[opensuse] 12.1 fubar windowmanager & displaymanager for Gnome needs fixup
Normally I pay no mind to anything having to do with Gnome, but (90% blind) Bob S brought me his puter to install 12.1, among other things. One of those other things was to install the Gnome desktop in hopes that having it normally configured might solve some issues using Gnome apps in his preferred KDE3 environment, plus access to a fully functional Orca. One of those things I paid no attention to in the relnotes was "gnome.fallback=1", which turns out to be necessary on his system. Before I figured this out, I had done a Gnome initial install, and on first X start all I got was the GDM background with a perpetual busy cursor. Not really having any idea what was or wasn't going on, I proceeded to drop to runlevel 3 and install KDE3 with zypper. Next I wanted to fix the subject files so that KDM3, which I well know how to configure manually, and troubleshoot, would be used instead of GDM. So I made copies of windowmanager and displaymanager called windowmanag01er and displaymanag01er, and instead of editing the originals myself, fired up Yast's sysconfig editor. When it became apparent this tool might be doing something fishy (by presenting multiple instances of "DISPLAYMANAGER=" and "WINDOWMANAGER=", among others), I tried to abort without saving. It didn't like what I tried, and exited abnormally. When I checked, sysconfig editor had rewritten my backup files with the same changes as were supposed to be in the working files only. So, I know not how they were initially in order to put them back how they were originally. There's nothing else Gnome around here to compare to. KDM works only almost as it should (does get me into KDE), so I want to try GDM again (now that I'm booting with gnome.fallback=1), which similarly only almost works. The almost part is neither login manager presents an option to open a Gnome session. I tried Metacity, but that produced no apparent reaction when selected. I'm thinking if I had the original subject files, at least GDM ought to present an option to open a Gnome session, and I could then figure out how to get KDM to do the same thing. While to some the comments in those files might seem sufficient to make needed changes, to me they seem to fall short of complete (kde4 vs kde, not vs kde3). Ideas on getting the originals restored? Also, where are the available session types that the login managers should present stored? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2011/12/10 15:40 (GMT-0500) Felix Miata composed:
KDM works only almost as it should (does get me into KDE), so I want to try GDM again (now that I'm booting with gnome.fallback=1), which similarly only almost works. The almost part is neither login manager presents an option to open a Gnome session. I tried Metacity, but that produced no apparent reaction when selected. I'm thinking if I had the original subject files, at least GDM ought to present an option to open a Gnome session, and I could then figure out how to get KDM to do the same thing.
Turns out in my effort to ensure that Network*Manager* would not take the place of traditional ifup and resolv.conf, I taboo'd too many Network*Manager* packages, with the result that about 2/3 of a Gnome install was not installed due to its inane inability to not have NetworkManager complicating life. /usr/share/xsessions had only 3 files, none of which included the string 'nome'. I don't need to "fix" windowmanager or displaymanager, because Gnome can be started from KDM3. Now if only it were so easy to figure out how to get Gnome to unforce DPI to 96 and obey DisplaySize. Text in GTK apps is about 1/8 the size of that in KDE apps, and gnome-control-center shows no option to do anything about fonts. :-( Oh, fonts are in gnome-tweak-tool, which won't run without gnome-shell installed, which doesn't like to be installed due to failed "dependence" on NetworkManager-gnome. Sheesh. And then there's no way to set the font scaling to the desired value. It's adjustable only by slider, which jumps all over the place as you try to get a desired size, no way to type in the desired value (15/8=187.5%) to match KDE's automatic computation from X's DisplaySize that computes to 180 DPI (15*12; 12 being a harmonic font multiple, like 96, 120, 144 & 192). The size picked by the scaler gets buried in the binary ~/.config/dconf/user. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/10/2011 06:56 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
Turns out in my effort to ensure that Network*Manager* would not take the place of traditional ifup and resolv.conf, I taboo'd too many Network*Manager* packages, with the result that about 2/3 of a Gnome install was not installed due to its inane inability to not have NetworkManager complicating life. /usr/share/xsessions had only 3 files, none of which included the string 'nome'. I don't need to "fix" windowmanager or displaymanager, because Gnome can be started from KDM3.
Now if only it were so easy to figure out how to get Gnome to unforce DPI to 96 and obey DisplaySize. Text in GTK apps is about 1/8 the size of that in KDE apps, and gnome-control-center shows no option to do anything about fonts. :-( Oh, fonts are in gnome-tweak-tool, which won't run without gnome-shell installed, which doesn't like to be installed due to failed "dependence" on NetworkManager-gnome. Sheesh.
And then there's no way to set the font scaling to the desired value. It's adjustable only by slider, which jumps all over the place as you try to get a desired size, no way to type in the desired value (15/8=187.5%) to match KDE's automatic computation from X's DisplaySize that computes to 180 DPI (15*12; 12 being a harmonic font multiple, like 96, 120, 144 & 192). The size picked by the scaler gets buried in the binary ~/.config/dconf/user.
I feel your pain Felix. It makes you wonder... When desktop configuration and setup was damn near perfect 3 years ago, what in the world is going on now? Why must all this "progress" completely destroy the usability of what were simple elegant desktops of both kde and gnome? For the love of god, you can't even set the theme in gnome shell, or mouse or much of anything else useful in the default control panel provided in gnome 3 much less the fact that it now cannot even create a semiusable gui with the fallback=1 nightmare. The point being for all the devs out there, you might have the coolest new gee-whiz desktop widget plasma thing, but when it cripples or destroys the simple setup process or renders the desktop unusable without 4 hours of research for a workaround to problem "X" or "Y", then the desktop is NOT ready to be released -- period. Felix, I haven't tried it on 12.1, but if Ilya has done as good a job with KDE3 for 12.1 as he did for 11.4, just install KDE3 and be done with it and continue to wait for the latest, greatest gee-whiz versions of the desktops to mature enough to be usable. If actual history is a reliable indicator, then we may be waiting for a very long time... Recall the first "Official" "non-beta" release of 4.0.4 with 11.1 on June 4, 2008? Well, it is December 12, 2011 and we are at 4.7.4 and we are still not completely there... I'm all for "progress" as long as progress actually works and isn't simply a 'cobble the code together the best you can by date "X" to meet the schedule for release "Y" so there is something called desktop "Z" in the distribution.' Desktop "Z" should work and be fully functional on all boxes the distro is supposed to run on or it shouldn't be included in the distro... Ship the last fully functional version of desktop Z instead. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2011/12/12 10:34 (GMT-0600) David C. Rankin composed:
Felix, I haven't tried it on 12.1, but if Ilya has done as good a job with KDE3 for 12.1 as he did for 11.4, just install KDE3 and be done with it and continue to wait for the latest, greatest gee-whiz versions of the desktops to mature enough to be usable.
The problem is that kde3-kcm_gtk and/or something it depends on is broken (same as in 11.3). Neither use KDE fonts in GTK apps nor specifying a specific size for GTK fonts in KControl works. Menu fonts in GTK apps always come out smaller than those in KDE apps. https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=438874#c13 cf. https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=736132 -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* David C. Rankin <drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com> [12-12-11 11:35]:
I feel your pain Felix. It makes you wonder... When desktop configuration and setup was damn near perfect 3 years ago, what in the world is going on now? Why must all this "progress" completely destroy the usability of what were simple elegant desktops of both kde and gnome?
You need to put this statement/rant into context. Three years ago *your* system/setup appeard "damn near perfect" but many others, perhaps not so vocal, had problems and *cussed* the current (at that time) distro. I might even be able to find derogatory statements/comments *you* made at that time about the distro that appeared now to be "damn near perfect". :^) big brother is watching (since 1949, George Orwell) -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (3)
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David C. Rankin -
Felix Miata -
Patrick Shanahan