[opensuse] 15.2 Beta Installer -- Huge OverBloat
Devs, Installing 15.2 from the net-install with the "Generic Desktop" entry, single-partition ext4 and language English, the installer selected nearly 3G of packages to install by default. I don't have any btrfs, so I don't need all the snapperd stuff, et... I am using English, I don't want the huge plethora of Chinese and Japanese fonts installed. I don't want a full ruby install, etc... and on and on. Why is the Generic Desktop so bloated with packages? In the past there was a "Minimal X Install" using TWM that did just about exactly what I wanted and I envisioned "Generic Desktop" doing, but no, this thing is installing almost the entire DVD (even tough I'm using the NET installer) There is Qt5frameworks, etc... Is there no longer a "Minimal X Install" -- that does just that a "minimal" install? What is the better option? Just choose the "Server" install and build from there (I've done that with 15.0 and there were so many missing dependencies on X install it was a challenge, (xcb/xevent/pinentry, etc...) Recommendations? Server Install and try again? -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op maandag 1 juni 2020 22:50:52 CEST schreef David C. Rankin:
Recommendations? Server Install and try again? No, bugreport. No devs follow this list, ranting here won't help. Bugreports will.
-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/01/2020 03:56 PM, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
Op maandag 1 juni 2020 22:50:52 CEST schreef David C. Rankin:
Recommendations? Server Install and try again? No, bugreport. No devs follow this list, ranting here won't help. Bugreports will.
Will do. Thanks. Sad, we used to be one community where the devs were actually here on the list. Ignore following Virtualbox Post then. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op maandag 1 juni 2020 23:27:43 CEST schreef David C. Rankin:
On 06/01/2020 03:56 PM, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
Op maandag 1 juni 2020 22:50:52 CEST schreef David C. Rankin:
Recommendations? Server Install and try again?
No, bugreport. No devs follow this list, ranting here won't help. Bugreports will.
Will do. Thanks.
Sad, we used to be one community where the devs were actually here on the list.
Ignore following Virtualbox Post then. The devs have left this list long ago, due to "Huge Overbloat". :D, And given what I see on this list, I can't blame them. Almost any thread goes everywhere, with lots of historical experiences and completely off-topic conversations. This is by no means the support list it ever was. Example: the 135+ post long thread "Why swap". The recent one on some phoronix article. This has become an 'anything goes' list. My 2 cents.
-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/01/2020 04:48 PM, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
Ignore following Virtualbox Post then. The devs have left this list long ago, due to "Huge Overbloat". :D, And given what I see on this list, I can't blame them. Almost any thread goes everywhere, with lots of historical experiences and completely off-topic conversations. This is by no means the support list it ever was. Example: the 135+ post long thread "Why swap". The recent one on some phoronix article. This has become an 'anything goes' list. My 2 cents.
Yep, that's when the community went through its rabbit-pellet list fragmentation. It was a lot simpler in the old days just to tell somebody to move the conversation to the OT list. We could probably combine all but factory and packaging again and simplify things. List volume has dropped from 300+ to about 3. The over-install bug is: https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1172363 -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Yep, that's when the community went through its rabbit-pellet list fragmentation. It was a lot simpler in the old days just to tell somebody to move the conversation to the OT list.
We could probably combine all but factory and packaging again and simplify things. List volume has dropped from 300+ to about 3. Nope. That hasn't worked. The regulars on this list think differently. And
Op dinsdag 2 juni 2020 00:08:32 CEST schreef David C. Rankin: the result is that the rest of the community doesn't care anymore and simply unsubscribes ( best case ) or ignores this list. The only reason I care and post anyway is that the list carries the o@o.o name. -- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/01/2020 05:28 PM, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
Yep, that's when the community went through its rabbit-pellet list fragmentation. It was a lot simpler in the old days just to tell somebody to move the conversation to the OT list.
We could probably combine all but factory and packaging again and simplify things. List volume has dropped from 300+ to about 3. Nope. That hasn't worked. The regulars on this list think differently. And
Op dinsdag 2 juni 2020 00:08:32 CEST schreef David C. Rankin: the result is that the rest of the community doesn't care anymore and simply unsubscribes ( best case ) or ignores this list. The only reason I care and post anyway is that the list carries the o@o.o name.
I agree, but would be a bit more solution oriented. This list was the community for so long, from boxed-sets, 1.44M floppy installers, before Novell, before openSUSE, before the Microsoft deal, before ringed build & QA, before Microfocus and through it all until the list was fragmented -- and it wasn't anymore. I think we should care beyond just the fact it carries the o@o.o listname (that seems a bit lackluster). If we care at all we should be asking "What can be done to make it better, restore the community sense that made SuSE/openSUSE into what it is?" That's what's missing. From that standpoint, pairing down the multitude of lists is a good start. You shouldn't need a lookup-table to figure out what o.o list to post to. Keep the development and specialty lists factory, packaging, (and whatever other single topic technical or QA list) separate so the discussion is limited to topic. The remainder can all be brought under the o@o.o list. At least then new users will know where to go. The biggest issue with the fragmentation is a user directory from the wiki or mailing list page to go post under so_and_so@o.o and the post becomes a question looking for an answer on a list where nobody's home. The list volume is low enough (to non-existent on some days) that consolidation won't lead to a volume issue. At least then folks would know where to post and would likely receive an answer. Just my $0.02. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 6/2/20 6:22 AM, David C. Rankin wrote:
If we care at all we should be asking "What can be done to make it better, restore the community sense that made SuSE/openSUSE into what it is?" That's what's missing.
From that standpoint, pairing down the multitude of lists is a good start. You shouldn't need a lookup-table to figure out what o.o list to post to. Keep the development and specialty lists factory, packaging, (and whatever other single topic technical or QA list) separate so the discussion is limited to topic. The remainder can all be brought under theo@o.o list.
At least then new users will know where to go. The biggest issue with the fragmentation is a user directory from the wiki or mailing list page to go post underso_and_so@o.o and the post becomes a question looking for an answer on a list where nobody's home.
The list volume is low enough (to non-existent on some days) that consolidation won't lead to a volume issue. At least then folks would know where to post and would likely receive an answer.
Just my $0.02.
... - Thank you, David : you say this SO Right ..... rgds -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
Op dinsdag 2 juni 2020 00:08:32 CEST schreef David C. Rankin:
Yep, that's when the community went through its rabbit-pellet list fragmentation. It was a lot simpler in the old days just to tell somebody to move the conversation to the OT list.
We could probably combine all but factory and packaging again and simplify things. List volume has dropped from 300+ to about 3.
Nope. That hasn't worked. The regulars on this list think differently. And the result is that the rest of the community doesn't care anymore and simply unsubscribes ( best case ) or ignores this list.
This topic would probably be better off on e.g. opensuse-project, but as the thread started here: opensuse-support was born on 28 May 2018, hence it celebrated its 2nd birthday only just last week. <mailing list admin's cap on> opensuse@o.o has six times more subscribers than opensuse-support@o.o. opensuse@o.o has six times more traffic than opensuse-support@o.o. </cap off> <plain opensuse user's cap on> I remain opposed to this wholly unnecessary splitting of an already fragmented community. I also don't think the objectives stated at the time of creation have been achieved, at all. </cap off> -- Per Jessen, Zürich (14.6°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Am 02.06.2020 um 08:42 schrieb Per Jessen:
This topic would probably be better off on e.g. opensuse-project, but as the thread started here:
opensuse-support was born on 28 May 2018, hence it celebrated its 2nd birthday only just last week.
<mailing list admin's cap on> opensuse@o.o has six times more subscribers than opensuse-support@o.o. opensuse@o.o has six times more traffic than opensuse-support@o.o. </cap off>
there is a "opensuse-support" mailing list? I'm serious: this is the first time I hear about that list - and I've been with the openSUSE "world" since ... i dunno, before S.u.S.E. in Nürnberg even MADE their own specific linux flavor. Cheers MH -- Mathias Homann Mathias.Homann@openSUSE.org Jabber (XMPP): lemmy@tuxonline.tech IRC: [Lemmy] on freenode and ircnet (bouncer active) telegram: https://telegram.me/lemmy98 keybase: https://keybase.io/lemmy gpg key fingerprint: 8029 2240 F4DD 7776 E7D2 C042 6B8E 029E 13F2 C102 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 02/06/2020 à 08:48, Mathias Homann a écrit :
there is a "opensuse-support" mailing list?
I'm serious: this is the first time I hear about that list - and I've been with the openSUSE "world" since ... i dunno, before S.u.S.E. in Nürnberg even MADE their own specific linux flavor.
but you don't read what you don't think interesting, as I do... splitting lists was good in time where internet connection was rare and expensive. it's no mor in europe, but elsewhere? jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Mathias Homann wrote:
Am 02.06.2020 um 08:42 schrieb Per Jessen:
This topic would probably be better off on e.g. opensuse-project, but as the thread started here:
opensuse-support was born on 28 May 2018, hence it celebrated its 2nd birthday only just last week.
<mailing list admin's cap on> opensuse@o.o has six times more subscribers than opensuse-support@o.o. opensuse@o.o has six times more traffic than opensuse-support@o.o. </cap off>
there is a "opensuse-support" mailing list?
I'm serious: this is the first time I hear about that list - and I've been with the openSUSE "world" since ... i dunno, before S.u.S.E. in Nürnberg even MADE their own specific linux flavor.
As I wrote above, "opensuse-support" has only just turned two years old, and maybe you missed out on the announcements back in May 2018. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (20.1°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 02 Jun 2020 11:26:23 +0200 Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Mathias Homann wrote:
Am 02.06.2020 um 08:42 schrieb Per Jessen:
This topic would probably be better off on e.g. opensuse-project, but as the thread started here:
opensuse-support was born on 28 May 2018, hence it celebrated its 2nd birthday only just last week.
<mailing list admin's cap on> opensuse@o.o has six times more subscribers than opensuse-support@o.o. opensuse@o.o has six times more traffic than opensuse-support@o.o. </cap off>
there is a "opensuse-support" mailing list?
I'm serious: this is the first time I hear about that list - and I've been with the openSUSE "world" since ... i dunno, before S.u.S.E. in Nürnberg even MADE their own specific linux flavor.
As I wrote above, "opensuse-support" has only just turned two years old, and maybe you missed out on the announcements back in May 2018.
I think the elephant in the room is that there is also a forum and I suspect that most of the traffic that used to go to this list now goes to the forum instead. What are the traffic stats for that? That's fine but I'm an old fogey that happens to prefer a mail list. I do get the impression that one of the things the opensuse community is not very good at is organizing communication to the great unwashed. Mailing lists just for announcements are a great example - why would anybody subscribe to one of those, especially when 90% of announcements are irrelevant. There are a lot of web pages of one kind or another, where it's not clear whether they are 'official' in any sense, nor whether they are up-to-date. Often the biggest clue is when the page starts talking about version 11.2 or somesuch. I frequently find myself in arch doc pages, because they seem to be so much better than opensuse. How do they do that? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 1:56 PM Dave Howorth <dave@howorth.org.uk> wrote:
I frequently find myself in arch doc pages, because they seem to be so much better than opensuse. How do they do that?
Probably because they simply do instead of discussing how others do it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 02/06/2020 06:56, Dave Howorth wrote:
I frequently find myself in arch doc pages, because they seem to be so much better than opensuse.
+1
How do they do that?
Good question. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* David C. Rankin <drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com> [06-01-20 18:12]:
On 06/01/2020 04:48 PM, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
Ignore following Virtualbox Post then. The devs have left this list long ago, due to "Huge Overbloat". :D, And given what I see on this list, I can't blame them. Almost any thread goes everywhere, with lots of historical experiences and completely off-topic conversations. This is by no means the support list it ever was. Example: the 135+ post long thread "Why swap". The recent one on some phoronix article. This has become an 'anything goes' list. My 2 cents.
Yep, that's when the community went through its rabbit-pellet list fragmentation. It was a lot simpler in the old days just to tell somebody to move the conversation to the OT list.
We already have two off-topic lists, this one and Chris' invention, opensuse-offtopic. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/06/2020 23.48, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
Op maandag 1 juni 2020 23:27:43 CEST schreef David C. Rankin:
On 06/01/2020 03:56 PM, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
Op maandag 1 juni 2020 22:50:52 CEST schreef David C. Rankin:
Recommendations? Server Install and try again?
No, bugreport. No devs follow this list, ranting here won't help. Bugreports will.
Will do. Thanks.
Sad, we used to be one community where the devs were actually here on the list.
Ignore following Virtualbox Post then. The devs have left this list long ago, due to "Huge Overbloat". :D, And given what I see on this list, I can't blame them. Almost any thread goes everywhere, with lots of historical experiences and completely off-topic conversations. This is by no means the support list it ever was. Example: the 135+ post long thread "Why swap". The recent one on some phoronix article. This has become an 'anything goes' list. My 2 cents.
But there is a opensuse-support@o.o. mail list, and they could be there. Two decades ago, this mail list had lots of volume, lots of posts. Yet, I remember devs that would notice whenever a thread started with a question about what they maintained and jumped in, ignoring all the other posts. My guess: they used filtering to detect only the posts of interest to them. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Hello, On Mon, 01 Jun 2020, David C. Rankin wrote:
I don't want a full ruby install, etc... and on and on.
YaST needs it. -dnh -- Let's call it an accidental feature. --Larry Wall -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (12)
-
Andrei Borzenkov -
Anton Aylward -
Carlos E. R. -
Dave Howorth -
David C. Rankin -
David Haller -
ellanios82 -
jdd＠dodin.org -
Knurpht-openSUSE -
Mathias Homann -
Patrick Shanahan -
Per Jessen