[opensuse] Anyone understand what my ISP is doing?
In my country, to connect to the internet one must have both an infrastructure provider (ADSL or cable) _and_ an ISP (outside IP address). To connect, one uses an L2TP 'dialer' to 'dial into' the infrastructure provider. Of course, there is no Linux dialer so Linux users are either using an old, unmaintained script from a defunct ISP or using a router (most consumer grade routers can dial L2TP connections). Today, after hours of problems with the infrastructure provider, she authorized me to connect without a dialer. She even had me on hold for 15 minutes while she got permission from the ISP to let me connect without a dialer. I do not know what was the original problem that prevented me from connecting today, but with this no-dialer workaround my 'net connection is faster (as a side-efect, apparently). Does anybody have any idea what is going on here? All the info that I can find online suggests that in other countries there is only an ISP, who provides the infrastructure himself. Where can I find information on the system that I described, so that I can better understand it? Thanks. For the details, my country is Israel, my infrastructure is Hot (cable connection), and my ISP is Bezeq Benleumi. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, 2008-12-04 at 18:00 +0200, Dotan Cohen wrote:
Does anybody have any idea what is going on here? All the info that I can find online suggests that in other countries there is only an ISP, who provides the infrastructure himself. Where can I find information on the system that I described, so that I can better understand it? Thanks.
A very wild guess: it is similar to what happens in Spain, but you only do business with the ISP, it is handled transparently. Officially, you can hire an adsl connection from a number of companies. But in fact, the "copper pair" belongs to only one company (with exceptions). Therefore, the adsl "whatever box" on the ISP resides instead at the old telephone company offices, at the point the copper pair enters the exchange. The ISP has to rent some space there for their own equipment. How exactly they do this, I don't really know. I have my guesses, but I never worked on that "section"... - From the user point of view, it is transparent. They give you a router, and you configure it with a set of rules, or it comes already preconfigured. This is what I recommend: get a router from the ISP, or one supported by them. Less trouble with Linux. Interestingly, the router runs Linux internally! Even the payments can be transparent, you only pay the ISP, and it is the ISP who pays the old telephone company for the services they rent, if any. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkk4AvgACgkQtTMYHG2NR9W+ygCgkNlBgcp8VKapybZbgjlIjWBz RogAnRTNZrZi4Mz1lUpbHQ//4cTfZWQ5 =411M -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Does anybody have any idea what is going on here? All the info that I can find online suggests that in other countries there is only an ISP, who provides the infrastructure himself. Where can I find information on the system that I described, so that I can better understand it? Thanks.
A very wild guess: it is similar to what happens in Spain, but you only do business with the ISP, it is handled transparently.
That is also similar to ISPs in Germany.
- From the user point of view, it is transparent. They give you a router, and you configure it with a set of rules, or it comes already preconfigured. This is what I recommend: get a router from the ISP, or one supported by them. Less trouble with Linux. Interestingly, the router runs Linux internally!
FOr my ADSL ISP, I have to log in using a username and password. Connecting direct from Linux was a pain.. possible, but a pain... and then I discovered that my Netgear WiFi/wired router can do the login for me. Set it up to take care of it, and no problems at all.. I boot my Netgear router, it connects to the ISPs router, and via that logs me into the ISP. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Dotan Cohen wrote:
In my country, to connect to the internet one must have both an infrastructure provider (ADSL or cable) _and_ an ISP (outside IP address).
The same applies here in Switzerland. Sometimes the infrastructure provider and the ISP are one and the same. (Swisscom and Bluewin for instance).
To connect, one uses an L2TP 'dialer' to 'dial into' the infrastructure provider. Of course, there is no Linux dialer so Linux users are either using an old, unmaintained script from a defunct ISP or using a router (most consumer grade routers can dial L2TP connections).
A couple of years ago I did some experiments with an ADSL plugin card - I'm pretty certain I used plain PPP/expect scripts for logging in and all that. /Per -- /Per Jessen, Zürich -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
2008/12/4 Per Jessen <per@opensuse.org>:
Dotan Cohen wrote:
In my country, to connect to the internet one must have both an infrastructure provider (ADSL or cable) _and_ an ISP (outside IP address).
The same applies here in Switzerland. Sometimes the infrastructure provider and the ISP are one and the same. (Swisscom and Bluewin for instance).
To connect, one uses an L2TP 'dialer' to 'dial into' the infrastructure provider. Of course, there is no Linux dialer so Linux users are either using an old, unmaintained script from a defunct ISP or using a router (most consumer grade routers can dial L2TP connections).
A couple of years ago I did some experiments with an ADSL plugin card - I'm pretty certain I used plain PPP/expect scripts for logging in and all that.
Yes, the outdated scripts used PPP but when connecting via a router one uses L2TP. The ISP supports both. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
Dotan Cohen wrote:
2008/12/4 Per Jessen <per@opensuse.org>:
Dotan Cohen wrote:
In my country, to connect to the internet one must have both an infrastructure provider (ADSL or cable) _and_ an ISP (outside IP address).
The same applies here in Switzerland. Sometimes the infrastructure provider and the ISP are one and the same. (Swisscom and Bluewin for instance).
To connect, one uses an L2TP 'dialer' to 'dial into' the infrastructure provider. Of course, there is no Linux dialer so Linux users are either using an old, unmaintained script from a defunct ISP or using a router (most consumer grade routers can dial L2TP connections).
A couple of years ago I did some experiments with an ADSL plugin card - I'm pretty certain I used plain PPP/expect scripts for logging in and all that.
Yes, the outdated scripts used PPP but when connecting via a router one uses L2TP. The ISP supports both.
That must be infrastructure specific and not really a CPE hardware issue. Our ADSL connection also uses a router, but the tunneling is with PPPoE or PPPoA. L2TP and PPPoX must be fairly closely related, I would think. /Per -- /Per Jessen, Zürich -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 11:39, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, the outdated scripts used PPP but when connecting via a router one uses L2TP. The ISP supports both.
If the ISP uses PPPoE that is very well supported. You can setup the connection if YaST. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
2008/12/5 Andrew Joakimsen <joakimsen@gmail.com>:
On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 11:39, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, the outdated scripts used PPP but when connecting via a router one uses L2TP. The ISP supports both.
If the ISP uses PPPoE that is very well supported. You can setup the connection if YaST.
Really, in Yast?!? I will have to look into that: I have two people who want me to install Kubuntu for them, but I do not want to play with the scripts and they don't want to buy routers (I don't blame them). I might try installing OpenSuse for them instead. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
Dotan Cohen wrote:
2008/12/5 Andrew Joakimsen <joakimsen@gmail.com>:
On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 11:39, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, the outdated scripts used PPP but when connecting via a router one uses L2TP. The ISP supports both.
If the ISP uses PPPoE that is very well supported. You can setup the connection if YaST.
Really, in Yast?!? I will have to look into that: I have two people who want me to install Kubuntu for them, but I do not want to play with the scripts and they don't want to buy routers (I don't blame them). I might try installing OpenSuse for them instead.
Just wondering - what sort of ADSL equipment (modems, routers) are those people using then? I think I said yesterday that we're using a Zyxel ADSL modem/router - I can't quite see what's wrong with that type of solution. /Per -- /Per Jessen, Zürich -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
2008/12/5 Per Jessen <per@opensuse.org>:
Just wondering - what sort of ADSL equipment (modems, routers) are those people using then? I think I said yesterday that we're using a Zyxel ADSL modem/router - I can't quite see what's wrong with that type of solution.
Here, the infrastructure providers provide a modem. The modems do not have internal routers, and the web-based modem control panels are disabled. I've run into modems that will not even answer to a ping from the LAN side, making troubleshooting difficult. There are even modems that connect to the PC via USB cable. I have not tried these modems with and Linux distro, but for some reason I do not think that they would work! -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
On Friday 05 December 2008 15:00:30 Dotan Cohen wrote:
There are even modems that connect to the PC via USB cable. I have not tried these modems with and Linux distro, but for some reason I do not think that they would work!
They work well if the modem understands "AT" command set. Otherwise you need to install a driver in order to have an "AT" capable modem. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
2008/12/5 Bogdan Cristea <cristeab@gmail.com>:
On Friday 05 December 2008 15:00:30 Dotan Cohen wrote:
There are even modems that connect to the PC via USB cable. I have not tried these modems with and Linux distro, but for some reason I do not think that they would work!
They work well if the modem understands "AT" command set. Otherwise you need to install a driver in order to have an "AT" capable modem.
They work even better in the trash can. I tell the infrastructure that they either provide me with real networking equipment or I will go elsewhere. There is not much else where to go, though, with only two infrastructure providers on average for each given area. USB is great for low bandwidth, temporary storage and transfer, such as disk on key, keyboards, and printers. It is not good for high thoroughput, low latency connections. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü N�����r��y隊Z)z{.�ﮞ˛���m�)z{.��+�Z+i�b�*'jW(�f�vǦj)h���Ǿ��i����� ��
On Friday 05 December 2008 15:12:25 you wrote:
2008/12/5 Bogdan Cristea <cristeab@gmail.com>:
On Friday 05 December 2008 15:00:30 Dotan Cohen wrote:
There are even modems that connect to the PC via USB cable. I have not tried these modems with and Linux distro, but for some reason I do not think that they would work!
They work well if the modem understands "AT" command set. Otherwise you need to install a driver in order to have an "AT" capable modem.
They work even better in the trash can. I tell the infrastructure that they either provide me with real networking equipment or I will go elsewhere. There is not much else where to go, though, with only two infrastructure providers on average for each given area. USB is great for low bandwidth, temporary storage and transfer, such as disk on key, keyboards, and printers. It is not good for high thoroughput, low latency connections.
It depends what you need. A wireless USB modem is very good when you need mobility, with download rates ~100 kB/s -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
2008/12/5 Bogdan Cristea <cristeab@gmail.com>:
It depends what you need. A wireless USB modem is very good when you need mobility, with download rates ~100 kB/s
In specialty applications like you mention, I agree with you. But as one's main connection to the 'net? No, thanks. There is a reason that ethernet is on the northbridge and USB on the south. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 03:23, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen@gmail.com> wrote:
2008/12/5 Andrew Joakimsen <joakimsen@gmail.com>:
On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 11:39, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, the outdated scripts used PPP but when connecting via a router one uses L2TP. The ISP supports both.
If the ISP uses PPPoE that is very well supported. You can setup the connection if YaST.
Really, in Yast?!? I will have to look into that: I have two people who want me to install Kubuntu for them, but I do not want to play with the scripts and they don't want to buy routers (I don't blame them). I might try installing OpenSuse for them instead.
Yes! Under Yast > Network Devices > DSL Just click "Add" It's that simple. It will work on any Ethernet modem set to bridge mode. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Dotan Cohen wrote:
In my country, to connect to the internet one must have both an infrastructure provider (ADSL or cable) _and_ an ISP (outside IP address). To connect, one uses an L2TP 'dialer' to 'dial into' the infrastructure provider. Of course, there is no Linux dialer so Linux users are either using an old, unmaintained script from a defunct ISP or using a router (most consumer grade routers can dial L2TP connections).
Today, after hours of problems with the infrastructure provider, she authorized me to connect without a dialer. She even had me on hold for 15 minutes while she got permission from the ISP to let me connect without a dialer. I do not know what was the original problem that prevented me from connecting today, but with this no-dialer workaround my 'net connection is faster (as a side-efect, apparently).
Does anybody have any idea what is going on here? All the info that I can find online suggests that in other countries there is only an ISP, who provides the infrastructure himself. Where can I find information on the system that I described, so that I can better understand it? Thanks.
For the details, my country is Israel, my infrastructure is Hot (cable connection), and my ISP is Bezeq Benleumi.
In Canada, there are many ADSL providers, though the local phone company usually provides the connection. PPPoE is frequently used. -- Use OpenOffice.org <http://www.openoffice.org> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Andrew Joakimsen -
Bogdan Cristea -
Carlos E. R. -
Clayton -
Dotan Cohen -
James Knott -
Per Jessen