[opensuse] like acobat reader
can someone help me to find an editor like acrobat reader in linux suse 10.2 0r 10.3? Ugo De Marinis demaini1@gruppobio.191.it -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Ugo De Marinis(191) wrote:
can someone help me to find an editor like acrobat reader in linux suse 10.2 0r 10.3?
Since acrobat reader DOES NOT EDIT anything... could you explain what you mean? Do you want to CREATE pdf documents, or do you just want to look at them? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, Ugo De Marinis(191) wrote:
can someone help me to find an editor like acrobat reader in linux suse 10.2 0r 10.3?
Acrobat Reader itself is available for openSUSE from the openSUSE repositories. However, it is not an *editor* - I assume you refer to the full Adobe Acrobat suite. This one does not have a Linux version. However, you should take a look at "Scribus", if you plan to create PDFs with Forms. To my knowledge, it has some limited PDF editing capabilities as well. Bye, LenZ - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ Lenz Grimmer <lenz@grimmer.com> -o) [ICQ: 160767607 | Jabber: LenZGr@jabber.org] /\\ http://www.lenzg.org/ V_V -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHhcifSVDhKrJykfIRAtmCAKCBiffb5KkVLz1jVbz37QEg/3nvbgCcDkJd v2p3U57jIXkr6WI5sLM9ejo= =pv1v -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Ugo De Marinis(191) wrote:
can someone help me to find an editor like acrobat reader in linux suse 10.2 0r 10.3?
Ugo De Marinis demaini1@gruppobio.191.it
Install "pdftk" it works great from the command line. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Ugo De Marinis(191) schrieb: | can someone help me to find an editor like acrobat reader in linux suse 10.2 | 0r 10.3? Acrobat Reader for Linux ;) - -- All the best, Peter J. N. aedon DESIGNS http://www.hochzeitsbuch.info http://www.hochzeitsbuch.selfip.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHhpC/h8q3OtgoGAwRAoj/AJ9Js6twP+xaijlJJMIUhN0GaVzKwACgh3Fk 1YUtvU4PCXuivqvjGAW/dS0= =pDZP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
peter wrote:
Ugo De Marinis(191) schrieb:
| can someone help me to find an editor like acrobat reader in linux suse 10.2 | 0r 10.3?
Acrobat Reader for Linux ;)
evince is probably safer: Adobe applications are notorious for "phoning home", telling Adobe what you do when, and Adobe is a known bully of the copyright mafia. Additionally, Adobe software tells the authors of some pdf files when you open/read their documents. Kind regards Philippe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Donnerstag, 10. Januar 2008 22:51:48 schrieb Philippe Landau:
evince is probably safer: Adobe applications are notorious for "phoning home", telling Adobe what you do when, and Adobe is a known bully of the copyright mafia. Additionally, Adobe software tells the authors of some pdf files when you open/read their documents. Have any sources for it?
I knew Adobe was calling home, but that a person can request a notification was new to me... (or do you just mean the possibility?) Greetings Michael
On Jan 10, 2008 5:28 PM, Michael Skiba <michael@michael-skiba.de> wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 10. Januar 2008 22:51:48 schrieb Philippe Landau:
evince is probably safer: Adobe applications are notorious for "phoning home", telling Adobe what you do when, and Adobe is a known bully of the copyright mafia. Additionally, Adobe software tells the authors of some pdf files when you open/read their documents. Have any sources for it?
I knew Adobe was calling home, but that a person can request a notification was new to me... (or do you just mean the possibility?)
PDF files can have internal macros to make this happen. I have heard of at least one company that has implemented the logic. Greg -- Greg Freemyer Litigation Triage Solutions Specialist http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregfreemyer First 99 Days Litigation White Paper - http://www.norcrossgroup.com/forms/whitepapers/99%20Days%20whitepaper.pdf The Norcross Group The Intersection of Evidence & Technology http://www.norcrossgroup.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Greg Freemyer wrote:
On Jan 10, 2008 5:28 PM, Michael Skiba <michael@michael-skiba.de> wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 10. Januar 2008 22:51:48 schrieb Philippe Landau:
evince is probably safer: Adobe applications are notorious for "phoning home", telling Adobe what you do when, and Adobe is a known bully of the copyright mafia. Additionally, Adobe software tells the authors of some pdf files when you open/read their documents. Have any sources for it?
I knew Adobe was calling home, but that a person can request a notification was new to me... (or do you just mean the possibility?)
PDF files can have internal macros to make this happen. I have heard of at least one company that has implemented the logic.
Had to rescue the page for the occasion, sorry for the currently unavailable links to helping.net. http://justwars.com/linux/Adobe-Acrobat-Spying-on-Users.html Kind regards Philippe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 10 January 2008 17:02, Philippe Landau wrote:
Greg Freemyer wrote:
On Jan 10, 2008 5:28 PM, Michael Skiba <michael@michael-skiba.de> wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 10. Januar 2008 22:51:48 schrieb Philippe Landau:
evince is probably safer: Adobe applications are notorious for "phoning home", telling Adobe what you do when, and Adobe is a known bully of the copyright mafia. Additionally, Adobe software tells the authors of some pdf files when you open/read their documents.
Have any sources for it?
I knew Adobe was calling home, but that a person can request a notification was new to me... (or do you just mean the possibility?)
PDF files can have internal macros to make this happen. I have heard of at least one company that has implemented the logic.
Had to rescue the page for the occasion, sorry for the currently unavailable links to helping.net. http://justwars.com/linux/Adobe-Acrobat-Spying-on-Users.html
Among the options one can set in Acrobat reader is to specify a proxy which I usually set to 127.0.0.1 to avoid things like this. (I am not paranoid, just don't like the very idea.) Of course, being closed source one has no idea if acrobat reader honors these settings or not. -- Don -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 11 January 2008 02:25:57 Don Raboud wrote:
Among the options one can set in Acrobat reader is to specify a proxy which I usually set to 127.0.0.1 to avoid things like this. (I am not paranoid, just don't like the very idea.) Of course, being closed source one has no idea if acrobat reader honors these settings or not.
Sure one has. Just use wireshark to see what it does. It can't bypass that. No need to sit around guessing, or tell scary stories I have a hunch lots of people already have done that though, and if it did bad things, we would have heard about it by now, a lot louder than vague rumours on mailing lists Anders -- Madness takes its toll -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Anders Johansson wrote:
On Friday 11 January 2008 02:25:57 Don Raboud wrote:
Among the options one can set in Acrobat reader is to specify a proxy which I usually set to 127.0.0.1 to avoid things like this. (I am not paranoid, just don't like the very idea.) Of course, being closed source one has no idea if acrobat reader honors these settings or not.
Sure one has. Just use wireshark to see what it does. It can't bypass that. No need to sit around guessing, or tell scary stories
I have a hunch lots of people already have done that though, and if it did bad things, we would have heard about it by now, a lot louder than vague rumours on mailing lists No need to insult if you follow the provided link there (see below) or do some online research on your own confirming what is now known since over two years. If you don't find good additional resources and don't speak German, why not ask for help ? A little less hostility amongst list members would be appreciated. You might be so much smarter and better, no need to diminish others.
Kind regards Philippe -- On Thursday 10 January 2008 17:02, Philippe Landau wrote:
evince is probably safer:
> Adobe applications are notorious for "phoning home", > telling Adobe what you do when, > and Adobe is a known bully of the copyright mafia. > Additionally, Adobe software tells the authors of > some pdf files when you open/read their documents. Have any sources for it?
I knew Adobe was calling home, but that a person can request a notification was new to me... (or do you just mean the possibility?)
PDF files can have internal macros to make this happen. I have heard of at least one company that has implemented the logic.
Had to rescue the page for the occasion, sorry for the currently unavailable links to helping.net. http://justwars.com/linux/Adobe-Acrobat-Spying-on-Users.html -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 11 January 2008 03:12:46 Philippe Landau wrote:
Anders Johansson wrote:
On Friday 11 January 2008 02:25:57 Don Raboud wrote:
Among the options one can set in Acrobat reader is to specify a proxy which I usually set to 127.0.0.1 to avoid things like this. (I am not paranoid, just don't like the very idea.) Of course, being closed source one has no idea if acrobat reader honors these settings or not.
Sure one has. Just use wireshark to see what it does. It can't bypass that. No need to sit around guessing, or tell scary stories
I have a hunch lots of people already have done that though, and if it did bad things, we would have heard about it by now, a lot louder than vague rumours on mailing lists
No need to insult if you follow the provided link there (see below)
I'm sorry, but where in that link do they discuss whether acrobat reader honours proxy settings?
or do some online research on your own confirming what is now known since over two years. If you don't find good additional resources and don't speak German, why not ask for help ?
I do speak German (I live in Germany) and I can read. In that page, it says acrobat reader honours web links. This is *very* far removed from "calling home"
A little less hostility amongst list members would be appreciated. You might be so much smarter and better, no need to diminish others.
I don't see how suggesting to use wireshark was either insulting, hostile or diminishing. I see lots of talk, and lots of googling, but no one actually looks Anders -- Madness takes its toll -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 11 January 2008 03:12:46 Philippe Landau wrote:
Anders Johansson wrote:
On Friday 11 January 2008 02:25:57 Don Raboud wrote:
Among the options one can set in Acrobat reader is to specify a proxy which I usually set to 127.0.0.1 to avoid things like this. (I am not paranoid, just don't like the very idea.) Of course, being closed source one has no idea if acrobat reader honors these settings or not.
Sure one has. Just use wireshark to see what it does. It can't bypass that. No need to sit around guessing, or tell scary stories
I have a hunch lots of people already have done that though, and if it did bad things, we would have heard about it by now, a lot louder than vague rumours on mailing lists
No need to insult if you follow the provided link there (see below) or do some online research on your own confirming what is now known since over two years.
By the way, I just discovered that since late 2005, Adobe actually disabled this feature (the feature in question was that acroread let javascript silently download URLs in the background without telling the user- that was how the notification worked) If a PDF today tries to access a URL, acroread will tell the user about it and give him a chance to prevent it. I guess they responded to the articles - and I guess that's why all the articles about this are over two years old (not counting all the blogs that only quote those old articles) So I think this problem is gone from acroread, but again: to make sure, use wireshark to determine what the program actually does on the network And if anyone does discover something happening that should be happening, file a security bug about it. These things are taken seriously Anders -- Madness takes its toll -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 11 January 2008 03:50:56 Anders Johansson wrote:
And if anyone does discover something happening that should be happening,
argh! That should obviously read "...that should *not* be happening"
file a security bug about it. These things are taken seriously -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2008-01-11 at 03:50 +0100, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Friday 11 January 2008 03:12:46 Philippe Landau wrote:
Anders Johansson wrote:
On Friday 11 January 2008 02:25:57 Don Raboud wrote:
Among the options one can set in Acrobat reader is to specify a proxy which I usually set to 127.0.0.1 to avoid things like this. (I am not paranoid, just don't like the very idea.) Of course, being closed source one has no idea if acrobat reader honors these settings or not.
Sure one has. Just use wireshark to see what it does. It can't bypass that. No need to sit around guessing, or tell scary stories
I have a hunch lots of people already have done that though, and if it did bad things, we would have heard about it by now, a lot louder than vague rumours on mailing lists
No need to insult if you follow the provided link there (see below) or do some online research on your own confirming what is now known since over two years.
By the way, I just discovered that since late 2005, Adobe actually disabled this feature (the feature in question was that acroread let javascript silently download URLs in the background without telling the user- that was how the notification worked)
Disabled it? You probably mean, they replaced it by other spy-ware. yesterday and today i was examining why my local dns-server was getting so much rediculous request. I have firefox in an sendbox, and al net traffic is supposed to be going to a proxy. I just had a local dns for handling local intranet-names. But much to my surprise, allmost each pdf opened within firefox result in two external name lookups: one for an internal adobe-site and another for a site related to the content or author of the related pdf. I took the precaution to disable recursion, but the verya latest reader from acrobat is still spying on you!!! hans -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hans Witvliet wrote:
Disabled it? You probably mean, they replaced it by other spy-ware. yesterday and today i was examining why my local dns-server was getting so much rediculous request.
I have firefox in an sendbox, and al net traffic is supposed to be going to a proxy. I just had a local dns for handling local intranet-names.
But much to my surprise, allmost each pdf opened within firefox result in two external name lookups: one for an internal adobe-site and another for a site related to the content or author of the related pdf.
I took the precaution to disable recursion, but the verya latest reader from acrobat is still spying on you!!!
hans
Yes, and I bet there peaved when they seem more .pdfs created by 'ghostscript to ps2pdf' than acrobat. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 11 January 2008 21:36:49 Hans Witvliet wrote:
But much to my surprise, allmost each pdf opened within firefox result in two external name lookups: one for an internal adobe-site and another for a site related to the content or author of the related pdf.
I took the precaution to disable recursion, but the verya latest reader from acrobat is still spying on you!!!
That does not follow. A DNS lookup isn't directly visible to the owner of the URL. It also doesn't contain any data from your system Did you verify with wireshark what happened other than the dns lookups? Anders -- Madness takes its toll -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2008-01-12 at 22:33 +0100, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Friday 11 January 2008 21:36:49 Hans Witvliet wrote:
But much to my surprise, allmost each pdf opened within firefox result in two external name lookups: one for an internal adobe-site and another for a site related to the content or author of the related pdf.
I took the precaution to disable recursion, but the verya latest reader from acrobat is still spying on you!!!
That does not follow. A DNS lookup isn't directly visible to the owner of the URL. It also doesn't contain any data from your system
Did you verify with wireshark what happened other than the dns lookups?
Anders
Not yet, will inverstigate it more next week. No information got leaked out, As the dns-lookup failed, the tcp-connection could not be establised. But it remains strange that for normal http,ftp traffic everything goes straight to the proxy, but when an pdf is opened with acrobat out-bound ip connection were tried to initiated. Perhaps i should also try another pdf-viewer.... hw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2008-01-10 at 18:25 -0700, Don Raboud wrote:
PDF files can have internal macros to make this happen. I have heard of at least one company that has implemented the logic.
Had to rescue the page for the occasion, sorry for the currently unavailable links to helping.net. http://justwars.com/linux/Adobe-Acrobat-Spying-on-Users.html
Among the options one can set in Acrobat reader is to specify a proxy which I usually set to 127.0.0.1 to avoid things like this. (I am not paranoid, just don't like the very idea.) Of course, being closed source one has no idea if acrobat reader honors these settings or not.
I read about a trick to block in the firewall packets originating from a program running with a certain GID: ] Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:52:27 +0200 ] From: nordi ] To: suse-security@ ] Subject: Re: [suse-security] How to block Acroread 7 with SuSE FW2? ] ] In order to block that traffic you could make the acroread executable ] SGID 'acro' and then block all traffic coming from group 'acro'. ] Iptables has an option for doing this by using the --gid-owner option. ] Of course that works only with a local firewall. ] Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:56:26 +0200 ] From: nordi ] To: suse-security@ ] Subject: Re: [suse-security] How to block Acroread 7 with SuSE FW2? ] ] Carl A. Schreiber wrote: ]> I'd like to learn more about this, would you mind to give an example ]> for such a rule? ] ] I did it with the following rule: ] iptables -A OUTPUT -m owner --gid-owner talker -j REJECT ] ] Then I set /usr/bin/netcat to be owned by group 'talker' and to mode ] 2755 (SGID). After that I could not connect anywhere with netcat. Once I ] chmodded netcat back to 755 it worked again. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHhtILtTMYHG2NR9URAkbvAJ97TZNMCFFM5dxUIvfzIzgx8qbDRwCeMMbO 6loY9J/tdF2i+Xn9FBmil7w= =fUaP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Philippe Landau schrieb: |> | can someone help me to find an editor like acrobat reader in linux |> suse 10.2 |> | 0r 10.3? |> Acrobat Reader for Linux ;) | evince is probably safer: probably, but ugo insisted on 'like acrobat reader'. so acrobat reader is like acrobat reader. both are phoning home. :) - -- All the best, Peter J. N. aedon DESIGNS http://www.hochzeitsbuch.info http://www.hochzeitsbuch.selfip.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHhp79h8q3OtgoGAwRAkQ3AJ9OBaVgv899gwMhyFxlOeUGfKGQfgCeKtgy mKXTBjOyUQNSIoT70QItV1w= =K4az -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 10 January 2008 01:51:48 pm Philippe Landau wrote:
evince is probably safer: Adobe applications are notorious for "phoning home", telling Adobe what you do when, and Adobe is a known bully of the copyright mafia. Additionally, Adobe software tells the authors of some pdf files when you open/read their documents.
Kind regards Philippe
I thought that was actually in CS and put in by a 3rd party tracking company? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2008-01-10 at 14:50 -0800, Ben Kevan wrote:
evince is probably safer: Adobe applications are notorious for "phoning home", telling Adobe what you do when, and Adobe is a known bully of the copyright mafia. Additionally, Adobe software tells the authors of some pdf files when you open/read their documents.
Kind regards Philippe
I thought that was actually in CS and put in by a 3rd party tracking company?
Yep. Adobe simply allows code in the document, and code can do many things, good and bad. It's up to the document writer to use those capacities. It is not much different from viewing an html document with images downloaded from the web: anytime you view the document downloading the image, the server knows you are reading it. If you apply it to email, it can act as the "recipient has displayed your email in his computer" receipt. If you use a 1 byte image with name different for each targeted recipient, the sender can learn which of those email addresses he sent to are active and "worthy" of sending more spam. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHhtPRtTMYHG2NR9URAkOaAJ9D+ZVHNBQojqhYIz4ErteHj/QNrwCfSVKq nB8YSEkWTserE/U+xEhEzio= =NCz5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Thursday 2008-01-10 at 14:50 -0800, Ben Kevan wrote:
evince is probably safer: Adobe applications are notorious for "phoning home", telling Adobe what you do when, and Adobe is a known bully of the copyright mafia. Additionally, Adobe software tells the authors of some pdf files when you open/read their documents. I thought that was actually in CS and put in by a 3rd party tracking company?
Yep. Adobe simply allows code in the document, and code can do many things, good and bad. It's up to the document writer to use those capacities.
It is not much different from viewing an html document with images downloaded from the web: anytime you view the document downloading the image, the server knows you are reading it. If you apply it to email, it can act as the "recipient has displayed your email in his computer" receipt. If you use a 1 byte image with name different for each targeted recipient, the sender can learn which of those email addresses he sent to are active and "worthy" of sending more spam. Right. They call those remotely loading images web bugs and Thunderbird for example blocks them by default. For browsing there are a host of tools widely used to stop this kind of snooping on individual's behaviour.
Thanks also Anders for the conciliatory note. Kind regards Philippe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, January 10, 2008 1:40 pm, peter wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Ugo De Marinis(191) schrieb:
| can someone help me to find an editor like acrobat reader in linux suse 10.2 | 0r 10.3?
Acrobat reader is not an editor. Do you mean, like Acrobat Professional, which allows you to create PDF and interactive PDF form fields? -- kai -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (14)
-
Aaron Kulkis -
Anders Johansson -
Ben Kevan -
Carlos E. R. -
David C. Rankin -
Don Raboud -
Greg Freemyer -
Hans Witvliet -
Lenz Grimmer -
Michael Skiba -
PerfectReign -
peter -
Philippe Landau -
Ugo De Marinis(191)