[S.u.S.E. Linux] why fvwm2 anyway ??
Get a *real* Windowmanager... like KDE (if you're a newbie), Enlightenment (for fun) or WindowMaker (for productivity) Why is that fvwm2 still with Linux ? It's ugly, it's nasty to configure, it's buggy (yep... or am I the only one whose mouse sometimes isn't able to pop any menues any more)... Even AfterStep is a lot better and more stable... (although you can delete it from your HD too, now... if you want some NeXT, try WindowMaker) - [ KDE ] isn't bad, especially for people who come from Windows... it's easier to get used to, and has some very nice features (such as KDM - really nice), but it's still buggy :-( - [ Enlightenment ] is *the* WindowManager... that's the one you have to show Windows users who think that X-Window sucks, but I agree, it's very buggy too, and a little heavy (although Rasterman and Mandrake are totally re-writing it... in C++ I think :-))) should be out soon) - and it's even with S.u.S.E. 5.2 !!!! (they really should have put Eterm and some themes, too, but you can download all that) - [ WindowMaker ] (I use the new 0.14.1) is excellent: it's NeXT-ish, beautiful, very easily configurable, done in C++ (based on GNUstep), very few bugs, very fast and light... magnificent, really !!! it's a pity it isn't in S.u.S.E. 5.2, but I'm sure they'll put it in 6.0 and, anyway, it's easy to install... just follow the instructions... it took me less than 5 minutes (including compilation :)) Pascal /nick SuSE52 on #linux (IRCnet) root on www.student.prov-liege.be "Linux is obsolete" A. Tanenbaum -----Original Message----- From: Steven Udell <hettar@teleport.com> To: suse-linux-e@suse.com <suse-linux-e@suse.com> Date: mardi 12 mai 1998 10:06 Subject: [S.u.S.E. Linux] Starting Fvwm2 Errors
Hi SuSE,
I am wonder why I get this error (always) when starting fvwm2
X Error of failed request: BadDrawable (invalid Pixmap or Window parameter) Major opcode of failed request: 62 (X_CopyArea) Resource id in failed request: 0x3400002 Serial number of failed request: 164 Current serial number in output stream: 164 X Error of failed request: BadWindow (invalid Window parameter) Major opcode of failed request: 4 (X_DestroyWindow) Resource id in failed request: 0x300000f Serial number of failed request: 286 Current serial number in output stream: 289
Now I have had these error all along, even in SuSE 5.0 5.1 and now 5.2, I think it's time to clean them up This is displayed in the Xmessages window of fvwm2 So how can I fix them?
-- Steven Udell Wayfarers hettar@teleport.com for truth love sudell@teleport.com and courage <A HREF="http://www.teleport.com/~hettar"><A HREF="http://www.teleport.com/~hettar</A">http://www.teleport.com/~hettar</A</A>> -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
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On 12-May-98 Pascal Bleser wrote:
Get a *real* Windowmanager... like KDE (if you're a newbie), Enlightenment (for fun) or WindowMaker (for productivity)
- [ WindowMaker ] (I use the new 0.14.1) is excellent: it's NeXT-ish, beautiful, very easily configurable, done in C++ (based on GNUstep), very few bugs, very fast and light... magnificent, really !!! it's a pity it isn't in S.u.S.E. 5.2, but I'm sure they'll put it in 6.0 and, anyway, it's easy to install... just follow the instructions... it took me less than 5 minutes (including compilation :))
You make it sound very interesting! ... but where (and under what archive filename) can it be found? The only "windowmanager" I can locate is for FreeBSD/NetBSD and, as of May 1998, is at version 0.6. With thanks, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Date: 12-May-98 Time: 11:23:39 -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
(Ted Harding) wrote:
On 12-May-98 Pascal Bleser wrote:
Get a *real* Windowmanager... like KDE (if you're a newbie), Enlightenment (for fun) or WindowMaker (for productivity)
Na Get BLACKBOX wm <A HREF="http://linux.wiw.org/blackbox"><A HREF="http://linux.wiw.org/blackbox</A">http://linux.wiw.org/blackbox</A</A>> KDE is for wimps <g> ok too easy to set up Enlightment is for wide eye people (eye candy) Windowmaker is for setting your icons everytime you use it fvwm2 is for boring people who like stability Afterstep if for people hanging out on the Warf. (gone fishing?) fvwm95 is utter crap :P owlm is wierd tons more? (A person I know has over 16 different wms!) Blackbox just rules :P (hey I am on the beta tester list) -- Steven Udell Wayfarers hettar@teleport.com for truth love sudell@teleport.com and courage <A HREF="http://www.teleport.com/~hettar"><A HREF="http://www.teleport.com/~hettar</A">http://www.teleport.com/~hettar</A</A>> -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
My 2 pence on the windowmanager debate: -KDE: Pluses: Helpful in de-stressing the learning curve for Win95 converts. Nice graphics in KFM, w/ useful browser-like interface (back/forward buttons, etc). Minuses: Easy for newbies to become overly dependant on KFM for routine sysadmin tasks that are better performed with the command-line (or w/ mc, etc.) Greatly in need of a clickable "kill" option on to get rid of errant processes (as in WindowMaker). Grey color scheme and icons monotonous. Good for: Web surfing & some administrative tasks. - WindowMaker: Pluses: Superb & inventive color scheme; quick & light. Minuses: Workspace fiend (WM 14.1) useful, but right/left buttons too small for ease of use. Would prefer one-click invocation of apps from the dock, rather than old Windows-style double click. Good for: Grooving with your favorite apps. -Enlightenment Pluses: Eye candy. Minuses: Crashy (at this point); resource-intensive; few apps relative to other WMs. Would be a great visual environment for graphical work (w/ Gimp, etc.), but too memory intensive for this. Good for: Late night visual fixes. Others? This is a cool and useful thread; let's keep it alive. Glenn Sullivan -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
Get a *real* Windowmanager... like KDE (if you're a newbie), Enlightenment (for fun) or WindowMaker (for productivity)
Why is that fvwm2 still with Linux ?
It's small. It's stable. It's fast. It's effective. It's configurable. It offers pretty much every feature anyone wanted out of a window manager until fairly recently. (ie. no funky swallowing, drag'n'drop, superpretty graphics, etc.) Hm. You know, this list of qualities closely resembles that of linux. Imagine that. Tangents:
- [ KDE ] isn't bad, especially for people who come from Windows... it's
This is not a window manager.
- [ Enlightenment ] is *the* WindowManager... that's the one you have to
I don't see the point of E. Does it offer any functionality besides just placing windows on a pretty (some think) bacground?
- [ WindowMaker ] (I use the new 0.14.1) is excellent: it's NeXT-ish,
Haven't tried it yet. I'm still using Astep 1.0. The simple truth is programs that make me edit dotfiles rarely get configured. I wish unix developers would realize this. :( -josh -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
Get a *real* Windowmanager... like KDE (if you're a newbie), Enlightenment (for fun) or WindowMaker (for productivity)
Why is that fvwm2 still with Linux ? It's ugly, it's nasty to configure, it's buggy (yep... or am I the only one whose mouse sometimes isn't able to pop any menues any more)... Even AfterStep is a lot better and more stable... (although you can delete it from your HD too, now... if you want some NeXT, try WindowMaker)
I like fvwm2 because it is fast and stable. I have a lower end machine, which means that Enlightenment runs terrible (I'm not for eye candy anyway), and I thought KDE was too much like Win95. I have used and like WindowMaker, it is fast and stable, but, when you have to edit the config files manually, it is much, much worse then fvwm2. And the bug you have with the mouse not popping menus is not a fvwm2 bug as much as a (gasp) SuSEwm bug. I wrote a fvwm2rc file from scratch (yes, painful) and combined it with some of the things I liked from the fvwm2rc that SuSEwm spit out, and *presto* problem solved. I'll send it to anyone if you are interested . . . - mikeh -- ============================================================================== || Mike Hostetler || || <A HREF="http://www.binary.net/thehaas"><A HREF="http://www.binary.net/thehaas</A">http://www.binary.net/thehaas</A</A>> || || email1: mhostetl@cse.unl.edu || || email2: thehaas@binary.net || ============================================================================== || `When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows", people just || || stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, || || *for free*".' - Linus Torvalds || ============================================================================== -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
Jeesh! I'm still using fvwm. Maybe I need to get motivated and go to fvwm2? I like fvwm because of the ease of configuration and low resource drain. I have not seen a WM that proves to be less resource (RAM, swap space, hard disk space) intensive than fvwm. Maybe Blackbox would? I agree with what some have said about KDE. It's too Microslothish. Don't be a sloth supporter. Be creative with all the tools Linux has to offer. -N
From: thehaas@ravine.binary.net (Mike Hostetler) Subject: Re: [S.u.S.E. Linux] why fvwm2 anyway ?? To: suse-linux-e@suse.com Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 10:36:03 -0500 (CDT) Reply-to: suse-linux-e@suse.com
Get a *real* Windowmanager... like KDE (if you're a newbie), Enlightenment (for fun) or WindowMaker (for productivity)
Why is that fvwm2 still with Linux ? It's ugly, it's nasty to configure, it's buggy (yep... or am I the only one whose mouse sometimes isn't able to pop any menues any more)... Even AfterStep is a lot better and more stable... (although you can delete it from your HD too, now... if you want some NeXT, try WindowMaker)
I like fvwm2 because it is fast and stable. I have a lower end machine, which means that Enlightenment runs terrible (I'm not for eye candy anyway), and I thought KDE was too much like Win95. I have used and like WindowMaker, it is fast and stable, but, when you have to edit the config files manually, it is much, much worse then fvwm2.
And the bug you have with the mouse not popping menus is not a fvwm2 bug as much as a (gasp) SuSEwm bug. I wrote a fvwm2rc file from scratch (yes, painful) and combined it with some of the things I liked from the fvwm2rc that SuSEwm spit out, and *presto* problem solved. I'll send it to anyone if you are interested . . .
- mikeh
--
============================================================================== || Mike Hostetler || || <A HREF="http://www.binary.net/thehaas"><A HREF="http://www.binary.net/thehaas</A">http://www.binary.net/thehaas</A</A>> || || email1: mhostetl@cse.unl.edu || || email2: thehaas@binary.net || ============================================================================== || `When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows", people just || || stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, || || *for free*".' - Linus Torvalds || ==============================================================================
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I like fvwm because of the ease of configuration and low resource drain. I have not seen a WM that proves to be less resource (RAM, swap space, hard disk space) intensive than fvwm. Maybe Blackbox would?
I have found fvwm2 to be even less of a resource drain then fvwm1. The rc file is different, though. - mikeh -- ============================================================================== || Mike Hostetler || || <A HREF="http://www.binary.net/thehaas"><A HREF="http://www.binary.net/thehaas</A">http://www.binary.net/thehaas</A</A>> || || email1: mhostetl@cse.unl.edu || || email2: thehaas@binary.net || ============================================================================== || `When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows", people just || || stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, || || *for free*".' - Linus Torvalds || ============================================================================== -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
This is from a p200mmx with 64mbs ram running only an xterm running top: Blackbox 1.4%memory usage Icewm 1.5% Afterstep 1.5% fvwm2 1.8% WindowMaker 2.6% Enlightenment 8.3% kde 26.6% These numbers really don't mean a thing, I was just curious after reading this thread all day long. I use WindowMaker as my primary window manager, and I believe the memory usage it displayed was a little high because of excessive pixmap usage on my part. E has never claimed to not eat memory or cpu, and X used more of both while it was running, but I was a little shocked by how much kde used. In all fairness, kde is a collection of applications running simultaneously and not a single app like most window managers. I use Icewm as root, and I would have to say that it "feels" faster than any of the others, but the difference between how it runs vs. fvwm2, afterstep, or WindowMaker is splitting hairs. Mike Hostetler wrote:
I like fvwm because of the ease of configuration and low resource drain. I have not seen a WM that proves to be less resource (RAM, swap space, hard disk space) intensive than fvwm. Maybe Blackbox would?
I have found fvwm2 to be even less of a resource drain then fvwm1. The rc file is different, though.
- mikeh
--
============================================================================== || Mike Hostetler || || <A HREF="http://www.binary.net/thehaas"><A HREF="http://www.binary.net/thehaas</A">http://www.binary.net/thehaas</A</A>> || || email1: mhostetl@cse.unl.edu || || email2: thehaas@binary.net || ============================================================================== || `When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows", people just || || stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, || || *for free*".' - Linus Torvalds || ==============================================================================
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Pascal Bleser wrote:
Get a *real* Windowmanager... like KDE (if you're a newbie), Enlightenment (for fun) or WindowMaker (for productivity.
The "my windowmanager is better than yours" argument is just as counter-productive as distribution wars. Linux window managers are freely available, download a dozen and use the one you like best. I have opinions, but they're just that, my opinions. A window manager is a very subjective thing. I'm not going to lose any sleep because someone out there chooses to use a window manager that I think sucks. Just my $.02
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCS d--- s++:++ a32 c++ UL++ P+ L++>+++ E--- W+>++ N- o-- K- w O? M-- V- PS+ PE+ Y-- PGP- t+ 5+ X+ R tv+ b++ DI+ D+++ G e h+ r* y+ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
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Michael, Are you saying you don't like Slackware? Just kidding. -N
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 11:31:33 -0500 From: Michael Lankton <satan@nfinity.com> To: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [S.u.S.E. Linux] why fvwm2 anyway ?? Reply-to: suse-linux-e@suse.com
Pascal Bleser wrote:
Get a *real* Windowmanager... like KDE (if you're a newbie), Enlightenment (for fun) or WindowMaker (for productivity.
The "my windowmanager is better than yours" argument is just as counter-productive as distribution wars. Linux window managers are freely available, download a dozen and use the one you like best. I have opinions, but they're just that, my opinions. A window manager is a very subjective thing. I'm not going to lose any sleep because someone out there chooses to use a window manager that I think sucks. Just my $.02
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCS d--- s++:++ a32 c++ UL++ P+ L++>+++ E--- W+>++ N- o-- K- w O? M-- V- PS+ PE+ Y-- PGP- t+ 5+ X+ R tv+ b++ DI+ D+++ G e h+ r* y+ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
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At 10:22 12.05.98 +0200, you wrote:
Get a *real* Windowmanager... like KDE (if you're a newbie),
Slow...
Enlightenment (for fun)
Even slower..
or WindowMaker (for productivity)
Haven't tested it yet. How easy is it to configure menues etc for this thing?
- [ KDE ] isn't bad, especially for people who come from Windows... it's easier to get used to, and has some very nice features (such as KDM - really nice), but it's still buggy :-(
That's why they call it a "beta" you see? ;-)
- [ Enlightenment ] is *the* WindowManager... that's the one you have to show Windows users who think that X-Window sucks, but I agree, it's very
Eats a lot of resources... looks cool, I agree. I'll check it again after the rewrite...whenever that is gonna happen ;) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- <A HREF="http://privat.schlund.de/bartmoss/"><A HREF="http://privat.schlund.de/bartmoss/</A">http://privat.schlund.de/bartmoss/</A</A>> ICQ UIN: 3322540 -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
participants (9)
-
hettar＠teleport.com -
jrodman＠skaro.nightcrawler.com -
misc.word.corp＠pobox.com -
netsomni＠fastrans.net -
nils＠work.de -
pbleser＠prov-liege.be -
satan＠nfinity.com -
Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk -
thehaas＠ravine.binary.net