Re: [opensuse] Re: [opensuse-factory] what you can do with KDE3 thatyou can't do with KDE4.
On 02.04.2012 00:40, Istvan Gabor wrote:
2012. április 1. 23:35 napon James Knott <james.knott@rogers.com> írta:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
James, you have the custom to reply to threads of factory on the opensuse mail list. You should be more careful. Your reply is lost to those that were following the thread, and the people here may not know what you are talking about. Sorry, force of habit. The openSUSE lists require I change the address from the person I'm replying to, to the list address. All too often I chose the openSUSE list, when I should have selected the factory list.
I guess this thread is more appropriate to this list than to factory. I am a big KDE3 supporter and thanks for Ilya and others we can still use KDE3 even with the most recent openSUSE releases. I don't have a single KDE4 package on my system. In the last ~2 years I could resist to participate in such KDE3 vs KDE4 battles but now I can't help posting a message.
Here is the list on what I could not do in KDE 4 when I last tested it (I have to confess it was at least 6-12 months ago; I got bored that there was no progress regarding the issues below and gave up trying):
- There is no manual panel hiding at the users will - The fonts in the panel clock can not be set independently; for example I want the time shown in big fonts and the date in small fonts - I can not see mounted USB, CD/DVD, etc devices on the desktop - I can't see the borders between panel elements (as classic view in KDE3) - Setting up the panel is way too cumbersome compared to KDE3's simple ways (eg adding, removing, moving a panel item) - Can't set exact hight of the panel (in pixels or other units) - KDE4 Konsole font 'misc console' looked awful, practically useless - There is/was no kdeprint program (KDE print manager) or equivalent (cups print manager is not a real replacement) - KDE4 control center is a mess compared to that of KDE3; user and system options mixed frequently - KDE4 specific: Could not get rid of the annoying figure in the upper right corner (called cashew?) - My personal taste: KDE4 themes/styles far less attractive than KDE3 themes/styles, and is not possible to make them look like KDE3 themes. - KDE4 was slow compared to KDE3, much slower (I have only 0.5-1GB RAMs in my systems) - Logging out from KDE4 took ~20 seconds vs 2 seconds in KDE3 - I could not configure a second desktop for TV out in KDE4.
And a comment: the question "What can't you do in KDE4 that you can in KDE3" is inappropriate. Practically everything can be done in every desktop/window manager if you know the right tools. Even in DOS or in terminal. The right question would be which desktop manager is more comfortable to use or fits better the user's personal taste.
Greetings,
Istvan
- I cannot change desktop icon's font and have them stay where I put them. They immediately get "sorted" by the left edge (while I like them by the upper/lower edge) of the screen (never happened in KDE3) - +1 for slow, I have dual-core 2.7GHz 64-bit AMD Phenom with 4 GB RAM, and KDE4 is still much slower than KDE3 - desktop effects? who needs them? yes, they look nice, but only for half an hour, then become annoying... even the desktop cube, only good to impress Windows people :) - oh, and +1000 for panel hiding... why is it so hard to implement? Just to avoid any confusion, I work on both KDE3 and KDE4, have been using KDE4 since the first edition till the latest 4.8.2, but never could get used to it... whenever I go back to KDE3 (even after a year of not using it) it is like going back home... Regards, Siniša Bandin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* Sinisa Bandin <sinisa@4net.rs> [04-09-12 16:55]:
- I cannot change desktop icon's font and have them stay where I put them. They immediately get "sorted" by the left edge (while I like them by the upper/lower edge) of the screen (never happened in KDE3)
Don't know, haven't tried that.
- +1 for slow, I have dual-core 2.7GHz 64-bit AMD Phenom with 4 GB RAM, and KDE4 is still much slower than KDE3
until you actually run in timeing loops, this is *only* your impression. Provide actual figures and maybe they will indicate something, or not.
- desktop effects? who needs them? yes, they look nice, but only for half an hour, then become annoying... even the desktop cube, only good to impress Windows people :)
I don't believe they are enabled by default and even so, are very simple to turn off.
- oh, and +1000 for panel hiding... why is it so hard to implement?
actually very easy to configure. I use it, unlock widgets select panel options select panel settings select more settings select auto-hide lock widgets
Just to avoid any confusion, I work on both KDE3 and KDE4, have been using KDE4 since the first edition till the latest 4.8.2, but never could get used to it... whenever I go back to KDE3 (even after a year of not using it) it is like going back home...
Then you have made a choice. Why are you hammering kde4? Just because you can? Or perhaps you are *really* unhappy with choosing kde3 and don't want to admit it. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2012-04-09 23:10, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
Why are you hammering kde4? Just because you can? Or perhaps you are *really* unhappy with choosing kde3 and don't want to admit it.
Many of the people using KDE3, like me, would prefer to be able to use KDE4, but can't :-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk+DXEQACgkQIvFNjefEBxpKowCeKFKRaYevZDIB0UB8hYmVtTkq 1nwAn2+F30n0NFEdkFztiYa0PNWnTAO9 =qY7d -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 6:01 PM, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
Many of the people using KDE3, like me, would prefer to be able to use KDE4, but can't :-)
Actually, I can't agree with that Carlos. If KDE4 was truly a continuation of KDE3 instead of a completely new DE, then I could agree. KDE4 is something new and completely different that the devs have tried to make somewhat like KDE3 because of continued complaints Honestly, I haven't bothered with KDE4 for over a year. I lost interest. KDE3 works as I expect and as I want it to. I see no point in trying to waste time to force KDE4's settings to do what I want. That would be like trying to make Gnome3 work like Gnome2 - Pointless. Since there are continuations of KDE3 here at openSUSE and with TDE, there's really no need to even look at KDE4 anymore. Those who prefer KDE4 should do so, & those who prefer KDE3 should do so. Comparing the 2 is like comparing apples & oranges. I've been told how "stupid" I am for not appreciating KDE4s "features" that I "need". Well, I don't need them. Hopefully we can keep KDE3 working on openSUSE or eventually incorporate TDE if it's better. Just my 2 cents. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2012-04-10 00:47, Larry Stotler wrote:
On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 6:01 PM, Carlos E. R. <> wrote:
Many of the people using KDE3, like me, would prefer to be able to use KDE4, but can't :-)
Actually, I can't agree with that Carlos. If KDE4 was truly a continuation of KDE3 instead of a completely new DE, then I could agree. KDE4 is something new and completely different that the devs have tried to make somewhat like KDE3 because of continued complaints
But you do agree, in fact! >:-) You simply have not understood the spirit of my words. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk+DdTcACgkQIvFNjefEBxpjmwCfV8WQyPQu/Iy9y4D9g3qMqGkV P7wAn0aoApELIg8mvseTR0oDY5birGRg =X5Qz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [01-01-70 12:34]:
On 2012-04-10 00:47, Larry Stotler wrote:
On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 6:01 PM, Carlos E. R. <> wrote:
Many of the people using KDE3, like me, would prefer to be able to use KDE4, but can't :-)
Actually, I can't agree with that Carlos. If KDE4 was truly a continuation of KDE3 instead of a completely new DE, then I could agree. KDE4 is something new and completely different that the devs have tried to make somewhat like KDE3 because of continued complaints
But you do agree, in fact! >:-)
You simply have not understood the spirit of my words.
I have no problem with anyone preferring and using kde3. I have a problem with all the comments that kde4 won't do this, is too slow, ..... I can say the same things re kde3 that are being bleeted about kde4. I have desktop effects disabled but I do use the search/catalogue function. I use it on a rather powerful box but also have two lessor boxes which I use openbox-kde. But I do not harp about kde4 problems on those boxes, rather use something more appropriate. This *argument(ing)* may as well be the gnome vs kde which should be menued first ravings....... wake-up time! -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday, 09 April 2012 20:07 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [01-01-70 12:34]:
On 2012-04-10 00:47, Larry Stotler wrote:
On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 6:01 PM, Carlos E. R. <> wrote:
Many of the people using KDE3, like me, would prefer to be able to use KDE4, but can't :-)
Actually, I can't agree with that Carlos. If KDE4 was truly a continuation of KDE3 instead of a completely new DE, then I could agree. KDE4 is something new and completely different that the devs have tried to make somewhat like KDE3 because of continued complaints
But you do agree, in fact! >:-)
You simply have not understood the spirit of my words.
I have no problem with anyone preferring and using kde3. I have a problem with all the comments that kde4 won't do this, is too slow, .....
I can say the same things re kde3 that are being bleeted about kde4. I have desktop effects disabled but I do use the search/catalogue function. I use it on a rather powerful box but also have two lessor boxes which I use openbox-kde. But I do not harp about kde4 problems on those boxes, rather use something more appropriate.
This *argument(ing)* may as well be the gnome vs kde which should be menued first ravings.......
wake-up time!
Aaaand, we hear from the biggest pompous whiner of them all. "I have no problem with...", yet also you have to say "...things being bleeted...". STFU, you whiny punk. This is the way things are going, in openSUSE, in almost all the distro's. Hell, it's *why* some distro's are branching so much! It has it's place being talked about. It's bothering a *lot* of people. If you don't like it, you know what bridge you can jump off of, preferably with a big rock tied around your neck at the time into deep water. -- Powered by Slackware 13.37 23:41:29 up 2 days, 10:45, 2 users, load average: 0.80, 0.80, 0.84 Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived. - Isaac Asimov Registered Linux user #214117 at http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday 09 Apr 2012 23:47:17 Insomniactoo wrote: <nothing worth quoting> Please keep personal, aggressive responses off our lists. See http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Board, Booster, KDE Developer SUSE LINUX GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 10 April 2012 12:13:25 am Will Stephenson wrote:
On Monday 09 Apr 2012 23:47:17 Insomniactoo wrote: <nothing worth quoting>
Please keep personal, aggressive responses off our lists.
See http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette
Will
-- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Board, Booster, KDE Developer SUSE LINUX GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany first a simple question: Is this a kde3 specific list? i thought it was. if so, then there is no need for kde4 trolls. if this is not, perhaps this should be only a kde3 list... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* kanenas@hawaii.rr.com <kanenas@hawaii.rr.com> [04-11-12 22:12]:
first a simple question: Is this a kde3 specific list?
Definitely *not*. But there is a "kde3 specific" list: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kde3/
i thought it was. if so, then there is no need for kde4 trolls.
I don't know what a "kde4 trolls" is.
if this is not, perhaps this should be only a kde3 list...
Perhaps it should *not*! from http://lists.opensuse.org/ opensuse-kde English Discussion about KDE in the openSUSE distribution opensuse-kde3 English Discussion about KDE3 in the openSUSE distribution Your forthcoming subscription to opensuse-kde3 will be greatly welcomed. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 11 April 2012 04:43:04 pm Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* kanenas@hawaii.rr.com <kanenas@hawaii.rr.com> [04-11-12 22:12]:
first a simple question: Is this a kde3 specific list?
Definitely *not*.
But there is a "kde3 specific" list: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kde3/
i thought it was. if so, then there is no need for kde4 trolls.
I don't know what a "kde4 trolls" is.
if this is not, perhaps this should be only a kde3 list...
Perhaps it should *not*!
from http://lists.opensuse.org/ opensuse-kde English Discussion about KDE in the openSUSE distribution opensuse-kde3 English Discussion about KDE3 in the openSUSE distribution
Your forthcoming subscription to opensuse-kde3 will be greatly welcomed.
-- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net
oops, my bad, i forgot that before i went on vacation i had re-subscribed to opensuse.org to get some cifs info. i had thought the post had appeared on the kde3 forum, the only opensuse forum i normally subscribe to. i apologize. d. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Insomniactoo -
kanenas＠hawaii.rr.com -
Larry Stotler -
Patrick Shanahan -
Sinisa Bandin -
Will Stephenson