[opensuse] 13.1 New Install Summary - Good Job Dev Team!
All, In my move from 11.4 to 13.1 on my Toshiba laptop, my first impression of 13.1 is that it is a good first step towards systemd implementation for openSuSE. It took a number of hours and the cumulative brain-trust of the opensuse list to iron out, but 13.1 is working great and Ilya has done a fantastic job preparing kde3 for 13.1. The boot time for 13.1 is great, 17 seconds to the desktop. I've put a detailed plot of the boot process for the laptop up at for those interested: [450k] http://www.3111skyline.com/dl/ss/suse/alchemy_13.1-bootplot.jpg This bootplot was created with systemd-analyze which provides some pretty spectacular features: # systemd-analyze plot > cnf/alchemy/bootplot.svg The 13.1 install was not bad considering the steps taken in the move to systemd. This install was done with the net-install CD with initial desktop as LXDE, traditional root account, no auto-login, and auto-configure turned off. The installer worked fine, the only glitch was the installer failing to fill the printer select dialog during printer configuration -- until the hplip package was installed. The only shortcoming of the installer is that it only allows addition of the update/non-oss repositories instead of allowing any repository to be added. I would like to see it allow addition of any repository at install time. In my case that led to choosing LXDE as an temp install desktop before adding the KDE3 repository and installing the final desktop. The need to use a temporary desktop led to the system being configured to start many unwanted/unneeded processes. Specifically the install filled the /etc/xdg/autostart directory with: at-spi-dbus-bus.desktop gmixer-trayicon.desktop gnome-keyring-gpg.desktop gnome-keyring-pkcs11.desktop gnome-keyring-secrets.desktop gnome-keyring-ssh.desktop gnome-settings-daemon.desktop gsynaptics-init.desktop hplip-systray.desktop nautilus-autostart.desktop nm-applet.desktop parcellite-startup.desktop polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1.desktop print-applet.desktop tracker-miner-fs.desktop tracker-store.desktop user-dirs-update-gtk.desktop xfce4-power-manager.desktop Of those, the only one needed (useful) in kde is gnome-settings-daemon.desktop to coordinate kde/gtk themes. I suspect those claiming no reduction in boot-time under 13.1 probably have a number of unneeded processes being started in this manner. Simply moving all the unneeded .desktop files out of autostart dramatically reduced startup time (and eliminated a mouse y-axis conflict caused by gsynaptics-init). The remaining issues with the 13.1 install surrounded having to turn off a lot of unnecessary 'optional' stuff that is now the 'default'. This included the annoying bash_command_not_found, the /etc/profile.d coloration of grep, etc. Those are relatively simple, but take a lot of wasted time to track down and turn off. My only comment would be that users should turn 'options' on if wanted, not have to turn 'options' off that are unwanted. The biggest time waste was not opensuse related, but came from the forced update to firefox 30 and it's changed interface that caused (and continues to cause) untold problems with toolbar layout, plugins, etc... Yet another example of a gee-whiz new interface that doesn't work with prior plugins, does little or nothing to improve actual browsing or page rendering, but takes a hell of a lot of time to sort out. There was only one bug report filed regarding 13.1 itself. https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=887629 For some reason the screen backlight control is broken for this laptop. It has worked in every OS and openSuSE version since 11.0, but for some reason just doesn't in 13.1. Again, small potatoes, it will get fixed. On balance, the 13.1 install was no more difficult than any prior openSuSE install. The resulting system boots fast and so far has been rock stable. All 11.4 kde settings/data transfered to 13.1 just fine (I did blow up kicker, but that was easily fixed). Except for the firefox toolbar issue, all firefox and thunderbird data transfered fine and is working as expected. On balance cudos to the development team. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 17/07/14 08:57, David C. Rankin wrote:
All,
In my move from 11.4 to 13.1 on my Toshiba laptop, my first impression of 13.1 is that it is a good first step towards systemd implementation for openSuSE. It took a number of hours and the cumulative brain-trust of the opensuse list to iron out, but 13.1 is working great and Ilya has done a fantastic job preparing kde3 for 13.1. The boot time for 13.1 is great, 17 seconds to the desktop. I've put a detailed plot of the boot process for the laptop up at for those interested: [pruned]
The biggest time waste was not opensuse related, but came from the forced update to firefox 30 and it's changed interface that caused (and continues to cause) untold problems with toolbar layout, plugins, etc... Yet another example of a gee-whiz new interface that doesn't work with prior plugins,
Install NIGHTLY TESTER TOOLS which 'make' extensions work with new versions of FF. (But there are some Add-Ons which may still not work - but they probably have been replaced by newer, rewritten, versions.)
does little or nothing to improve actual browsing or page rendering, but takes a hell of a lot of time to sort out.
[pruned] BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.3 & kernel 3.15.5-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On July 16, 2014 6:57:50 PM EDT, "David C. Rankin" <drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com> wrote:
All,
In my move from 11.4 to 13.1 on my Toshiba laptop, my first impression of 13.1 is that it is a good first step towards systemd implementation for
openSuSE.
I'm no systems expert, but to call 13.1 a good first step is mis-leading. It might be a good 3rd step since systemd has been opensuse for a couple releases Greg -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/16/2014 10:21 PM, Greg Freemyer wrote:
On July 16, 2014 6:57:50 PM EDT, "David C. Rankin" <drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com> wrote:
All,
In my move from 11.4 to 13.1 on my Toshiba laptop, my first impression of 13.1 is that it is a good first step towards systemd implementation for
openSuSE.
I'm no systems expert, but to call 13.1 a good first step is mis-leading. It might be a good 3rd step since systemd has been opensuse for a couple releases
Greg
Well, Most distros have had systemd for at least the last 2 years of releases. Whether it is a first or third step is a gray area, that in my mind depends on the extent systemd is providing system control, device access, and logging services. My intent in number choice was recognition that in 13.1 systemd controlled boot/init services to a large extent and journalctl provided logging services separate and apart from syslog-ng. Perhaps I should have eliminated the "first" part entirely and just went with "step". Regardless, the intent wasn't to catalog or debate which step it was, but rather to simply say "Good Job Devs" and provide a summary of my experience with the install. I'm just looking forward to 13.2 and: 01:36 phoinix:~> ls -al /etc/init.d ls: cannot access /etc/init.d: No such file or directory We will summarize that as "the final step" :-) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
David C. Rankin wrote:
The only shortcoming of the installer is that it only allows addition of the update/non-oss repositories instead of allowing any repository to be added. I would like to see it allow addition of any repository at install time.
IIRC it's already there, at least it used to be. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (18.4°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/17/2014 01:11 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
IIRC it's already there, at least it used to be.
Hmm, When I checked, the only repos available were update and non-oss, there was an option for OtherMedia which from context was asking for a CD/DVD/USB. If the OtherMedia means repositories, then I just misread what it was. That would be super-cool to eliminate choosing a temporary desktop for install. Even with the X11:windowmanagers repo, you could get fluxbox which would be much lighter than lxde without being as bare-bones as TWM. I'll check on next install. Thanks Per. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-07-17 01:27 (GMT-0500) David C. Rankin composed:
...eliminate choosing a temporary desktop for install.
I don't understand this. If from other you choose minimal X you get the very lightweight IceWM, with no choice of temporary desktop at all needed, since it seems to be a dependency of Xorg itself in openSUSE regardless of the preferred DE. IOW, in openSUSE, you can't have Xorg installed and not IceWM and/or IceWM-lite, and same for TWM which AFAICT isn't even a separate package. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/17/2014 02:59 AM, Felix Miata wrote:
I don't understand this. If from other you choose minimal X you get the very lightweight IceWM, with no choice of temporary desktop at all needed, since it seems to be a dependency of Xorg itself in openSUSE regardless of the preferred DE. IOW, in openSUSE, you can't have Xorg installed and not IceWM and/or IceWM-lite, and same for TWM which AFAICT isn't even a separate package.
Minimal X used to be TWM, if it is now icewm, then that would work fine. When I say temp desktop, I mean something available from the repositories {oss, update} to use to complete install and move files before adding the kde3 repo and installing that. If I could have/(knew I could have) added the kde3 repo, I could have just installed that. The only reason this was noteworthy to me, and worth discussing to inform others, was finding the number of process in /etc/xdg/autostart after having done the install with lxde. Since lxde is just an openbox offshoot, I didn't expect to have 1/2 of gnome activated by making that choice. Generally, for my install, all I care about is getting an xterm and slightly more functionality than TWM without a whole host of autostart apps buried away. The lxde choice was a surprisingly full setup with all the bells and whistles. Nothing wrong with that, just surprising when expecting a lighter weight install and no baggage when changing desktops :) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-07-17 03:23 (GMT-0500) David C. Rankin composed:
Minimal X used to be TWM, if it is now icewm, then that would work fine. When I say temp desktop, I mean something available from the repositories {oss, update} to use to complete install and move files before adding the kde3 repo and installing that. If I could have/(knew I could have) added the kde3 repo, I could have just installed that.
In order to enable solver.onlyRequires = true as much as practical from the get-go I've been doing nearly all installs as minimal X for more than 2 years. Whether the default DE is TWM or IceWM, YaST2 works, but I don't install KDE3 or any other preferred DE that way. My installs always include MC, and on first boot (to multi-user, not graphical) I use it to configure repos directly in /etc/zypp/repos.d, which I empty to start with. For any I've not already made available on my LAN I use MC to copy the .repo file via FTP from a mirror. For the rest, I have them stashed on the LAN with suffixed non-redundant, whitespace-free names and with sorted content, and in multiple mirror flavors. For 13.1 the current list is at http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/SUSE/131/os131repos.txt. Note the timestamps. The repos I actually want enabled for a particular installation I copy without any suffix. For any repo I want disabled I simply remove its non-suffixed file. After getting repos.d the way I want it, I use zypper to install KDM3 and enough of KDE3 that I don't need to see the default WM and greeter before being able to reach YaST2 Software Management, when I even care to, which is not often post-installation. After installing the requisite rpms I goto /etc/sysconfig, edit windowmanager and displaymanager, then edit kdmrc to taste, then reboot to have KDM3 and KDE3 ready to use without ever having to see any other login greeter or DE. Whatever my minimal installs put in /etc/xdg/autostart I have no idea, as I can't remember ever looking to see what's even in there before this thread. The 13.1 installation I have booted currently (which has KDE4) has only 3 items: ati-spi-dbus-bus, gsettings-data-convert & print-applet. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/17/2014 04:27 AM, Felix Miata wrote:
Whatever my minimal installs put in /etc/xdg/autostart I have no idea, as I can't remember ever looking to see what's even in there before this thread. The 13.1 installation I have booted currently (which has KDE4) has only 3 items: ati-spi-dbus-bus, gsettings-data-convert & print-applet.
I'm sure the extended /etc/xdg/autostart list I got was due to installing most of my install on top of LXDE and then switching desktops at the end. All of the boxtop desktops rely heavily on gnome underpinnings. (which there is nothing wrong with that -- it works great, it just becomes an issue when you switch to a desktop that is not gnome based) I'll try a lighter initial install next time as you suggest and check what ends up in autostart. It has to be lighter than: at-spi-dbus-bus.desktop gmixer-trayicon.desktop gnome-keyring-gpg.desktop gnome-keyring-pkcs11.desktop gnome-keyring-secrets.desktop gnome-keyring-ssh.desktop gnome-settings-daemon.desktop gsynaptics-init.desktop hplip-systray.desktop nautilus-autostart.desktop nm-applet.desktop parcellite-startup.desktop polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1.desktop print-applet.desktop tracker-miner-fs.desktop tracker-store.desktop user-dirs-update-gtk.desktop xfce4-power-manager.desktop -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-07-17 11:52 (GMT-0500) David C. Rankin composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
Whatever my minimal installs put in /etc/xdg/autostart I have no idea, as I can't remember ever looking to see what's even in there before this thread. The 13.1 installation I have booted currently (which has KDE4) has only 3 items: ati-spi-dbus-bus, gsettings-data-convert & print-applet.
I'm sure the extended /etc/xdg/autostart list I got was due to installing most of my install on top of LXDE and then switching desktops at the end. All of the boxtop desktops rely heavily on gnome underpinnings.
(which there is nothing wrong with that -- it works great, it just becomes an issue when you switch to a desktop that is not gnome based)
I'll try a lighter initial install next time as you suggest and check what ends up in autostart.
I just did a minimal 13.1 install followed by a solver.onlyRequires=true zypper install of KDM and selected KDE4 packages (no KDE4 or other non-default patterns). That left these 6: at-spi-dbus-bus.desktop gnome-keyring-gpg.desktop gnome-keyring-pkcs11.desktop gnome-keyring-secrets.desktop gnome-keyring-ssh.desktop print-applet.desktop -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/18/2014 03:02 AM, Felix Miata wrote:
I just did a minimal 13.1 install followed by a solver.onlyRequires=true
That is something I have not yet tried. I will definitely give that a shot. One of the first things I do it restore the old zypper behavior of: solver.allowVendorChange = true However, either the solver.onlyRequires is something relatively new since 11.0 or I've just never paid attention to it. It is directly above solver.allowVendorChange in zypp.conf. Thanks for the tip Felix! -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 17/07/14 16:11, Per Jessen wrote:
David C. Rankin wrote:
The only shortcoming of the installer is that it only allows addition of the update/non-oss repositories instead of allowing any repository to be added. I would like to see it allow addition of any repository at install time. IIRC it's already there, at least it used to be.
I don't think that I have ever seen the option of adding whatever repo one wanted during the installation process - this was only possible after the oS was installed. And even then, it was not always possible to add some of the repos unless you knew what they were because the did not show up in the list of repos until *AFTER* the first update of the system. (I don't remember what is possible when installing Ubuntu; perhaps your memory is recalling what may be done when installing Ubuntu?) BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.13.3 & kernel 3.15.5-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/17/2014 02:02 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
I don't think that I have ever seen the option of adding whatever repo one wanted during the installation process - this was only possible after the oS was installed.
And even then, it was not always possible to add some of the repos unless you knew what they were because the did not show up in the list of repos until *AFTER* the first update of the system.
(I don't remember what is possible when installing Ubuntu; perhaps your memory is recalling what may be done when installing Ubuntu?)
Well 13.1 lets you choose additional repos pre-install. This is very important with the Net-Install to all you to install the updated packages the first time rather than downloading 2.8 Gigabytes of Oss, then configuring the update repo and finding you have another 2.8 Gigabytes of updates to download because all the minor-version for nearly all packages have incremented. So I was pleased to find this as standard for the install (at least it was when unchecking [ ] auto configuration -- I don't think that controls it, but worth mentioning) You are correct that the only choices you are presented with are Oss, Non-Oss and Update repos to add. That's why I mentioned it would be nice to be able to add any repo you like. What Felix was saying is he thinks that capability also exists. I did see an "Other Media" button that was listed and taken to refer to other CD's DVD's, but if you can use that to associate any http:// ftp://URL, then it looks like you may be able to add any repo. Which would prevent even more download duplication. I think I have that sorted.... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On July 17, 2014 4:31:56 AM EDT, "David C. Rankin" <drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com> wrote:
I don't think that I have ever seen the option of adding whatever repo one wanted during the installation process - this was only possible after
On 07/17/2014 02:02 AM, Basil Chupin wrote: the oS was
installed.
And even then, it was not always possible to add some of the repos unless you knew what they were because the did not show up in the list of repos until *AFTER* the first update of the system.
(I don't remember what is possible when installing Ubuntu; perhaps your memory is recalling what may be done when installing Ubuntu?)
Well 13.1 lets you choose additional repos pre-install. This is very important with the Net-Install to all you to install the updated packages the first time rather than downloading 2.8 Gigabytes of Oss, then configuring the update repo and finding you have another 2.8 Gigabytes of updates to download because all the minor-version for nearly all packages have incremented. So I was pleased to find this as standard for the install (at least it was when unchecking [ ] auto configuration -- I don't think that controls it, but worth mentioning)
You are correct that the only choices you are presented with are Oss, Non-Oss and Update repos to add. That's why I mentioned it would be nice to be able to add any repo you like.
I haven't tried it, but this walks you thru adding the community repos: http://markmail.org/message/ialshzb5ritr5jet Overly complex for sure. Greg -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/17/2014 07:12 AM, Greg Freemyer wrote:
I haven't tried it, but this walks you thru adding the community repos:
http://markmail.org/message/ialshzb5ritr5jet
Overly complex for sure.
Greg
I'll be damned! It looks like you now can add any repo at install time. I don't think the process will be that bad from reading the link. Basically just have download.opensuse.org/repositories up on your smart-phone for the link information and then add any repo you want. I'll definitely give that a try on my next install. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (5)
-
Basil Chupin -
David C. Rankin -
Felix Miata -
Greg Freemyer -
Per Jessen