John B wrote:

<snip> I'll try and re-install W98 with it hooked up as the slave and see if that makes any difference and let everyone know what happens. <snip>

Do NOT do this, do not even try it. Don't even think about trying it. At best, the Win98 installer will refuse to run, and at worst, you will lose your entire LInux installation. Win98 can only be installed on the first hard drive. All you need to do is verify that /boot/grub/menu.lst contains a Windows 98 section similar to what Catimimi posted, namely: title Windows 98 map (hd0) (hd1) map (hd1) (hd0) rootnoverify (hd0,0) chainloader +1 Note this is a slight change of what was suggested previously. First, on re-reading the grub documentation, I believe that rootnoverify is a better command to use here than just root. Second, you have just remapped the drives, in the first two commands, so the slave drive, where Win98 is installed, is now referred to as (hd0). Thus the Windows root (drive C:) should now be (hd0,0), not (hd1,0). If this doesn't work, then change it to (hd1,0) as Catimimi suggested. You must also tell grub precisely what device (hd1) is. In /boot/grub/device.map make sure there is a line reading (hd1) /dev/hdb If grub is already installed and working, you don't need to do anything else. Optionally, if you want or need to access the Windows stuff from Linux, you have to create a mount point for it and add a corresponding entry in /etc/fstab.

Felix Miata wrote:

Darryl Gregorash wrote:

...

Win98 can only be installed on the first hard drive.

Win98 can only be installed on C:. If there are no primary partitions on the first hard drive, then C: cannot be on it, which means if the only primary is on /dev/hdd, then that's where C: will be, and that's where doze will install.

He already has Win98 installed on that drive, having replaced his existing Linux drive with it just for this purporse. In this particular instance, we aren't going to be bothered by any installation issues. I am certainly not going to try the scenario you describe here with anything already installed on the first drive. win98 is basically not much more than an enhancement of 95, which is just Win 3.1 remixed -- and that makes it nothing more than DOS with a GUI. AFAIK, DOS has never been able to mount C: on anything other than what it recognizes as the first hard drive, and at the very least that is where it will place its MBR. Fortunately, we are not faced with such considerations in this particular case. (Referring to your webpage here, I don't recall any OS/2 LVM capability, up to and including Warp4 FP13, which is when I switched to SuSE. Did I miss something in all those fixpacks? Or even earlier? In fact, I also do not recall OS/2 being able to mount C: on anything other than the first hard drive, although I never presented it with a situation where it would be required to do so.)

With any normal recent BIOS, you can make /dev/hdd, c or b be the first hard drive...

Thanks for this info. In this remote backwater of the planet, I havent' had an opportunity to work on such recent systems, and it's welcome news. In about 15 years, this is all we'll ever see -- it will probably take that long (*) for the whole planet to get rid of all older systems :-) As for "dual" vs "multi", this is stuff that I first read about and set aside a very long time ago, in the days of OS/2 2.1, and had not bothered with it since then. Reading your webpage (**) brings back memories of sitting in my chair with the 2.1 book in front of me, wondering "if someone has OS/2 why on earth would he still want to have DOS around?" It would have been a different story, I am sure, if any one of my games had not run in an OS/2 DOS session :-) (*) Or longer. Only a few weeks ago, a friend asked me to install W2K on his girlfriend's system -- a 486, which is not about to be replaced anytime soon. (**) Cue in a certain famous Bob Hope vocal selection.

Darryl Gregorash wrote Sat, 12 Feb 2005 14:57:13 -0600:

AFAIK, DOS has never been able to mount C: on anything other than what it recognizes as the first hard drive, and at the very least that is where it will place its MBR.

But we have tricks to make it think it's on the 1st HD, and so it doesn't really need to be there. Any modern BIOS can perform the trickery, but it's easier with grub or lilo.

(Referring to your webpage here, I don't recall any OS/2 LVM capability, up to and including Warp4 FP13, which is when I switched to SuSE. Did I miss something in all those fixpacks? Or even

Shortly after you left. Warp 4 became MCP (merlin convenience pack) after FP15. With MCP came LVM from WSeB. A bit later Serenity Systems released MCP as eComStation 1.0, which is currently at 1.2. MCP became MCP2 at MCP FP level 2, and is currently at FP level 4. IIRC, the eCS 1.2 was released at MCP FP level 3.

earlier? In fact, I also do not recall OS/2 being able to mount C: on anything other than the first hard drive, although I never presented it with a situation where it would be required to do so.)

As long as IBM BM is installed, OS/2 can have its C: on any HD. OS/2 hasn't required C: to be the boot drive in any version I've used, 2.0-up.

As for "dual" vs "multi", this is stuff that I first read about and set aside a very long time ago, in the days of OS/2 2.1, and had not bothered with it since then. Reading your webpage (**) brings back memories of sitting in my chair with the 2.1 book in front of me, wondering "if someone has OS/2 why on earth would he still want to have DOS around?" It would have been a different story, I am sure, if any one of my games had not run in an OS/2 DOS session :-)

Great DOS apps are why I still run OS/2 24/7. Mebbe someday I can figure out how to make them work as well on Linux. (without installing OS/2 in a VM. ;-) ) I just took the kids machine (no Linux), for which I had just cloned a HD as a backup, and tested what is possible without grub or lilo: Following is prepped to boot from OS/2 on /dev/hdc1 as C: (semi-normal configuration, with both OS/2 & W98 primaries "hidden". normally one or the other would be "visible".) DFSee version 6.17 14-12-2004 (c) 1994-2004: Jan van Wijk # My Disk/Partition comments column =========================[ www.dfsee.com ]========================== OS version : OS/2 4.50 OS2kernel: 14.091_UNI on drive C: DFSee OS/2 6.17 : executing: map -r -m Execute timestamp : Saturday 12-02-2005 03:04:05 Number of disks : 2 P-Geo Disk 1 Cyl : 4092 H: 16 S:63 Size : 003EF040 = 2014.0 MiB L-Geo Disk 1 Cyl : 1023 H: 64 S:63 bps: 512 Size : 003EF040 = 2014.0 MiB BIOS Int13 limit : none, no limit Size : 2014.0 MiB MBR crc 2e1e78bc : bfc116e1 = Classic MS or IBM MBR code P-Geo Disk 2 Cyl : 4983 H: 16 S:63 Size : 004CA490 = 2452.6 MiB L-Geo Disk 2 Cyl : 622 H:128 S:63 bps: 512 Size : 004C8900 = 2449.1 MiB BIOS Int13 limit : none, no limit Size : 2449.1 MiB MBR crc 054b4eb9 : 0c8ca699 = DFSee 5.xx/6.xx English messages, I13X +-------------------------------------+ | |+=========++==++=========+=========================================| | || || || |+-----------------------++--------------+| |m||1 ||2 ||3 ||4 ||5 || |b|| || || ||D- ||E- || |r||HPFS ||BM||FAT16 ||FAT32 ||FAT16 || | || || || |+-----------------------++--------------+| | |+=========++==++=========+=========================================| +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ +--------<Fujitsu M1638TAU>---------------------------------+ | |+========++====++========+==================================================| | || || || |+-------------------++------------++-------------+| |m||6 ||7 ||8 ||9 ||10 ||11 || |b||C: || ||-c ||Fd ||Ge ||-f || |r||HPFS ||BMGR||FAT16 ||FAT32 ||FAT16 ||- || | || || || |+-------------------++------------++-------------+| | |+========++====++========+==================================================| +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ DFSee OS/2 6.17 : executing: fdisk -r- Execute timestamp : Saturday 12-02-2005 03:04:07 Pid07= warning : Active (bootable), but not on 1st disk Requires modern BIOS or smart MBR code to boot Pid07= WARNING : IBM BootManager found on disk other than 1 Pid11=-f WARNING : Not formatted or invalid boot record +---+--+-----------------+--+--------+--------+-----------+-----------+--------+ |ID |Dr|Type, description|ux|Format |Related |VolumeLabel|LVM Volume,|Size MiB| +---+-------------+--------+-------------------+ Normal BIOS boot order |01*| |Hide 17 Inst-FSys| 1|HPFS |IBM 4.50|WD2 P1 |WD2 P1 OS/2| 23.5| Normal OS/2 boot (current boot immediately before shutdown) |02>| |Prim 0a IBM-BMGR | 2|BMGR |LVM |I13X-aware |, [ BOOT MA| 1.9| |03*| |Hide 16 FAT16 | 3|FAT16 |MSWIN4.1|WD2 P3 |WD2 P3 Win | 23.6| Normal W98 boot |04 |D-|Log 0b FAT32 | 5|FAT32 |MSWIN4.1|WD2 P5 | | 1712.7| Normal W98 run |05 |E-|Log 06 FAT16 | 6|FAT16 |MSWIN4.1|WD2 P6 |WD2 P6, WD2| 251.9| Normal W98 data +---+-------------+--------+-----------<Fujitsu M16>--------+ Normal BIOS boot order |06*|C:|Prim 07 Inst-FSys| 1|HPFS |IBM 4.50|FUJI25 P1 |Fujitsu 25 | 23.5| |07}| |Prim 0a IBM-BMGR | 2|BMGR |LVM |I13X-aware |, [ BOOT MA| 3.9| |08*|-c|Hide 16 FAT16 | 3|FAT16 |MSWIN4.1|FUJI25 P3 |Fujitsu 25 | 23.6| |09 |Fd|Log 0b FAT32 | 5|FAT32 |MSWIN4.1|FUJI25 P5 |Fujitsu 25 | 1712.7| |10 |Ge|Log 06 FAT16 | 6|FAT16 |MSWIN4.1|FUJI25 P6 |Fujitsu 25 | 251.9| |11 |-f|Lhid 17 Inst-FSys| 7|- |unknown | |Fujitsu 25 | 433.0| +---+--+-----------------+--+--------+--------+-----------+-----------+--------+ (Fujitsu is disk 2 mirror of disk 1) EOF Following is prepped to BIOS switch /dev/hda & /dev/hdc for W98 boot from real /dev/hdc3 as C: DFSee version 6.17 14-12-2004 (c) 1994-2004: Jan van Wijk =========================[ www.dfsee.com ]========================== OS version : OS/2 4.50 OS2kernel: 14.091_UNI on drive C: DFSee OS/2 6.17 : executing: map -r -m Execute timestamp : Saturday 12-02-2005 03:12:20 Number of disks : 2 P-Geo Disk 1 Cyl : 4092 H: 16 S:63 Size : 003EF040 = 2014.0 MiB L-Geo Disk 1 Cyl : 1023 H: 64 S:63 bps: 512 Size : 003EF040 = 2014.0 MiB BIOS Int13 limit : none, no limit Size : 2014.0 MiB MBR crc 2e1e78bc : bfc116e1 = Classic MS or IBM MBR code P-Geo Disk 2 Cyl : 4983 H: 16 S:63 Size : 004CA490 = 2452.6 MiB L-Geo Disk 2 Cyl : 622 H:128 S:63 bps: 512 Size : 004C8900 = 2449.1 MiB BIOS Int13 limit : none, no limit Size : 2449.1 MiB MBR crc 054b4eb9 : 0c8ca699 = DFSee 5.xx/6.xx English messages, I13X +-------------------------------------+ | | |===================================================| | | |+----------------------------++-------------------+| |m|1 ||1 ||2 || |b| ||D- ||E- || |r|FreeSpace Pri/L||unknown ||FAT16 || | | |+----------------------------++-------------------+| | | |===================================================| +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ +--------<Fujitsu M1638TAU>---------------------------------+ | |+========++====++========+==================================================| | || || || |+-------------------++------------++-------------+| |m||3 ||4 ||5 ||6 ||7 ||8 || |b||C: || ||-c ||Fd ||Ge ||-f || |r||HPFS ||BMGR||FAT16 ||FAT32 ||FAT16 ||- || | || || || |+-------------------++------------++-------------+| | |+========++====++========+==================================================| +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ DFSee OS/2 6.17 : executing: fdisk -r- Execute timestamp : Saturday 12-02-2005 03:12:22 Pid01=D- WARNING : NO partition is marked active on the first disk Booting requires modern BIOS or smart MBR code! Pid04= warning : Active (bootable), but not on 1st disk Requires modern BIOS or smart MBR code to boot Pid04= WARNING : There is no IBM BootManager present on disk 1, to use it you either need to have it on disk 1, or your BIOS must support booting from a disk other than the first one Pid08=-f WARNING : Not formatted or invalid boot record +---+--+-----------------+--+--------+--------+-----------+-----------+--------+ |ID |Dr|Type, description|ux|Format |Related |VolumeLabel|LVM Volume,|Size MiB| +---+-------------+--------+-------------------+ Normal BIOS HD order |01 | |FreeSpace Pri/Log| |-- -- --|-- -- --|- - - - - -| | 49.2| (all primaries "removed") |01 |D-|Log 8b Unknown | 5|unknown |MSWIN4.1| | | 1712.7| |02 |E-|Log 8b Unknown | 6|FAT16 |MSWIN4.1| |WD2 P6, WD2| 251.9| +---+-------------+--------+-----------<Fujitsu M16>--------+ Normal BIOS HD order (DFSee reports /dev/hdc as /dev/hdb) |03*|C:|Prim 07 Inst-FSys| 1|HPFS |IBM 4.50|FUJI25 P1 |Fujitsu 25 | 23.5| Current OS/2 boot |04}| |Prim 0a IBM-BMGR | 2|BMGR |LVM |I13X-aware |, [ BOOT MA| 3.9| |05*|-c|Hide 16 FAT16 | 3|FAT16 |MSWIN4.1|FUJI25 P3 |Fujitsu 25 | 23.6| |06 |Fd|Log 0b FAT32 | 5|FAT32 |MSWIN4.1|FUJI25 P5 |Fujitsu 25 | 1712.7| |07 |Ge|Log 06 FAT16 | 6|FAT16 |MSWIN4.1|FUJI25 P6 |Fujitsu 25 | 251.9| |08 |-f|Lhid 17 Inst-FSys| 7|- |unknown | |Fujitsu 25 | 433.0| +---+--+-----------------+--+--------+--------+-----------+-----------+--------+ EOF Following is with BIOS reversed /dev/hda & /dev/hdc: (100% software HD swap) DFSee version 6.17 14-12-2004 (c) 1994-2004: Jan van Wijk OS version : DOS 7.10 OemVer ff: Microsoft Windows-9x DFSee Dos32 6.17 : executing: map -r -m Execute timestamp : Saturday 12-02-2005 03:28:35 Number of disks : 2 Ext Int13 version : 2.1 flags: 0005 Support for GetParam, Read and Write: yes Extended Int-13 : Present, will not be used (<1024 or -I used) P-Geo Disk 1 Cyl : 4983 H: 16 S:63 Size : 004CA490 = 2452.6 MiB L-Geo Disk 1 Cyl : 622 H:128 S:63 bps: 512 Size : 004C8900 = 2449.1 MiB BIOS Int13 limit : none, no limit Size : 2449.1 MiB MBR crc 054b4eb9 : 0c8ca699 = DFSee 5.xx/6.xx English messages, I13X Ext Int13 version : 2.1 flags: 0005 Support for GetParam, Read and Write: yes Extended Int-13 : Present, will not be used (<1024 or -I used) P-Geo Disk 2 Cyl : 4092 H: 16 S:63 Size : 003EF040 = 2014.0 MiB L-Geo Disk 2 Cyl : 1023 H: 64 S:63 bps: 512 Size : 003EF040 = 2014.0 MiB BIOS Int13 limit : none, no limit Size : 2014.0 MiB MBR crc 2e1e78bc : bfc116e1 = Classic MS or IBM MBR code +--------<Fujitsu M1638TAU>---------------------------------+ | |+========++====++========+==================================================| | || || || |+-------------------++------------++-------------+| |m||1 ||2 ||3 ||4 ||5 ||6 || |b||-c || ||-c ||-d ||-e ||-f || |r||HPFS ||BMGR||FAT16 ||FAT32 ||FAT16 ||- || | || || || |+-------------------++------------++-------------+| | |+========++====++========+==================================================| +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +-------------------------------------+ | |+=========++==++=========+=========================================| | || || || |+-----------------------++--------------+| |m||7 ||8 ||9 ||10 ||11 || |b||-c || ||-c || || || |r||HPFS ||BM||FAT16 ||unknown ||FAT16 || | || || || |+-----------------------++--------------+| | |+=========++==++=========+=========================================| +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ DFSee Dos32 6.17 : executing: fdisk -r- Execute timestamp : Saturday 12-02-2005 03:28:37 Pid06=-f WARNING : Not formatted or invalid boot record Pid08= WARNING : IBM BootManager found on disk other than 1 +---+--+-----------------+--+--------+--------+-----------+-----------+--------+ |ID |Dr|Type, description|ux|Format |Related |VolumeLabel|LVM Volume,|Size MiB| +---+-------------+--------+-----------<Fujitsu M16>--------+ BIOS boot order D:=1 makes actual /dev/hdc report as /dev/hda here |01*|-c|Hide 17 Inst-FSys| 1|HPFS |IBM 4.50|FUJI25 P1 |Fujitsu 25 | 23.5| |02>| |Prim 0a IBM-BMGR | 2|BMGR |LVM |I13X-aware |, [ BOOT MA| 3.9| |03*|-c|Prim 06 FAT16 | 3|FAT16 |MSWIN4.1|FUJI25 P3 |Fujitsu 25 | 23.6| Current W98 C: boot |04 |-d|Log 0b FAT32 | 5|FAT32 |MSWIN4.1|FUJI25 P5 |Fujitsu 25 | 1712.7| Current W98 D: run |05 |-e|Log 06 FAT16 | 6|FAT16 |MSWIN4.1|FUJI25 P6 |Fujitsu 25 | 251.9| Current W98 E: data |06 |-f|Lhid 17 Inst-FSys| 7|- |unknown | |Fujitsu 25 | 433.0| +---+-------------+--------+-------------------+ BIOS boot order D:=1 makes actual /dev/hda report as /dev/hdb here |07*|-c|Hide 17 Inst-FSys| 1|HPFS |IBM 4.50|WD2 P1 |WD2 P1, WD2| 23.5| (original partition undeleted) |08 | |Prim 0a IBM-BMGR | 2|BMGR |LVM |I13X-aware |WD2 P2, WD2| 1.9| (original partition undeleted) |09*|-c|Hide 16 FAT16 | 3|FAT16 |MSWIN4.1|WD2 P3 |WD2 P3, WD2| 23.6| (original partition undeleted) |10 | |Log 8b Unknown | 5|unknown |MSWIN4.1| | | 1712.7| |11 | |Log 8b Unknown | 6|FAT16 |MSWIN4.1| |WD2 P6, WD2| 251.9| +---+--+-----------------+--+--------+--------+-----------+-----------+--------+ EOF -- "He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die." John 11:25 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/partitioningindex.html

Bruce Marshall wrote:

On Saturday 12 February 2005 07:06 pm, Felix Miata wrote:

...

Great DOS apps are why I still run OS/2 24/7. Mebbe someday I can figure out how to make them work as well on Linux. (without installing OS/2 in a VM. ;-) )

It's a snap... and DOS apps do run nicely on Linux.

I used to run only OS/2 and figured it would take me a long time to switch totally to linux... because of DOS apps. It took less than a week and I haven't looked back. I still have a bootable OS/2 machine here... hasn't been booted in at least 4 years.

I wasn't referring to dumb 80x25 stuff. I meant SGVA text mode apps. -- "He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die." John 11:25 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/

Randall R Schulz wrote:

On Saturday 12 February 2005 16:06, Felix Miata wrote:

...

Great DOS apps are why I still run OS/2 24/7. Mebbe someday I can figure out how to make them work as well on Linux. (without installing OS/2 in a VM. ;-) )

I'm intrigued by the notion that there are DOS applications that are still relevant (let alone "great") today. Could you list them?

Words and numbers need no GUI, and proportional fonts really get in the way in a spreadsheet. So, Paradox for DOS Quattro Pro for DOS functioning as an integrated set. I still like WordPerfect for DOS too. There's really no substitute for visible codes. OTOH, printing from GUI to dot matrix is always dismal. Printed words and numbers don't need a GUI either. My Citizen GSX-140+ printer is 15 years old, and too good to retire any time soon. Nobody makes anything designed to last so long any more anyway. -- "He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die." John 11:25 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/

On Saturday 12 February 2005 09:02 pm, Felix Miata wrote:

Words and numbers need no GUI, and proportional fonts really get in the way in a spreadsheet. So,

        Paradox for DOS         Quattro Pro for DOS

functioning as an integrated set. I still like WordPerfect for DOS too. There's really no substitute for visible codes.

Add in: dBaseIII ??

On Monday 14 February 2005 12:51 am, Carl William Spitzer IV wrote:

Dont forget WordSTAR for dos which allows me to produce clean ascii output which I cant do in win32 or in nix.

I hope to write a OOo printer driver to print to files in the same way that WordSTAR does. Have you tried WordSTAR under DOSBOX or DOSEMU? -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9

Felix, On Saturday 12 February 2005 18:02, Felix Miata wrote:

Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

On Saturday 12 February 2005 16:06, Felix Miata wrote:

...

Great DOS apps are why I still run OS/2 24/7. Mebbe someday I can figure out how to make them work as well on Linux. (without installing OS/2 in a VM. ;-) )

I'm intrigued by the notion that there are DOS applications that are still relevant (let alone "great") today. Could you list them?

Words and numbers need no GUI, and proportional fonts really get in the way in a spreadsheet. So,

GUI spreadsheets give you font control, you know. You're by no means forced to use proportionally spaced fonts. On the other hand, under a character matrix UI you do not have the option of proportional fonts. Face it: What you're really fond of is what you're familiar with using. I strongly doubt there are any DOS applications with true superiority to applications available as native Linux apps. RRS

Randall R Schulz wrote:

Face it: What you're really fond of is what you're familiar with using. I strongly doubt there are any DOS applications with true superiority to applications available as native Linux apps.

There's something to be said for familiarity. I learned 1-2-3 over 20 years ago, and am still using 1-2-3 menus in Quattro Pro as a native language. No steenkin mouse required. DOS apps get by on infinitesimal amounts of RAM. Lotsa reasons to like DOS apps. Also, DOS apps on modern hardware do everything faster than the speed of light. ;-) -- "He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die." John 11:25 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/

Stanley Long wrote:

GTCO now owns CalComp wide format engineering document scanner stuff. "Important! The models listed above are not supported under Windows 2000 and later. Software for these models will not be developed any further."

I used to repair and maintain CalComp disk pack drives.