Re: [SLE] Disgruntled Customer
Ron Heron wrote:
Hello, I have been using SuSE since 6.0. I
to 6.2, and then 6.4. It seems to me, though,
upgraded that
getting the system usable, and maintaining current software is becoming more and more difficult with SuSE. Maybe it is just me, but I have noticed
I cannot agree. Personal observation. I had fewer problems on older releases.
numerous postings where people have MAJOR problems using SuSE upgrades and patches, or basic Linux
This is a ridiculous observation. Who else would post anything here?! This mailing list is for problems and their solutions. I was specifically addressing upgrades. Problems are
Michael, you obviously didn't take this mail for what
it was intended. Please read my comments to yours. I
was looking for positive feedback.
--- Michael Hasenstein
upgrades on a SuSE-installed system. Here are my examples:
1) Upgraded to Kernel 2.2.16, and the system was unusable. Why can't I upgrade to a new kernel
a) That is hardly a SuSE problem if you choose to upgrade one of hte major components without knowing what you're doing.
I have had no problems working with kernels on past SuSE distros, or on other distros. Thanks, but I do know what I am doing.
b) Correct, the stock 2.2.16 is next to unusable. This is why the SuSE 2.2.16 is a 2.2.16 + several MB of patches, for both stability and features.
Where is the SuSE 2.2.16?
downloaded from the internet? Every time (5 times now) I tried to put in a new kernel on a SuSE distro, it failed miserably. But, I was able to upgrade other Linux systems at work (RH and Debian) I had to fall back to the SuSE kernel. Is not linux linux?
It is, and I never had problems. Of course, one has to know what one is doing.
:)
2) Installed "Almost Everything" and Almost nothing works! Fresh, out of the box, ran an Almost Everything install on my test box, just for fun. Well, I was utterly amazed at how many things just do not work!. I try to open up Kgrabber, and it tells me I don't have this installed, or that installed, so it cannot function, and the program is just taking up space. Why would SuSE package and install software that can't work?
??? Thanks for the detailed bug report.
Again, a general statement. I will post details when I start squishing the problems. But, to answer the sarcasm, why didn't SuSE include mpg123 if there are at least three packages that require it?
3) Decided to upgrade to XFree86 4.0. I downloaded the software from SuSE, and followed SuSE instructions EXACTLY, and it absolutely would not work. After several hours, I ftp'd via command line to XFree86.org, downloaded the precompiled binaries, followed THEIR instructions, and it worked perfectly. The only exception was the gray screen instead of background, and missing xsession file. Still have the background problem, but the xsession problem was the fault of SuSE erasing the file during install.
I'd really love to stand behind you when you do this...
It wasn't pretty :) But - did you read what I said here? It was on the SuSE mailing list where I learned that Yast or Sax2 was wiping out the .Xsession file from the root account. I replaced that with a backup, and problem solved. Not a big deal. The big deal was that the X would not even start using the SuSE upgrade.
4) Did everyone see the post from the poor guy who upgraded apache, (again, a SuSE upgrade) and it now doesn't work?
There's ALWAYS someone where everything go wrong, and (almost) always it's NOT our fault.
What is going on here? I cannot believe that SuSE is releasing 7.0 in 10 days, and their 6.4 is such a heap. Or maybe that is the plan.....
All examples you described but one are YOUR problems, with stuff you downloaded. I've no idea what you do, but since I do this a lot and it always works immediately... (no comment)
Well, please, if anyone can shed some light on this stuff, I would appreciate it. I hope it is just me, cause then I can do something about it.
How about: If you want a stable system, don't mess around? And: have a second system on hand for playing and trying out new stuff.
I think I did mention I was working with a test box, right? Or are you flaming without reading the post? Now, as a suse employee, do you have anything constructive to offer? I am trying to learn linux, and come up with a nice, stable box. I also use a test box for playing around on. Your message says "F-u, you're a moron, if you want our software, don't mess with it, and don't expect it to be our fault when it doesn't work" Is that the way you meant it to read? Thanks, Ron
-- Michael Hasenstein http://www.suse.de/~mha/ SuSE Linux AG, Nuernberg (Germany) SuSE Inc., Oakland, California (US)
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Ron Heron wrote:
Michael, you obviously didn't take this mail for what it was intended. Please read my comments to yours. I was looking for positive feedback.
Me too.
I cannot agree. Personal observation. I had fewer problems on older releases.
Ah, you see? Not very useful statement. Not even an example was given.
I was specifically addressing upgrades. Problems are problems. I post problems and responses to this list. It is for that. I was addressing the fact that it seems to me, that the SuSE upgrades are unreliable.
And your point is? People will always have problems. Try to make just ONE program so usefriendly that there will be no questions at all. I'm trying this right now for the ORacle 8.1.6 installation, and the longer I think about every single step the more desperate I get. I cannot do it. Someone's gonna cry for help whatever I do. So I still consider your statement useless. I promise you'll find lots of problem reports here for all time this list exists.
I have had no problems working with kernels on past SuSE distros, or on other distros. Thanks, but I do know what I am doing.
Then you will have no problems getting it to work, period. I'm the example that shows this is true. I DO use SuSE Linux, you know...
b) Correct, the stock 2.2.16 is next to unusable. This is why the SuSE 2.2.16 is a 2.2.16 + several MB of patches, for both stability and features. Where is the SuSE 2.2.16?
How about ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/update/6.4/kernel-2.2.16/
??? Thanks for the detailed bug report. Again, a general statement. I will post details when I start squishing the problems. But, to answer the sarcasm, why didn't SuSE include mpg123 if there are at least three packages that require it?
Which package requires it? Did you file a bug report? I've had no problems listening to any mp3's, don't know which package yo used. By the way, mpg123 is in 7.0, don't know about 6.4.
It wasn't pretty :) But - did you read what I said here? It was on the SuSE mailing list where I learned that Yast or Sax2 was wiping out the .Xsession file from the root account. I replaced that with a backup, and problem solved. Not a big deal. The big deal was that the X would not even start using the SuSE upgrade.
Did you file a bug report (feedback@suse.de)? Of course it's bad.
Now, as a suse employee, do you have anything constructive to offer? I am trying to learn linux,
I have a lot of constructive help to offer, even setting up somebodys Oracle server for free (plus data migration) on a box 10000 km away over the Internet on the weekend. But, I demand a constructive contribution from you as well. You get what you give, at least from me. Other people will always help you, regardless of what you do, and I guess that's better for business.
and come up with a nice, stable box. I also use a test box for playing around on. Your message says "F-u, you're a moron, if you want our software, don't mess with it, and don't expect it to be our fault when it doesn't work" Is that the way you meant it to read?
I simple read from your email, without knowing you. -- Michael Hasenstein http://www.suse.de/~mha/ SuSE Linux AG, Nuernberg (Germany) SuSE Inc., Oakland, California (US) -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
I'm running SuSE 6.3 without any kernel updates. I'd like to upgrade to kernel 2.2.16. I went to ftp:/ftp.suse.com/.../update/6.3 and could not locate anything that looks like a kernel location. (I did not search all the directories). Will k_i386.rpm from the 6.4 update location work under 6.3? If not what is the SuSE way of upgrading the kernel to 2.2.16. BTW I'm currently running 2.2.13. Is there documentation anywhere which describes the steps in upgrading a kernel using k_i386.rpm. I assume you would have to adjust /etc/lilo.conf and run /sbin/lilo. Thanks Terry Michael Hasenstein wrote:
How about ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/update/6.4/kernel-2.2.16/
--
Terry Eck
Terry Eck wrote:
I'm running SuSE 6.3 without any kernel updates. I'd like to upgrade to kernel 2.2.16. I went to ftp:/ftp.suse.com/.../update/6.3 and could not locate anything that looks like a kernel location. (I did not search all the directories). Will k_i386.rpm from the 6.4 update location work under 6.3? If not what is the SuSE way of upgrading the kernel to 2.2.16. BTW I'm currently running 2.2.13.
Is there documentation anywhere which describes the steps in upgrading a kernel using k_i386.rpm. I assume you would have to adjust /etc/lilo.conf and run /sbin/lilo.
You can always grab lx_suse.rpm and compile your own. Or get the tar instead of the rpm version of the SuSE sources directly from ftp.suse.com/pub/people/mantel/ Yes, I do believe the binary kernel rpm's will also work in 6.3. Kernel is kernel, if not it can only be something else, like file locations (where is it installed, what's you lilo.conf). -- Michael Hasenstein http://www.suse.de/~mha/ SuSE Linux AG, Nuernberg (Germany) SuSE Inc., Oakland, California (US) -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
participants (3)
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eck@raytheon.com
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heroron@yahoo.com
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mha@suse.com