On 28/01/06, Maged Hussein wrote:

3- Make a vmware image of OpenSUSE with packages relevant to audience. There is some packages that essential to Windows user but I don't know what is the obligation if I included them within the vmware image namely: - RealPlayer - Acrobat Reader - Flash - Java - All dependednt parts on them.

The real issue here is with the companies who make those programs. You'd have to get permission to distribute from Real, Adobe, Sun, Macromedia and so on. That's probably ranging from hard to impossible. -- Paul

Am Sat, 28. January 2006 16:01 schrieb Maged Hussein:
> Hi list,
>
> I'm currently thinking of a way to make OpenSUSE available to much more
> audience (specially windows users).
> My target is to attract more users and developers to Linux platform (making
> it easy for them to make the switch).
> Upon testing many distros, I found that SUSE has the most windows like
> experience to Windows users PLUS a very intuitive admin interface for linux
> power users.
>
> The easiest way is  to distribute it within a Computer magazine that all PC
> users can access.
>
> I thought of three approached to accompish this tasks (given that I have
> only one CD to include):
>
> 1- One CD with just necessary packages to start with (SLICK does a good job
> in this)
> [This way will bring many hassles to windows user [installation with
> windows- hardware not detected - modems support,...etc]
>
> 2- Make a live CD for OpenSUSE
> [I found only a DVD version of it + I Found that you can use it as a READ
> ONLY [not like debizn based Live CDs]]
You may know that from time to time most every Linux publication offers live 
cd's as install cd's. So did German Linux Magazin, e.g. 2/06 OpenSchool 
Server (based on NOvell Enterprise Server9) and Linux Magazin Special 
Edition, 01/2006, Novell Enterprise Server 9.
So often this is done py a publisher not by the distributions itself. And I 
would bet that they will do so for openSESE 10.1.

> 3- Make a vmware image of OpenSUSE with packages relevant to audience.
> [This approach will eliminate HW support, modem support [vmware can use
> NATing to hadle this], installation support]
> There is some packages that essential to Windows user but I don't know what
> is the obligation if I included them within the vmware image namely:
> - RealPlayer
> - Acrobat Reader
> - Flash
> - Java
> - All dependednt parts on them.
> Of course one can update from yast repositories once installed but Internet
> Connectivity will not be available to some users.
- Using VMWare will bring a lot more problems you might expect. It is _very_ 
tricky to offer VMWare images for all kinds of Hardware combinations which 
could be found out there in the wild. From a technical point of view I would 
rate this as a unresolvable problem.

- Last but most, I would assume that using VMWare images will bring a bunch of 
legal problems according to the use of VMWare. (If not I would expect that 
there should still be a lot of those 'official' images.)

>
> I am looking for your help to make the right path.

Hhm, may be there is another solution which might be discussed:

FreeNX / NoMachine Account(s)

Like http://cosmopod.com/ it might be an idea to offer FreeNX Accounts on an 
openSUSE machine (mostly for Windows Users who don't want or fear an 
installation or live system). So you 'only' need to have a FreeNX Client for 
Windows for this.
I haven't seen any distribution yet which offers this service. 

I said 'Only' (quoted  for beeing a bit ironicall) because it will need a real 
big iron server for this but on the long run it might be cheaper than 
producing Live CD's again and again for every new openSUSE Version.

But contrary to cosmopod.com it should only offer temporary accounts no long 
time accounts. This because limitating the number of accounts to handle and 
to lower the needed hardware recources.

Bye,
Thomas

Thanks Thomas,
See below for my comments
On 1/28/06, email.listen@googlemail.com  wrote:
>
> Am Sat, 28. January 2006 16:01 schrieb Maged Hussein:
> > Hi list,
> >
> > I'm currently thinking of a way to make OpenSUSE available to much more
> > audience (specially windows users).
> > My target is to attract more users and developers to Linux platform
> (making
> > it easy for them to make the switch).
> > Upon testing many distros, I found that SUSE has the most windows like
> > experience to Windows users PLUS a very intuitive admin interface for
> linux
> > power users.
> >
> > The easiest way is  to distribute it within a Computer magazine that all
> PC
> > users can access.
> >
> > I thought of three approached to accompish this tasks (given that I have
> > only one CD to include):
> >
> > 1- One CD with just necessary packages to start with (SLICK does a good
> job
> > in this)
> > [This way will bring many hassles to windows user [installation with
> > windows- hardware not detected - modems support,...etc]
> >
> > 2- Make a live CD for OpenSUSE
> > [I found only a DVD version of it + I Found that you can use it as a
> READ
> > ONLY [not like debizn based Live CDs]]
> You may know that from time to time most every Linux publication offers
> live
> cd's as install cd's. So did German Linux Magazin, e.g. 2/06 OpenSchool
> Server (based on NOvell Enterprise Server9) and Linux Magazin Special
> Edition, 01/2006, Novell Enterprise Server 9.
> So often this is done py a publisher not by the distributions itself. And
> I
> would bet that they will do so for openSESE 10.1.


Do you have links to these publications ?
Do I need Novell approval (tademarks,logos ...etc) for building such a cd?
I have already done the same with Red Hat 2 years ago and I have to cahnge
alot of packages to aviod violations with Red Hat EULA.
A question also came to mind is updates , Does the above publications fit
well with YOU or you have to maintain it yourself ( a lot of pain here).

> 3- Make a vmware image of OpenSUSE with packages relevant to audience.
> > [This approach will eliminate HW support, modem support [vmware can use
> > NATing to hadle this], installation support]
> > There is some packages that essential to Windows user but I don't know
> what
> > is the obligation if I included them within the vmware image namely:
> > - RealPlayer
> > - Acrobat Reader
> > - Flash
> > - Java
> > - All dependednt parts on them.
> > Of course one can update from yast repositories once installed but
> Internet
> > Connectivity will not be available to some users.
> - Using VMWare will bring a lot more problems you might expect. It is
> _very_
> tricky to offer VMWare images for all kinds of Hardware combinations which
> could be found out there in the wild. From a technical point of view I
> would
> rate this as a unresolvable problem.
>
> - Last but most, I would assume that using VMWare images will bring a
> bunch of
> legal problems according to the use of VMWare. (If not I would expect that
> there should still be a lot of those 'official' images.)


We have to compromise here, If we go to linux native installations , alot of
support needed to sustain such traffic.
Think of a windows user who needs a win app, he will have to restart to go
back to windows to access it and probably will never go back to Linux
(Vmware helps make switching between linux and windows very easy).
You are right that VMWARE player might have issues with some hardware but
helping this category would be easy (LUG, VMWARE Knowledgebase) even
providing a native SUSE Cds will be valuable to them.

Regarding legalities of vmware images, I don't know about distributing the
images itself but for the player  check
http://www.vmware.com/download/eula/player_distribution.html

>
> > I am looking for your help to make the right path.
>
> Hhm, may be there is another solution which might be discussed:
>
> FreeNX / NoMachine Account(s)
>
> Like http://cosmopod.com/ it might be an idea to offer FreeNX Accounts on
> an
> openSUSE machine (mostly for Windows Users who don't want or fear an
> installation or live system). So you 'only' need to have a FreeNX Client
> for
> Windows for this.
> I haven't seen any distribution yet which offers this service.


It is a great idea to consider , we need to see its prerequists.

I said 'Only' (quoted  for beeing a bit ironicall) because it will need a
> real
> big iron server for this but on the long run it might be cheaper than
> producing Live CD's again and again for every new openSUSE Version.
>
> But contrary to cosmopod.com it should only offer temporary accounts no
> long
> time accounts. This because limitating the number of accounts to handle
> and
> to lower the needed hardware recources.
>
> Bye,
> Thomas
>
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>


--
Regards,
Maged Hussein

On 1/28/06, Shriramana Sharma wrote:

Saturday, 28 January 2006 21:44 samaye, Maged Hussein alekhiit:

...

Anyoune tried this version ? I assume that openoffice is not ther (anyone has the full package selection for this one )

I have. It's quite nice. And no OOo, though KOffice 1.42 is there.

I am only wondering how to access my actual SUSE installations partitions from this intra-Windows SUSE... Must I add them to the virtual SUSE fstab?

I dunno if SAMBA is included but if it is there you can configure samba and export you SUSE partitions and access it from windows like you access any Network share. I think also that VMWARE has a tool that enable you to access and mount their images But I never tries it ( I dunno if it supports linux file systems in windows ). --

Penguin #395953 resides at http://samvit.org subsisting on SUSE Linux 10.0 with KDE 3.5

--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

-- Regards, Maged Hussein

Shriramana Sharma wrote:

Saturday, 28 January 2006 20:31 samaye, Maged Hussein alekhiit:

...

Make a vmware image of OpenSUSE with packages relevant to audience.

Already done -- http://developer.kde.org/~binner/vmware/

better than Son... :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net Quelques images: http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html

Saturday, 28 January 2006 23:16 samaye, Maged Hussein alekhiit:

I dunno  if SAMBA is included but if it is there you can configure samba and export you SUSE partitions and access it from windows like you access any Network share.

Actually the problem is the reverse. Within the virtual SUSE I am not able to access my Windows or real SUSE partitions. -- Penguin #395953 resides at http://samvit.org subsisting on SUSE Linux 10.0 with KDE 3.5

On 01/29/2006 03:06 AM Shriramana Sharma wrote:

Actually the problem is the reverse. Within the virtual SUSE I am not able to access my Windows or real SUSE partitions.

Adn you wont be able to, unless you -export them via samba or - use VMWares Host-Only-Networking thing, which I never tried. But VMWare cant access your partitions "directly". Unless you use this HOST-ONLY-thing. OJ -- "Oh, you may not think I'm pretty, But don't judge on what you see, I'll eat myself if you can find A smarter hat than me." (The Sorting Hat in Harry Potter I)

Monday, 30 January 2006 18:43 samaye, Corne Beerse alekhiit:

For your information, VMWare is there to remove your hardware depenency. VMware offers their own virtual hardware and they provide upwards compatibility. Which is relative easy in a software environment. A VMWare guest always gets the same type of hardware, regardless on what physical hardware it runs.

Apparently this is why I do not see my hard disk partitions when I run the VMWare virtual SUSE. Is there any work around? -- Penguin #395953 resides at http://samvit.org subsisting on SUSE Linux 10.0 with KDE 3.5

Monday, 30 January 2006 18:48 samaye, Johannes Kastl alekhiit:

-export them via samba

Does this mean I have to install Samba on Windows? -- Penguin #395953 resides at http://samvit.org subsisting on SUSE Linux 10.0 with KDE 3.5

On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 19:12 +0530, Shriramana Sharma wrote:

Monday, 30 January 2006 18:43 samaye, Corne Beerse alekhiit:

...

For your information, VMWare is there to remove your hardware depenency. VMware offers their own virtual hardware and they provide upwards compatibility. Which is relative easy in a software environment. A VMWare guest always gets the same type of hardware, regardless on what physical hardware it runs.

Apparently this is why I do not see my hard disk partitions when I run the VMWare virtual SUSE. Is there any work around?

Work around for what? VMware is a virtual (fake, make believe, phoney) machine that is completely separate from the "real" hardware VMware runs on. Do you have another PC at home? And can you see the hardware of the first PC from the second PC? Since the "host" PC is running and using the hardware, as far as partitions go, you cannot mount them using in VMware as well. Two PC's cannot mount and use the same partition at the same time. Therefore there is nothing to work around except your logic. Also this would be best asked on the suse-linux-e list. This list is for problems resulting from testing the beta/alpha versions of opensuse. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998

Shriramana, On Monday 30 January 2006 05:42, Shriramana Sharma wrote:

Monday, 30 January 2006 18:43 samaye, Corne Beerse alekhiit:

...

For your information, VMWare is there to remove your hardware depenency. VMware offers their own virtual hardware and they provide upwards compatibility. Which is relative easy in a software environment. A VMWare guest always gets the same type of hardware, regardless on what physical hardware it runs.

Apparently this is why I do not see my hard disk partitions when I run the VMWare virtual SUSE. Is there any work around?

You can configure physical drive access in VMware, but beware the issues others have brought up. It's not a means of inter-OS communication or file sharing, since if two OS's with access to the same physical drives both mount them as file systems concurrently, they'll each be blind to the other's modifications to the disk contents. It might work if they both mount the volumes read-only (I don't even know if Windows has a concept of a read-only mount for read/write media). I do use physical drives for my Windows-under-Linux VMware, because I don't want to sustain the performance cost of virtualizing the mass storage. Randall Schulz

Randall R Schulz wrote:

You can configure physical drive access in VMware, but beware the issues others have brought up. It's not a means of inter-OS communication or file sharing, since if two OS's with access to the same physical drives both mount them as file systems concurrently, they'll each be blind to the other's modifications to the disk contents.

At least on a FAT partition Windows looks for changes with every access. The problem is, if both systems access the file system _at the same time_. This will most probably end in disaster. How a vmware Linux would behave on a linux host, with async mount, I never tried. Also an NTFS-partition could behave worse, I neither checked this one. Ciao Siegbert

On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 21:14 +0530, Shriramana Sharma wrote:

Monday, 30 January 2006 20:22 samaye, Kenneth Schneider alekhiit:

...

Two PC's cannot mount and use the same partition at the same time. Therefore there is nothing to work around except your logic.

Hey hey, don't get angry. How should I know the internals of VMWare? I boot to Windows very rarely nowadays. You expect me to know the workings of a Windows application? (Yes I am aware that VMWare is available for Linux too.)

...

Also this would be best asked on the suse-linux-e list.

I did not start the thread. I chanced upon it and it seemed to me that Corne Beerse knew something about VMWare so I could ask him. I now realize I should have written to him offlist.

I did not mean for my answer to seem so harsh. As you point out you did not start this thread and since your question did not relate to the subject perhaps a new thread should have been started. And yes you can mount an existing partition (not virtual) in a VMware virtual machine but I would not recommend doing so to a partition already mounted by the host system. If you are referring to MS windows style shares you can create shares in linux (using samba) to share with your windows machines and vice-versa. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998