Re: [opensuse] Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu
suse@linuxin.dk 07-08-2006 17:20 >>> Of course the openSUSE-project description states: "We work together to create and distribute the world's most usable Linux." I must have gotten this
wrong - I thought we were working together to make (open)SUSE better - but apparently the Linux-distro we're making usable is SLE. Nice of Ted Haeger to inform us what's going on in and around Novell.
Someone please tell me, that this man is _wrong_.
Martin
Martin, I might be wrong, but I always saw openSUSE and SLE{D,P} being close together. I mean, after all, SuSE / Novell is a very active part of the openSUSE Project and is investing work hours (thus money) in it. If they want to develop openSUSE besides their SLE{D,P} products, they could not afford it at all. After all, it depends a lot on the community how solid openSUSE is and will be in the future! Together with SuSE / Novell WE can make the best Distro on the market! BUT: This requires us to be much more helpful especially during Alpha / Beta testing! Don't just deny installing the previews, because they ARE buggy. Install it, write down all the informations for bugs and submit them to Bugzilla. Of course Novell will take one or the other version as a SnapShot for the Enterprise line. With a bit more around, a bit tighter... What's wrong about this? Dominique
Dominique Leuenberger wrote:
suse@linuxin.dk 07-08-2006 17:20 >>>
Of course the openSUSE-project description states: "We work together
to create
and distribute the world's most usable Linux." I must have gotten this
wrong - I thought we were working together to make (open)SUSE better -
but
apparently the Linux-distro we're making usable is SLE. Nice of Ted
Haeger to
inform us what's going on in and around Novell.
Someone please tell me, that this man is _wrong_.
Martin
Martin,
I might be wrong, but I always saw openSUSE and SLE{D,P} being close together. I mean, after all, SuSE / Novell is a very active part of the openSUSE Project and is investing work hours (thus money) in it. If they want to develop openSUSE besides their SLE{D,P} products, they could not afford it at all.
After all, it depends a lot on the community how solid openSUSE is and will be in the future! Together with SuSE / Novell WE can make the best Distro on the market!
BUT: This requires us to be much more helpful especially during Alpha / Beta testing! Don't just deny installing the previews, because they ARE buggy. Install it, write down all the informations for bugs and submit them to Bugzilla.
Of course Novell will take one or the other version as a SnapShot for the Enterprise line. With a bit more around, a bit tighter... What's wrong about this?
Dominique
Nothing as long as the bugs are fixed. The fact that the bugs are not being fixes and that the final product is not fully and completely operation is the issue which is because of the methiod of development which is so un Linux. Go look at the kernel list and you will see that changes are made in small steps not grandious leaps. A principal idea is don't break the make 9with one changes). That idea needs to be incorporated in the distributions. Don't break the distribution with the updates. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
SOTL wrote:
Of course Novell will take one or the other version as a SnapShot for the Enterprise line. With a bit more around, a bit tighter... What's wrong about this?
Dominique
Nothing as long as the bugs are fixed.
And they are. I think I've got one, maybe two outstanding reports on alpha2. And one on 10.1 too. All the rest have been fixed.
The fact that the bugs are not being fixed
I would suggest you substantiate that claim. Perhaps you could provide a list of unfixed reports? /Per Jessen, Zürich --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
Per Jessen wrote:
SOTL wrote:
Of course Novell will take one or the other version as a SnapShot for the Enterprise line. With a bit more around, a bit tighter... What's wrong about this?
Dominique
Nothing as long as the bugs are fixed.
And they are. I think I've got one, maybe two outstanding reports on alpha2. And one on 10.1 too. All the rest have been fixed.
The fact that the bugs are not being fixed
I would suggest you substantiate that claim. Perhaps you could provide a list of unfixed reports?
/Per Jessen, Zürich
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
Easy enough if you check your files.. Go back check your bug file and you will find that I submitted a bug report on the modem issue at the OpenSuSE Beta 9 level. That is significant as I received a email back stating that the email issue would only be fixed in the commerical version of SuSE 10.1. I purchased the commerical version of SuSE 10.1 and guess what the modem still does not work. email address was either sotl155360 or s0tl155360 @earthlink.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
SOTL schrieb:
Per Jessen wrote:
SOTL wrote:
Of course Novell will take one or the other version as a SnapShot for the Enterprise line. With a bit more around, a bit tighter... What's wrong about this?
Dominique
Nothing as long as the bugs are fixed.
And they are. I think I've got one, maybe two outstanding reports on alpha2. And one on 10.1 too. All the rest have been fixed.
The fact that the bugs are not being fixed
I would suggest you substantiate that claim. Perhaps you could provide a list of unfixed reports?
/Per Jessen, Zürich
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
Easy enough if you check your files..
Go back check your bug file and you will find that I submitted a bug report on the modem issue at the OpenSuSE Beta 9 level. That is significant as I received a email back stating that the email issue would only be fixed in the commerical version of SuSE 10.1. I purchased the commerical version of SuSE 10.1 and guess what the modem still does not work.
email address was either sotl155360 or s0tl155360 @earthlink.net
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
so, after you told us a lot of things like a story about a man and a dog, how IT-stuff should be done ( btw: in the last 15 years I have never worked the way you told us, and even now as I have my owen office I and the others here don't work that way ),and a few other things I didn't remember because it get in and out of mind - after all I have one - for me last - question: was there any constructive steps you have done after you checked the commercial versionand found the modem still not working ? anything you have done instead of "rumbeling" on this list ? any eMail / contact to Novell to fix the problem ? asking someone on the list on a constructive way to get your modem working ? JBScout aka Thomy --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
T. Lodewick wrote:
SOTL schrieb:
Per Jessen wrote:
SOTL wrote:
Of course Novell will take one or the other version as a SnapShot for the Enterprise line. With a bit more around, a bit tighter... What's wrong about this?
Dominique
Nothing as long as the bugs are fixed.
And they are. I think I've got one, maybe two outstanding reports on alpha2. And one on 10.1 too. All the rest have been fixed.
The fact that the bugs are not being fixed
I would suggest you substantiate that claim. Perhaps you could provide a list of unfixed reports?
/Per Jessen, Zürich
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
Easy enough if you check your files..
Go back check your bug file and you will find that I submitted a bug report on the modem issue at the OpenSuSE Beta 9 level. That is significant as I received a email back stating that the email issue would only be fixed in the commerical version of SuSE 10.1. I purchased the commerical version of SuSE 10.1 and guess what the modem still does not work.
email address was either sotl155360 or s0tl155360 @earthlink.net
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
so, after you told us a lot of things like a story about a man and a dog, how IT-stuff should be done ( btw: in the last 15 years I have never worked the way you told us, and even now as I have my owen office I and the others here don't work that way ),and a few other things I didn't remember because it get in and out of mind - after all I have one - for me last - question:
was there any constructive steps you have done after you checked the commercial versionand found the modem still not working ? anything you have done instead of "rumbeling" on this list ? any eMail / contact to Novell to fix the problem ? asking someone on the list on a constructive way to get your modem working ?
JBScout aka Thomy
I do not keep logs of everything I do under a dozen different email addresses but that does not mean that I forgot everything I do so I you are expecting a geek type log forget it. I have reported 30 or so bugs under at least 3 different log in to SuSE about various issues with 10.1. Why not use the same login - simple they are password protected and I keep loosing the password and log in information in my updates. Back to the modem The modem cuts to the vary hart of the issue. I have had modems connecting to the internet since the Red Hat 5.x days so it is an old issue that did work that does not not now work and is critical to the usage of internet connection for the majority of people connecting to the internet. Geeks, corporations, et tend to have DSL connections. Corporate executives and many engineers tend to travel around. Great. Some times if one is lucky the office, hotel, library et such people happen to be in have WiFi other times a cable connection is available many times the only connection is good old dial up by long distance. I know been there, done that. Now if one is fortunate enough to be able to connect to the internet by WiFi say at a local library that does not mean that one is able to send email or and attached files. Most often the sending of email is blocked at such locations. Yes sometimes one can send email by a browser and again some times not. Been there done that. Some times when you are lucky it works; some times when you have an ass or an ignoramus for an IT administrator it does not then you are back to the old modem so this is not a trivial issue. It is a major issue. From a technical point of view I am perfectly of making the damn modem work myself. That is not the issue. The real though comes down to attitude and I want Linux to succeed not fail which it surely will if it continues to remain a complete geek thing which no one else can use because installation exceeds their ability which really pisses me off when it is an issue that was solved and fully operational 10 years ago. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
SOTL schrieb:
T. Lodewick wrote:
SOTL schrieb:
Per Jessen wrote:
SOTL wrote:
Of course Novell will take one or the other version as a SnapShot for the Enterprise line. With a bit more around, a bit tighter... What's wrong about this?
Dominique
Nothing as long as the bugs are fixed.
And they are. I think I've got one, maybe two outstanding reports on alpha2. And one on 10.1 too. All the rest have been fixed.
The fact that the bugs are not being fixed
I would suggest you substantiate that claim. Perhaps you could provide a list of unfixed reports?
/Per Jessen, Zürich
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
Easy enough if you check your files..
Go back check your bug file and you will find that I submitted a bug report on the modem issue at the OpenSuSE Beta 9 level. That is significant as I received a email back stating that the email issue would only be fixed in the commerical version of SuSE 10.1. I purchased the commerical version of SuSE 10.1 and guess what the modem still does not work.
email address was either sotl155360 or s0tl155360 @earthlink.net
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
so, after you told us a lot of things like a story about a man and a dog, how IT-stuff should be done ( btw: in the last 15 years I have never worked the way you told us, and even now as I have my owen office I and the others here don't work that way ),and a few other things I didn't remember because it get in and out of mind - after all I have one - for me last - question:
was there any constructive steps you have done after you checked the commercial versionand found the modem still not working ? anything you have done instead of "rumbeling" on this list ? any eMail / contact to Novell to fix the problem ? asking someone on the list on a constructive way to get your modem working ?
JBScout aka Thomy
I do not keep logs of everything I do under a dozen different email addresses but that does not mean that I forgot everything I do so I you are expecting a geek type log forget it.
I have reported 30 or so bugs under at least 3 different log in to SuSE about various issues with 10.1. Why not use the same login - simple they are password protected and I keep loosing the password and log in information in my updates.
Back to the modem
The modem cuts to the vary hart of the issue. I have had modems connecting to the internet since the Red Hat 5.x days so it is an old issue that did work that does not not now work and is critical to the usage of internet connection for the majority of people connecting to the internet. Geeks, corporations, et tend to have DSL connections. Corporate executives and many engineers tend to travel around. Great. Some times if one is lucky the office, hotel, library et such people happen to be in have WiFi other times a cable connection is available many times the only connection is good old dial up by long distance. I know been there, done that. Now if one is fortunate enough to be able to connect to the internet by WiFi say at a local library that does not mean that one is able to send email or and attached files. Most often the sending of email is blocked at such locations. Yes sometimes one can send email by a browser and again some times not. Been there done that. Some times when you are lucky it works; some times when you have an ass or an ignoramus for an IT administrator it does not then you are back to the old modem so this is not a trivial issue. It is a major issue.
From a technical point of view I am perfectly of making the damn modem work myself. That is not the issue.
The real though comes down to attitude and I want Linux to succeed not fail which it surely will if it continues to remain a complete geek thing which no one else can use because installation exceeds their ability which really pisses me off when it is an issue that was solved and fully operational 10 years ago.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
I know why to use a modem. and even not - a simple " I need it" could say it also. but the question is still open: what did you do after you get the "commercial version" and saw that the modem isn't working ? JBScout aka Thomy --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
T. Lodewick wrote:
SOTL schrieb:
T. Lodewick wrote:
SOTL schrieb:
Per Jessen wrote:
SOTL wrote:
>Of course Novell will take one or the other version as a SnapShot for >the Enterprise line. With a bit more around, a bit tighter... >What's wrong about this? > >Dominique > > > > > > Nothing as long as the bugs are fixed.
And they are. I think I've got one, maybe two outstanding reports on alpha2. And one on 10.1 too. All the rest have been fixed.
The fact that the bugs are not being fixed
I would suggest you substantiate that claim. Perhaps you could provide a list of unfixed reports?
/Per Jessen, Zürich
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
Easy enough if you check your files..
Go back check your bug file and you will find that I submitted a bug report on the modem issue at the OpenSuSE Beta 9 level. That is significant as I received a email back stating that the email issue would only be fixed in the commerical version of SuSE 10.1. I purchased the commerical version of SuSE 10.1 and guess what the modem still does not work.
email address was either sotl155360 or s0tl155360 @earthlink.net
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
so, after you told us a lot of things like a story about a man and a dog, how IT-stuff should be done ( btw: in the last 15 years I have never worked the way you told us, and even now as I have my owen office I and the others here don't work that way ),and a few other things I didn't remember because it get in and out of mind - after all I have one - for me last - question:
was there any constructive steps you have done after you checked the commercial versionand found the modem still not working ? anything you have done instead of "rumbeling" on this list ? any eMail / contact to Novell to fix the problem ? asking someone on the list on a constructive way to get your modem working ?
JBScout aka Thomy
I do not keep logs of everything I do under a dozen different email addresses but that does not mean that I forgot everything I do so I you are expecting a geek type log forget it.
I have reported 30 or so bugs under at least 3 different log in to SuSE about various issues with 10.1. Why not use the same login - simple they are password protected and I keep loosing the password and log in information in my updates.
Back to the modem
The modem cuts to the vary hart of the issue. I have had modems connecting to the internet since the Red Hat 5.x days so it is an old issue that did work that does not not now work and is critical to the usage of internet connection for the majority of people connecting to the internet. Geeks, corporations, et tend to have DSL connections. Corporate executives and many engineers tend to travel around. Great. Some times if one is lucky the office, hotel, library et such people happen to be in have WiFi other times a cable connection is available many times the only connection is good old dial up by long distance. I know been there, done that. Now if one is fortunate enough to be able to connect to the internet by WiFi say at a local library that does not mean that one is able to send email or and attached files. Most often the sending of email is blocked at such locations. Yes sometimes one can send email by a browser and again some times not. Been there done that. Some times when you are lucky it works; some times when you have an ass or an ignoramus for an IT administrator it does not then you are back to the old modem so this is not a trivial issue. It is a major issue.
From a technical point of view I am perfectly of making the damn modem work myself. That is not the issue.
The real though comes down to attitude and I want Linux to succeed not fail which it surely will if it continues to remain a complete geek thing which no one else can use because installation exceeds their ability which really pisses me off when it is an issue that was solved and fully operational 10 years ago.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
I know why to use a modem. and even not - a simple " I need it" could say it also.
but the question is still open: what did you do after you get the "commercial version" and saw that the modem isn't working ?
JBScout aka Thomy
Dropped the laptop . --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 02:17:05PM -0400, SOTL wrote:
T. Lodewick wrote:
SOTL schrieb:
Folks, make sure you remove the not needed quoted content. Your mails are not readable. Ciao, Marcus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
SOTL wrote:
I have reported 30 or so bugs under at least 3 different log in to SuSE about various issues with 10.1.
Great! Then all you need to do is login to bugzilla.novell.com and retrieve your list of reported bugs - if you don't mind, you can substantiate your earlier claim by simply posting that list here. /Per Jessen, Zürich --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
SOTL wrote:
Easy enough if you check your files..
Go back check your bug file and you will find that I submitted a bug report on the modem issue at the OpenSuSE Beta 9 level.
SOTL, why not make it easier for everyone and just provide the bugreport# ? That way we can all access the report directly without having to "check our files" - not sure why your bugs would turn up in my files? Remember, bugs are reported, diagnosed and tracked at bugzilla.novell.com. /Per Jessen, Zürich --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
participants (5)
-
Dominique Leuenberger -
Marcus Meissner -
Per Jessen -
SOTL -
T. Lodewick