[opensuse] Re: Changing zypper command
Carlos E. R. wrote:
"up" is safe, normally.
An alternative is "zypper patch", which is similar to what "you" does:
patch [options] Install all available needed patches.
If there are patches that affect the package management itself, those will be installed first and you will be asked to run the patch command again.
This command is similar to 'zypper update -t patch'.
It is even safer.
What means "even safer"? I have always wondered what difference are between patches and "normal" software updates. It's probably not the bandwidth, as long as delta rpms are used, so I suspect it's more a kind of policy thing. Btw, I understand the *technical* difference between a patch and a full/delta rpm, no need to explain me that. What I don't know is the policy difference between those two update methods: Do they carry the same amount of updates? Anybody can shed some light on this? Joachim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Joachim Schrod Email: jschrod@acm.org Roedermark, Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, May 07, 2010 at 02:45:06PM +0200, Joachim Schrod wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
"up" is safe, normally.
An alternative is "zypper patch", which is similar to what "you" does:
patch [options] Install all available needed patches.
If there are patches that affect the package management itself, those will be installed first and you will be asked to run the patch command again.
This command is similar to 'zypper update -t patch'.
It is even safer.
What means "even safer"?
I have always wondered what difference are between patches and "normal" software updates. It's probably not the bandwidth, as long as delta rpms are used, so I suspect it's more a kind of policy thing.
Btw, I understand the *technical* difference between a patch and a full/delta rpm, no need to explain me that. What I don't know is the policy difference between those two update methods: Do they carry the same amount of updates?
Anybody can shed some light on this?
A patch is a metadescription of a collection of updated RPMs with specific versions. This patch in there is basically just meta information, the packages are seperate. As only the Update repo has this metadata, no other RPM updates will be installed. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Marcus Meissner writes:
On Fri, May 07, 2010 at 02:45:06PM +0200, Joachim Schrod wrote:
I have always wondered what difference are between patches and "normal" software updates. It's probably not the bandwidth, as long as delta rpms are used, so I suspect it's more a kind of policy thing.
Btw, I understand the *technical* difference between a patch and a full/delta rpm, no need to explain me that. What I don't know is the policy difference between those two update methods: Do they carry the same amount of updates?
A patch is a metadescription of a collection of updated RPMs with specific versions.
This patch in there is basically just meta information, the packages are seperate. As only the Update repo has this metadata, no other RPM updates will be installed.
Very interesting, thanks for the quick response. IIUC, that means that those you use zypper patch to update their systems, don't get updates for their installed packages from OBS. Need to keep that in mind... Now that I reread the 2nd paragraph in http://en.opensuse.org/Zypper/Usage/11.2#Update_Management, it tells that. I didn't recognize that "Update repositories" are really just the openSUSE ones and not other OBS repos that one may use. Shouldn't one emphasize this info more in that paragraph? I would do it; but the page tells "don't edit because it gets moved to the new Wiki". Joachim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Joachim Schrod Email: jschrod@acm.org Roedermark, Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 05/07/2010 03:04 PM, Joachim Schrod wrote:
Marcus Meissner writes:
On Fri, May 07, 2010 at 02:45:06PM +0200, Joachim Schrod wrote:
I have always wondered what difference are between patches and "normal" software updates. It's probably not the bandwidth, as long as delta rpms are used, so I suspect it's more a kind of policy thing.
Btw, I understand the *technical* difference between a patch and a full/delta rpm, no need to explain me that. What I don't know is the policy difference between those two update methods: Do they carry the same amount of updates?
A patch is a metadescription of a collection of updated RPMs with specific versions.
This patch in there is basically just meta information, the packages are seperate. As only the Update repo has this metadata, no other RPM updates will be installed.
Very interesting, thanks for the quick response.
IIUC, that means that those you use zypper patch to update their systems, don't get updates for their installed packages from OBS. Need to keep that in mind...
Now that I reread the 2nd paragraph in http://en.opensuse.org/Zypper/Usage/11.2#Update_Management, it tells that. I didn't recognize that "Update repositories" are really just the openSUSE ones and not other OBS repos that one may use.
Shouldn't one emphasize this info more in that paragraph? I would do it; but the page tells "don't edit because it gets moved to the new Wiki".
Yes, good idea. Please go ahead and add the info (seems the 'being moved' warning is gone now). Also in this version please http://en.opensuse.org/Zypper/Usage/Factory Thanx! -- cheers, jano Ján Kupec YaST team ---------------------------------------------------------(PGP)--- Key ID: 637EE901 Fingerprint: 93B9 C79B 2D20 51C3 800B E09B 8048 46A6 637E E901 ---------------------------------------------------------(IRC)--- Server: irc.freenode.net Nick: jniq Channels: #zypp #yast #suse #susecz ---------------------------------------------------------(EOF)---
On Fri, May 07, 2010 at 02:45:06PM +0200, Joachim Schrod wrote:
I have always wondered what difference are between patches and "normal" software updates. It's probably not the bandwidth, as long as delta rpms are used, so I suspect it's more a kind of policy thing.
A patch is just some mechanism to force a minimal package version. It's like a package with a lot of conflicts. For example, the latest libesmtp patch "patch:libesmtp" more or less contains the equivalent of: Conflicts: libesmtp < 1.0.4-158.2.1 Conflicts: libesmtp-devel < 1.0.4-158.2.1 When you run 'zypper patch', you tell the solver to install the newest version of all patches. As patch:libesmtp contains the conflict, an installed "libesmpt" package with an old version can no longer be kept, thus the update is forced. So, 'zypper up' will install the latest versions if there are no problems. 'zypper patch' will force the update, maybe resulting in solver problems where the user has to choose some a solution. (This has nothing to do with deltarpms, 'zypper up' also uses deltarpms if possible. Deltarpms are just a way of reducing download size.) Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Markus Rex, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Michael Schroeder writes:
On Fri, May 07, 2010 at 02:45:06PM +0200, Joachim Schrod wrote:
I have always wondered what difference are between patches and "normal" software updates. It's probably not the bandwidth, as long as delta rpms are used, so I suspect it's more a kind of policy thing.
A patch is just some mechanism to force a minimal package version. It's like a package with a lot of conflicts. For example, the latest libesmtp patch "patch:libesmtp" more or less contains the equivalent of: Conflicts: libesmtp < 1.0.4-158.2.1 Conflicts: libesmtp-devel < 1.0.4-158.2.1
That I knew.
So, 'zypper up' will install the latest versions if there are no problems. 'zypper patch' will force the update, maybe resulting in solver problems where the user has to choose some a solution.
Now that you tell that, it's clear. Though I wouldn't have realized that consequence of my (technical) knowledge.
(This has nothing to do with deltarpms, 'zypper up' also uses deltarpms if possible. Deltarpms are just a way of reducing download size.)
I knew that as well; that's why I wrote above "it's not the bandwidth", though I could have stated it more concise, if I now reread my post again. My question really was above the technical level: What consequences has it for an admin if he chooses to use zypper patch instead of zypper update? I now see several of them: -- Only openSUSE updates are installed, not from OBS (or other) repos. (Which may be a good or a bad thing, as David's whining about his unwanted MariaDB update shows... ;-)) -- zypper patch might update packages from openSUSE that zypper up doesn't touch owing to solver problems, maybe requiring user action to resolve problems. Very interesting. It seems I should add a "check needed patches" action to my zypper-up-based update process, to check if the 2nd case happens. Joachim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Joachim Schrod Email: jschrod@acm.org Roedermark, Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2010-05-07 15:25, Joachim Schrod wrote:
Michael Schroeder writes:
My question really was above the technical level: What consequences has it for an admin if he chooses to use zypper patch instead of zypper update? I now see several of them:
-- Only openSUSE updates are installed, not from OBS (or other) repos. (Which may be a good or a bad thing, as David's whining about his unwanted MariaDB update shows... ;-))
Well, this is because the OBS maintainers "neglect" to create update patches. They could do.
-- zypper patch might update packages from openSUSE that zypper up doesn't touch owing to solver problems, maybe requiring user action to resolve problems.
And the other way round, too. zypper patch in my system right now does nothing, whereas zypper up wants to update about 40 MB, like openoffice and xine. Now, the problem for me is where are those packages coming from... is the xine coming from packman (good) or from somewhere else (bad)? I can't see that info in the printed output. Maybe it needs a different command line. It is easier for me to fire up YOU, go to selected repos, and tell it to install newer versions if available. It is probably the same as "zypper up", but I can see each one and choose another version or another package, one by one.
Very interesting. It seems I should add a "check needed patches" action to my zypper-up-based update process, to check if the 2nd case happens.
You can do both actions. First run "patch", which will update most of your base system. The run "up", to update those things coming from OBS. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" GM (Elessar)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkvkMHoACgkQU92UU+smfQXrmACaAs930Y7p8kxjBXlSd1AdpGWj 5dMAn2RI0dihi1CweouHeBx7ygGCVOnG =NBAl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (5)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Jano Kupec -
Joachim Schrod -
Marcus Meissner -
Michael Schroeder