Hello, the discussion in linux-club.de is closed by the admins. So far you could say: 1. They dont care what we do, wether positive nor negative. They dont mind if there is another forum. The dont get angry at us, but they wont bother to change there. 2. Linux-Club is working well, so they will be glad to be the official forum, but on the other hand wont care if they are not. Most / Many of them thought we wanted to "rob" their mods or to do advertising for our forum. I hope I cleared that. On Administrator said we should have done all of this by way of moenk aka Eberhard. To discuss this in the "open" forum and not just inside the mods would have been wrong. I dont know if this would have been better, but if you want you can blame Henne for opening the thread and me for discussing so they closed it ;-) SUMMARY: None. OJ P.S. As I dont get my former post cos of gmail I had to start a new thread, sorry. -- Elisabeth's safe, just as I promised. And she's going to marry Norrington, just as she promised, and you are going to die for her, just as you promised. So we're all men of our word really, except Elizabeth, who is, in fact, a woman. (Pirates of the Caribbean)
Hi, On Mon, 30 Jan 2006, Johannes Kastl wrote:
the discussion in linux-club.de is closed by the admins. So far you could say:
1. They dont care what we do, wether positive nor negative. They dont mind if there is another forum. The dont get angry at us, but they wont bother to change there.
2. Linux-Club is working well, so they will be glad to be the official forum, but on the other hand wont care if they are not.
Most / Many of them thought we wanted to "rob" their mods or to do advertising for our forum. I hope I cleared that.
On Administrator said we should have done all of this by way of moenk aka Eberhard.
No, not me - moenk is Thomas Moenkemeier.
To discuss this in the "open" forum and not just inside the mods would have been wrong. I dont know if this would have been better, but if you want you can blame Henne for opening the thread and me for discussing so they closed it ;-)
SUMMARY: None.
OJ
P.S. As I dont get my former post cos of gmail I had to start a new thread, sorry.
Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)
On 1/30/2006 7:24 PM Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
On Administrator said we should have done all of this by way of moenk aka Eberhard.
No, not me - moenk is Thomas Moenkemeier.
Sorry got the wrong Name. Ahem... *ashamed* OJ -- `...a very ancient wizarding family noted for a vein of instability and violence that flourished through the generations due to their habit of merrying their own cousins.? (Albus Dumbledore in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi List, i' am user from Linux-Club. I have discuss in the closed thread. I' am not familar with Mailing lists. I think the discussion in the Thread was not the problem. The Problem was, that in the Thread, Saber-Rider (I think Johannes Kastl) has posted consecutively. Oliver Bengs -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFD3oj0j/glEAdJRAMRAgKvAJ9GdTTtw2OjWGDFHSpe7opPjAIrtACfW0Wp EWsbvi0+uk1jtuH9fhQv+0o= =mFVa -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 1/30/2006 10:45 PM Oliver Bengs wrote:
I think the discussion in the Thread was not the problem. The Problem was, that in the Thread, Saber-Rider (I think Johannes Kastl) has posted consecutively.
You mean the double posts? That was cleared with the mods, the server messed some posts up. OJ -- `But he knows your dad was right all along now about Voldemort being back -? `Dumbledore says people find it far easier to forgive others for being wrong than being right,?said Hermione. (Ron and Hermione in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:03:09 +0100 Johannes Kastl <ojkastl@googlemail.com> wrote:
You mean the double posts? That was cleared with the mods, the server messed some posts up.
OJ
Yes that what i mean. You have it cleared with mods, but Wolfgang wrote: - ----------------------------------------- und da sich in mir der Spam-Verdacht erhärtet, ist dieser Thread nun zu... - ---------------------------------------- this means, he thinks that was Spam. This is not what i means ;) Oliver Bengs -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFD3pBsj/glEAdJRAMRAqqfAJ9Klt00Y1spBQ3PNpwXijqQ9YJk/gCfdc/P TjXknb/Rv+B6em1WMZsjqjA= =jBU/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 1/30/2006 11:17 PM Oliver Bengs wrote:
Yes that what i mean. You have it cleared with mods, but Wolfgang wrote: ----------------------------------------- und da sich in mir der Spam-Verdacht erhärtet, ist dieser Thread nun zu... ---------------------------------------- this means, he thinks that was Spam. This is not what i means ;)
Aah, I see what you mean. But the thread was already nearing the end, so I "let it die". The picture is clear, now we know what some of them want. OJ -- The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they 've found it. (Terry Pratchett, Monstrous regiment)
Johannes Kastl wrote:
Most / Many of them thought we wanted to "rob" their mods or to do advertising for our forum. I hope I cleared that.
well. this don't show a so good spirit. WE advertise they forum, why should they not do the same? of course not for robery :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net Quelques images: http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html
On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 07:06:33PM +0100, Johannes Kastl wrote:
On Administrator said we should have done all of this by way of moenk aka Eberhard. To discuss this in the "open" forum and not just inside the mods would have been wrong. I dont know if this would have been better, but if you want you can blame Henne for opening the thread and me for discussing so they closed it ;-)
SUMMARY: None.
I would say there IS a summery. The summery is that they do not care. Whatever we do is fine with them, as long as we do not attack or harm them. (Or that could be more of a conclusion.) It also directly shows the disadvatage of having third part forums. We would perhaps liked to discuss it further, they did not and closed the discussion. I understand that is their full right and I am not dicsussion that decision. I just want to point out the pretty obvious that openSUSE as a comunity would have NO control over third part servers. Wether openSUSE wants to have that or not might be another discussion. houghi -- There was a gay countess of Bray, And you may think it odd when I say, That in spite of high station, Rank and education, She always spelled cunt with a "k".
Hi, On Mon, 30 Jan 2006, houghi wrote:
On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 07:06:33PM +0100, Johannes Kastl wrote:
On Administrator said we should have done all of this by way of moenk aka Eberhard. To discuss this in the "open" forum and not just inside the mods would have been wrong. I dont know if this would have been better, but if you want you can blame Henne for opening the thread and me for discussing so they closed it ;-)
SUMMARY: None.
I would say there IS a summery. The summery is that they do not care. Whatever we do is fine with them, as long as we do not attack or harm them.
(Or that could be more of a conclusion.)
It also directly shows the disadvatage of having third part forums. We would perhaps liked to discuss it further, they did not and closed the discussion. I understand that is their full right and I am not dicsussion that decision. I just want to point out the pretty obvious that openSUSE as a comunity would have NO control over third part servers.
Wether openSUSE wants to have that or not might be another discussion.
Linuxclub.de will not suppress any further discussion - please read the "closing" statement in original. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)
On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 08:02:06PM +0100, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
Linuxclub.de will not suppress any further discussion - please read the "closing" statement in original.
I have re-read it several times and I come to the same conclusion: "so they closed it" means that they closed the discusion, wich I interpret as "People are not allowed to post anymore". Please explain me what I am misunderstanding. houghi -- Alimony is a system by which, when two people make a mistake, one of them keeps paying for it. -- Peggy Joyce
Hi, On Mon, 30 Jan 2006, houghi wrote:
On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 08:02:06PM +0100, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
Linuxclub.de will not suppress any further discussion - please read the "closing" statement in original.
I have re-read it several times and I come to the same conclusion: "so they closed it" means that they closed the discusion, wich I interpret as "People are not allowed to post anymore".
Please explain me what I am misunderstanding.
Original message from moderator "whois": Haben wir einen Thread zu schnell geschlossen? Eine kurze PN an uns und wir machen wieder auf! translation: Did we close a thread too early? A short private mail, and we will re-open! But I guess this is a general rule there - the thread "openSUSE Foren" is not closed and was never. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)
On 1/30/2006 9:10 PM Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
But I guess this is a general rule there -
yes.
the thread "openSUSE Foren" is not closed and was never.
It is closed, by "Wolfgang". Or better: it is locked (gesperrt) OJ -- I still maintain the point that designing a monolithic kernel in 1991 is a fundamental error. Be thankful you are not my student. You would not get a high grade for such a design. (Andrew Tanenbaum to Linus Torvalds)
Hi, On Mon, 30 Jan 2006, Johannes Kastl wrote:
On 1/30/2006 9:10 PM Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
But I guess this is a general rule there -
yes.
the thread "openSUSE Foren" is not closed and was never.
It is closed, by "Wolfgang". Or better: it is locked (gesperrt)
Yes - my error. But you can try to let it re-open if you think something still should be said there. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)
On 1/30/2006 10:11 PM Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
Yes - my error. But you can try to let it re-open if you think something still should be said there.
Feel free to do so, I have stopped, maybe I posted a bit too much, and some people obviously got me totally wrong. So I think Ill just make more damaged then sense... OJ -- "...Unix, MS-DOS, and Windows NT (also known as the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly)." (By Matt Welsh)
Hi, On Mon, 30 Jan 2006, Johannes Kastl wrote:
On 1/30/2006 10:11 PM Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
Yes - my error. But you can try to let it re-open if you think something still should be said there.
Feel free to do so, I have stopped, maybe I posted a bit too much, and some people obviously got me totally wrong. So I think Ill just make more damaged then sense...
In my guess the Linux-Club position is clear enough: the forum wants to stay autonomous, but would feel between "why not" and "what a honour" if it would be mentioned/linked as "the official german openSUSE forum" within the opensuse.org pages. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)
On 1/30/2006 10:26 PM Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
In my guess the Linux-Club position is clear enough: the forum wants to stay autonomous, but would feel between "why not" and "what a honour" if it would be mentioned/linked as "the official german openSUSE forum" within the opensuse.org pages.
Yes. I would guess that is mainly the position of all forums. OJ -- "The United States of America is the only empire in history to have gone from Barbarism directly to Decadence, without any intervening period of Civilisation." (Oscar Wilde)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Johannes Kastl wrote:
On 1/30/2006 10:26 PM Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
In my guess the Linux-Club position is clear enough: the forum wants to stay autonomous, but would feel between "why not" and "what a honour" if it would be mentioned/linked as "the official german openSUSE forum" within the opensuse.org pages.
Yes. I would guess that is mainly the position of all forums.
Yes, that's more or less what I draw as a conclusion after discussing with the folks of suselinuxsupport.de They value their independence quite high, which is understandable. But the position of the linuxclub.de mods is rather disappointing, the suselinuxsupport.de folks seemed much more interested in being involved in the openSUSE.org community. Sorry, I just don't get it. "don't care", wtf? IMO: if they don't feel like participating, then don't link to them. "participating" does _not_ mean shutting down linuxclub.de or forcing them to move to forum.opensuse.org As I stated in an earlier mail, the most important aspect is to get the people together that make up the various parts of the (open)SUSE community, get closer, communicate. We've been lacking a single communication channel for the community. This mailing-list is that link. If they don't want to participate by subscribing here, linking to opensuse.org and actively participating in this effort, then just let them be a closed club if they want to. No, I really don't get it.. What about if I was saying: I build all those RPMs for the openSUSE community, hence, I'm going to blacklist all the people subscribed on linuxclub.de because I don't care about them. Stupid and irrelevant ? Indeed. Is it a fair comparison ? Not really, but not that far-fetched either. (Technically impossible ? Indeed ;))) cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ <pascal.bleser@skynet.be> <guru@unixtech.be> _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFD3pYNr3NMWliFcXcRApAuAKCnJHwd+pfA21JQaiz3hWbrYC3ezgCfdJUe WtylrjiRTsVcTFK2yk9U/rU= =YJQK -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Pascal Bleser wrote:
No, I really don't get it.. What about if I was saying: I build all those RPMs for the openSUSE community, hence, I'm going to blacklist all the people subscribed on linuxclub.de because I don't care about them. Stupid and irrelevant ? Indeed. Is it a fair comparison ? Not really, but not that far-fetched either. (Technically impossible ? Indeed ;)))
Pascal, please understand that your contributions are valued highly everywhere that I have been(virtually) in the openSUSE community. The opinions expressed by an individual or individuals at a particular forum are by no means representative of any others. I can tell you that the members at suseforums.net hold your repository and it's contents at the highest level of respect, and frankly we're often in awe at how much you contribute year after year. Personally I run many of your high quality packages, they are always excellent and I recommend them almost daily. To the list, you're correct in assuming that many forums want to remain autonomous, but that doesn't mean that we can't communicate more effectively as a community. It's hard to let go of so many hard years work. It literally takes two to three years to build up a successful forum, and that is assuming that you have competent Mods and Admins from day one (which we do). Don't let this discourage you from reaching out, and the reverse applies. Harryc --
On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 07:11:40PM -0500, harryc wrote: <snip some ass-licking. :-) >
To the list, you're correct in assuming that many forums want to remain autonomous, but that doesn't mean that we can't communicate more effectively as a community. It's hard to let go of so many hard years work. It literally takes two to three years to build up a successful forum, and that is assuming that you have competent Mods and Admins from day one (which we do). Don't let this discourage you from reaching out, and the reverse applies.
The way I read it, he was talking about some individuals who posted what he said, not the whole comunity. We indeed need to talk and we ALL have to find out what the best way is to do this. You state yourself that building a forum and perhaps even the comunity, takes time. During this time we must work things out how things are done best. The openSUSE comunity has reached out his hands for the first time and at this moment. We have to see where it goes from here. We hope that everybody who uses SUSE can contribute in one way or another to SUSE. openSUSE is the platform for this. So how can we achive this without loosing the goodwill that is already out there? For me it is strange that then people, who might have at least indirect interest in the wellbeing of SUSE as a distribution, say they do not care. About this autonomity: nobody wants to take that away. It was just obe of the ideas that came upas a possibilaty. If there are other possibilaties, please, please, please let us know. houghi -- Any excuse will serve a tyrant. -- Aesop
Hi, On Mon, 30 Jan 2006, harryc wrote:
To the list, you're correct in assuming that many forums want to remain autonomous,
I guess all of them. None of them should change in their essence just because SUSE/Novell starts to recognize them.
but that doesn't mean that we can't communicate more effectively as a community.
This is the point: let's try to make the "inter forum" communication better. But maybe the best way would be that each moderator reads all the forums - an incredible time consuming task.
It's hard to let go of so many hard years work. It literally takes two to three years to build up a successful forum, and that is assuming that you have competent Mods and Admins from day one (which we do). Don't let this discourage you from reaching out, and the reverse applies.
Harry, SUSE/Novell has to find a way to "bind" you and your moderator fellows (loosely, but bind) to their "community building" efforts - everyone (even "they") has seen now that the community already was there when they started to invent it, so the task now is not "designing", but "glueing". This needs a deep level of understanding between individuals, so the task is harder then just to "design" something, but the goal is bigger than thought: SUSE/Novell simply has to find a way of "coordinating the moderators", because the community is already present and active and organized. I guess SUSE/Novell is steering right currently. Let's see. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)
On 1/30/2006 11:41 PM Pascal Bleser wrote:
But the position of the linuxclub.de mods is rather disappointing, the suselinuxsupport.de folks seemed much more interested in being involved in the openSUSE.org community.
Have you read the original posts? But I think you are not able to unless you are logged in.
Sorry, I just don't get it. "don't care", wtf?
From what I understood there, many felt like we would plan to take their club away, no matter what the say ("What the f*ck does suse think they are, trying to shut own LC without asking us" would be a rather good description for that feeling they had). No use in telling them that we wanted to ask them how they felt about all of this. Some thought I wanted to advertise the new forum. Some thought Id spam there. Some said the thought positive about participating, but changed their opinion whe the discussion went on.
IMO: if they don't feel like participating, then don't link to them. "participating" does _not_ mean shutting down linuxclub.de or forcing them to move to forum.opensuse.org
I must say somehow maybe I mad a bad figure in trying to explain that. Maybe it was just a stupid thought of us to think they were just doing this cos no official forum existed, and they would move to the new forum. OJ -- The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they 've found it. (Terry Pratchett, Monstrous regiment)
Hi, On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Johannes Kastl wrote:
On 1/30/2006 11:41 PM Pascal Bleser wrote:
But the position of the linuxclub.de mods is rather disappointing, the suselinuxsupport.de folks seemed much more interested in being involved in the openSUSE.org community.
No, it is fully OK with our goals if you reflect the subjective situation.
Have you read the original posts? But I think you are not able to unless you are logged in.
Sorry, I just don't get it. "don't care", wtf?
From what I understood there, many felt like we would plan to take their club away, no matter what the say ("What the f*ck does suse think they are, trying to shut own LC without asking us" would be a rather good description for that feeling they had). No use in telling them that we wanted to ask them how they felt about all of this.
Yes, the reactions against the "take over" and "spam" aspects should not inflect the summary.
Some thought I wanted to advertise the new forum. Some thought Id spam there. Some said the thought positive about participating, but changed their opinion whe the discussion went on.
IMO: if they don't feel like participating, then don't link to them. "participating" does _not_ mean shutting down linuxclub.de or forcing them to move to forum.opensuse.org
I must say somehow maybe I mad a bad figure in trying to explain that. Maybe it was just a stupid thought of us to think they were just doing this cos no official forum existed, and they would move to the new forum.
The result is OK. This is what counts. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I understand the people here and the people on Linux-Club. The Linux-Club is an old Forum, there many people which begin with SuSE but many now on other Distributions. But there already in Linux-Club and Support the Linux Question. Many of them have never read a Mailing List, and they suprised that openSuSE want communicate with them (I'am too). They see that gives every half year a new SuSE version. This was before openSuSE and this now. Nobody of them is against forums.opensuse.org, but it is new for they to see that (not for all but for many over night :)) that openSuSE more is than a Distributation, that there is a greater Community. Please tried to read with moenk (not Eberhard) the owner of the Forum. This was still said too in the Thread. I hope that helps all. P.S.: For bad English correct me ;) Oliver Bengs -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFD30jaj/glEAdJRAMRAn8PAJ4wgfThJdG1wbZLWxmTpQ7l7j/9ZwCeO+Ce tx/Z6EJvrRrDzCi069g3mVw= =RVYA -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 1/30/2006 8:17 PM houghi wrote:
I have re-read it several times and I come to the same conclusion: "so they closed it" means that they closed the discusion, wich I interpret as "People are not allowed to post anymore".
I think he meant the forum post: =====================================================================
Erstens verstehe ich die Antwort im Bezug auf meine Frage nicht und zweitens glaube ich kaum, dass die Nutzer zu entscheiden haben, ob der LC gegebenenfalls aufgelöst wird oder nicht.
Der richtige Weg ist grundsätzlich der über den Admin (und das ist moenk).
und da sich in mir der Spam-Verdacht erhärtet, ist dieser Thread nun zu... =====================================================================
Please explain me what I am misunderstanding.
Im not sure what he means too. OJ -- "`You should write a book,'Ron told Hermione as he cut up his potatoes, `translating mad things girls do so boys can understand them.'" (Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
participants (7)
-
Eberhard Moenkeberg -
harryc -
houghi -
jdd -
Johannes Kastl -
Oliver Bengs -
Pascal Bleser