[opensuse] Firefox v4.0b12 -- I don't see a Refresh button

Stan Goodman

9 Apr 2011 9 Apr '11

04:10

There must be one, where is it hidden? -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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Mark Goldstein

9 Apr 9 Apr

07:17

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 7:10 AM, Stan Goodman wrote:

...

There must be one, where is it hidden?

Yep, strange thing. It was the same for me in both Linux and Windows versions of FF 4.0. View -> Toolbars -> Customize. Now you'll suddenly see the "Refresh" and "Stop" buttons between address input and search input fields. Drag them where you'd like them and from that moment they are visible. -- Mark Goldstein -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Stan Goodman

05:52

On Saturday, April 09, 2011 10:17:47 AM Mark Goldstein Mark Goldstein wrote:

...

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 7:10 AM, Stan Goodman wrote:

...
There must be one, where is it hidden?

Yep, strange thing. It was the same for me in both Linux and Windows versions of FF 4.0.

View -> Toolbars -> Customize. Now you'll suddenly see the "Refresh" and "Stop" buttons between address input and search input fields. Drag them where you'd like them and from that moment they are visible.

Wierd, bordering on the screwy. I put the Refresh button to the left of the address field, and the Stop button between Refresh and the address field. After I dismissed the icon window, Refresh was still where I put it, but Stop is nowhere in sight. I thought that might mean that there was not sufficient room for it, so I moved the NoScript button to the status bar (where it belongs anyway) to free that space, and tried again. Stop still disappears. Placing it instead to the left of the new Refresh button makes it remain visible, but tantalizingly greyed out and useless. Why? This is not the only irrational feature of v4. After I changed the behavior of the Backspace key to "0" as I always do, I noticed that keys Home, End, PgUp, and PgDn have no effect in Firefox. I don't even try to imagine what the designers had in mind, but searching About:config for "browser...." lines that might offer ways to endow them with function turns up nothing that I recognize. How can these keys be "customized" by giving them their historically conventional roles? Yet another oddment: In View>Toolbars, I have all the available bars checked. The last two (Last Pass and AddOn) bars do not appear at all, and unchecking them in the list changes nothing in the appearance of the browser. I can live without them, but I don't understand the behavior. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Stan Goodman

06:10

On Saturday, April 09, 2011 08:52:46 AM Stan Goodman Stan Goodman wrote:

...

On Saturday, April 09, 2011 10:17:47 AM Mark Goldstein Mark Goldstein

wrote:

...
On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 7:10 AM, Stan Goodman

wrote:

...
...
There must be one, where is it hidden?

Yep, strange thing. It was the same for me in both Linux and Windows versions of FF 4.0.

View -> Toolbars -> Customize. Now you'll suddenly see the "Refresh" and "Stop" buttons between address input and search input fields. Drag them where you'd like them and from that moment they are visible.

Wierd, bordering on the screwy.

I put the Refresh button to the left of the address field, and the Stop button between Refresh and the address field. After I dismissed the icon window, Refresh was still where I put it, but Stop is nowhere in sight. I thought that might mean that there was not sufficient room for it, so I moved the NoScript button to the status bar (where it belongs anyway) to free that space, and tried again. Stop still disappears. Placing it instead to the left of the new Refresh button makes it remain visible, but tantalizingly greyed out and useless. Why?

Correction: Greyed out is the normal state for the Stop button, except during a change in the displayed page, so the behavior is correct. It remains true that Stop cannot be where I tried to place it at first; it disappears from there.

...

This is not the only irrational feature of v4. After I changed the behavior of the Backspace key to "0" as I always do, I noticed that keys Home, End, PgUp, and PgDn have no effect in Firefox. I don't even try to imagine what the designers had in mind, but searching About:config for "browser...." lines that might offer ways to endow them with function turns up nothing that I recognize. How can these keys be "customized" by giving them their historically conventional roles?

Yet another oddment: In View>Toolbars, I have all the available bars checked. The last two (Last Pass and AddOn) bars do not appear at all, and unchecking them in the list changes nothing in the appearance of the browser. I can live without them, but I don't understand the behavior.

-- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Mark Goldstein

09:21

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 9:10 AM, Stan Goodman wrote:

...

On Saturday, April 09, 2011 08:52:46 AM Stan Goodman Stan Goodman wrote:

...
On Saturday, April 09, 2011 10:17:47 AM Mark Goldstein Mark Goldstein

wrote:

...
On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 7:10 AM, Stan Goodman

wrote:

...
...
There must be one, where is it hidden?

Yep, strange thing. It was the same for me in both Linux and Windows versions of FF 4.0.

View -> Toolbars -> Customize. Now you'll suddenly see the "Refresh" and "Stop" buttons between address input and search input fields. Drag them where you'd like them and from that moment they are visible.

Wierd, bordering on the screwy.

I put the Refresh button to the left of the address field, and the Stop button between Refresh and the address field. After I dismissed the icon window, Refresh was still where I put it, but Stop is nowhere in sight. I thought that might mean that there was not sufficient room for it, so I moved the NoScript button to the status bar (where it belongs anyway) to free that space, and tried again. Stop still disappears. Placing it instead to the left of the new Refresh button makes it remain visible, but tantalizingly greyed out and useless. Why?

Correction: Greyed out is the normal state for the Stop button, except during a change in the displayed page, so the behavior is correct. It remains true that Stop cannot be where I tried to place it at first; it disappears from there.

...
This is not the only irrational feature of v4. After I changed the behavior of the Backspace key to "0" as I always do, I noticed that keys Home, End, PgUp, and PgDn have no effect in Firefox. I don't even try to imagine what the designers had in mind, but searching About:config for "browser...." lines that might offer ways to endow them with function turns up nothing that I recognize. How can these keys be "customized" by giving them their historically conventional roles?

Yet another oddment: In View>Toolbars, I have all the available bars checked. The last two (Last Pass and AddOn) bars do not appear at all, and unchecking them in the list changes nothing in the appearance of the browser. I can live without them, but I don't understand the behavior.

Looks like there are differences in different setups. I did not try beta, but official 4.0. Both in MS Win and in Linux these 2 buttons were not where C. described, and appeared BETWEEN address and search fields when I tried to "customize". In Windows it took me 2 attempts, exactly as Stan described, since after the first one "Stop" disappeared again. I moved them back and forth and eventually they are there. In Linux it worked from the first attempt, but I dragged "Home" as well, so the order of the buttons is "Back", "Forward", "Stop", "Refresh", "Home"... And I do not have the "Last Pass" bar, mentioned by Stan (what is it?), and when I checked AddOn bar, I do have it at the bottom (some extensions I'm using put their icons there). -- Mark Goldstein -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

C

12:08

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:21, Mark Goldstein wrote:

...

I did not try beta, but official 4.0. Both in MS Win and in Linux these 2 buttons were not where C. described, and appeared BETWEEN address and search fields when I tried to "customize".

Sigh.. everything you're looking for is there in a default Firefox4 configuration... as in before you start farting around and changing the UI layout. Load up a DEFAULT Firefox 4 configuration in Windows or Linux.. it doesn't matter... the layout is identical. The Refresh and Stop button are combined into one object, and if the browser is idle, the button is greyed out and looks like a small Reload button (circle arrow). The button position is at the far right of the URL bar... if you're looking at the ULR bar, then to the left there is a Star, a down pointing arrow, and then the Stop/Refresh combo button (as part of the end of the URL bar) followed by the Search field. The status bar is also still there... The page loading information and link hover information hidden unless there is something to display. If it has something to show, it'll pop up that info at the bottom left of the browser window (eg hover over a link and the link destination will be shown in a popup tooltip at the bottom left of the browser window). Some add-ons and browser applications used the former Status bar to provide information as well. These are now moved to the Add-on bar. If there are no add-ons that use this bar, then the bar is hidden by default. If you install an add-on such as AdBlock Pro, then the Add-on bar is shown at the bottom of your browser with the AdBlock information contained within. This is the SAME regardless of using Linux, Windows or whatever. Visually the only noticeable difference between Firefox4 on Linux and Firefox 4 on Windows is the tabs and menu bar configuration. The menu bar is shown by default in Linux, but you can turn it off and you get the same layout style then as in Windows. The tabs in Windows are slightly higher than in Linux (ie they extend up into the Title bar area in Windows). If you don't like the new layout, then you can change it. When you go into Toolbar layout, the Stop and Refresh button are shown are two colored buttons next to each other. If you drag them BOTH elsewhere... say to the left next to the Back and Forward buttons, then close the Customization window, they are again combined into ONE button. They only remain separate buttons if they are NOT placed next to each other on the bat. The short of this is, in a default configuration, the buttons are not missing, the Firefox designers did not remove them or the status bar, they simply changed how the UI is configured. All the buttons are still there, and all the information that the status bar displayed is still there. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Stan Goodman

10:17

On Saturday, April 09, 2011 03:08:27 PM C C wrote:

...

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:21, Mark Goldstein wrote:

...
I did not try beta, but official 4.0. Both in MS Win and in Linux these 2 buttons were not where C. described, and appeared BETWEEN address and search fields when I tried to "customize".

Sigh.. everything you're looking for is there in a default Firefox4 configuration... as in before you start farting around and changing the UI layout.

Groan... When I wrote my original query, I had not been "farting around and changing the UI layout". In fact, I had changed nothing save the behavior of the Backspace key. I also had no difficulty in seeing the status bar. The UI was essentially in its default state. I had searched all the toolbars for a Refresh icon but found none. Refresh should be an easy one to find, because it is always very intuitive, opposing arrowheads in a circle. I am sure that it was simply not there. I also searched the Customize window for a Refresh icon, ,but found none; it is possible to argue that I should have seen it where Mark later pointed it out, but by then I had already written off the toolbars, and had no expectation of finding anything new on them. Nobody, in the meantime has commented on the apparent death of keys Home, End, PgUp and PgDn. In the past, these have been very useful for me in navigating over a page. Yes, there are other ways (plural) to do the same actions. But I cannot believe that developers would eliminate these keys for now reason without supplying a configuration option as in the case of the Backspace key. Do I overestimate the design team? It's worse than that, actually: Pressing the Up arrow causes the same action that Home used to do, instead of just moving up one line. A terrible hash has been made of these keys, for no apparent reason at all. I would be delighted to be corrected. I hope somebody will do that.

...

Load up a DEFAULT Firefox 4 configuration in Windows or Linux.. it doesn't matter... the layout is identical. The Refresh and Stop button are combined into one object, and if the browser is idle, the button is greyed out and looks like a small Reload button (circle arrow). The button position is at the far right of the URL bar... if you're looking at the ULR bar, then to the left there is a Star, a down pointing arrow, and then the Stop/Refresh combo button (as part of the end of the URL bar) followed by the Search field.

The status bar is also still there... The page loading information and link hover information hidden unless there is something to display. If it has something to show, it'll pop up that info at the bottom left of the browser window (eg hover over a link and the link destination will be shown in a popup tooltip at the bottom left of the browser window). Some add-ons and browser applications used the former Status bar to provide information as well. These are now moved to the Add-on bar. If there are no add-ons that use this bar, then the bar is hidden by default. If you install an add-on such as AdBlock Pro, then the Add-on bar is shown at the bottom of your browser with the AdBlock information contained within.

This is the SAME regardless of using Linux, Windows or whatever.

Visually the only noticeable difference between Firefox4 on Linux and Firefox 4 on Windows is the tabs and menu bar configuration. The menu bar is shown by default in Linux, but you can turn it off and you get the same layout style then as in Windows. The tabs in Windows are slightly higher than in Linux (ie they extend up into the Title bar area in Windows).

If you don't like the new layout, then you can change it. When you go into Toolbar layout, the Stop and Refresh button are shown are two colored buttons next to each other. If you drag them BOTH elsewhere... say to the left next to the Back and Forward buttons, then close the Customization window, they are again combined into ONE button. They only remain separate buttons if they are NOT placed next to each other on the bat.

That is not accurate. I now have the two buttons adjacent to each other, with Stop on the left. In the opposite order, Stop disappears. No doubt there is a good reason for this difference, and the Good Lord knows what it is.

...

The short of this is, in a default configuration, the buttons are not missing, the Firefox designers did not remove them or the status bar, they simply changed how the UI is configured. All the buttons are still there, and all the information that the status bar displayed is still there.

C.

-- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

C

12:17

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 14:08, C wrote:

...

Load up a DEFAULT Firefox 4 configuration in Windows or Linux.. it doesn't matter... the layout is identical. The Refresh and Stop button are combined into one object, and if the browser is idle, the button is greyed out and looks like a small Reload button (circle arrow). The button position is at the far right of the URL bar... if you're looking at the ULR bar, then to the left there is a Star, a down pointing arrow, and then the Stop/Refresh combo button (as part of the end of the URL bar) followed by the Search field.

Errr.. that should be The button position is at the far right of the URL bar... if you're looking at the ULR bar, then to the RIGHT there is a Star, a down pointing arrow, and then the Stop/Refresh combo button (as part of the end of the URL bar) followed by the Search field. I mix up my left and right too much :-P C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Peter Nikolic

09:13

On Saturday 09 April 2011 06:52:46 Stan Goodman wrote:

...

On Saturday, April 09, 2011 10:17:47 AM Mark Goldstein Mark Goldstein

wrote:

...
On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 7:10 AM, Stan Goodman

wrote:

...
...
There must be one, where is it hidden?

Yep, strange thing. It was the same for me in both Linux and Windows versions of FF 4.0.

View -> Toolbars -> Customize. Now you'll suddenly see the "Refresh" and "Stop" buttons between address input and search input fields. Drag them where you'd like them and from that moment they are visible.

Wierd, bordering on the screwy.

I put the Refresh button to the left of the address field, and the Stop button between Refresh and the address field. After I dismissed the icon window, Refresh was still where I put it, but Stop is nowhere in sight. I thought that might mean that there was not sufficient room for it, so I moved the NoScript button to the status bar (where it belongs anyway) to free that space, and tried again. Stop still disappears. Placing it instead to the left of the new Refresh button makes it remain visible, but tantalizingly greyed out and useless. Why?

Are you sure the page you are tryin to refres is fully loaded to start with ? the Refresh button is greyed out when the page is updating or loading if you stop the page loading then the refresh button will go green

...

This is not the only irrational feature of v4. After I changed the behavior of the Backspace key to "0" as I always do, I noticed that keys Home, End, PgUp, and PgDn have no effect in Firefox. I don't even try to imagine what the designers had in mind, but searching About:config for "browser...." lines that might offer ways to endow them with function turns up nothing that I recognize. How can these keys be "customized" by giving them their historically conventional roles?

Yet another oddment: In View>Toolbars, I have all the available bars checked. The last two (Last Pass and AddOn) bars do not appear at all, and unchecking them in the list changes nothing in the appearance of the browser. I can live without them, but I don't understand the behavior.

-- Powered by openSUSE 11.3 (x86_64) Kernel: 2.6.34.7-0.7-desktop KDE Development Platform: 4.5.5 (KDE 4.5.5) "release 1" 10:10 up 2 days 10:23, 5 users, load average: 0.02, 0.03, 0.00 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Basil Chupin

10 Apr 10 Apr

01:18

On 09/04/2011 15:52, Stan Goodman wrote:

...

On Saturday, April 09, 2011 10:17:47 AM Mark Goldstein Mark Goldstein wrote:

...
On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 7:10 AM, Stan Goodman wrote:

...
There must be one, where is it hidden? Yep, strange thing. It was the same for me in both Linux and Windows versions of FF 4.0.

View -> Toolbars -> Customize. Now you'll suddenly see the "Refresh" and "Stop" buttons between address input and search input fields. Drag them where you'd like them and from that moment they are visible. Wierd, bordering on the screwy.

I put the Refresh button to the left of the address field, and the Stop button between Refresh and the address field. After I dismissed the icon window, Refresh was still where I put it, but Stop is nowhere in sight. I thought that might mean that there was not sufficient room for it, so I moved the NoScript button to the status bar (where it belongs anyway) to free that space, and tried again. Stop still disappears. Placing it instead to the left of the new Refresh button makes it remain visible, but tantalizingly greyed out and useless. Why?

Isn't the STOP icon/button now on the RIGHT hand side of that toolbar? That's where it is here. BC -- "I believe what I am programmed to believe." A robot in Futuruma -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Stan Goodman

03:06

On Sunday, April 10, 2011 04:18:49 AM Basil Chupin Basil Chupin wrote:

...

On 09/04/2011 15:52, Stan Goodman wrote:

...
On Saturday, April 09, 2011 10:17:47 AM Mark Goldstein Mark Goldstein

wrote:

...
On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 7:10 AM, Stan Goodman

wrote:

...
...
There must be one, where is it hidden?

Yep, strange thing. It was the same for me in both Linux and Windows versions of FF 4.0.

View -> Toolbars -> Customize. Now you'll suddenly see the "Refresh" and "Stop" buttons between address input and search input fields. Drag them where you'd like them and from that moment they are visible.

Wierd, bordering on the screwy.

I put the Refresh button to the left of the address field, and the Stop button between Refresh and the address field. After I dismissed the icon window, Refresh was still where I put it, but Stop is nowhere in sight. I thought that might mean that there was not sufficient room for it, so I moved the NoScript button to the status bar (where it belongs anyway) to free that space, and tried again. Stop still disappears. Placing it instead to the left of the new Refresh button makes it remain visible, but tantalizingly greyed out and useless. Why?

Isn't the STOP icon/button now on the RIGHT hand side of that toolbar? That's where it is here.

The default was that both Refresh and Stop were immediately to the right of the address field. I put them at the left of that field. It turned out that the order of the two is important, as I said elsewhere in this thread. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

C

9 Apr 9 Apr

07:47

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 09:17, Mark Goldstein wrote:

...

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 7:10 AM, Stan Goodman wrote:

...
There must be one, where is it hidden?

Yep, strange thing. It was the same for me in both Linux and Windows versions of FF 4.0.

View -> Toolbars -> Customize. Now you'll suddenly see the "Refresh" and "Stop" buttons between address input and search input fields. Drag them where you'd like them and from that moment they are visible.

Ummmm.... they were visible before too.... just not bright colors. In Firefox 4 the Refresh and Stop button is combined into one element and is on the far right end of the address bar next to the Star used to book make a page - basically exactly where they "appeared" when you tried to customize the layout. In other words, you did not have to customize your layout to make them show up... it was there all along. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Felix Miata

10:08

On 2011/04/09 07:10 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman composed:

...

There must be one, where is it hidden?

It's in basically the same place as the latest versions of other mainstream browsers, IN (or next to) the urlbar, on the opposite end of where everyone using older browsers (like FF3) is used to seeing it. If you haven't tried SeaMonkey, and FF4 is bothering you, maybe you it's time you try it. Its engine is identical to that used in FF. The differences are in skin, and standard equipment. Latest official SeaMonkey release 2.0.13 is equivalent to FF3.x, while the FF4 equivalent is still in beta, and what I'm using 24/7, 2.1B3 released Thursday. http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/Moz/sm2-1b3.jpg shows the readily apparent stop and reload buttons where the live by default, and the search box and home buttons where I put them. What is not apparent is the retained ability to assign a URL to the throbber, in essence providing another home or hot button, for instance for web mail or Bugzilla search. The FF dev wizards (sic) responsible for no status bar in FF4 took that out of FF several versions back, 2.0 IIRC. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Daniel Bauer

10:58

On Saturday 09 April 2011 12:08:38, Felix Miata wrote:

...

On 2011/04/09 07:10 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman composed:

...
There must be one, where is it hidden?

It's in basically the same place as the latest versions of other mainstream browsers, IN (or next to) the urlbar, on the opposite end of where everyone using older browsers (like FF3) is used to seeing it.

If you haven't tried SeaMonkey, and FF4 is bothering you, maybe you it's time you try it. Its engine is identical to that used in FF. The differences are in skin, and standard equipment. Latest official SeaMonkey release 2.0.13 is equivalent to FF3.x, while the FF4 equivalent is still in beta, and what I'm using 24/7, 2.1B3 released Thursday. http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/Moz/sm2-1b3.jpg shows the readily apparent stop and reload buttons where the live by default, and the search box and home buttons where I put them. What is not apparent is the retained ability to assign a URL to the throbber, in essence providing another home or hot button, for instance for web mail or Bugzilla search. The FF dev wizards (sic) responsible for no status bar in FF4 took that out of FF several versions back, 2.0 IIRC.

I also prefer seamonkey, although its always a little behind the actual FF. The settings and handling (cookies for example) are way better and easier than in FF. Daniel -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona professional photography: http://www.daniel-bauer.com erotic nudes: http://www.guapamania.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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Basil Chupin
C
Daniel Bauer
Felix Miata
Mark Goldstein
Peter Nikolic
Stan Goodman