I can't resist passing this on: Craig Fergussen, host of the TV Late Late Show, (CBS) on Bill Gates: He mentions that Gates is funding a war on malaria, then says, "How is he going to cure a disease carried by mosquitoes, when he couldn't even get the bugs out of Windows 98." --dm -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date: 7/14/2006 -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
tisdaginn 18 juli 2006 07:01 skrev Doug McGarrett:
He mentions that Gates is funding a war on malaria, then says, "How is he going to cure a disease carried by mosquitoes, when he couldn't even get the bugs out of Windows 98."
Who says the guy ever wanted to? If you look at it, he became this rich because there were bugs in Windows 98. It's those bugs that keep his company going, producing "cures" in the form of Windows XP and Windows Vista. And don't put up an innocent face, because the entire Linux community is about "endlesslessy fixing bugs" as well. It's this "endlessly fixing bugs" that is what is causing the "blocking of the evolution in IT". If I was to find a reason as to "why" it's allowed ... it's probably because people are afraid of the "IT revolution". -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On 7/18/06, Orn E. Hansen
form of Windows XP and Windows Vista. And don't put up an innocent face, because the entire Linux community is about "endlesslessy fixing bugs" as well. It's this "endlessly fixing bugs" that is what is causing the "blocking of the evolution in IT". If I was to find a reason as to "why" it's allowed ... it's probably because people are afraid of the "IT revolution".
I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Do you suggest that we ignore the bugs and rather focus on new features, new ideas, etc? How is "endlessly fixing bugs" a bad thing? How does bug fixing prevent the IT revolution? -- Andre Truter | Software Consultant | Registered Linux user #185282 Jabber: andre_tux@jabberafrica.org | http://www.trusoft.co.za ~ A dinosaur is a salamander designed to Mil Spec ~ -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
tisdaginn 18 juli 2006 09:48 skrev Andre Truter:
Do you suggest that we ignore the bugs and rather focus on new features, new ideas, etc?
How is "endlessly fixing bugs" a bad thing?
It depends on "how" the bugs originate. Remember that good old James Bond movie, with the "Gates" copy figure? "Guaranteed to buy endless bug fixes" :-)
How does bug fixing prevent the IT revolution?
That something you should've been tought in the University ... when you write a book, you can actually continue writing endlessly but however sooner or later you have to put a period behind the sentence as otherwise its just gonna sound pretty silly and youre going to run out of breath trying to read it without putting a period there even if you feel you havent said everything you think you need to say and then some you understand what Im trying to point out here or do I have to continue to write without a period. And finally, no matter how much you feel you need to put there and how much you feel you need to add to the story that you are making you have to put an END to it somewhere. Because without the END, you can't start a sequel ... can you? And therefore, if you are not putting an END, it might start looking like youre trying to stop others from making a sequel ... something like Star Wars story, perhaps? :-) Of course, its all just a theory and its all untrue ... doesn't need saying, of course >:-) -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On 7/18/06, Orn E. Hansen
tisdaginn 18 juli 2006 09:48 skrev Andre Truter:
Do you suggest that we ignore the bugs and rather focus on new features, new ideas, etc?
How is "endlessly fixing bugs" a bad thing?
It depends on "how" the bugs originate. Remember that good old James Bond movie, with the "Gates" copy figure? "Guaranteed to buy endless bug fixes" :-)
I can understand that this might be true in closed source software where the owner of the software gain more revenue and lock-in by constantly selling fixes and improvements, but I don't see how this can be true in open source. To deliberately write bugs into open source software have no gain for the developer. In fact it has the opposite effect. A develoepr would loose credibility and be ignored in the community because lots of other developers scrutinse the code. One of the strengths of open source software is that developers are motivated by achivement, pride in thier work, etc and not money. So leaving bugs in code or deliberately crippling code is insane.
How does bug fixing prevent the IT revolution?
[...] (snip example) you? And therefore, if you are not putting an END, it might start looking like youre trying to stop others from making a sequel ... something like Star Wars story, perhaps? :-)
In my opinion your example may relate to enless scope changing or feature chasing, not bug fixing. A bug is something that casue the software to function incorrectly, so it has to be fixed before the software can be completed. You don't have a choice but to fix it, otherwise you can never put your fullstop to the line. With software we do have the dilemma that it is very difficult to determine if it is 100% bug-free, so we can never determine if a software product is really complete or not. This is one of the reasons why traditional project management cannot be applied to software development. So, we have to compromise with software projects and we declare a project finished (or milestone reached) when it has been tested and passed a number of tests. After that we continue to fix bugs as they appear, but without adding functionality. That is another pitfall in the software engineering field : How to distinguish between a bug and a feature request and how to prevent feature requests to be slipped in among the bug fixes. (Clients love to do this) But then, a lot of open source projects are living projects. They keep on evolving and do not have definate end. Features are added all the time. A project will continue to evelove until it has become too old and complicated to manage (or people loose interest) and then it will be replaced with a new project. BUT, the original project will have to be maintained for bug fixes as long as it is used.
Of course, its all just a theory and its all untrue ... doesn't need saying, of course >:-)
You are confusing me... Am I the only one confused? (If so then maybe it is time I need to take a vacation) -- Andre Truter | Software Consultant | Registered Linux user #185282 Jabber: andre_tux@jabberafrica.org | http://www.trusoft.co.za ~ A dinosaur is a salamander designed to Mil Spec ~ -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Monday 17 July 2006 21:34, Orn E. Hansen wrote:
If you look at it, he became this rich because there were bugs in Windows 98. It's those bugs that keep his company going, producing "cures" in the form of Windows XP and Windows Vista. And don't put up an innocent face, because the entire Linux community is about "endlesslessy fixing bugs" as well. It's this "endlessly fixing bugs" that is what is causing the "blocking of the evolution in IT". If I was to find a reason as to "why" it's allowed ... it's probably because people are afraid of the "IT revolution".
Man, parsing that hurt my brain. It hardly seems fair to say that the Evolution of MS products is because of bugs. Linux has evolved too. When I got into linux you got a command line and that was it. Hardware evolves too. Is the Pentium 4 in exitance because of bugs in the 8088? You seem to discount the concept of the natural progression of human technology, seemingly suggesting that, were it not for ulterior motives Adam and Eve would have progressed instantly to Astronauts or Gods. Windows is a fundamentally flawed code base, which in spite of all its faults, is the most economically successful (for MS) OS ever developed, and the most costly (for users) OS ever marketed. But bugs are not intentional. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen
Am Dienstag, 18. Juli 2006 10:01 schrieb John Andersen:
On Monday 17 July 2006 21:34, Orn E. Hansen wrote:
If you look at it, he became this rich because there were bugs in Windows 98. It's those bugs that keep his company going, producing "cures" in the form of Windows XP and Windows Vista. And don't put up an innocent face, because the entire Linux community is about "endlesslessy fixing bugs" as well. It's this "endlessly fixing bugs" that is what is causing the "blocking of the evolution in IT". If I was to find a reason as to "why" it's allowed ... it's probably because people are afraid of the "IT revolution".
Man, parsing that hurt my brain.
It hardly seems fair to say that the Evolution of MS products is because of bugs. Linux has evolved too. When I got into linux you got a command line and that was it.
Hardware evolves too. Is the Pentium 4 in exitance because of bugs in the 8088?
You seem to discount the concept of the natural progression of human technology, seemingly suggesting that, were it not for ulterior motives Adam and Eve would have progressed instantly to Astronauts or Gods.
Windows is a fundamentally flawed code base, which in spite of all its faults, is the most economically successful (for MS) OS ever developed, and the most costly (for users) OS ever marketed.
But bugs are not intentional.
-- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Switzerland professional photography: http://www.daniel-bauer.com special interest site: http://www.bauer-nudes.com -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
tisdaginn 18 juli 2006 10:22 skrev Daniel Bauer:
But bugs are not intentional.
Of course not ... wouldn't dream of trying to even HINT that anyone would actually put some kind of a flaw, back door or other "feature" ¯H¯H¯H ... I mean bug, into a software ... by design. Just as we all know, it's only 4 year old kids who can't read and aren't out of their diapers yet, that write viruses ... even if there are multiple companies making billions from their existance. Doesn't need saying ... geesh! ROFL. -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
Am Dienstag, 18. Juli 2006 10:01 schrieb John Andersen:
On Monday 17 July 2006 21:34, Orn E. Hansen wrote:
If you look at it, he became this rich because there were bugs in Windows 98. It's those bugs that keep his company going, producing "cures" in the form of Windows XP and Windows Vista. And don't put up an innocent face, because the entire Linux community is about "endlesslessy fixing bugs" as well. It's this "endlessly fixing bugs" that is what is causing the "blocking of the evolution in IT". If I was to find a reason as to "why" it's allowed ... it's probably because people are afraid of the "IT revolution".
Man, parsing that hurt my brain.
It hardly seems fair to say that the Evolution of MS products is because of bugs. Linux has evolved too. When I got into linux you got a command line and that was it.
Hardware evolves too. Is the Pentium 4 in exitance because of bugs in the 8088?
You seem to discount the concept of the natural progression of human technology, seemingly suggesting that, were it not for ulterior motives Adam and Eve would have progressed instantly to Astronauts or Gods.
Windows is a fundamentally flawed code base, which in spite of all its faults, is the most economically successful (for MS) OS ever developed, and the most costly (for users) OS ever marketed.
But bugs are not intentional.
(sorry for my last post, that just went out unintentionally and empty...) I guess the extreme faultiness of M$ W is a *real* advantage for every programmer. I developped a data base application for a client on a codeline based ancient Unix on a 386-PC - and this f***ing program just run for more than 15 years without any complaint - I had nothing more to do with it. Then, some years ago, I got the chance to rewrite the application (not because it didn't work anymore, but because they were afraid, the hardware could die). I installed my new app on Suse 9.0, and now it just runs and runs and runs - they never had the slightest problems - which simply means: no more money for me to gain in supporting them. On W this would never have happened to me. On the other hand I see those companies, that are using W (for reasons I really can't understand) - and the programmers and supporters are there almost every day, searching for this, fixing that, adapt application to the latest release, because it wouldn't run anymore due to some changes in the "system"... And they make a good deal of money thanks to this! So, if you're a programmer or consultant you should better go on W. It ensures you to have work all the time, while, if you recommend Linux to your customers, your customers will be happy, but you're going to die of hunger, because your applications will still work perfectly even after major updates of the system. That might sound ironic, but I am absolutely sure, that many consultants recommend W *only* out of such reasons. In fact, I couldn't imagine any other reason to recommend W, except if you're a sadist. Daniel -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Switzerland professional photography: http://www.daniel-bauer.com special interest site: http://www.bauer-nudes.com -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On 7/18/06, Daniel Bauer
So, if you're a programmer or consultant you should better go on W. It ensures you to have work all the time, while, if you recommend Linux to your customers, your customers will be happy, but you're going to die of hunger, because your applications will still work perfectly even after major updates of the system.
I suppose that is one way of looking at it. The way I look at it is that if I can get the client to run on Linux then I always have new challenges as I don't have to constantly go back to the one project. I can leave that one and start new projects with different challenges This way I broaden my experience and keep on learning new things, improving myself. If the project is Windows based, then I cannot expand on it so easily, as a great deal of my time goes into jut keeping it running. So, I can still generate income from both situations, but my chances for growth is better if I run the project on Linux. -- Andre Truter | Software Consultant | Registered Linux user #185282 Jabber: andre_tux@jabberafrica.org | http://www.trusoft.co.za ~ A dinosaur is a salamander designed to Mil Spec ~ -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Tuesday 18 July 2006 04:40, Daniel Bauer wrote: [big time snipity snip]
So, if you're a programmer or consultant you should better go on W. It ensures you to have work all the time, while, if you recommend Linux to your customers, your customers will be happy, but you're going to die of hunger, because your applications will still work perfectly even after major updates of the system.
That might sound ironic, but I am absolutely sure, that many consultants recommend W *only* out of such reasons. In fact, I couldn't imagine any other reason to recommend W, except if you're a sadist.
I'm doing quite nicely in the unix world, thanks. The thing about customers is that when one thing works great for them, there's always something else new they want working great, or something else that's broken that they want working great. -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
Am Dienstag, 18. Juli 2006 12:52 schrieb Ken Jennings:
I'm doing quite nicely in the unix world, thanks. The thing about customers is that when one thing works great for them, there's always something else new they want working great, or something else that's broken that they want working great.
Hi Ken & Andre Of course you're absolutely right! Even the reasons I mentioned are no reasons at all to really consider working with W. I wouldn't reccommend Linux to my customers and everybody else (and refuse to accept jobs on W) if I'd seriously think, W would make a consultants life any better :-) I just sometimes get jealous of those guys that can run to their customers every day, having a lot of income just out of W's bugs. And if something doesn't work as expected, they can always say: "not my fault, it's a W bug" and everybody immediately believs it, even if they screwed it up themselves. Well, on the other hand I guess they are jealous of us, too, because we can go on in interesting work and really have fun, while they have to bother with the same s*** every day again and again. Money really isn't everything. At least I had once again the opportunity to put in my off-topic rants - but I'm gonna stop now. ;-) A nice W-free day to everybody! Daniel -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Switzerland professional photography: http://www.daniel-bauer.com special interest site: http://www.bauer-nudes.com -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Tuesday 18 July 2006 03:37, Daniel Bauer wrote:
I just sometimes get jealous of those guys that can run to their customers every day, having a lot of income just out of W's bugs. And if something doesn't work as expected, they can always say: "not my fault, it's a W bug" and everybody immediately believs it, even if they screwed it up themselves.
You guys need to get out more. I've been in systems development all my adult life, and I don't know of anyone who "runs to their customers" every day on any product THEY developed. If they did, the customer would soon get tired of them and get rid of the system just to get rid of the consultants. I've seen this happen. I have systems I've written, and migrated from IBM 370 mainframes to DOS PCs, and Novell networks, then to Windows and Linux servers. The programs are essentially intact from the early mainframe versions with the only changes being enhancements requested by the users, and platform mandated changes. I've moved systems to the PC and never touched them again, they are still running today in XP boxes even though they were delivered when Dos 6 was the best you could get. In the real world, the mission changes over time, and that is why software developers come out with new versions. Medical billing systems are a good example. Every little clinic and doctors office either needs to farm this out or get some software. If they get some software there are going to be subsequent versions. Laws change. Insurance changes. Medical science changes. The need for changes in the software which are mandated by the user community VASTLY outnumber and are more frequent than the need for changes mandated by Bill Gates. I'd put the above sentence in ALL CAPS if it wasn't so rude. Your contentions seems to be that if the Medical Billing was done on Linux, the fact that the HCFA 1500 form was redesigned every few years and Medical Diagnostic Codes and procedures change yearly, and congress passes law after law would SUDDENLY DISAPPEAR. I suggest you are not living in the real world, where systems more complex than a rolodex, and bills have to be paid on time, and new data keeping requirements arise every year. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen
Am Dienstag, 18. Juli 2006 20:31 schrieb John Andersen:
On Tuesday 18 July 2006 03:37, Daniel Bauer wrote:
I just sometimes get jealous of those guys that can run to their customers every day, having a lot of income just out of W's bugs. And if something doesn't work as expected, they can always say: "not my fault, it's a W bug" and everybody immediately believs it, even if they screwed it up themselves.
[...]
Your contentions seems to be that if the Medical Billing was done on Linux, the fact that the HCFA 1500 form was redesigned every few years and Medical Diagnostic Codes and procedures change yearly, and congress passes law after law would SUDDENLY DISAPPEAR.
I suggest you are not living in the real world, where systems more complex than a rolodex, and bills have to be paid on time, and new data keeping requirements arise every year.
No, I'm not talking about software enhancements, new developements etc., but about those guys having a support contract with a company. One day e-mail doesn't work, another day word docs have disappeared, excel tables can't be read anymore, after an automatic "update" the printer doesn't like to print, menues and functions in all-day programs have changend and the users don't find them anymore, PC on the lan suddenly don't understand each other, the trash tray has been to small and files were completely deleted without warning... In the early W-days (I was doing a lot of COBOL programming as a side job that time) I bought the Win-3.1 SDK - quite expensive, some 6 diskettes for about 1000 CHF IIRC. After I've learned how to use it, I couldn't use it, because there was a new Win-Version out, incompatible, of course. I decided to use an NCR "kind of unix" and developped there. No system related changes had to be done to the app ever. While some of my friends developed on W. Whenever W came out with a new release they had to apply several changes to their software, because the internal "system interfaces" (excuse my maybe wrong english) changed fundamentally: calls to system parts didn't work anymore, asked for other parameters or produced other results than before. This is the real W-World - all in Caps :-) B.t.w.: I'd really appreciate if bills - especially the ones I make out - would be paid on time in the real world :-) Now, who is talking theory? Daniel -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Switzerland professional photography: http://www.daniel-bauer.com special interest site: http://www.bauer-nudes.com -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
Daniel Bauer wrote:
That might sound ironic, but I am absolutely sure,
you are certainly right. Think about sysadmin. How many sysadmin for Linux based network? I did so with one hour work each year (new login/passwd for newcommers) and some time to stop the server on early july and restarting in on early september (in a school). Nearly nothing between, when my colleagues W had work all the year installing and reinstalling :-) :-) But it could also be true that bugs are intentional. Bugs makes the users constantly upgrade, in the desperate hope than the new version will have less bugs than the other. this is very money catching for m$ I can't understand, if this is not true, how a so rich company can't afford to sign on competent programmers... and XP have still blue screens. My son bough yesterday a new (game) computer. it crashes the very same day... jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
At 03:13 PM 7/18/2006 +0200, jdd sur free wrote:
Daniel Bauer wrote
/ snip/
But it could also be true that bugs are intentional. Bugs makes the users constantly upgrade, in the desperate hope than the new version will have less bugs than the other.
this is very money catching for m$
I can't understand, if this is not true, how a so rich company can't afford to sign on competent programmers...
and XP have still blue screens. My son bough yesterday a new (game) computer. it crashes the very same day...
jdd /snip/
I would agree that M/S has certain deficiencies that they know about, but I sincerely doubt that any bugs are deliberately written into their software. I understand that XP has something like 50 MILLION lines of code. If you have ever programmed anything, and I have, altho it might have been only a few hundred lines at a time, you know that bugs are inevitable. (I'm not a real programmer; I'm a retired RF engineer, but "back in the day" we all did some programming, mostly in BASIC or Fortran.) Anyway, I have dealt with my share of "real" programmers, some of them really outstanding at what they do, and I never met one who didn't have bugs on occasion. Who in this lifetime can possibly troubleshoot 50 million lines of code? Or anticipate all the possible scenarios that the users can create. M/S is not the only guilty party: One of my favorite programs as an engineer was AutoCad. They somehow managed to screw up their own invention, .DWG files, so that they wouldn't run on _their own software updates_ or, of course, on other S/W that promised to run .DWG files. I have no idea if this was deliberate--only that it was a PITA for all users and others who had to work with or from these files. And M/S fixed it so that with W98, the conversion program from MiCAD (EESof) to AutoCad wouldn't work anymore. Probably not deliberatly, just out of stupidity. *************************************************************** BTW, I have been running this XP-Pro system for probably 2 years, and have never seen a blue-screen, altho one or two things have crashed the system. I would be on the Linux machine, but the e-mail has developed a glitch that no-one on the list could suggest a fix for, and the damned thing won't let me reinstall 10.0. And Suse on _this_ machine can't access email--I don't think it likes the network interface built in to the PCB. Just my 2 cents. I don't hate M/S. I distrust them like crazy, but not to but in bugs--to put in RENT. --doug, wa2say -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/390 - Release Date: 7/17/2006 -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
Doug McGarrett wrote:
I would agree that M/S has certain deficiencies that they know about, but I sincerely doubt that any bugs are deliberately written into their software. I understand that XP has something like 50 MILLION lines of code. If you have ever programmed anything, and I have, altho it might have been only a few hundred lines at a time, you know that bugs are inevitable.
Some of the things MS has deliberately done, are extremely bad software engineering. Back in the mid 90's when they were being sued for bundling IE, they claimed it was part of the operating system and could not be removed, without crippling the operating system. At that time, IE was just an app, just like Netscape. However, when W98 came out, IE was deeply embedded in the OS. This means that flaws in IE can become flaws in the OS, with serious consequences. Further, you may want to read up on how Windows 3 tested to see if it was running on DR-DOS and then created an error message. This was done entirely to make users think DR-DOS was incompatible with Windows, even though it worked fine with it. Another "bug" was similar test code in MSCDEX CD-ROM drivers, which if run under OS/2 would also "fail". Bypass those few lines of code that tested for OS/2 and they worked fine. MS also has a history of deliberate incompatibility, sometimes even with it's own older products. All the above is well documented in the trial transcripts and elsewhere, and shows MS's contempt for it's own custormers. -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Wed, 2006-07-19 at 07:19 -0400, James Knott wrote:
Doug McGarrett wrote:
I would agree that M/S has certain deficiencies that they know about, but I sincerely doubt that any bugs are deliberately written into their software. I understand that XP has something like 50 MILLION lines of code. If you have ever programmed anything, and I have, altho it might have been only a few hundred lines at a time, you know that bugs are inevitable.
Some of the things MS has deliberately done, are extremely bad software engineering. Back in the mid 90's when they were being sued for bundling IE, they claimed it was part of the operating system and could not be removed, without crippling the operating system. At that time, IE was just an app, just like Netscape. However, when W98 came out, IE was deeply embedded in the OS. This means that flaws in IE can become flaws in the OS, with serious consequences. Further, you may want to read up on how Windows 3 tested to see if it was running on DR-DOS and then created an error message. This was done entirely to make users think DR-DOS was incompatible with Windows, even though it worked fine with it. Another "bug" was similar test code in MSCDEX CD-ROM drivers, which if run under OS/2 would also "fail". Bypass those few lines of code that tested for OS/2 and they worked fine. MS also has a history of deliberate incompatibility, sometimes even with it's own older products.
I think MS also checked to see if you were running PC-Dos along side of 98se. I know I had a lot of trouble until I replaced it with an older MS-DOS.
All the above is well documented in the trial transcripts and elsewhere, and shows MS's contempt for it's own custormers.
-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
James Knott wrote:
IE was just an app, just like Netscape. However, when W98 came out, IE was deeply embedded in the OS.
I have even worst. M$ did bad programms, but very good hardware. I bough a m$ mouse. usb one. on w98 an usb mouse need driver (normal, on 98 usb where few) but why did the mouse driver ask for IE to be installed? what is the need of a browser for a mouse driver??? and of course with the free IE6 where advertisement (this IE bar so difficult to remove) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
Like the subject says...'OT', let's take it there please.
--
"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man, hated
and scorned. When the cause succeeds, however, the timid join him...for then
it costs nothing to be a patriot" - Mark Twain
"Calling an illegal alien an undocumented immigrant is like calling a burglar
an uninvited house guest."
participants (10)
-
Andre Truter -
Daniel Bauer -
Doug McGarrett -
James Knott -
JB -
jdd sur free -
John Andersen -
Ken Jennings -
Mike McMullin -
Orn E. Hansen