[SLE] Software Management -- "Avail. Ver." vs "Inst. Ver." in 10.1
Once upon a time (not sure how many versions back this goes), there were two version columns under Software Management, just as there are now, although the column headings may have been slightly different (can't remember). If the package had not been updated, the two numbers were identical. If the package had been updated, the Inst. version was a larger number and was highlighted (white on black background instead of black on white background, or something like that). So, you could quickly go through the list to see which packages had had patches applied to them. In looking in Software management now, it looks like those columns both show the exact same version in every single case. I know I've applied numerous package updates since I first installed 10.1, so are these two columns now just redundant data? Does anyone have instances where they show different versions in these columns? Looks like it's either a bug or a feature that is no longer supported (and one of the columns should just be removed). Greg Wallace -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Sunday 16 July 2006 12:30, Greg Wallace wrote:
Once upon a time (not sure how many versions back this goes), there were two version columns under Software Management, just as there are now, <snip>
Hi Greg, The two columns are 'Inst Ver' and 'Avail Ver'. If 'Inst Ver' is empty, the package is not installed. If the package is available for installation, it appears in the 'Avail Ver' column. 'Avail Ver' shows the latest version that is available **from the installation sources you've defined.** When 'Avail Ver' > 'Inst Ver' the text in that row turns blue. This means you *can* update it to the later version. When 'Avail Ver' = 'Inst Ver' the text in that row remains black. Nothing to do in this case. When 'Inst Ver' > 'Avail Ver' the text in that row turns red. hth & regards, Carl -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Sunday, July 16, 2006 @ 12:26 PM, Carl Hartung wrote:
On Sunday 16 July 2006 12:30, Greg Wallace wrote:
Once upon a time (not sure how many versions back this goes), there were two version columns under Software Management, just as there are now, <snip>
Hi Greg,
The two columns are 'Inst Ver' and 'Avail Ver'.
If 'Inst Ver' is empty, the package is not installed. If the package is available for installation, it appears in the 'Avail Ver' column.
'Avail Ver' shows the latest version that is available **from the installation sources you've defined.**
When 'Avail Ver' > 'Inst Ver' the text in that row turns blue. This means you *can* update it to the later version.
When 'Avail Ver' = 'Inst Ver' the text in that row remains black. Nothing to do in this case.
When 'Inst Ver' > 'Avail Ver' the text in that row turns red.
hth & regards,
Carl
Carl Are you on 10.1? Do you have any instances where you have different versions in those columns, either one direction or the other? I believe, in the old days, that the Avail. version was what was on your installation CD and the Inst. version was either that version or a later version you had installed via YOU, isn't that the way it worked? I guess you could have also installed a version that was earlier than what was shipped on the CD, but I never did that. Under 10.1, it just doesn't appear to be working that way any more, but maybe I'm wrong. I say that because I have installed multiple patches since I first converted to 10.1, and I don't see a single instance under my summary of packages where the Inst. version is greater than the Avail. version. Looks sort of like that feature is no longer working. Greg W -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Sunday 16 July 2006 14:24, Greg Wallace wrote:
Are you on 10.1?
Not regularly ;-) I've decided to let 10.1 'mature' a bit before making it my 'daily desktop' so I'm regularly running 10.0 and keeping my previous 9.3 as a 'backup'. The convention I described is as the system works up to and including 10.0. The important point being that, as you add and remove installation sources, the module compares what is available on those sources to what is actually installed. If you remove your original installation source, for example the DVD, and replace that source with 'factory' (not a recommendation!) the package versions listed under 'Avail Ver' reflect factory, not your original installation source. OTOH, if you simply *add* another installation source to the list and retain the original, 'Avail Ver' will display the latest version it can find while looking across all of the sources you've defined. I don't know if this is how things are working (or broken) in 10.1 as I've put off attempting the transition for a bit. Carl -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Sunday, July 16, 2006 @ 1:36 PM, Carl Hartung wrote:
On Sunday 16 July 2006 14:24, Greg Wallace wrote:
Are you on 10.1?
Not regularly ;-) I've decided to let 10.1 'mature' a bit before making it my 'daily desktop' so I'm regularly running 10.0 and keeping my previous 9.3 as a 'backup'.
The convention I described is as the system works up to and including 10.0.
The important point being that, as you add and remove installation sources,
the module compares what is available on those sources to what is actually installed. If you remove your original installation source, for example the
DVD, and replace that source with 'factory' (not a recommendation!) the package versions listed under 'Avail Ver' reflect factory, not your original installation source. OTOH, if you simply *add* another installation source to the list and retain the original, 'Avail Ver' will display the latest version it can find while looking across all of the sources you've defined.
I don't know if this is how things are working (or broken) in 10.1 as I've put off attempting the transition for a bit.
Carl
You raise an interesting point. Back in earlier versions (not sure how far back, but I think up through 10.0?), you had the single installation source (your CD's or your DVD) and then you had the patches coming from YOU. Now, everything is lumped together as installation sources (your DVD/CDs and whatever mirrors you are going against). That being the case, then maybe the definition of Avail. vs Inst. is now different. Maybe you'd only have different numbers there if you went out and looked for updates and then decided not to install them. Once installed, then avail. will always equal inst. in that scenario, with avail. constantly being updated along with inst. In the old world, avail. was just what was on the original CDs/DVDs and never changed, so you would have different values for those as soon as you applied a patch to a package. Just speculation on my part, but it would explain why I never see different numbers in those columns any more. Greg Wallace -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Sunday 16 July 2006 16:16, Greg Wallace wrote:
Now, everything is lumped together as installation sources (your DVD/CDs and whatever mirrors you are going against). That being the case, then maybe the definition of Avail. vs Inst. is now different.
'Avail Ver' reflects the newest version that YaST can 'see' in in installation sources you've defined. 'Inst Ver' ("Installed Version") doesn't change unless and until you downgrade, upgrade or update a package. Note: this value resides in your rpm database. It doesn't get populated by data from an installation source.
Just speculation on my part, but it would explain why I never see different numbers in those columns any more.
I believe your interpretation of this arrangement in 10.1 is correct. If you update your system every time an update becomes available, you're keeping the system 'in sync' with the online repositories. My guess is the field is still used in cases where you get 'decoupled' from the online repositories and/or you need to intervene manually. Carl -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Sunday, July 16, 2006 @ 4:06 PM, Carl Hartung wrote:
On Sunday 16 July 2006 16:16, Greg Wallace wrote:
Now, everything is lumped together as installation sources (your DVD/CDs and whatever mirrors you are going against). That being the case, then maybe the definition of Avail. vs Inst. is now different.
'Avail Ver' reflects the newest version that YaST can 'see' in in installation sources you've defined.
'Inst Ver' ("Installed Version") doesn't change unless and until you downgrade, upgrade or update a package. Note: this value resides in your rpm database. It doesn't get populated by data from an installation source.
But we're saying that the "Installed Version" does get populated from the installation source as soon as you apply the patch, right? In other words, Installed Version and Available Version will always stay in sync as long as you keep updating every time an update becomes available.
Just speculation on my part, but it would explain why I never see different numbers in those columns any more.
I believe your interpretation of this arrangement in 10.1 is correct. If you update your system every time an update becomes available, you're keeping the system 'in sync' with the online repositories. My guess is the field is still used in cases where you get 'decoupled' from the online repositories and/or
you need to intervene manually.
Carl
Greg Wallace -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Sunday 16 July 2006 18:20, Greg Wallace wrote:
But we're saying that the "Installed Version" does get populated from the installation source as soon as you apply the patch, right? In other words, Installed Version and Available Version will always stay in sync as long as you keep updating every time an update becomes available.
The value displayed in 'Inst Ver' *always* originates from the rpm database. If you change the status of a package (install, uninstall, apply a patch, upgrade or downgrade) the number displayed in 'Inst Ver' changes accordingly. The value displayed in 'Avail Ver' *always* originates from your defined installation sources. If you have ten sources defined carrying three different versions of a package, the *newest* version available across all of your sources will be displayed in 'Avail Ver' Carl -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Sunday, July 16, 2006 @ 5:50 PM, Carl Hartung wrote:
On Sunday 16 July 2006 18:20, Greg Wallace wrote:
But we're saying that the "Installed Version" does get populated from the installation source as soon as you apply the patch, right? In other words, Installed Version and Available Version will always stay in sync as long as you keep updating every time an update becomes available.
The value displayed in 'Inst Ver' *always* originates from the rpm database. If you change the status of a package (install, uninstall, apply a patch, upgrade or downgrade) the number displayed in 'Inst Ver' changes accordingly.
The value displayed in 'Avail Ver' *always* originates from your defined installation sources. If you have ten sources defined carrying three different versions of a package, the *newest* version available across all of your sources will be displayed in 'Avail Ver'
Carl
Ok. So if I'm following you, in the example I gave, if I went out with YOU and saw new updates available, canceled out of YOU, and went into Software management, I would see the "available" versions for the packages I saw as available for update as having a higher version than the installed packages. Once I installed them, the numbers would then be the same again, with the newer available version having replaced the installed version in that Software Management list for those now updated packages. Right? It makes sense, it's just different from the way I remember it working some time back (not sure how long it's been since I examined these numbers). At one point in time, the left number was always what was on your original CD/DVD. Then, after you installed a patch, the number on the right was the later release. At any given time, you could go in and see what packages were still the original CD/DVD version and which ones had been upgraded via YOU somewhere along the way. The number on the left never changed. Maybe the way this works changed before 10.1 and I just never noticed it. Anyway, thanks for explaining it to me. Greg Wallace -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Sunday 16 July 2006 21:18, Greg Wallace wrote:
Ok. So if I'm following you, in the example I gave, if I went out with YOU and saw new updates available, canceled out of YOU, and went into Software management, I would see the "available" versions for the packages I saw as available for update as having a higher version than the installed packages.
No, you're conflating 'YaST Online Update' (YOU) with the 'Install and Remove Software' (later 'Software Management') module. In prior releases, at least since 8.x and up through 10.0, 'YaST Installation Sources' (ftp, http, DVD/CD, hard disk directory, etc.) were completely separate from the YaST Online Update ('YOU') 'patch/update' distribution process... the former were complete installation sources for the distribution whereas the latter were devoted exclusively to disseminating security patches and a small set of optional packages like the MS Truetype fonts, 'Multimedia Packs' (9.3), special NIC firmware, proprietary graphics drivers, etc.. IOW, under the 'original' system, security patches and optional packages showed up *only* in YOU and *not* in YaST's 'Install and Remove Software' (later 'Software Management') module. The rationale behind this was the fact that the security patches and optional packages were disseminated through the mirrors in separate 'update' directories. You could *not* configure an 'update' directory as a regular "installation source" because it a) lacked the metadata needed by the 'Software Management' module and b) only contained security patches and optional packages. Anyway, these systems have evolved beginning with 10.1 and, since they're a moving target and I haven't fully absorbed them yet, I'll leave it to others to clarify the differences. Carl -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Sunday, July 16, 2006 @ 9:12 PM, Carl Hartung wrote:
On Sunday 16 July 2006 21:18, Greg Wallace wrote:
Ok. So if I'm following you, in the example I gave, if I went out with YOU and saw new updates available, canceled out of YOU, and went into Software management, I would see the "available" versions for the packages I saw as available for update as having a higher version than the installed packages.
No, you're conflating 'YaST Online Update' (YOU) with the 'Install and Remove Software' (later 'Software Management') module.
In prior releases, at least since 8.x and up through 10.0, 'YaST Installation Sources' (ftp, http, DVD/CD, hard disk directory, etc.) were completely separate from the YaST Online Update ('YOU') 'patch/update' distribution process... the former were complete installation sources for the distribution whereas the latter were devoted exclusively to disseminating security patches and a small set of optional packages like the MS Truetype fonts, 'Multimedia Packs' (9.3), special NIC firmware, proprietary graphics drivers, etc..
IOW, under the 'original' system, security patches and optional packages showed up *only* in YOU and *not* in YaST's 'Install and Remove Software' (later 'Software Management') module.
Actually, under 8.1 for sure, whenever I applied a patch via YOU, that patch would show up under Software Management (or whatever it was called in that version) under the second version column. The first version column was always the version from the original CDs. So, I could go into Software Management at any time and see which packages were still in their original state and which ones had been patched at some point along the way. That's why I noticed the difference in 10.1. Based on your explanation, now, once a package has been updated, you will never again see the version that was from the original DVD in the left column. Based on your explanation, that's just the way it is now supposed to work now. I had just never noticed that difference until today. I think I liked the old way better. I mean, if you want to know if there's something new out there you can let the Software Updater notify you (if it's working) or run YOU and see if there are any new packages available. So, it seems like having that history of original vs current out in Software Management would still be useful information to have, but maybe there's an advantage to having it the way it is now that I'm just not seeing.
The rationale behind this >was the fact that the security patches and optional packages were disseminated through the mirrors in separate 'update' directories. You could *not* configure an 'update' directory as a regular "installation source" because it a) lacked the metadata needed by the 'Software Management' module and b) only contained security patches and optional packages.
Anyway, these systems have evolved beginning with 10.1 and, since they're a
moving target and I haven't fully absorbed them yet, I'll leave it to others to clarify the differences.
Carl
Greg W -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Sunday 16 July 2006 23:17, Greg Wallace wrote:
Actually, under 8.1 for sure, whenever I applied a patch via YOU, that patch would show up under Software Management (or whatever it was called in that version) under the second version column.
These basic functions haven't changed from 8.1 through 10.0: In 'Software Management' (formerly 'Install and Remove Software'), the two columns we've been discussing are "Inst Ver", which logically displays "installed versions" of packages and "Avail Ver", which displays the latest "available" versions that YaST can 'see' across your configured installation sources. "Inst Ver" starts out empty until the original package is installed. The first installed version is usually the original suppled with the distribution. Thereafter, the version displayed under "Inst Ver" actually *advances* with each applied patch and newer installed rpm (for example, from the 'Supplementary' branch.) The version displayed under "Inst Ver" is stored in the rpm database. "Avail Ver" has *never* displayed bug-fix/security patches nor the optional packages I previously described. Patches and the optional packages have *always* been distributed by SUSE through YaST Online Update (YOU.) Moreover, "Avail Ver" *always* displays the latest version that YaST can 'see' in your configured installation sources. You can check this behavior out by temporarily adding an online 'Supplementary' branch installation source. When you then open the 'Software Management' module, any newer versions provided in the Supplementary branch will be displayed in the "Avail Ver" column. If you then delete the Supplementary installation source, the version numbers displayed under "Avail Ver" will revert to their previous values.
The first version column was always the version from the original CDs.
This is only true if a package is never patched via YOU or upgraded to a later version (again, for example, from a Supplementary repository.) The "first column" is labeled "Inst Ver" ("installed version") for a _reason_.
So, I could go into Software Management at any time and see which packages were still in their original state and which ones had been patched at some point along the way.
In 'Software Management', if you select an individual package by clicking on it's row to highlight it, you can then select the 'Versions' tab in the lower-right pane and review the version history starting at the original version number. This is the only method I'm aware of where you can see if "Inst Ver" is newer than the version that was originally installed.
That's why I noticed the difference in 10.1. Based on your explanation, now, once a package has been updated, you will never again see the version that was from the original DVD in the left column.
My explanation did *not* cover 10.1. It covered '8.x through 10.0'... please read my previous post again. Besides, what you've indicated here is actually true from at least 8.1 though 10.0 but I don't yet know how it's handed under 10.1.
Based on your explanation, that's just the way it is now supposed to work now. I had just never noticed that difference until today. I think I liked the old way better.
I don't understand how you've managed to misconstrue what I've written. I said the exact opposite. The "old way" is as I described it in my previous post and *again* as I've described it above.
I mean, if you want to know if there's something new out there you can let the Software Updater notify you (if it's working) or run YOU and see if there are any new packages available.
What??? YOU *is not* the same as 'Software Management'. YOU accesses special 'update' directories where bug-fix/security patches and certain optional packages are distributed. 'Software Management' uses proper installation sources (or "repositories") such as CD/DVD, ftp, http, hard disk directory, etc. In other words, the 'YaST Online Update' (YOU) and 'Software Management' modules serve related but very *different* functions. The first handles only bug-fix/security patches and optional packages. The second handles packages stored in proper installation "repositories". Again, this has been true from 8.1 through 10.0... I'm not discussing 10.1 at this time.
So, it seems like having that history of original vs current out in Software Management would still be useful information to have, but maybe there's an advantage to having it the way it is now that I'm just not seeing.
I'm off to bed now. Have a great night! Carl -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
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Carl Hartung -
Greg Wallace