[opensuse] YaST2 - System Backup for 13.2
Hi, this made me really angry. Package yast2-backup is missing for 13.2: http://software.opensuse.org/package/yast2-backup Why? This was one of the most useful YaST modules! Is there any replacement? Thanks, V.
El 28/11/14 a las 13:21, Vojtěch Zeisek escribió:
Hi, this made me really angry. Package yast2-backup is missing for 13.2: http://software.opensuse.org/package/yast2-backup Why? This was one of the most useful YaST modules! Is there any replacement? Thanks, V.
It had no maintainer AFAIK. Yast-snapper is probably its successor. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Dne Pá 28. listopadu 2014 13:53:08, Cristian Rodríguez napsal(a):
El 28/11/14 a las 13:21, Vojtěch Zeisek escribió:
Hi, this made me really angry. Package yast2-backup is missing for 13.2: http://software.opensuse.org/package/yast2-backup Why? This was one of the most useful YaST modules! Is there any replacement?
It had no maintainer AFAIK. Yast-snapper is probably its successor.
Isn't this only for Btrfs? This is going to make upgrade, for example, of server (installed on 12.3 with Ext4) really easier and fully painless... :-/ Btrfs snapshot is very different think than tar archive with selected data. Dropping handy working tool is really great way how to do thinks... :-/ V. -- Vojtěch Zeisek Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux http://www.opensuse.org/ http://trapa.cz/
El 28/11/14 a las 15:19, Vojtěch Zeisek escribió:
Dropping handy working tool is really great way how to do thinks... :-/
Sometimes things that have no maintainer bitrot to death and developer resources have to be devoted to a different more important tasks.. Of course it could be revived if someone volunteers to do the job. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-11-28 17:53, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 28/11/14 a las 13:21, Vojtěch Zeisek escribió:
Hi, this made me really angry. Package yast2-backup is missing for 13.2: http://software.opensuse.org/package/yast2-backup Why? This was one of the most useful YaST modules! Is there any replacement?
It had no maintainer AFAIK. Yast-snapper is probably its successor.
No way. There is no relation whatsoever between a backup, stored on different media, and a snapshot, which by definition is on the same media, and thus may have been destroyed. YaST backup could, in theory, recover from bare bones. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlR5DisACgkQtTMYHG2NR9V9GwCgk9VSTrKbn4swBc/ltvmsuwQ8 nboAn2OMh7XdJWLA17kiVlRKPcibFLMG =ecig -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/28/2014 04:07 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-11-28 17:53, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 28/11/14 a las 13:21, Vojtěch Zeisek escribió:
Hi, this made me really angry. Package yast2-backup is missing for 13.2: http://software.opensuse.org/package/yast2-backup Why? This was one of the most useful YaST modules! Is there any replacement?
It had no maintainer AFAIK. Yast-snapper is probably its successor.
No way. There is no relation whatsoever between a backup, stored on different media, and a snapshot, which by definition is on the same media, and thus may have been destroyed.
Agreed, snapshots are not for this.
YaST backup could, in theory, recover from bare bones.
Nobody I know has ever tried that. Recovery to Bare Metal is seldom practical unless you happen to have an exact replica machine laying around, but with today's disk naming default scheme (UUIDs) even that is fraught with peril. - -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlR5E00ACgkQv7M3G5+2DLI0MwCgnuEQKYp4Mf4Zy7ZGBDP8OUhA HPIAnRgiulz6BdQjAiDHFAuyMb3kT3vD =ziF4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-11-29 01:29, John Andersen wrote:
On 11/28/2014 04:07 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
YaST backup could, in theory, recover from bare bones.
Nobody I know has ever tried that.
Me neither. But I did investigate it long ago. It created an autoyast file, and with that you should be able to reconstruct the system. And then the backup replaces changed files.
Recovery to Bare Metal is seldom practical unless you happen to have an exact replica machine laying around, but with today's disk naming default scheme (UUIDs) even that is fraught with peril.
That is irrelevant if the yast module is properly maintained, which it probably wasn't. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Dne So 29. listopadu 2014 02:19:46, Carlos E. R. napsal(a):
On 2014-11-29 01:29, John Andersen wrote:
On 11/28/2014 04:07 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
YaST backup could, in theory, recover from bare bones.
Nobody I know has ever tried that.
Me neither. But I did investigate it long ago. It created an autoyast file, and with that you should be able to reconstruct the system. And then the backup replaces changed files.
I several times restored broken system using that module. It worked very well. It allowed to restore (selected) repositories, software, configuration, data, ... Very useful tool, indeed.
Recovery to Bare Metal is seldom practical unless you happen to have an exact replica machine laying around, but with today's disk naming default scheme (UUIDs) even that is fraught with peril.
That is irrelevant if the yast module is properly maintained, which it probably wasn't.
I haven't had any problem with UUIDs related with backups. No problems with transferring configuration to another machines. Yours, Vojtěch -- Vojtěch Zeisek Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux http://www.opensuse.org/ http://trapa.cz/
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-11-29 11:03, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
Dne So 29. listopadu 2014 02:19:46, Carlos E. R. napsal(a):
I several times restored broken system using that module. It worked very well. It allowed to restore (selected) repositories, software, configuration, data, ... Very useful tool, indeed. ... I haven't had any problem with UUIDs related with backups. No problems with transferring configuration to another machines.
Then, it is a real pity that the module disappeared. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlR5z2UACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UHbACff4h7XDfxP0PoCwRR4L4DNGU9 Lg0An1Y7ab9MXD5BqfBivKeShNnRbF+c =jGqq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/28/2014 07:07 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-11-28 17:53, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 28/11/14 a las 13:21, Vojtěch Zeisek escribió:
Hi, this made me really angry. Package yast2-backup is missing for 13.2: http://software.opensuse.org/package/yast2-backup Why? This was one of the most useful YaST modules! Is there any replacement?
It had no maintainer AFAIK. Yast-snapper is probably its successor.
No way. There is no relation whatsoever between a backup, stored on different media, and a snapshot, which by definition is on the same media, and thus may have been destroyed.
YaST backup could, in theory, recover from bare bones.
+1 Snapper style 'snapshots' are an artefact of BtrFS's COW mechanisms. They are quite different from an 'snapshot' for backup purposes such as might be taken with a LVM partition copy, a rsync copy, or as Vojtěch mentions, a TAR copy. The idea that backups are not important as Cristian implies is quite unacceptable. -- /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML Mail / \ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Dne Pá 28. listopadu 2014 19:47:07, Anton Aylward napsal(a):
On 11/28/2014 07:07 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-11-28 17:53, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 28/11/14 a las 13:21, Vojtěch Zeisek escribió:
Hi, this made me really angry. Package yast2-backup is missing for 13.2: http://software.opensuse.org/package/yast2-backup Why? This was one of the most useful YaST modules! Is there any replacement?
It had no maintainer AFAIK. Yast-snapper is probably its successor.
No way. There is no relation whatsoever between a backup, stored on different media, and a snapshot, which by definition is on the same media, and thus may have been destroyed.
YaST backup could, in theory, recover from bare bones.
+1
Snapper style 'snapshots' are an artefact of BtrFS's COW mechanisms. They are quite different from an 'snapshot' for backup purposes such as might be taken with a LVM partition copy, a rsync copy, or as Vojtěch mentions, a TAR copy.
The idea that backups are not important as Cristian implies is quite unacceptable.
I asked about it in #yast IRC (they don't have manpower to maintain it and they don't feel to be experts in backup field) and they suggested to use ReaR (there is also YaST ReaR). This tool looks very good. Other tools, IMHO more suitable more for data then system configuration are Amanda, Bacula and, for example, Duplicity. But only ReaR seems to replace part of YaST Backup functionality related to backup and restore of system configuration. So there are some replacements. It will require some testing to change the work-flow, thought... Vojtěch -- Vojtěch Zeisek Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux http://www.opensuse.org/ http://trapa.cz/
On Mon, 01 Dec 2014 11:27:35 +0100 Vojtěch Zeisek <vojtech.zeisek@opensuse.org> wrote:
Other tools, IMHO more suitable more for data then system configuration are Amanda, Bacula and, for example, Duplicity.
Don't know about that YaST's missing tool, but you can configure both Amanda and Bacula to backp whatever part of the system is important for you and have bare-metal restore feature. Personally, now I use Amanda (with LTO-2 tapes) since it stores data in standard tar archives which can be easily restored without any extra tool. Sincerely, Gour -- From wherever the mind wanders due to its flickering and unsteady nature, one must certainly withdraw it and bring it back under the control of the self.
Dne Po 1. prosince 2014 11:47:53, Gour napsal(a):
On Mon, 01 Dec 2014 11:27:35 +0100
Vojtěch Zeisek <vojtech.zeisek@opensuse.org> wrote:
Other tools, IMHO more suitable more for data then system configuration are Amanda, Bacula and, for example, Duplicity.
Don't know about that YaST's missing tool, but you can configure both Amanda and Bacula to backp whatever part of the system is important for you and have bare-metal restore feature.
Likely I'll end-up with some solution like that... -- Vojtěch Zeisek Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux http://www.opensuse.org/ http://trapa.cz/
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-12-01 11:47, Gour wrote:
Don't know about that YaST's missing tool, but you can configure both Amanda and Bacula to backp whatever part of the system is important for you and have bare-metal restore feature.
YaST backup created an autoyast profile, which, in theory, can be used to reconstruct the machine on different hardware. Not all backup procedures can do that. However, if it was broken... - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlR8em8ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XJYgCfZpArLsEUeBAM2m/FHaGk238t dQgAnRIprsRaZTtGkNdsz916BRscnonP =8Dvc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Dne Po 1. prosince 2014 15:25:54, Carlos E. R. napsal(a):
On 2014-12-01 11:47, Gour wrote:
Don't know about that YaST's missing tool, but you can configure both Amanda and Bacula to backp whatever part of the system is important for you and have bare-metal restore feature.
YaST backup created an autoyast profile, which, in theory, can be used to reconstruct the machine on different hardware.
Yes, but it isn't the only possibility how to restore the system.
Not all backup procedures can do that.
ReaR has (experimental) module to do so.
However, if it was broken...
It wasn't. -- Vojtěch Zeisek Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux http://www.opensuse.org/ http://trapa.cz/
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-12-01 15:30, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
Dne Po 1. prosince 2014 15:25:54, Carlos E. R. napsal(a):
Not all backup procedures can do that.
ReaR has (experimental) module to do so.
I'll have a look.
However, if it was broken...
It wasn't.
You just mentioned on another post several things that do not work on yast backup: GRUB2-efi, UUIDs... - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlR8gGoACgkQtTMYHG2NR9V5RACfY8917YMyy7EW272wouZyR3mb wkMAn1gRMD8buWlkw6ampgwgdF1/JN9M =yIkK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Dne Po 1. prosince 2014 15:51:24, Carlos E. R. napsal(a):
On 2014-12-01 15:30, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
Dne Po 1. prosince 2014 15:25:54, Carlos E. R. napsal(a):
Not all backup procedures can do that.
ReaR has (experimental) module to do so.
Package rear-SUSE. I'm not sure about yast2-rear (how exactly it works)
I'll have a look.
http://software.opensuse.org/search?q=rear
However, if it was broken...
It wasn't.
You just mentioned on another post several things that do not work on yast backup: GRUB2-efi, UUIDs...
Sorry, this was misunderstanding. GRUB2-efi, UUIDs and vfat aren't supported for ReaR. I'm not sure how exactly yast2-backup worked, but it didn't have problem with those things. -- Vojtěch Zeisek Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux http://www.opensuse.org/ http://trapa.cz/
On 2014-12-01 15:59, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
Dne Po 1. prosince 2014 15:51:24, Carlos E. R. napsal(a):
On 2014-12-01 15:30, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
Dne Po 1. prosince 2014 15:25:54, Carlos E. R. napsal(a):
Not all backup procedures can do that.
ReaR has (experimental) module to do so.
Package rear-SUSE. I'm not sure about yast2-rear (how exactly it works)
I'll have a look.
I already installed it. But for 13.1 there is no yast module, unless it is hidden in some other repo.
Sorry, this was misunderstanding. GRUB2-efi, UUIDs and vfat aren't supported for ReaR. I'm not sure how exactly yast2-backup worked, but it didn't have problem with those things.
Ah! Makes more sense, then. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Dne Po 1. prosince 2014 16:09:27, Carlos E. R. napsal(a):
On 2014-12-01 15:59, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
Dne Po 1. prosince 2014 15:51:24, Carlos E. R. napsal(a):
On 2014-12-01 15:30, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
Dne Po 1. prosince 2014 15:25:54, Carlos E. R. napsal(a):
Not all backup procedures can do that.
ReaR has (experimental) module to do so.
Package rear-SUSE. I'm not sure about yast2-rear (how exactly it works)
I'll have a look.
I already installed it. But for 13.1 there is no yast module, unless it is hidden in some other repo.
http://software.opensuse.org/package/yast2-rear -- Vojtěch Zeisek Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux http://www.opensuse.org/ http://trapa.cz/
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-12-01 16:14, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
I already installed it. But for 13.1 there is no yast module, unless it is hidden in some other repo.
Ah, Yast:head... Adding things from there needs care, in case something else breaks, or needs updating other yast components. A thing that I don't like to do, being a crucial component. I'll think about it, thanks. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlR8ihkACgkQtTMYHG2NR9V/5ACffLux1rW1dWI148hh9agfLC7B KFsAnjwZYQZt8e5MtldMuj5gXGBapgsD =C2Tv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Dne Po 1. prosince 2014 16:32:44, Carlos E. R. napsal(a):
On 2014-12-01 16:14, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
I already installed it. But for 13.1 there is no yast module, unless it is hidden in some other repo.
Ah, Yast:head...
Adding things from there needs care, in case something else breaks, or needs updating other yast components. A thing that I don't like to do, being a crucial component.
Some fiddling with priorities? ;-) V. -- Vojtěch Zeisek Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux http://www.opensuse.org/ http://trapa.cz/
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-12-01 16:36, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
Dne Po 1. prosince 2014 16:32:44, Carlos E. R. napsal(a):
On 2014-12-01 16:14, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
I already installed it. But for 13.1 there is no yast module, unless it is hidden in some other repo.
Ah, Yast:head...
Adding things from there needs care, in case something else breaks, or needs updating other yast components. A thing that I don't like to do, being a crucial component.
Some fiddling with priorities? ;-)
Dunno. For the moment, it is on my ToDo back list. Currently I use plain dd, clonezilla, rsync, rdiff-backup... xfsdump... - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlR8j68ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VR1wCfXwtnjAcLqD+yoqsuRZ8xqMcH WCUAn1KRTP1JBkA8VN1OWY2IdSaWg3Eu =1BPR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Dne Po 1. prosince 2014 16:56:33, Carlos E. R. napsal(a):
On 2014-12-01 16:36, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
Dne Po 1. prosince 2014 16:32:44, Carlos E. R. napsal(a):
On 2014-12-01 16:14, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
Ah, Yast:head...
Adding things from there needs care, in case something else breaks, or needs updating other yast components. A thing that I don't like to do, being a crucial component.
Some fiddling with priorities? ;-)
Dunno. For the moment, it is on my ToDo back list.
If I understand it correctly, if You give higher number to Yast:head (default is 99, so 100 or higher) to get it lower in the repository list, when You install any other YaST module or so, it should be preferably installed from OSS repo as it has higher priority, right? And it should be kept during updates, probably until You allow vendor changes.
Currently I use plain dd, clonezilla, rsync, rdiff-backup... xfsdump...
I mostly rsync, duplicity. I tried Bacula. Rdiff-backup is not developed any more, I think. Sincerely, Vojtěch -- Vojtěch Zeisek Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux http://www.opensuse.org/ http://trapa.cz/
On 12/1/2014 1:45 PM, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
If I understand it correctly, if You give higher number to Yast:head (default is 99, so 100 or higher) to get it lower in the repository list, when You install any other YaST module or so, it should be preferably installed from OSS repo as it has higher priority, right? And it should be kept during updates, probably until You allow vendor changes.
It has always annoyed me that nowhere in Yast does it say what exactly the meaning of priority is (numerically). Does 100 rank higher than 99? Does 98 rank higher than 99? Priority is defined in the help, but even that is obtusely worded. And unless you have Allow vendor change selected it means nothing. -- _____________________________________ ---This space for rent--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-12-02 01:17, John Andersen wrote:
It has always annoyed me that nowhere in Yast does it say what exactly the meaning of priority is (numerically).
Does 100 rank higher than 99? Does 98 rank higher than 99?
A lower number is a higher priority. I don't remember where I read it, but I did :-)
Priority is defined in the help, but even that is obtusely worded. And unless you have Allow vendor change selected it means nothing.
It does for new packages, or when doing a dup. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Dne Po 1. prosince 2014 11:27:35 jste napsal(a):
On 11/28/2014 07:07 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-11-28 17:53, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 28/11/14 a las 13:21, Vojtěch Zeisek escribió: I asked about it in #yast IRC (they don't have manpower to maintain it and
Dne Pá 28. listopadu 2014 19:47:07, Anton Aylward napsal(a): they don't feel to be experts in backup field) and they suggested to use ReaR (there is also YaST ReaR). This tool looks very good.
Several problems: GRUB2-efi isn't supported. Vfat (required for /boot/efi when using UEFI) isn't supported. Disks mounted by UUIDs aren't supported. The last issue is solvable (although for LVM I'm not absolutely sure). But first two... I don't know... If I'd the tried to restore system, I'm not sure it'd work...
Other tools, IMHO more suitable more for data then system configuration are Amanda, Bacula and, for example, Duplicity. But only ReaR seems to replace part of YaST Backup functionality related to backup and restore of system configuration. So there are some replacements. It will require some testing to change the work-flow, thought...
Argh, it takes time to replace one working solution by new one... :-/ -- Vojtěch Zeisek Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux http://www.opensuse.org/ http://trapa.cz/
On 11/28/2014 8:21 AM, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
Hi, this made me really angry. Package yast2-backup is missing for 13.2: http://software.opensuse.org/package/yast2-backup Why? This was one of the most useful YaST modules! Is there any replacement? Thanks, V.
Its been there for years, until the re-factoring of Yast, but quite frankly I've never found a single use for it. It was so limited in capabilities as to be useless, and better backup systems are easy to find, from low-level utilities to full fledged packages. (There are some very good commercial solutions too). -- _____________________________________ ---This space for rent--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Anton Aylward -
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
Cristian Rodríguez -
Gour -
John Andersen -
Vojtěch Zeisek