[opensuse] Laptop advice
Hi, I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ? I like this one : HP Probook 450 G5 Notebook with Intel® i7-8550U (1.8GHz, 8MB Cache, 4 cores) and 2GB Discrete NVIDIA Graphics - 1LU52AV NVIDIA graphix is GeForce 930MX. TIA Koenraad. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On May 6, 2018 6:32:13 AM PDT, Koenraad Lelong <k.lelong@ace-electronics.be> wrote:
Hi,
I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ?
I like this one : HP Probook 450 G5 Notebook with Intel® i7-8550U (1.8GHz, 8MB Cache, 4 cores) and 2GB Discrete NVIDIA Graphics - 1LU52AV NVIDIA graphix is GeForce 930MX.
TIA
Koenraad.
Avoid Nvidia. It will be a perpetual source of problems. At the very least, research Linux compatiblity of the chipset carefully. Also the Wi-Fi used, and Max memory that it will accept. -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* John Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com> [05-06-18 11:19]:
On May 6, 2018 6:32:13 AM PDT, Koenraad Lelong <k.lelong@ace-electronics.be> wrote:
Hi,
I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ?
I like this one : HP Probook 450 G5 Notebook with Intel® i7-8550U (1.8GHz, 8MB Cache, 4 cores) and 2GB Discrete NVIDIA Graphics - 1LU52AV NVIDIA graphix is GeForce 930MX.
TIA
Koenraad.
Avoid Nvidia. It will be a perpetual source of problems. At the very least, research Linux compatiblity of the chipset carefully. Also the Wi-Fi used, and Max memory that it will accept.
seems to be a contentious point. I actually look for and prefer nvidia, expecially for working photographs. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Am 06.05.2018 um 17:16 schrieb John Andersen:
On May 6, 2018 6:32:13 AM PDT, Koenraad Lelong <k.lelong@ace-electronics.be> wrote:
Hi,
I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ?
I like this one : HP Probook 450 G5 Notebook with Intel® i7-8550U (1.8GHz, 8MB Cache, 4 cores) and 2GB Discrete NVIDIA Graphics - 1LU52AV NVIDIA graphix is GeForce 930MX.
TIA
Koenraad.
Avoid Nvidia. It will be a perpetual source of problems. At the very least, research Linux compatiblity of the chipset carefully. Also the Wi-Fi used, and Max memory that it will accept.
can't agree, I always take Nvidia, find it far more easy to use under OpenSuSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2018-05-07 21:53, Karl Sinn wrote:
Am 06.05.2018 um 17:16 schrieb John Andersen:
On May 6, 2018 6:32:13 AM PDT, Koenraad Lelong <k.lelong@ace-electronics.be> wrote:
Hi,
I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ?
I like this one : HP Probook 450 G5 Notebook with Intel® i7-8550U (1.8GHz, 8MB Cache, 4 cores) and 2GB Discrete NVIDIA Graphics - 1LU52AV NVIDIA graphix is GeForce 930MX.
TIA
Koenraad.
Avoid Nvidia. It will be a perpetual source of problems. At the very least, research Linux compatiblity of the chipset carefully. Also the Wi-Fi used, and Max memory that it will accept.
can't agree, I always take Nvidia, find it far more easy to use under OpenSuSE
Remember that we are talking laptops, which typically means hybrid nvidia-intel graphics, and these are a pain. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [05-07-18 15:59]:
On 2018-05-07 21:53, Karl Sinn wrote:
Am 06.05.2018 um 17:16 schrieb John Andersen:
On May 6, 2018 6:32:13 AM PDT, Koenraad Lelong <k.lelong@ace-electronics.be> wrote:
Hi,
I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ?
I like this one : HP Probook 450 G5 Notebook with Intel® i7-8550U (1.8GHz, 8MB Cache, 4 cores) and 2GB Discrete NVIDIA Graphics - 1LU52AV NVIDIA graphix is GeForce 930MX.
TIA
Koenraad.
Avoid Nvidia. It will be a perpetual source of problems. At the very least, research Linux compatiblity of the chipset carefully. Also the Wi-Fi used, and Max memory that it will accept.
can't agree, I always take Nvidia, find it far more easy to use under OpenSuSE
Remember that we are talking laptops, which typically means hybrid nvidia-intel graphics, and these are a pain.
which means the question of nvidia is being skewed. nvidia does not mean nvidia-intel. the OP sadi "nvidia" not nvidia-intel and the answers or comments refer to "nvidia", not nvidia-intel. I also look for nvidia. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/07/2018 02:57 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Remember that we are talking laptops, which typically means hybrid nvidia-intel graphics, and these are a pain.
On a laptop, I have had better luck with Nvidia. AMD will just draw a line in the sand and stop producing drivers for all video cards before model X (recall the fglrx debacle on 10/2008?) The only issue with Nvidia cards is whether you use the nouveau or proprietary drivers. Both use different /sys/class/backlight interfaces so you can lose backlight (screen brightness) control. (it's still there -- what you have to do to make it work changes) Pure Intel graphics are also well supported out of the box. With 42.2, I ran the Nvidia propriety drivers, for 42.3 I haven't bothered with the install. Nouveau performance is fine for my purposes. If I load compiz, then I switch, but I don't game, so FPS isn't really an issue. Video and 2D graphics is fine with either. No problems either way. (except hacking how /sys/class/backlight/acpi_video0/brightness gets set, or change to xrandr control) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
On 05/07/2018 09:42 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:
On a laptop, I have had better luck with Nvidia. AMD will just draw a line in the sand and stop producing drivers for all video cards before model X (recall the fglrx debacle on 10/2008?)
No, that's just not true. AMD has been seeding actively feeding community driver program amdgpu and the older radeon cards are fully supported via the community drivers with back-door help from AMD. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd-opensource-10&num=1 Suse was instrumental in getting them started on this approach. You are hard pressed to find any model of ATI/AMD card that has been totally abandoned. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done.
On 05/08/2018 12:27 AM, John Andersen wrote:
No, that's just not true.
AMD has been seeding actively feeding community driver program amdgpu and the older radeon cards are fully supported via the community drivers with back-door help from AMD.
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd-opensource-10&num=1 Suse was instrumental in getting them started on this approach.
You are hard pressed to find any model of ATI/AMD card that has been totally abandoned.
That's only partially true. There are no fglrx drivers at all anymore for anything before the 2000.x version cards. All the x1800, x1650, x1600 or earlier cards (x800 - some very expensive cards of the time) are simply not provide. (e.g. there is no driver for my older toshiba laptop with the x1250 card) VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RS690M [Radeon Xpress 1200/1250/1270] This isn't just a Linux thing either -- they are not provided for windoze either. If I crank up the drive with openSuSE 11.0 - the graphics are perfect with the ATI fglrx driver :) Compiz flies and the cube or sphere spins off the screen (figuratively) But that was the last distro that had a fglrx driver. I'll double-check, nothing would make me happier to find an accelerated driver. I just installed Leap 42.3 on that laptop. As in my original post -- it's find for my use, but I would sure like to find a fglrx driver that would work :) Thank you for the link! -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
David C. Rankin composed on 2018-05-08 03:19 (UTC-0500):
John Andersen wrote: ...
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd-opensource-10&num=1 Suse was instrumental in getting them started on this approach.
You are hard pressed to find any model of ATI/AMD card that has been totally abandoned.
That's only partially true. There are no fglrx drivers at all anymore for anything before the 2000.x version cards. All the x1800, x1650, x1600 or earlier cards (x800 - some very expensive cards of the time) are simply not provide. (e.g. there is no driver for my older toshiba laptop with the x1250 card)
VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RS690M [Radeon Xpress 1200/1250/1270]
This isn't just a Linux thing either -- they are not provided for windoze either.
If I crank up the drive with openSuSE 11.0 - the graphics are perfect with the ATI fglrx driver :) Compiz flies and the cube or sphere spins off the screen (figuratively) But that was the last distro that had a fglrx driver.
I'll double-check, nothing would make me happier to find an accelerated driver. I just installed Leap 42.3 on that laptop. As in my original post -- it's find for my use, but I would sure like to find a fglrx driver that would work :)
My PCs are all tools, not toys. Whatever 3D is supposed to be, it's more annoying than anything to me, so compositing is globally disabled. With an occasional exception of https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90572 that is mere annoyance, the FOSS ATI/Radeon driver works competently for all my (passive-cooled) antiques: 7500 (rv200) 9000 (rv250) FireGL V3100 (rv370 actively cooled; was free) X300 (rv370) X600 (rv380) Xpress 200 (rc410) X1300 (rv516) HD2400 (rv610) as does modesetting for newer: HD5450 (Cedar) HD6450 (Caicos) -- "Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2018-05-08 06:42, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 05/07/2018 02:57 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Remember that we are talking laptops, which typically means hybrid nvidia-intel graphics, and these are a pain.
On a laptop, I have had better luck with Nvidia. AMD will just draw a line in the sand and stop producing drivers for all video cards before model X (recall the fglrx debacle on 10/2008?) The only issue with Nvidia cards is whether you use the nouveau or proprietary drivers. Both use different /sys/class/backlight interfaces so you can lose backlight (screen brightness) control. (it's still there -- what you have to do to make it work changes)
Pure Intel graphics are also well supported out of the box.
With 42.2, I ran the Nvidia propriety drivers, for 42.3 I haven't bothered with the install. Nouveau performance is fine for my purposes. If I load compiz, then I switch, but I don't game, so FPS isn't really an issue. Video and 2D graphics is fine with either. No problems either way. (except hacking how /sys/class/backlight/acpi_video0/brightness gets set, or change to xrandr control)
I agree that pure Nvidia setups are no problem. So are (most) pure Intel graphics. But hybrids are a pain, and those are the most common things sold out there. Wait, there have been problems for a year with I don't remember which Intel graphics chipset. On the other hand, AMD has been playing nice to Linux lately, so I heard. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
06.05.2018 16:32, Koenraad Lelong пишет:
Hi,
I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ?
I like this one : HP Probook 450 G5 Notebook with Intel® i7-8550U
Well, if you need notebook to do actual work and not tinker with Linux, do not rush for the latest and the greatest. I have my current notebook for slightly less than 4 years, it is Broadwell and it took almost two years to iron out all pain points (kernel/Xorg). It does all I need, the only thing I'd probably change in the hindsight is HDD but there was no option to use SSD. Oh, and HiDPI support in Linux still leaves a lot to wish ... one more thing to consider.
(1.8GHz, 8MB Cache, 4 cores) and 2GB Discrete NVIDIA Graphics - 1LU52AV NVIDIA graphix is GeForce 930MX.
Does not really matter, if you do not need it you can always leave it powered down and use iGPU. Although I'd check support status of nouveau for your chip. More important probably is wireless, having something Linux friendly makes life easier. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday, May 6, 2018 8:03:14 PM CEST Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
06.05.2018 16:32, Koenraad Lelong пишет:
Hi,
I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ?
I like this one : HP Probook 450 G5 Notebook with Intel® i7-8550U
Well, if you need notebook to do actual work and not tinker with Linux, do not rush for the latest and the greatest. I have my current notebook for slightly less than 4 years, it is Broadwell and it took almost two years to iron out all pain points (kernel/Xorg). It does all I need, the only thing I'd probably change in the hindsight is HDD but there was no option to use SSD.
Oh, and HiDPI support in Linux still leaves a lot to wish ... one more thing to consider.
(1.8GHz, 8MB Cache, 4 cores) and 2GB Discrete NVIDIA Graphics - 1LU52AV NVIDIA graphix is GeForce 930MX.
Does not really matter, if you do not need it you can always leave it powered down and use iGPU. Although I'd check support status of nouveau for your chip.
More important probably is wireless, having something Linux friendly makes life easier.
Why do you need Nvidia for photographs anyway? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On May 6, 2018 11:07:26 AM PDT, Kaigue <kaigue7@gmail.com> wrote:
06.05.2018 16:32, Koenraad Lelong пишет:
Hi,
I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ?
I like this one : HP Probook 450 G5 Notebook with Intel® i7-8550U
Well, if you need notebook to do actual work and not tinker with Linux, do not rush for the latest and the greatest. I have my current notebook for slightly less than 4 years, it is Broadwell and it took almost two years to iron out all pain points (kernel/Xorg). It does all I need,
On Sunday, May 6, 2018 8:03:14 PM CEST Andrei Borzenkov wrote: the
only thing I'd probably change in the hindsight is HDD but there was no option to use SSD.
Oh, and HiDPI support in Linux still leaves a lot to wish ... one more thing to consider.
(1.8GHz, 8MB Cache, 4 cores) and 2GB Discrete NVIDIA Graphics - 1LU52AV NVIDIA graphix is GeForce 930MX.
Does not really matter, if you do not need it you can always leave it powered down and use iGPU. Although I'd check support status of nouveau for your chip.
More important probably is wireless, having something Linux friendly makes life easier.
Why do you need Nvidia for photographs anyway
Exactly my question. Gaming, maybe. Just regular computer presentation requires very little in the way of a GPU, Even if you want to turn on all the KDE Bling and use compositing. There's no reason to always be chasing proprietary drivers to fiddle with photos. -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* John Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com> [05-06-18 18:36]:
On May 6, 2018 11:07:26 AM PDT, Kaigue <kaigue7@gmail.com> wrote: [...]
Why do you need Nvidia for photographs anyway
Exactly my question. Gaming, maybe.
Just regular computer presentation requires very little in the way of a GPU, Even if you want to turn on all the KDE Bling and use compositing.
There's no reason to always be chasing proprietary drivers to fiddle with photos.
then you have little perception of editing photographs, especially a large group. cpu, gpu, memory, disk io -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2018-05-07 00:34, John Andersen wrote:
On May 6, 2018 11:07:26 AM PDT, Kaigue <kaigue7@gmail.com> wrote:
06.05.2018 16:32, Koenraad Lelong пишет:
Hi,
I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ?
I like this one : HP Probook 450 G5 Notebook with Intel® i7-8550U
Well, if you need notebook to do actual work and not tinker with Linux, do not rush for the latest and the greatest. I have my current notebook for slightly less than 4 years, it is Broadwell and it took almost two years to iron out all pain points (kernel/Xorg). It does all I need,
On Sunday, May 6, 2018 8:03:14 PM CEST Andrei Borzenkov wrote: the
only thing I'd probably change in the hindsight is HDD but there was no option to use SSD.
Oh, and HiDPI support in Linux still leaves a lot to wish ... one more thing to consider.
(1.8GHz, 8MB Cache, 4 cores) and 2GB Discrete NVIDIA Graphics - 1LU52AV NVIDIA graphix is GeForce 930MX.
Does not really matter, if you do not need it you can always leave it powered down and use iGPU. Although I'd check support status of nouveau for your chip.
More important probably is wireless, having something Linux friendly makes life easier.
Why do you need Nvidia for photographs anyway
Exactly my question. Gaming, maybe.
Just regular computer presentation requires very little in the way of a GPU, Even if you want to turn on all the KDE Bling and use compositing.
There's no reason to always be chasing proprietary drivers to fiddle with photos.
Just displaying photos is no problem. Treating them is, because apparently they use GPU code. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2018-05-07 00:34, John Andersen wrote:
Just regular computer presentation requires very little in the way of a GPU, Even if you want to turn on all the KDE Bling and use compositing.
There's no reason to always be chasing proprietary drivers to fiddle with photos.
Just displaying photos is no problem. Treating them is, because apparently they use GPU code.
photo apps like darktable, digikam, gimps and whatever they are all called? I was not aware, wow. I guess such apps _can_ utilize a GPU when present, but they ought to work without a GPU too. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (20.4°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Per, et al -- ...and then Per Jessen said... % ... % I guess such apps _can_ utilize a GPU when present, but they ought to % work without a GPU too. Sure. It just depends on how quickly you want to do anything. If you don't mind slow, then no GPU is no problem. HAND :-D -- David T-G See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/email/ See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/tofu.txt -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2018-05-07 13:20, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2018-05-07 00:34, John Andersen wrote:
Just regular computer presentation requires very little in the way of a GPU, Even if you want to turn on all the KDE Bling and use compositing.
There's no reason to always be chasing proprietary drivers to fiddle with photos.
Just displaying photos is no problem. Treating them is, because apparently they use GPU code.
photo apps like darktable, digikam, gimps and whatever they are all called? I was not aware, wow. I guess such apps _can_ utilize a GPU when present, but they ought to work without a GPU too.
Mind, I do not know for certain which Linux apps do. Others use Windows apps, either virtually or dual boot. I use my camera manufacturer app sometimes, dual boot; on my vmware virtual machine it crawls. And my dual boot machine has Intel video, so... -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
06.05.2018 16:32, Koenraad Lelong пишет:
Hi,
I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ?
I like this one : HP Probook 450 G5 Notebook with Intel® i7-8550U
Well, if you need notebook to do actual work and not tinker with Linux, do not rush for the latest and the greatest.
Exactly. +1. In my company we aim for those older models, often available at half the price of the latest and greatest. That in itself is also an advantage, but the key thing is that the hardware generally just works. I have never been fond of HP laptops, Lenovo and Toshiba are my favourites. (my first personal Toshiba laptop with Linux goes back to the late 90s). -- Per Jessen, Zürich (21.4°C) http://www.cloudsuisse.com/ - your owncloud, hosted in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/06/2018 02:25 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
I have never been fond of HP laptops, Lenovo and Toshiba are my favourites. (my first personal Toshiba laptop with Linux goes back to the late 90s).
Lenovo ThinkPads are generally good. I don't think the same applies to plain Lenovo. One thing that's important is the TrackPoint. I hate using one of those glide pad thingies. I first came across those on a Toshiba running Windows 95 and have hated them ever since. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
06.05.2018 21:28, James Knott пишет:
One thing that's important is the TrackPoint.
Well, I was happy when I found how to disable it in my Dell (while keeping buttons functional) :) It has both trackpoint and normal touchpad. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Andrei, et al -- ...and then Andrei Borzenkov said... % % 06.05.2018 21:28, James Knott ??????????: % > One thing that's important is the TrackPoint. % % Well, I was happy when I found how to disable it in my Dell (while % keeping buttons functional) :) It has both trackpoint and normal touchpad. OH! Do you (or does anyone) know the converse, how to disable that God-forsaken trackpad and those extra buttons? I CAN'T STAND THE STUPID THING!!! The trackpoint is all I need :-) TIA & HAND :-D -- David T-G See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/email/ See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/tofu.txt -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 2:46 PM, David T-G <davidtg-robot@justpickone.org> wrote:
Andrei, et al --
...and then Andrei Borzenkov said... % % 06.05.2018 21:28, James Knott ??????????: % > One thing that's important is the TrackPoint. % % Well, I was happy when I found how to disable it in my Dell (while % keeping buttons functional) :) It has both trackpoint and normal touchpad.
OH! Do you (or does anyone) know the converse, how to disable that God-forsaken trackpad and those extra buttons? I CAN'T STAND THE STUPID THING!!! The trackpoint is all I need :-)
100% Concur!!!! You can disable them in BIOS (at least, on all of the laptops that I've encountered). Alternately, you can disable it in KDE (settings->System Settings->Input Devices), probably in Gnome or whatever desktop you're using, as well, but I've no personal experience there. Hope this helps, -Nick -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Nick, et al -- ...and then Nick LeRoy said... % % On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 2:46 PM, David T-G <davidtg-robot@justpickone.org> wrote: % > % > OH! Do you (or does anyone) know the converse, how to disable that % > God-forsaken trackpad and those extra buttons? I CAN'T STAND THE STUPID % > THING!!! The trackpoint is all I need :-) % % 100% Concur!!!! You can disable them in BIOS (at least, on all of the % laptops that I've encountered). Welllll... I don't want to disable all on-board mousing, which is at least what my Dell BIOS does. As a touch typist, I like the trackpoint; I just hate the trackpad that my hand brushes and moves my mouse that it shouldn't. % % Alternately, you can disable it in KDE (settings->System % Settings->Input Devices), probably in Gnome or whatever desktop you're % using, as well, but I've no personal experience there. Hmmmmm... Thanks; I'll try it! % % Hope this helps, % % -Nick HAND :-D -- David T-G See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/email/ See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/tofu.txt -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Nick, et al -- ...and then Nick LeRoy said... % ... % Alternately, you can disable it in KDE (settings->System % Settings->Input Devices), probably in Gnome or whatever desktop you're % using, as well, but I've no personal experience there. Hmmm... Looks like my Leap 42.3 system is using Plasma, and System doesn't have an "Input Devices" or similar. Dang. HAND :-D -- David T-G See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/email/ See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/tofu.txt -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Hello David, On 07/05/18 05:55, David T-G wrote:
Nick, et al --
...and then Nick LeRoy said... % ... % Alternately, you can disable it in KDE (settings->System % Settings->Input Devices), probably in Gnome or whatever desktop you're % using, as well, but I've no personal experience there.
Hmmm... Looks like my Leap 42.3 system is using Plasma, and System doesn't have an "Input Devices" or similar. Dang.
Start by listing your X input devices with: $ xinput list On my Lenovo T530, this gives me the following output: ---------------------<cut>----------------------- pan@kermit:~> xinput list ⎡ Virtual core pointer id=2 [master pointer (3)] ⎜ ↳ Virtual core XTEST pointer id=4 [slave pointer (2)] ⎜ ↳ Logitech USB Laser Mouse id=10 [slave pointer (2)] ⎜ ↳ TPPS/2 IBM TrackPoint id=13 [slave pointer (2)] ⎜ ↳ SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad id=12 [slave pointer (2)] ⎣ Virtual core keyboard id=3 [master keyboard (2)] ↳ Virtual core XTEST keyboard id=5 [slave keyboard (3)] ↳ Power Button id=6 [slave keyboard (3)] ↳ Video Bus id=7 [slave keyboard (3)] ↳ Sleep Button id=8 [slave keyboard (3)] ↳ Integrated Camera id=9 [slave keyboard (3)] ↳ AT Translated Set 2 keyboard id=11 [slave keyboard (3)] ↳ ThinkPad Extra Buttons id=14 [slave keyboard (3)] ---------------------<cut>----------------------- Then, you should create a script (its name doesn't matter -- I called it "disable_touchpad") below ~/.kde4/Autostart/ with a contents similar to the following: ---------------------<cut>----------------------- #!/bin/sh # Disable Synaptics Touchpad xinput disable 12 ---------------------<cut>----------------------- I'm on OpenSUSE 13.2 -- you may need to adapt the paths on a more recent version of the distro. HTH Cheers. Bye. Ph. A. -- *Philippe Andersson* Unix System Administrator IBA Particle Therapy | Tel: +32-10-475.983 Fax: +32-10-487.707 eMail: pan@iba-group.com <http://www.iba-worldwide.com>
Am 07.05.2018 um 05:55 schrieb David T-G:
Nick, et al --
...and then Nick LeRoy said... % ... % Alternately, you can disable it in KDE (settings->System % Settings->Input Devices), probably in Gnome or whatever desktop you're % using, as well, but I've no personal experience there.
Hmmm... Looks like my Leap 42.3 system is using Plasma, and System doesn't have an "Input Devices" or similar. Dang.
run kcmshell5 kcm_touchpad
James Knott wrote:
On 05/06/2018 02:25 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
I have never been fond of HP laptops, Lenovo and Toshiba are my favourites. (my first personal Toshiba laptop with Linux goes back to the late 90s).
Lenovo ThinkPads are generally good.
Sorry, I should have been clear - yes, I meant Thinkpads.
I don't think the same applies to plain Lenovo.
I have one here right next to me - apart from an issue with rfkill, which forced me to use NetworkManager, it's been fine. Not a general recommendation, it's the only non-Thinkpad we have. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (14.4°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
06.05.2018 21:25, Per Jessen пишет:
I have never been fond of HP laptops, Lenovo and Toshiba are my favourites. (my first personal Toshiba laptop with Linux goes back to the late 90s).
I have pretty good experience with Dell (my current one was offered with Linux), before I had Toshiba which made me delve more deep into Linux wireless (due to lack of proper WPA support in in-tree drivers) :) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 06.05.2018 15:32, Koenraad Lelong wrote:
Hi,
I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ?
I like this one : HP Probook 450 G5 Notebook with Intel® i7-8550U (1.8GHz, 8MB Cache, 4 cores) and 2GB Discrete NVIDIA Graphics - 1LU52AV NVIDIA graphix is GeForce 930MX.
TIA
Koenraad.
The "double-gpu's" with nvidia ("optimus") do *not* work on opensuse. It is as disaster. Buy the cheapest box you find, opensuse doesn't deserve better. Or stay with a mobile phone. If you think I am angry about that, you guessed absolutely right. Filing a bug did not change anything. While before it worked, now it doesn't anymore and there is obviously no way to get it work. For me terrible. Using Windows in a virtual box (which I have to, due to camera manufacturer software) goes by far over the capabilities of the minimum intel video, images appear extremely slow and unsharp, the screen flickers. You can also forget to watch high-res videos if you have a high res screen. Unfortunately I have opensuse on my laptop and can't change it due to compatibility reasons, but I would never ever again buy a high-end laptop for opensuse. It's crap. Money for the laptop thrown out of the window. Go for the cheapest, best something old, second-hand. Don't expect power. Opensuse is not made for modern laptops. -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona https://www.patreon.com/danielbauer http://www.daniel-bauer.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op maandag 7 mei 2018 17:39:29 CEST schreef Daniel Bauer:
On 06.05.2018 15:32, Koenraad Lelong wrote:
Hi,
I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ?
I like this one : HP Probook 450 G5 Notebook with Intel® i7-8550U (1.8GHz, 8MB Cache, 4 cores) and 2GB Discrete NVIDIA Graphics - 1LU52AV NVIDIA graphix is GeForce 930MX.
TIA
Koenraad.
The "double-gpu's" with nvidia ("optimus") do *not* work on opensuse. It is as disaster. Buy the cheapest box you find, opensuse doesn't deserve better. Or stay with a mobile phone.
If you think I am angry about that, you guessed absolutely right. Filing a bug did not change anything. While before it worked, now it doesn't anymore and there is obviously no way to get it work.
For me terrible. Using Windows in a virtual box (which I have to, due to camera manufacturer software) goes by far over the capabilities of the minimum intel video, images appear extremely slow and unsharp, the screen flickers. You can also forget to watch high-res videos if you have a high res screen.
Unfortunately I have opensuse on my laptop and can't change it due to compatibility reasons, but I would never ever again buy a high-end laptop for opensuse. It's crap. Money for the laptop thrown out of the window.
Go for the cheapest, best something old, second-hand. Don't expect power. Opensuse is not made for modern laptops. Sorry, but the generalization here is nonsense. I did install ( recently, on a couple of recent laptops with dual grahics ) and albeit needing some tinkering, it works fine. Unless my customers do not report non-functional laptops, which I doubt.
-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Am 07.05.2018 um 17:47 schrieb Knurpht @ openSUSE:
Op maandag 7 mei 2018 17:39:29 CEST schreef Daniel Bauer:
On 06.05.2018 15:32, Koenraad Lelong wrote:
Hi,
I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ?
snip
The "double-gpu's" with nvidia ("optimus") do *not* work on opensuse. It is as disaster. snip Sorry, but the generalization here is nonsense. I did install ( recently, on a couple of recent laptops with dual grahics ) and albeit needing some tinkering, it works fine. Unless my customers do not report non-functional laptops, which I doubt.
You may want to have a look at those two EMails of mine to the factory mailing list: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2018-04/msg00317.html https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2018-04/msg00752.html and this bugreport which i found in bugzilla https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1089116 Regards Hagen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2018-05-07 17:47, Knurpht @ openSUSE wrote:
Op maandag 7 mei 2018 17:39:29 CEST schreef Daniel Bauer:
On 06.05.2018 15:32, Koenraad Lelong wrote:
Hi,
I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ?
I like this one : HP Probook 450 G5 Notebook with Intel® i7-8550U (1.8GHz, 8MB Cache, 4 cores) and 2GB Discrete NVIDIA Graphics - 1LU52AV NVIDIA graphix is GeForce 930MX.
TIA
Koenraad.
The "double-gpu's" with nvidia ("optimus") do *not* work on opensuse. It is as disaster. Buy the cheapest box you find, opensuse doesn't deserve better. Or stay with a mobile phone.
If you think I am angry about that, you guessed absolutely right. Filing a bug did not change anything. While before it worked, now it doesn't anymore and there is obviously no way to get it work.
For me terrible. Using Windows in a virtual box (which I have to, due to camera manufacturer software) goes by far over the capabilities of the minimum intel video, images appear extremely slow and unsharp, the screen flickers. You can also forget to watch high-res videos if you have a high res screen.
Unfortunately I have opensuse on my laptop and can't change it due to compatibility reasons, but I would never ever again buy a high-end laptop for opensuse. It's crap. Money for the laptop thrown out of the window.
Go for the cheapest, best something old, second-hand. Don't expect power. Opensuse is not made for modern laptops. Sorry, but the generalization here is nonsense. I did install ( recently, on a couple of recent laptops with dual grahics ) and albeit needing some tinkering, it works fine. Unless my customers do not report non-functional laptops, which I doubt.
There are several posts of people having bad problems with optimus hardware and Leap 15. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On 07.05.2018 17:47, Knurpht @ openSUSE wrote:
Op maandag 7 mei 2018 17:39:29 CEST schreef Daniel Bauer:
On 06.05.2018 15:32, Koenraad Lelong wrote:
Hi,
I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ? ...
The "double-gpu's" with nvidia ("optimus") do *not* work on opensuse. It is as disaster. Buy the cheapest box you find, opensuse doesn't deserve better. Or stay with a mobile phone.
If you think I am angry about that, you guessed absolutely right.
...
Sorry, but the generalization here is nonsense. I did install ( recently, on a couple of recent laptops with dual grahics ) and albeit needing some tinkering, it works fine. Unless my customers do not report non-functional laptops, which I doubt.
Ok, my rant was hard, I know. But having my laptop with non-working nvidia is nonsense, too. Expensive nonsense. The change - what ever it was - that made switching from intel to nvidia impossible, causes me great problems every single day. It's an important problem for me and I lost nerves because right now I had to work some hours with this half-baked intel solution. Things that would have gone much faster if optimus worked. I was searching for help on this list. I have filed a bug report with all details I could imagine to be helpful. ( https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1088287 ) I was searching google for many hours, trying what ever I could find. No, nvidia does not run on my laptop. If you (and Peter) say it works on your laptops I would be *extremely* interested on how to achieve this, too. And yes, I know one should not empty it's "overcooking pan" on this list. I always try to avoid it. But as this affects me so much, I just couldn't. Sorry. -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona https://www.patreon.com/danielbauer http://www.daniel-bauer.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op maandag 7 mei 2018 20:51:24 CEST schreef Daniel Bauer:
> On 07.05.2018 17:47, Knurpht @ openSUSE wrote:
> > Op maandag 7 mei 2018 17:39:29 CEST schreef Daniel Bauer:
> >> On 06.05.2018 15:32, Koenraad Lelong wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is
> >>> there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ?
>
> ...
>
> >> The "double-gpu's" with nvidia ("optimus") do *not* work on opensuse. It
> >> is as disaster. Buy the cheapest box you find, opensuse doesn't deserve
> >> better. Or stay with a mobile phone.
> >>
> >> If you think I am angry about that, you guessed absolutely right.
>
> ...
>
> > Sorry, but the generalization here is nonsense. I did install ( recently,
> > on a couple of recent laptops with dual grahics ) and albeit needing some
> > tinkering, it works fine. Unless my customers do not report
> > non-functional laptops, which I doubt.
>
> Ok, my rant was hard, I know. But having my laptop with non-working
> And yes, I know one should not empty it's "overcooking pan" on this
> list. I always try to avoid it. But as this affects me so much, I just
> couldn't. Sorry.
No problem. Questions:
- Is your user a member of the bumblebee group ( if existing )
- Ditto of the video group
- Do the packages re. Bumblebee install properly?
- Is running stuff on the Intel an issue?
- Do the NVIDIA kernel modules build properly?
Mind, the laptops I was speaking of are not available, they're customer's
machines.
--
Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht
openSUSE Board Member
openSUSE Forums Team
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org
To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07.05.2018 20:58, Knurpht @ openSUSE wrote:
Op maandag 7 mei 2018 20:51:24 CEST schreef Daniel Bauer:
The "double-gpu's" with nvidia ("optimus") do *not* work on opensuse. It is as disaster. Buy the cheapest box you find, opensuse doesn't deserve better. Or stay with a mobile phone. ...
Sorry, but the generalization here is nonsense. I did install ( recently, on a couple of recent laptops with dual grahics ) and albeit needing some tinkering, it works fine. Unless my customers do not report non-functional laptops, which I doubt.
Ok, my rant was hard, I know. But having my laptop with non-working
No problem. Questions: - Is your user a member of the bumblebee group ( if existing )
No. I never uses bumblebee, but suse-prime which simply switches (switched...) between the two graphic cards. bumblebee was never on my screen, first because of complicated handling (need to start programs from console instead of a click in dolphin - with many images to click and issue; second because of the overhead of kind of running two X's at the same time)
- Ditto of the video group
Wasn't. I added me now to the video group.
- Do the packages re. Bumblebee install properly?
not installed, see above.
- Is running stuff on the Intel an issue?
Yes. Power is not enough for high-res videos (ok, then I dont watch videos) but important: in VirtualBox, runnig win, there is a very strong delay in all graphics, images load very slow, staying unsharp for several seconds, changes on the images in the software take long and cause the screen to flicker for a moment). This happened also before using intel, but everything run fine using nvidia.
- Do the NVIDIA kernel modules build properly?
Yes
Mind, the laptops I was speaking of are not available, they're customer's machines.
-- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona https://www.patreon.com/danielbauer http://www.daniel-bauer.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Daniel Bauer wrote:
On 07.05.2018 17:47, Knurpht @ openSUSE wrote:
Op maandag 7 mei 2018 17:39:29 CEST schreef Daniel Bauer:
On 06.05.2018 15:32, Koenraad Lelong wrote:
Hi,
I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ? ...
The "double-gpu's" with nvidia ("optimus") do *not* work on opensuse. It is as disaster. Buy the cheapest box you find, opensuse doesn't deserve better. Or stay with a mobile phone.
If you think I am angry about that, you guessed absolutely right.
...
Sorry, but the generalization here is nonsense. I did install ( recently, on a couple of recent laptops with dual grahics ) and albeit needing some tinkering, it works fine. Unless my customers do not report non-functional laptops, which I doubt.
Ok, my rant was hard, I know. But having my laptop with non-working nvidia is nonsense, too. Expensive nonsense.
It was only too easy to read your frustration between the lines. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (17.4°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* Daniel Bauer <linux@daniel-bauer.com> [05-07-18 14:53]:
On 07.05.2018 17:47, Knurpht @ openSUSE wrote:
Op maandag 7 mei 2018 17:39:29 CEST schreef Daniel Bauer:
On 06.05.2018 15:32, Koenraad Lelong wrote:
Hi,
I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ? ...
The "double-gpu's" with nvidia ("optimus") do *not* work on opensuse. It is as disaster. Buy the cheapest box you find, opensuse doesn't deserve better. Or stay with a mobile phone.
If you think I am angry about that, you guessed absolutely right.
...
Sorry, but the generalization here is nonsense. I did install ( recently, on a couple of recent laptops with dual grahics ) and albeit needing some tinkering, it works fine. Unless my customers do not report non-functional laptops, which I doubt.
Ok, my rant was hard, I know. But having my laptop with non-working nvidia is nonsense, too. Expensive nonsense. The change - what ever it was - that made switching from intel to nvidia impossible, causes me great problems every single day. It's an important problem for me and I lost nerves because right now I had to work some hours with this half-baked intel solution. Things that would have gone much faster if optimus worked.
I was searching for help on this list. I have filed a bug report with all details I could imagine to be helpful. ( https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1088287 ) I was searching google for many hours, trying what ever I could find.
No, nvidia does not run on my laptop.
If you (and Peter) say it works on your laptops I would be *extremely* interested on how to achieve this, too.
And yes, I know one should not empty it's "overcooking pan" on this list. I always try to avoid it. But as this affects me so much, I just couldn't. Sorry.
not an excuse. you failed to do your due diligence when selecting the laptop for your chosen operating environment. so your frustration with opensuse is really self inflicted. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07.05.2018 21:43, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Daniel Bauer <linux@daniel-bauer.com> [05-07-18 14:53]:
On 07.05.2018 17:47, Knurpht @ openSUSE wrote:
Op maandag 7 mei 2018 17:39:29 CEST schreef Daniel Bauer:
On 06.05.2018 15:32, Koenraad Lelong wrote:
Hi,
I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ? ...
The "double-gpu's" with nvidia ("optimus") do *not* work on opensuse. It is as disaster. Buy the cheapest box you find, opensuse doesn't deserve better. Or stay with a mobile phone.
If you think I am angry about that, you guessed absolutely right.
...
Sorry, but the generalization here is nonsense. I did install ( recently, on a couple of recent laptops with dual grahics ) and albeit needing some tinkering, it works fine. Unless my customers do not report non-functional laptops, which I doubt.
Ok, my rant was hard, I know. But having my laptop with non-working nvidia is nonsense, too. Expensive nonsense. The change - what ever it was - that made switching from intel to nvidia impossible, causes me great problems every single day. It's an important problem for me and I lost nerves because right now I had to work some hours with this half-baked intel solution. Things that would have gone much faster if optimus worked.
I was searching for help on this list. I have filed a bug report with all details I could imagine to be helpful. ( https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1088287 ) I was searching google for many hours, trying what ever I could find.
No, nvidia does not run on my laptop.
If you (and Peter) say it works on your laptops I would be *extremely* interested on how to achieve this, too.
And yes, I know one should not empty it's "overcooking pan" on this list. I always try to avoid it. But as this affects me so much, I just couldn't. Sorry.
not an excuse. you failed to do your due diligence when selecting the laptop for your chosen operating environment. so your frustration with opensuse is really self inflicted.
As I do not have the ability to look into the future I could not know that something that was working perfectly suddenly would stop working. When I bought the laptop it *did* work. So my frustration comes out of my lack of knowing what functions will be cut off in future. Must I be happy if the mouse still works after the next "upgrade", or will I be an idiot to rely on something that may not work anymore in future? -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona https://www.patreon.com/danielbauer http://www.daniel-bauer.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* Daniel Bauer <linux@daniel-bauer.com> [05-07-18 17:14]:
On 07.05.2018 21:43, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Daniel Bauer <linux@daniel-bauer.com> [05-07-18 14:53]:
On 07.05.2018 17:47, Knurpht @ openSUSE wrote:
Op maandag 7 mei 2018 17:39:29 CEST schreef Daniel Bauer:
On 06.05.2018 15:32, Koenraad Lelong wrote:
Hi,
I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ? ...
The "double-gpu's" with nvidia ("optimus") do *not* work on opensuse. It is as disaster. Buy the cheapest box you find, opensuse doesn't deserve better. Or stay with a mobile phone.
If you think I am angry about that, you guessed absolutely right.
...
Sorry, but the generalization here is nonsense. I did install ( recently, on a couple of recent laptops with dual grahics ) and albeit needing some tinkering, it works fine. Unless my customers do not report non-functional laptops, which I doubt.
Ok, my rant was hard, I know. But having my laptop with non-working nvidia is nonsense, too. Expensive nonsense. The change - what ever it was - that made switching from intel to nvidia impossible, causes me great problems every single day. It's an important problem for me and I lost nerves because right now I had to work some hours with this half-baked intel solution. Things that would have gone much faster if optimus worked.
I was searching for help on this list. I have filed a bug report with all details I could imagine to be helpful. ( https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1088287 ) I was searching google for many hours, trying what ever I could find.
No, nvidia does not run on my laptop.
If you (and Peter) say it works on your laptops I would be *extremely* interested on how to achieve this, too.
And yes, I know one should not empty it's "overcooking pan" on this list. I always try to avoid it. But as this affects me so much, I just couldn't. Sorry.
not an excuse. you failed to do your due diligence when selecting the laptop for your chosen operating environment. so your frustration with opensuse is really self inflicted.
As I do not have the ability to look into the future I could not know that something that was working perfectly suddenly would stop working.
When I bought the laptop it *did* work.
with leap 15.x?
So my frustration comes out of my lack of knowing what functions will be cut off in future. Must I be happy if the mouse still works after the next "upgrade", or will I be an idiot to rely on something that may not work anymore in future?
install 42.3 as it does work there. you are only making excuses for not taking care. you do have a choice of which version of openSUSE (which you prefer not to use, but fail to move away) you install. and perhaps the problem you refer will be solved at some point in the future. I would bet so. you *can* solve your problem or buy equipment that works with your choices. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07.05.2018 23:19, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Daniel Bauer <linux@daniel-bauer.com> [05-07-18 17:14]:
On 07.05.2018 21:43, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Daniel Bauer <linux@daniel-bauer.com> [05-07-18 14:53]:
On 07.05.2018 17:47, Knurpht @ openSUSE wrote:
Op maandag 7 mei 2018 17:39:29 CEST schreef Daniel Bauer:
On 06.05.2018 15:32, Koenraad Lelong wrote: > Hi, > > I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is > there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ? ...
The "double-gpu's" with nvidia ("optimus") do *not* work on opensuse. It is as disaster. Buy the cheapest box you find, opensuse doesn't deserve better. Or stay with a mobile phone.
If you think I am angry about that, you guessed absolutely right.
...
Sorry, but the generalization here is nonsense. I did install ( recently, on a couple of recent laptops with dual grahics ) and albeit needing some tinkering, it works fine. Unless my customers do not report non-functional laptops, which I doubt.
Ok, my rant was hard, I know. But having my laptop with non-working nvidia is nonsense, too. Expensive nonsense. The change - what ever it was - that made switching from intel to nvidia impossible, causes me great problems every single day. It's an important problem for me and I lost nerves because right now I had to work some hours with this half-baked intel solution. Things that would have gone much faster if optimus worked.
I was searching for help on this list. I have filed a bug report with all details I could imagine to be helpful. ( https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1088287 ) I was searching google for many hours, trying what ever I could find.
No, nvidia does not run on my laptop.
If you (and Peter) say it works on your laptops I would be *extremely* interested on how to achieve this, too.
And yes, I know one should not empty it's "overcooking pan" on this list. I always try to avoid it. But as this affects me so much, I just couldn't. Sorry.
not an excuse. you failed to do your due diligence when selecting the laptop for your chosen operating environment. so your frustration with opensuse is really self inflicted.
As I do not have the ability to look into the future I could not know that something that was working perfectly suddenly would stop working.
When I bought the laptop it *did* work.
with leap 15.x?
no, with 42.1
So my frustration comes out of my lack of knowing what functions will be cut off in future. Must I be happy if the mouse still works after the next "upgrade", or will I be an idiot to rely on something that may not work anymore in future?
install 42.3 as it does work there.
No, it does not. Not at all. 42.3 is what I have installed.
you are only making excuses for not taking care. you do have a choice of which version of openSUSE (which you prefer not to use, but fail to move away) you install. and perhaps the problem you refer will be solved at some point in the future. I would bet so.
you *can* solve your problem
If I could I would. or buy equipment that works with your
choices.
Buy a new laptop for each new release of opensuse? Well, cool solution and a hot hint. Thanks a lot, very helpful. -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona https://www.patreon.com/danielbauer http://www.daniel-bauer.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* Daniel Bauer <linux@daniel-bauer.com> [05-08-18 05:02]:
On 07.05.2018 23:19, Patrick Shanahan wrote: [...]
you *can* solve your problem
If I could I would.
or buy equipment that works with your
choices.
Buy a new laptop for each new release of opensuse?
no, buy equipment that works with the distro/version you wish to run. if you update to newer version, make backups or recovery plans to allow you to utilize your expensive commodity when unexpected problems arise.
Well, cool solution and a hot hint. Thanks a lot, very helpful.
well, you can blame everyone else who donates their time and labor and appreciates your caustic comments but your lack of planning is *your* fault, not the rest of the world's. your part in the expensive operating system you purchased is to improve and to solve problems it has, but ... you live with your mistakes, but learn from them. backup, backup, backup or complain. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 08.05.2018 13:46, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Daniel Bauer <linux@daniel-bauer.com> [05-08-18 05:02]:
So, this goes off-topic because you're annoyed by my tone in the first post, still...
Buy a new laptop for each new release of opensuse?
no, buy equipment that works with the distro/version you wish to run.
I bought a machine that perfectly worked with the distro/version that was actual at that time (13.2 if I remember correctly). I use suse since 6.x and never had the issue that something that worked before stopped working (except kmail, which at least had alternatives)
if you update to newer version, make backups or recovery plans to allow you to utilize your expensive commodity when unexpected problems arise.
This is a laptop I use on traveling, using wifi's of hotels and similar. I believe for security reasons it is quite important to keep it up-to-date, at least with a release that still receives security updates. So the was *no* choice to go back to an older release, unless I want to risk security deficits. Due to the nature of my work I cannot allow that.
Well, cool solution and a hot hint. Thanks a lot, very helpful.
well, you can blame everyone else who donates their time and labor and appreciates your caustic comments
I did one caustic comment. I asked for pardon.
but your lack of planning is *your* fault, not the rest of the world's. your part in the expensive operating system you purchased is to improve and to solve problems it has, but ...
I still think it is the fault of the operating system when some things that get common in the world like intel/nvidia optimus on laptops, stop working. I understand that it sometimes takes time until something gets through to linux and I am aware of that when buying a machine. But when it works and then does not work anymore *without* the alternative to goback to another /still maintained/ release that works, then it is a problem that should not arise.
you live with your mistakes, but learn from them. backup, backup, backup
For the reasons told, there is no possibility to go back to backup.
or complain.
Or clearly warn people from buying a machine with intel/nvidia optimus until opensuse has resolved the problem and comes back to a working solution. That's what I did. Although regrettably in an inadequate tone, I agree, but the core of my message remains true: It does not work with a maintained release of opensuse. -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona https://www.patreon.com/danielbauer http://www.daniel-bauer.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2018-05-07 21:43, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Daniel Bauer <linux@daniel-bauer.com> [05-07-18 14:53]:
On 07.05.2018 17:47, Knurpht @ openSUSE wrote:
Op maandag 7 mei 2018 17:39:29 CEST schreef Daniel Bauer:
On 06.05.2018 15:32, Koenraad Lelong wrote:
Hi,
I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ? ...
The "double-gpu's" with nvidia ("optimus") do *not* work on opensuse. It is as disaster. Buy the cheapest box you find, opensuse doesn't deserve better. Or stay with a mobile phone.
If you think I am angry about that, you guessed absolutely right.
...
Sorry, but the generalization here is nonsense. I did install ( recently, on a couple of recent laptops with dual grahics ) and albeit needing some tinkering, it works fine. Unless my customers do not report non-functional laptops, which I doubt.
Ok, my rant was hard, I know. But having my laptop with non-working nvidia is nonsense, too. Expensive nonsense. The change - what ever it was - that made switching from intel to nvidia impossible, causes me great problems every single day. It's an important problem for me and I lost nerves because right now I had to work some hours with this half-baked intel solution. Things that would have gone much faster if optimus worked.
I was searching for help on this list. I have filed a bug report with all details I could imagine to be helpful. ( https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1088287 ) I was searching google for many hours, trying what ever I could find.
No, nvidia does not run on my laptop.
If you (and Peter) say it works on your laptops I would be *extremely* interested on how to achieve this, too.
And yes, I know one should not empty it's "overcooking pan" on this list. I always try to avoid it. But as this affects me so much, I just couldn't. Sorry.
not an excuse. you failed to do your due diligence when selecting the laptop for your chosen operating environment. so your frustration with opensuse is really self inflicted.
Wrong. His machine works perfectly with leap 42.3. It broke with 15.0 -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [05-07-18 17:20]:
On 2018-05-07 21:43, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Daniel Bauer <linux@daniel-bauer.com> [05-07-18 14:53]:
On 07.05.2018 17:47, Knurpht @ openSUSE wrote:
Op maandag 7 mei 2018 17:39:29 CEST schreef Daniel Bauer:
On 06.05.2018 15:32, Koenraad Lelong wrote:
Hi,
I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ? ...
The "double-gpu's" with nvidia ("optimus") do *not* work on opensuse. It is as disaster. Buy the cheapest box you find, opensuse doesn't deserve better. Or stay with a mobile phone.
If you think I am angry about that, you guessed absolutely right.
...
Sorry, but the generalization here is nonsense. I did install ( recently, on a couple of recent laptops with dual grahics ) and albeit needing some tinkering, it works fine. Unless my customers do not report non-functional laptops, which I doubt.
Ok, my rant was hard, I know. But having my laptop with non-working nvidia is nonsense, too. Expensive nonsense. The change - what ever it was - that made switching from intel to nvidia impossible, causes me great problems every single day. It's an important problem for me and I lost nerves because right now I had to work some hours with this half-baked intel solution. Things that would have gone much faster if optimus worked.
I was searching for help on this list. I have filed a bug report with all details I could imagine to be helpful. ( https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1088287 ) I was searching google for many hours, trying what ever I could find.
No, nvidia does not run on my laptop.
If you (and Peter) say it works on your laptops I would be *extremely* interested on how to achieve this, too.
And yes, I know one should not empty it's "overcooking pan" on this list. I always try to avoid it. But as this affects me so much, I just couldn't. Sorry.
not an excuse. you failed to do your due diligence when selecting the laptop for your chosen operating environment. so your frustration with opensuse is really self inflicted.
Wrong. His machine works perfectly with leap 42.3. It broke with 15.0
yes, *he* broke it by installing 15.0 which he can solve by returning to 42.3. he does have a solution but chooses to rant here instead. he just said so. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07.05.2018 23:21, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [05-07-18 17:20]:
On 2018-05-07 21:43, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Daniel Bauer <linux@daniel-bauer.com> [05-07-18 14:53]:
On 07.05.2018 17:47, Knurpht @ openSUSE wrote:
Op maandag 7 mei 2018 17:39:29 CEST schreef Daniel Bauer:
On 06.05.2018 15:32, Koenraad Lelong wrote: > Hi, > > I'm researching for a new laptop. I think the main issue is video. Is > there a manufacturer I should avoid (NVidia/AMD) ? ...
The "double-gpu's" with nvidia ("optimus") do *not* work on opensuse. It is as disaster. Buy the cheapest box you find, opensuse doesn't deserve better. Or stay with a mobile phone.
If you think I am angry about that, you guessed absolutely right.
...
Sorry, but the generalization here is nonsense. I did install ( recently, on a couple of recent laptops with dual grahics ) and albeit needing some tinkering, it works fine. Unless my customers do not report non-functional laptops, which I doubt.
Ok, my rant was hard, I know. But having my laptop with non-working nvidia is nonsense, too. Expensive nonsense. The change - what ever it was - that made switching from intel to nvidia impossible, causes me great problems every single day. It's an important problem for me and I lost nerves because right now I had to work some hours with this half-baked intel solution. Things that would have gone much faster if optimus worked.
I was searching for help on this list. I have filed a bug report with all details I could imagine to be helpful. ( https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1088287 ) I was searching google for many hours, trying what ever I could find.
No, nvidia does not run on my laptop.
If you (and Peter) say it works on your laptops I would be *extremely* interested on how to achieve this, too.
And yes, I know one should not empty it's "overcooking pan" on this list. I always try to avoid it. But as this affects me so much, I just couldn't. Sorry.
not an excuse. you failed to do your due diligence when selecting the laptop for your chosen operating environment. so your frustration with opensuse is really self inflicted.
Wrong. His machine works perfectly with leap 42.3. It broke with 15.0
yes, *he* broke it by installing 15.0 which he can solve by returning to 42.3. he does have a solution but chooses to rant here instead. he just said so.
Not exactly. It run on 42.1 but does not on 42.3 Don't want to reinstall 42.1 which is unmaintained now. -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona https://www.patreon.com/danielbauer http://www.daniel-bauer.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
07.05.2018 21:51, Daniel Bauer пишет:
Ok, my rant was hard, I know. But having my laptop with non-working nvidia is nonsense, too. Expensive nonsense. The change - what ever it was - that made switching from intel to nvidia impossible,
Well, as I recently tried the same on Ubuntu (with mixed success, nvidia-prime worked by vdpau did not, and that was the only reason I considered switch to nvidia) I tested it using Leap 15 live GNOME image (updated to current versions including kernel) and drivers from nVidia openSUSE repository. I have HD5500 and GF830M muxless notebook with all outputs connected to Intel. Well, guess what - it works :) Attached are actual files I used (partially based on nvidia-prime Ubuntu package). Additionally you will definitely want to enable modesetting in nvidia_drm, otherwise tearing makes any work impossible. Some comments 1. Intel driver did not work. Everything was started but no output ever appeared, I was left with empty screen with mouse cursor. modesetting (for iGPU) worked. 2. Leap 15 defaults to wayland (at least in GNOME version). As far as I can tell there is no way to use muxless Optimus with wayland - mechanism to pass images between two GPU is Xorg-specific, wayland would need something similar ... except wayland is protocol, so *every* implementation of wayland composer (GNOME, KDE, ...) must implement support separately. Which is certainly an improvement over Xorg case ... So you will need to disable wayland (/etc/gdm/custom.conf in case of GDM). 3. nVidia kernel driver must be loaded before Xorg starts. Otherwise apparently user space components attempt to load it, but somehow it results in kernel oops. 4. I have no idea whether each individual parameter in xorg.conf snippet is required; this is what Ubuntu generates and it actually worked so I simply used it. Bonus point is that VDPAU actually worked in Leap while it did not in Ubuntu.
Le 09/05/2018 à 12:03, Andrei Borzenkov a écrit :
openSUSE repository. I have HD5500 and GF830M muxless notebook with all outputs connected to Intel.
Well, guess what - it works :) Attached are actual files I used
I have similar hardware and tried to make it works with opensource nvidia driver. Some weeks ago it didn't works well and I left itas it was. more recently, at the occasion of a discussion here, I tried again and the config seemed to works pretty well. I try to use it mostly for script use (conversion between video formats) however it's very difficult to see what works exactly. The bumblebee plasmoid (plasma5/kde, 42.3) is always on, even when not working really, with optirun xxx
glxgears Running synchronized to the vertical refresh. The framerate should be approximately the same as the monitor refresh rate. 304 frames in 5.0 seconds = 60.642 FPS 301 frames in 5.0 seconds = 60.058 FPS
jdd@linux-owxt:~> optirun glxgears Running synchronized to the vertical refresh. The framerate should be approximately the same as the monitor refresh rate. 6374 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1274.752 FPS 6368 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1273.551 FPS 6375 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1274.884 FPS any other way to test? (other than glx...) thanks jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
09.05.2018 13:35, jdd@dodin.org пишет:
Le 09/05/2018 à 12:03, Andrei Borzenkov a écrit :
openSUSE repository. I have HD5500 and GF830M muxless notebook with all outputs connected to Intel.
Well, guess what - it works :) Attached are actual files I used
I have similar hardware and tried to make it works with opensource nvidia driver. Some weeks ago it didn't works well and I left itas it was.
more recently, at the occasion of a discussion here, I tried again and the config seemed to works pretty well.
I try to use it mostly for script use (conversion between video formats)
however it's very difficult to see what works exactly. The bumblebee plasmoid (plasma5/kde, 42.3) is always on, even when not working really, with optirun xxx
glxgears Running synchronized to the vertical refresh. The framerate should be approximately the same as the monitor refresh rate. 304 frames in 5.0 seconds = 60.642 FPS 301 frames in 5.0 seconds = 60.058 FPS
jdd@linux-owxt:~> optirun glxgears Running synchronized to the vertical refresh. The framerate should be approximately the same as the monitor refresh rate. 6374 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1274.752 FPS 6368 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1273.551 FPS 6375 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1274.884 FPS
any other way to test? (other than glx...)
How are open source drivers or bumblebee related to this (sub-)thread? If you want to discuss them, start new one. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 09/05/2018 à 13:59, Andrei Borzenkov a écrit :
How are open source drivers or bumblebee related to this (sub-)thread? If you want to discuss them, start new one.
same fonction, same hardware and probably same tests... jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2018-05-09 12:03, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
07.05.2018 21:51, Daniel Bauer пишет:
Ok, my rant was hard, I know. But having my laptop with non-working nvidia is nonsense, too. Expensive nonsense. The change - what ever it was - that made switching from intel to nvidia impossible,
Well, as I recently tried the same on Ubuntu (with mixed success, nvidia-prime worked by vdpau did not, and that was the only reason I considered switch to nvidia) I tested it using Leap 15 live GNOME image (updated to current versions including kernel) and drivers from nVidia openSUSE repository. I have HD5500 and GF830M muxless notebook with all outputs connected to Intel.
Well, guess what - it works :) Attached are actual files I used (partially based on nvidia-prime Ubuntu package). Additionally you will definitely want to enable modesetting in nvidia_drm, otherwise tearing makes any work impossible.
Some comments
1. Intel driver did not work. Everything was started but no output ever appeared, I was left with empty screen with mouse cursor. modesetting (for iGPU) worked.
2. Leap 15 defaults to wayland (at least in GNOME version). As far as I can tell there is no way to use muxless Optimus with wayland - mechanism to pass images between two GPU is Xorg-specific, wayland would need something similar ... except wayland is protocol, so *every* implementation of wayland composer (GNOME, KDE, ...) must implement support separately. Which is certainly an improvement over Xorg case ...
So you will need to disable wayland (/etc/gdm/custom.conf in case of GDM).
3. nVidia kernel driver must be loaded before Xorg starts. Otherwise apparently user space components attempt to load it, but somehow it results in kernel oops.
4. I have no idea whether each individual parameter in xorg.conf snippet is required; this is what Ubuntu generates and it actually worked so I simply used it.
Bonus point is that VDPAU actually worked in Leap while it did not in Ubuntu.
So you end with a machine that can not switch intel-nvidia on the fly, the instant you remove the power plug and start running on battery or vice versa, which is the point of having dual hardware. Thus this is hardware to be avoided, IMO. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
Daniel Bauer wrote:
The "double-gpu's" with nvidia ("optimus") do *not* work on opensuse. It is as disaster. Buy the cheapest box you find, opensuse doesn't deserve better. Or stay with a mobile phone.
Strange that I'm using mine (Lenovo T460p, HD530/940MX) without issues since almost two years. But given your tone I don't really feel like deepening the discussion... :o -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (20)
-
Andrei Borzenkov -
Carlos E. R. -
Daniel Bauer -
David C. Rankin -
David T-G -
Felix Miata -
Florian Gleixner -
Hagen Buliwyf -
James Knott -
jdd＠dodin.org -
John Andersen -
Kaigue -
Karl Sinn -
Knurpht ＠ openSUSE -
Koenraad Lelong -
Nick LeRoy -
Patrick Shanahan -
Per Jessen -
Peter Suetterlin -
Philippe Andersson