nov 2007, last update (me) on 29 Dec 2008, last report from assignee on 30 Mar 2008 I can not "assign your problems to specific opensuse patches", as I don't know enough. I have studied the problem to the best of my abilities, now it has to be a developper who takes it on. I'm open to testing (see the extense logs attached to the reports), but I have had no feedback since a year ago. Yes, I have considered reporting upstream, but I haven't done so, because I don't know if it is an XFS problem or a crypto system failure. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkoqMp0ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9U6SQCgjwV/KUem1sfP64NZwHkpkzFO ilUAn0llDn0pzPCOMscDq/cyUa0eeHKO =lUo/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, 2009-06-04 at 00:07 -0500, JB2 wrote:

<snip>

Please don't top-post to the openSUSE mailing list. Thanks.

Please don't police the list unless you have something to say on the topic. You are not the SUSE mail admin and we haven't appointed you as sheriff. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkooKfsACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VHZwCfTp9TNSi0a5/YqOBl/P+4iAqC Ck8AnRQdzSFn+TUIoDkNwWi3Cnykcdv1 =6+NQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2009-06-05 at 02:56 +0200, Philipp Thomas wrote:

The only thing you could possibly hold against him in this case is that he didn't told the offender via private mail and not on this list.

That, and that there are ways and ways of telling people to behave differently (kindly or not). I find, er, disgusting, just to post an email on a thread, like that, without having at least something to say on the subject, to sweeten the rebuke. By the way, don't mention nazis, or I'll have to godwinate you >:-P - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkoqOSEACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WzzgCfRio1g240fEGFZ965iMXRIE+J OkwAn0HsiQTwdG13fsaT5MZWD0JTKV9K =UD4w -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

JB2 wrote:

On 04 June 09, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On Thursday, 2009-06-04 at 00:07 -0500, JB2 wrote:

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<snip>

Please don't top-post to the openSUSE mailing list. Thanks.

Please don't police the list unless you have something to say on the topic. You are not the SUSE mail admin and we haven't appointed you as sheriff.

Too bad. If you yourself don't have the backbone to let rule breakers know they're breaking the rules, then step back out of the way and let those of us with the backbone do it for you.

That took backbone? Frankly posts like yours are more offensive to me than the occasional small top-post. Consider, the entire post was so small it's taken in at a glance and really doesn't matter that much what order it's written in. And as a dialup bbs user for years before the internet was even easily accessible, don't even think about suggesting I just don't understand the evil of top posting or agree it's evil. I think you have a funny definition of backbone, and have forgotten altogether the definition, or perhaps merely the value, of balance. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org