On Thursday 10 Jun 2004 20:14, Fred Miller wrote:

On Thursday June 10 2004 9:32 am, cspillis@comcast.net wrote:

[snip]

...

About the only complaint I consider valid is software that require some wierd, out of the way package to install. It took me a good while to determine what final package I needed to krecipe up and running.  Once done though I will say it installed smoothly and runs beautifully.

A valid complaint! There are some others as well, like Gimp NOT providing color matching!!!!! This is not a SUSE problem - but it sure would be nice if they helped get it done!! Linux CAN'T migrate into the Pro. Photo. and high end graphics printing arena until this is done - period! Home users also WON'T be pleased at the less than accurate color printing on the better consumer color printers.

Fred

-- Ronald Reagan 1911 - 2004 An American Patriot who hated Communism and Socialism, never brought shame upon himself, his family, his political offices or abused the trust of the American People. We love you and we wonder when another like you or Theodore Roosevelt will arise again.

Bahhhhhhhh phooey -- Linux user No: 256242 Machine No: 139931 G6NJR Pete also MSA registered "Quinton 11" A Linux Only area Happy bug hunting M$ clan PGN

Fred Miller wrote:

On Thursday June 10 2004 9:32 am, cspillis@comcast.net wrote:

[snip]

...

About the only complaint I consider valid is software that require some wierd, out of the way package to install. It took me a good while to determine what final package I needed to krecipe up and running. Once done though I will say it installed smoothly and runs beautifully.

A valid complaint! There are some others as well, like Gimp NOT providing color matching!!!!! This is not a SUSE problem - but it sure would be nice if they helped get it done!! Linux CAN'T migrate into the Pro. Photo. and high end graphics printing arena until this is done - period! Home users also WON'T be pleased at the less than accurate color printing on the better consumer color printers.

Fred

Your GIMP complaint should be addressed with them and is not, I will repeat this for you, NOT a valid complaint against linux. Do you blame Microsoft that Paint Shop Pro doesn't have all the features of Photoshop or vice versa? No you find a piece of software that does have the feature you require, if none do and you feel the developers will listen to your voice...suggest a feature. Needing an odd package for a compile is nothing like a feature you want, btw....it's not even apples to oranges. In the end I blame myself for not realizing that the package would probably be required, It would be nice to have a list of source packages needed for a compile in the readme but I definitely don't fault the developers for not including it. Corey Spillis

On Friday 11 Jun 2004 00:27, Fred Miller wrote:

On Thursday June 10 2004 6:39 pm, Corey wrote:

[snip]

...

Your GIMP complaint should be addressed with them and is not, I will repeat this for you, NOT a valid complaint against linux.

Yes and no. Color matching could be supported in CUPS, so it doesn't have to be supported in Gimp. It IS a Linux problem!! Linux CAN'T migrate into some business markets until this is done, and it won't do well in some home markets either for the same reason.

...

Do you blame Microsoft that Paint Shop Pro doesn't have all the features of Photoshop or vice versa? No you find a piece of software that does have the feature you require, if none do and you feel the developers will listen to your voice...suggest a feature.

That's been done. MANY want it, but I guess there's no one willing to code it. I don't write code, or I'd done what I could a long time ago. However, as I said, not providing color matching keeps Linux OUT of the Pro. Photographer, photo processing, and high end graphics printing markets, as well as some home users.

...

Needing an odd package for a compile is nothing like a feature you want, btw....it's not even apples to oranges.

Of course. The problem you have, and so do many others, is that there are distros that DON'T care about the Standards set forth by committee. SUSE DOES, but RH and others don't care about them. This causes splintering in Linux, in addition to getting a package not shipped with your distro to run properly or compile properly. MUCH of what was written on Debian, for example, WON'T compile on SUSE or won't easily compile.

...

In the end I blame myself for not realizing that the package would probably be required, It would be nice to have a list of source packages needed for a compile in the readme but I definitely don't fault the developers for not including it.

The point in all this is that MOST 'Bloze users don't have a clue what to do in Linux. Some haven't wanted to know much about their 'puter, and the rest have been "dumbed down" by the use of 'Bloze. 'Bloze users WON'T convert to Linux unless they can EASILY set it up and use it, and Linux isn't to that point yet.

Fred

-- Ronald Reagan 1911 - 2004 An American Patriot who hated Communism and Socialism, never brought shame upon himself, his family, his political offices or abused the trust of the American People. We love you and we wonder when another like you or Theodore Roosevelt will arise again.

fred you´d be better just clearing off outa here and staying with windBlows cus you do nowt but whingw and whimper about Linux is no good for this that and other just do the world a favour and knaff off or sit back and get on with life stop bieng such a whimpering namby pamby for once . -- Linux user No: 256242 Machine No: 139931 G6NJR Pete also MSA registered "Quinton 11" A Linux Only area Happy bug hunting M$ clan PGN

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 06:58:50 +0100 peter Nikolic wrote:

...

fred you´d be better just clearing off outa here and staying with windBlows cus you do nowt but whingw and whimper about Linux is no good for this that and other just do the world a favour and knaff off or sit back and get on with life stop bieng such a whimpering namby pamby for once .

If you had been with the list a little longer I'm sure you'd realise just how wrong you are about Fred, as well as how offensive your usual style and tone are for us. Terence

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 07:58:37 +0100 peter Nikolic wrote:

...

pharrrrrrrrrrrppppppppppppppppp. --

There really was no need to reinfirce my opinion of you! Terence

On Friday 11 June 2004 06:58, peter Nikolic wrote:

On Friday 11 Jun 2004 00:27, Fred Miller wrote:

...

On Thursday June 10 2004 6:39 pm, Corey wrote:

[snip]

...

Your GIMP complaint should be addressed with them and is not, I will repeat this for you, NOT a valid complaint against linux.

Yes and no. Color matching could be supported in CUPS, so it doesn't have to be supported in Gimp. It IS a Linux problem!! Linux CAN'T migrate into some business markets until this is done, and it won't do well in some home markets either for the same reason.

...

Do you blame Microsoft that Paint Shop Pro doesn't have all the features of Photoshop or vice versa? No you find a piece of software that does have the feature you require, if none do and you feel the developers will listen to your voice...suggest a feature.

That's been done. MANY want it, but I guess there's no one willing to code it. I don't write code, or I'd done what I could a long time ago. However, as I said, not providing color matching keeps Linux OUT of the Pro. Photographer, photo processing, and high end graphics printing markets, as well as some home users.

...

Needing an odd package for a compile is nothing like a feature you want, btw....it's not even apples to oranges.

Of course. The problem you have, and so do many others, is that there are distros that DON'T care about the Standards set forth by committee. SUSE DOES, but RH and others don't care about them. This causes splintering in Linux, in addition to getting a package not shipped with your distro to run properly or compile properly. MUCH of what was written on Debian, for example, WON'T compile on SUSE or won't easily compile.

...

In the end I blame myself for not realizing that the package would probably be required, It would be nice to have a list of source packages needed for a compile in the readme but I definitely don't fault the developers for not including it.

The point in all this is that MOST 'Bloze users don't have a clue what to do in Linux. Some haven't wanted to know much about their 'puter, and the rest have been "dumbed down" by the use of 'Bloze. 'Bloze users WON'T convert to Linux unless they can EASILY set it up and use it, and Linux isn't to that point yet.

Fred

-- Ronald Reagan 1911 - 2004 An American Patriot who hated Communism and Socialism, never brought shame upon himself, his family, his political offices or abused the trust of the American People. We love you and we wonder when another like you or Theodore Roosevelt will arise again.

fred you´d be better just clearing off outa here and staying with windBlows cus you do nowt but whingw and whimper about Linux is no good for this that and other just do the world a favour and knaff off or sit back and get on with life stop bieng such a whimpering namby pamby for once .

Peter, stop the insulting language will you? Fred has contributed a great deal to this list over many years. If you've anything helpful to say, say it without ad hominem sniping.

-- Linux user No: 256242 Machine No: 139931 G6NJR Pete also MSA registered "Quinton 11" A Linux Only area Happy bug hunting M$ clan PGN

-- Fergus Wilde Chetham's Library Long Millgate Manchester M3 1SB Tel: +44 161 834 7961 Fax: +44 161 839 5797 http://www.chethams.org.uk

On Saturday 12 June 2004 15.25, Örn Hansen wrote:

Let me tell you a "success story" about Linux here, I've got a 64bit machine, running at 2GHz, and when I start KDE Mail, to read my mail ... I can't use the machines desktop. The desktop litterally freezes, reading my email

DMA trouble? <snip>

Oh yes, I can go and "renice" the jobs, and no I won't ... because by modifying the rc files, I end up with an incompatible and un-updatable machine. <snip> The old "hard cases" like myself, who want to be able to "have a finger in" how things are done, and be able to manipulate things [...]

Comments are superfluous :)

On Saturday 12 June 2004 15:25, Örn Hansen wrote:

Let me tell you a "success story" about Linux here, I've got a 64bit machine, running at 2GHz, and when I start KDE Mail, to read my mail ... I can't use the machines desktop. The desktop litterally freezes, reading my email ... what a joke. Of course, there's a "virus scanner" going through

The virus scanner has nothing to do with it. I get the same problem. I use fetchmail and procmail to get my mail, push it through spamassassin and clam, and sort it into my various filters. So by the time KMail start, the mail is already in the correct places, it only has to read it off the disc. But as soon as I click on the KMail icon, I can do nothing else until KMail is open (which takes about 5 seconds on my setup). I have this problem both at home (AthlonXP 2ghz, 384mb ram, Gigabyte board with VIA chipset) and at work (either an P-III 1ghz, 384mb ram, Gigabyte board with Intel chipset, or a P4 2.4ghz, 512mb ram, Intel board). In all three cases DMA is working just peachy. OS is SUSE 9.1 Pro with all YOU patches applied and nothing else upgraded/changed except gaim from ULB and MPlayer added. -- Kind regards Hans du Plooy Newington Consulting Services hansdp at newingtoncs dot co dot za

On Saturday 12 June 2004 07:33, Hans du Plooy wrote:

But as soon as I click on the KMail icon, I can do nothing else until KMail is open (which takes about 5 seconds on my setup). I have this problem both at home (AthlonXP 2ghz, 384mb ram, Gigabyte board with VIA chipset) and at work (either an P-III 1ghz, 384mb ram, Gigabyte board with Intel chipset, or a P4 2.4ghz, 512mb ram, Intel board). In all three cases DMA is working just peachy. OS is SUSE 9.1 Pro with all YOU patches applied and nothing else upgraded/changed except gaim from ULB and MPlayer added.

-- Kind regards Hans du Plooy

Hans: Another data point... I have a much less capable machine than yours and my Kmail loads in 3 seconds and the destop is still responsive while it loads, as I can click other icons and switch desktops before Kmail finishes loading. Mine is only a 1.2ghz Celeron. One difference is I have 512meg memory whereas two out of your 3 machines have 384. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen