On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 9:10 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:

Using this forum as a crutch for basic questions may get you answers fast, but it means you are not going to learn very well.  If you worked your way though those books and e-books  and the articles you find googling you will learn more about the why and wherefore of these matters and a lot of supporting and context information that direct answers to your questions here won't give you.

Yes but then why these mailing lists are for? I am a newbie, I don't have the time to learn all the things but I have to implement the things. Yes many persons here told me from the basics too and I readily accepted/got their suggestion. Many persons, David C, Carlos, Ken Schneider, LLLActive, Patrick, Johannes Meixner, Baker, etc...etc.. many others have suggested me basic commands and things, and that's what the beauty of Mailing list, if you don't want to give me that, I request you to please don't give; whoever else could do, he/she would do that part, you should not worry about that. -- THX -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Bob Williams wrote:

The point he is making is that all the people on this list are volunteers who give their time and expertise freely and generously. If you have a question about encryption, it takes much the same effort to type 'opensuse linux encryption' into the search bar of your web browser as it does to post your question here. And you'll probably get much more information. The best way to use the resources of this list is _after_ you've read the man pages, done a google search, and even tried a bit of experimenting with commands or config files. And, as Anton says, you'll learn much faster by getting your hands dirty under the bonnet/hood of your own machine.

Yeah sure, I just wanted something ***ready***, because of that, probably thought for a possibility and yes installed openSUSE keeping in mind that openSUSE from GUI would make me do everything and as it is Linux too, I thought earlier that openSUSE is the best place, but one thing I forgot that here too are required self experiments - it is not like that everything in GUI is ready to be used - perhaps bad part of Linux. But I agree that Google search and reading documentation could do that.

Enjoy your time here, and have fun ....

Thanks. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 10:06 AM, James Knott <james.knott@rogers.com> wrote:

I use KDE, so I have no idea about Gnome. Right click on a folder or file Select Actions You'll see your choices.

I too use KDE. But when I tried doing that, it said for something related with certificates..., I don't know why....? I had installed 'encfs' but didn't know how to use. I would Google though.

BTW, as others have mentioned, it's your responsibility to learn about things and not just come here with questions that you can answer on your own with a bit of effort.

I would do that now.

The best way to learn is to read and try.

I am completely agreeing with you but with me is the time factor (since I am in other job) and probably this is the reason I guess, I am facing problems in Linux, but still, I would try to manage on holidays. Thanks.

You can even set up test users or systems where you can experiment all you want.

Nice suggestion. I would try to.

We like to help people, but it's nice to see them put some effort into it.

Ah that's really great. And I used to thought that, it is true only for technical people, but now I know that it is even true for non-technical people. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 10:06 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:

You are missing my point.

Those people, myself included, were volunteering our time to get you started.

I thank to all of you for this.

You are now asking RTFM questions. This list should be your _last_ resource *AFTER* you have read the relevant manual pages, googled and read the HOW-TO and commentaries and, hopefully, experimented.

Yes, perhaps I missed that and the reason is that I really get less time (might be I have to manage the time, anyway).

If you use this list as first resource without taking any initiative two things will happen.

1. You won't learn for yourself. 2. People will become fed up with you asking questions that a little bit of initiative on your part (RTFM/google) could have answered.

Yes that is correct, but I really forgot that it is to be done by self. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 10:10 AM, James Knott wrote:

So we're supposed to give up our time, because you don't want to do your own research? Most of us are busy too.

It is not that I don't want to do my own research, but I should get the time for that too (yes it is my headache). But I would try to manage that (***time***). At last, I would just want to say the following which is true for me: "I used to think (earlier, before this post) that Linux is just a great type of Windows (yes, I am Windows migrant). And yes it ready to use with all GUIs (like openSUSE) and here you get everything working without doing your own research and though Linux is understood to be used better as command line but now a days GUI options are so great that everything - each and every thing you can do using GUI. So, if you are in some other job which is not at all related with computers, you can install the openSUSE, and use it. Now I think (after this post): Yes Linux is very good but one needs one's own efforts to work and use it easily. If you are from other job, try to spend the time and learn on the Linux box. It needs initiatives and then you can use it very easily." Yeah, I may be wrong in thinking but I have liked openSUSE - best KDE with best GUI but perhaps I would require time to go through the basics. -- THX -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Bob Williams wrote:

I would recommend reading this <http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm>

Good link, thanks, it describes the differentiation. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:

Try reading "In the beginning was the command line", or better still the annotated version at http://garote.bdmonkeys.net/commandline/index.html

Yeah tried, good.

Tell that to the small-business IT guy who plugs the network cable into the back of his freshly installed Windows XP box, only to have it infected with a virus in less than 20 seconds. Or the publishing house that spent ten thousand dollars upgrading Word, only to discover that their documents now looked like garbage to every editor and author they worked with. "Poorly considered and self-defeating" could just as easily describe the actions of a Microsoft customer.

Yes, and the GUI changes with each release of Windows. With Linux you lean the principles and patterns can can apply them not only across releases from one vendor, but across vendors, across desktop managers and even to non-Linux systems such as AIX, Solaris and HP/UX. And if you find an antique like SCO UNIX you won't be baffled! So changing GUI, be it from KDE to XFCE to E17 isn't going to stop you. You may _prefer_ one or the other, but that a matter of YOUR choice, just like the colour and style and position of your living room couch or the music you listen to or what you have for dinner is a choice. Microsoft may give the impression of a choice because you can change the colour of your windows background, but that's not really choosing something fundamental.

Long, but good explanation. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:

You seem to be forgetting that the people who answer questions on mailing lists and in forums volunteer their time.

You are taking it wrong ways, since I am not forgetting.

Take a few minutes and read the excellent tutorial written by Eric Raymond entitled "How to ask questions the smart way", located at

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Sure.

You will go much further if you do your homework ahead of time. We're not here to read the manual to you, nor are we here to use Google for you.

BTW, another place where you will find many beginners using openSUSE is the openSUSE forums at http://forums.opensuse.org. The same caveats apply there, though - don't expect the volunteers to do your homework for you. If something can be found in the documentation or by searching the existing messages (or in the forums, the 'stickies' at the top of some of the forums), you'll receive a somewhat similar reaction to what you received on the mailing list.

Yeah Jim, thaks for the suggestion. But I really at this stage need assistance. I guess, as a newbie, I would have to switch to a different distro, no matter how excellent is openSUSE but for me, support matters a lot. Yes, I saw in Fedora, for which even a small mail, people get many responses and they do let you know from each step - I guess a better thing for me. However, on one side, I know openSUSE is more smooth and the best, but I am D-O-N-E, as if now, would have to switch to some different distro, and by the time, I learn Linux, would switch back to openSUSE. Thanks for your help. Yes, I do need something to be explained from much basic level, I cannot go google and learn all the technical stuff - consider it my con or pro whatever. Perhaps, I am in other job, that's why. I wonder why on website is has been declared as the easiest distro for even non-technical community! Yeah, it is excellent (100%) but not easy for non-technical people. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Then, we have the time to write a long answer, when that answer is already written where you can find it somewhere else? And when we have already pointed you at documents for you to read?

Absolutely not, but I don't understand why you people are again and again saying the same thing, while already I told yes, I would do google, again you write this, does second writing server any special purpose?

You are askin us to spend up our time writting again what it is already written.

We are also busy people, and not paid.

I know you are busy, that's already said.

The list is for asking precise questions, like when you read a document and do not understand it and ask for clarification. Or when you are configuring something, it doesn't work, and you ask us if we can see the fault that you do not see.

Concrete, precise questions. Do not ask us to write the book.

Sure but I am D-O-N-E (as if now). On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Hans Witvliet wrote:

Hire a consultant...

Not right now. On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 10:50 AM, Sam Vagni wrote:

Start from http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encryption

Thanks for link.

I also (like you) don't get time, I am at all busy, but I am using opensuse (the same you are using, perhaps 11.4 as you say somewhere earlier). I just use it: for the work I have to do, I don't get time, so right now NOT learning it. But at the same time, I am NOT asking questions. So the most important thing is that you have to read first. I understand that you are a newbie, so I am, but remember that opensuse is the most nicest distro I have ever seen, in fact, it has been developed by brilliant developers and everybody here is willing to help provided you read the docs, the basics which are as easy as you do other work. Tyro, I am also beginner like you and I am also in other job, so I don't get time, does that mean that people would prepare the notes for you?

I have used Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu and many other distros for my personal work. But opensuse, is the best amongst them, it is my experience. You don't (in fact, never) get any conflicts (at least, I have not got) in virtually any area. Simple, GUI installation, online documentation, everything.

Tyro, don't take it otherwise and conclude that if you don't have the time, simply use opensuse without learning, it would give all the things you need. If you have time or you can manage (as you say), try to learn the basic concept first.

See, you wrote for encryption, did you find the page:

http://tr.opensuse.org/SDB:Setting_a_Password_for_the_Boot_Manager_GRUB

which I found at google! I googled it just for you! But I never did that password encryption, since I didn't get time, but if I were doing that, I could have searched in google like I did for you. It took around 20-30 secs and the result is this page.

So it is the time for you to have fund, forget about all the previous mistakes, start from fresh mind and learn learn learn, read the docs, read the docs, use google, use google, use google!

Well, you are true but I need that type of assistance which is quite I have seen in Fedora and / or Ubuntu where people do let you know from the very first step. While openSUSE can be very good in all aspects but for support I would rank Fedora and Ubuntu ahead of openSUSE. Thanks for your suggestions. But I am D-O-N-E.

All the best.

Greetings,

Thanks. -- THX -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:14 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:

Since you are new to Linux and seem to need a bit of hand holding maybe searching for a LUG (Linux User Group) in your area would be helpful?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_User_Group

I would try and search for it. On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 1:44 AM, Michael S. Dunsavage wrote:

Well that's a shame. It's a shame that you can't seem to understand that what we're saying is google and experiment and then we can help you with stuff you're not quite understanding.

In case, once I googled and had doubt, I asked offlist to somebody (I would not tell the name since it is better in this case) but I got some highly arrogant and rough reply and at all I was stuck with the system in the middle of night. I am not saying that I cannot google and read the basic line(s), I would do that, and try that. But in future, when I come back to openSUSE (after some time), I would do in this way only which you are saying.

But let me warn you you're wrong about fedora. I switched from Red Hat to Suse for many reasons, one of the reasons was the way I was treated way back when I started with Linux on the list. I found most Red Hat/Fedora lists to be full of arrogant pompous people. As for Ubuntu. Well maybe that is the way to go, but don't criticize Unity. The owner of Ubuntu will rip into you. Ubuntu forums are actually rather user friendly, but I fear that the fact that you want to be spoon fed any help will run you afoul in any distro.

You have taken it in wrong ways, spoon fed in the sense of "understanding" not "googling"! So I can just "google" and read about the things I am having problems in (that is, when I get time), but I can do that with some sort of websites which don't talk of fully technical and advanced way(s). If I were spoon fed, how could I have created the three partitions - one for root and one for swap and one for /home. I have created some users, files, changed permissions, ls, grep, chmod, top, ps etc...etc.. commands I learned and it is not that which a spoon fed can do.

Time is money in the world today

It was true even earlier and centuries ago.

and you just won't find any one willing or able to sit down and explain to you in detail what's going on.

I agree with you but that much I didn't anticipated, I just wanted some little newbie acceleration, I got also but perhaps I had to read more on google, that I accept I have to.

Many links have be provided to you to get a general understanding of what Linux is and how it works.

Yeah, correct and when proper time comes, I would go through them.

You apparently never took the time to investigate these links.

Till now not, probable because in the office, I can check emails and have to do my work, but I can just manage to emails, in the office at least. I would, probably do that on holiday, unless I have to official go out of city.

If you did that and came back for some more explanations, you're questions would be accepted in a better manor and you would get somewhere, but we just don't have time to walk you through step by step on how to do things.

I would come back with this and would try to do in this way.

Sorry to see you go, but glad you're sticking with Linux, however I fear you probably won't because you're used to being spoon fed from the Windows world, and in the Linux world it just doesn't happen like that. Good luck in your endeavors. B-Y-E.

I already told that I do "google" search! Thanks for saying me best of luck and in the future, whenever, I would get my legs wet, I would definitely come back to this distro (openSUSE), so that I can ask only the questions which have crossed the level that of a beginners so that better ways and help could be achieved. On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 4:56 AM, lynn wrote:

You won't need much support for Ubuntu.

Cool.

Everything you need is already configured.

That's really great.

It's great for lan clients too.

Ah, well.

But for servers I would be nowhere without Yast and this list to get me started.

I don't have to use server (right now) but only the desktop, thanks for confirming this. But when I get my legs wet (as I often say), I would come back, however, it is a future-type of thing. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 11/11/2011 1:00 AM, Linux Tyro wrote:

...

While openSUSE can be very good in all aspects but for support I would rank Fedora and Ubuntu ahead of openSUSE. Thanks for your suggestions. But I am D-O-N-E.

You won't need much support for Ubuntu. Everything you need is already configured. It's great for lan clients too. But for servers I would be nowhere without Yast and this list to get me started. Hasta siempre. L x -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 00:00:52 -0600, Linux Tyro wrote:

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:

...

You seem to be forgetting that the people who answer questions on mailing lists and in forums volunteer their time.

You are taking it wrong ways, since I am not forgetting.

Well, as others said, time is money. It sounds like you're wanting free consulting, then. <shrug>

...

BTW, another place where you will find many beginners using openSUSE is the openSUSE forums at http://forums.opensuse.org. The same caveats apply there, though - don't expect the volunteers to do your homework for you. If something can be found in the documentation or by searching the existing messages (or in the forums, the 'stickies' at the top of some of the forums), you'll receive a somewhat similar reaction to what you received on the mailing list.

Yeah Jim, thaks for the suggestion. But I really at this stage need assistance.

The forums are there to give assistance, but no matter which distro you use, people will expect you to do your homework before asking RTFM-style questions.

but I am D-O-N-E, as if now, would have to switch to some different distro, and by the time, I learn Linux, would switch back to openSUSE.

Ah, so since you feel it's inappropriate for people to expect you to do some basic research before asking questions, you're going to (as they say) "take your ball and go home"?

Thanks for your help. Yes, I do need something to be explained from much basic level, I cannot go google and learn all the technical stuff - consider it my con or pro whatever. Perhaps, I am in other job, that's why.

Just as an example, you asked about Linux encryption. Here are a few answers: http://bit.ly/vzrQuQ http://bit.ly/uvEjOA It's not difficult to do some research ahead of time so you don't come across as asking people to read the documentation to you. Again, I refer you to Eric Raymond's essay.

I wonder why on website is has been declared as the easiest distro for even non-technical community! Yeah, it is excellent (100%) but not easy for non-technical people.

It is for those who are willing to take the time to educate themselves. You'll probably find that for any/all Linux distributions. Whatever you decide, best of luck to you. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Wed, 09 Nov 2011 11:31:40 -0500, Linux Tyro wrote:

It is not that I don't want to do my own research, but I should get the time for that too (yes it is my headache). But I would try to manage that (***time***).

At last, I would just want to say the following which is true for me:

"I used to think (earlier, before this post) that Linux is just a great type of Windows (yes, I am Windows migrant). And yes it ready to use with all GUIs (like openSUSE) and here you get everything working without doing your own research and though Linux is understood to be used better as command line but now a days GUI options are so great that everything - each and every thing you can do using GUI. So, if you are in some other job which is not at all related with computers, you can install the openSUSE, and use it.

Now I think (after this post): Yes Linux is very good but one needs one's own efforts to work and use it easily. If you are from other job, try to spend the time and learn on the Linux box. It needs initiatives and then you can use it very easily."

Yeah, I may be wrong in thinking but I have liked openSUSE - best KDE with best GUI but perhaps I would require time to go through the basics.

You seem to be forgetting that the people who answer questions on mailing lists and in forums volunteer their time. Take a few minutes and read the excellent tutorial written by Eric Raymond entitled "How to ask questions the smart way", located at http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html You will go much further if you do your homework ahead of time. We're not here to read the manual to you, nor are we here to use Google for you. BTW, another place where you will find many beginners using openSUSE is the openSUSE forums at http://forums.opensuse.org. The same caveats apply there, though - don't expect the volunteers to do your homework for you. If something can be found in the documentation or by searching the existing messages (or in the forums, the 'stickies' at the top of some of the forums), you'll receive a somewhat similar reaction to what you received on the mailing list. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 10:06:30AM -0500, Anton Aylward wrote: [ 8< ]

If you use this list as first resource without taking any initiative two things will happen.

1. You won't learn for yourself. 2. People will become fed up with you asking questions that a little bit of initiative on your part (RTFM/google) could have answered.

3. People might *ponk* you. Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2011-11-09 at 09:20 -0500, Linux Tyro wrote:

Yes but then why these mailing lists are for? I am a newbie, I don't have the time to learn all the things but I have to implement the things.

Then, we have the time to write a long answer, when that answer is already written where you can find it somewhere else? And when we have already pointed you at documents for you to read? You are askin us to spend up our time writting again what it is already written. We are also busy people, and not paid. The list is for asking precise questions, like when you read a document and do not understand it and ask for clarification. Or when you are configuring something, it doesn't work, and you ask us if we can see the fault that you do not see. Concrete, precise questions. Do not ask us to write the book. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk665hUACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XiRwCfcg7b/0sgLRLIVaCSneid1KoA ahAAmwbBOVW+VPwUx3roDPgCH434YErG =gFDE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org