[opensuse] possible kernel panic on install attempts
Here's a strange one. Sorry it's so long but I am at my diagnostic end with this.... I have a system (and 3 other identical ones) that uses a Tyan S2098AGN motherboard, 2.1GHZ Celeron w/512MB ram. I have been running openSuse 10.0 to 10.2 without issues. The board has integrated video but only allows up to 8MB of the ram to be shared. I picked up some XFX GeForce MX5200 128MB video cards (low profile, pci not pci-e) and tried to install. The openSuse installer is gold until it reaches the "Resolving Kernel Dependencies" message at 58% and freezes. (10.3) I tried all version from 10.0 to 10.3 with the same results. I have also tried Ubuntu 7.10, Fedora 8, Linux Mint, many others. Every other Linux distro fails far before getting to their respective installers and I see failures in the text display showing trace callbacks or something like that. I don't remember the specifics and there doesn't seem to be a way to capture the information. I have tried 5 other branded cards and models all with the same results. I flashed the bios with all available updates and nothing works. Here is the clincher. I can install XP and PC-BSD and run them. I can also get Knoppix 3.4 to run (not the newer version). So near as I can figure there is some kernel issue. To add to the heartache, I have tried to disable and set every "safe" setting the motherboard offers with no effect. Does anyone have any suggestions other than getting new motherboards? No versions of Linux of the 6 or 7 I tried seem to work. Thanks in advance.... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2007/12/01 01:30 (GMT-0500) Clark P. Case apparently typed:
I have a system (and 3 other identical ones) that uses a Tyan S2098AGN motherboard, 2.1GHZ Celeron w/512MB ram. I have been running openSuse 10.0 to 10.2 without issues. The board has integrated video but only allows up to 8MB of the ram to be shared.
Why do you think this is a problem? Is this a BIOS option? I have a Celeron 2.4G test box with the same chipset: http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/va/index.htm Its BIOS offers a Frame Buffer Size selection of 512k, 1M & 8M. IIRC, the Intel Xorg video drivers aren't bothered by this seeming limitation. They have their own formula for deciding how much system RAM to use. I got SUSE Factory v10.3 installed on it running 24 bit 2048x1536 in Sept. or Oct., and Mandriva 2008. The latter's GUI installer wouldn't run on it, but it works dandy after having used the text installer. If you try using the integrated video and still can't get an installer to work, check to see if you have the latest MB BIOS. A newer one helped with framebuffer problems on mine. -- " A patriot without religion . . . is as great a paradox, as an honest man without the fear of God." John Adams Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2007/12/01 01:30 (GMT-0500) Clark P. Case apparently typed:
I have a system (and 3 other identical ones) that uses a Tyan S2098AGN motherboard, 2.1GHZ Celeron w/512MB ram. I have been running openSuse 10.0 to 10.2 without issues. The board has integrated video but only allows up to 8MB of the ram to be shared.
Why do you think this is a problem? Is this a BIOS option? I have a Celeron 2.4G test box with the same chipset: http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/va/index.htm
Its BIOS offers a Frame Buffer Size selection of 512k, 1M & 8M. IIRC, the Intel Xorg video drivers aren't bothered by this seeming limitation. They have their own formula for deciding how much system RAM to use. I got SUSE Factory v10.3 installed on it running 24 bit 2048x1536 in Sept. or Oct., and Mandriva 2008. The latter's GUI installer wouldn't run on it, but it works dandy after having used the text installer.
If you try using the integrated video and still can't get an installer to work, check to see if you have the latest MB BIOS. A newer one helped with framebuffer problems on mine. -- " A patriot without religion . . . is as great a paradox, as an honest man without the fear of God." John Adams
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409
Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ Thanks for your perspective. Unfortunately the core of my problem is not with the integrated video. I offered that information as background. I have been using the Intel Extreme graphics onboard and the Bios offers a
On Sat, 2007-12-01 at 11:40 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: frame buffer of either 1MB or 8MB. I can install and used all Linux distros with that setup without a problem. The problem lies in the fact that when I disable the onboard and install any other cards, that I get the kernel panic and it fails as later stated in the same paragraph. I feel strongly that this is a kernel issue and since i was able to get to a desktop on the old 3.4 version of Knoppix's live cd, that the problem exists in versions of the kernel greater that whatever version is included on that live cd. I know that it's obscure, but had hoped that others may have at least heard of a similar situation. I suppose I will have to stick with some form of BSD if I am to utilize the 4 128MB video cards I just $160 on but cannot used. It's not the cards, it is something to do with the PCI capabilities on the motherboard as it pertains to the Kernel but that is a guess from my troubleshooting. Just frustrating... Thanks again! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2007/12/02 03:12 (GMT-0500) Clark P. Case apparently typed:
On Sat, 2007-12-01 at 11:40 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2007/12/01 01:30 (GMT-0500) Clark P. Case apparently typed:
I have a system (and 3 other identical ones) that uses a Tyan S2098AGN motherboard, 2.1GHZ Celeron w/512MB ram. I have been running openSuse 10.0 to 10.2 without issues. ... I have a Celeron 2.4G test box with the same chipset: http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/va/index.htm ... I got SUSE Factory v10.3 installed on it running 24 bit 2048x1536 in Sept. or Oct., and Mandriva 2008. The latter's GUI installer wouldn't run on it, but it works dandy after having used the text installer. ... Thanks for your perspective. Unfortunately the core of my problem is not with the integrated video. I offered that information as background. I have been using the Intel Extreme graphics onboard and the Bios offers a frame buffer of either 1MB or 8MB. I can install and used all Linux distros with that setup without a problem. The problem lies in the fact that when I disable the onboard and install any other cards, that I get the kernel panic and it fails as later stated in the same paragraph.
On mine, "disabling" the onboard in the BIOS is not necessary. By default, if the BIOS finds an installed gfxcard, it makes the 845GL the secondary device. Possibly the kernel panic is related to gfxcard prioritization, and/or a defect in implementation of "disabling" in the 845GL chipset or motherboard BIOS that newer kernels uncover.
I feel strongly that this is a kernel issue and since i was able to get to a desktop on the old 3.4 version of Knoppix's live cd, that the problem exists in versions of the kernel greater that whatever version is included on that live cd. I know that it's obscure, but had hoped that others may have at least heard of a similar situation.
I suppose I will have to stick with some form of BSD if I am to utilize the 4 128MB video cards I just $160 on but cannot used. It's not the cards, it is something to do with the PCI capabilities on the motherboard as it pertains to the Kernel but that is a guess from my troubleshooting. Just frustrating...
Just another idea. The most I ever paid for a gfxcard was $60, but that was 10 or more years ago. I've since resolved to spending as little as possible on video, having just taken delivery of 3 8 year old 4X AGP cards @ $8.50 each as example. On further thought about installing Mandriva on my D845GLVA, I recall not using the text installer when the GUI installer wouldn't work with the onboard video, but instead sticking a really old PCI card in and using the GUI installer. I may have used a Matrox Millenium, but probably used an NVidia TNT2. I wonder for further troubleshooting purposes if an antique PCI spec gfxcard would also create the kernel panic? Yours are almost certainly newer than v2.1, while mine are certainly not. You did try both PCI slots, right? Is anything installed in the other? If so, does behavior change if it's removed? Are you using the v2.01 BIOS? FWIW, and this is probably no help, I've previously found with an Intel i810E chipset motherboard that the PCI slots were not far short of useless. Only certain cards would work in it, and then only if it was the only device populating a PCI slot. Using more than one PCI slot would prevent POST completion. Since it worked with older kernels, filing a kernel bug might be the best next thing to do. At least ask on the linux kernel mailing list. -- " Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, 2007-12-02 at 09:26 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2007/12/02 03:12 (GMT-0500) Clark P. Case apparently typed:
On Sat, 2007-12-01 at 11:40 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2007/12/01 01:30 (GMT-0500) Clark P. Case apparently typed:
I have a system (and 3 other identical ones) that uses a Tyan S2098AGN motherboard, 2.1GHZ Celeron w/512MB ram. I have been running openSuse 10.0 to 10.2 without issues. ... I have a Celeron 2.4G test box with the same chipset: http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/va/index.htm ... I got SUSE Factory v10.3 installed on it running 24 bit 2048x1536 in Sept. or Oct., and Mandriva 2008. The latter's GUI installer wouldn't run on it, but it works dandy after having used the text installer. ... Thanks for your perspective. Unfortunately the core of my problem is not with the integrated video. I offered that information as background. I have been using the Intel Extreme graphics onboard and the Bios offers a frame buffer of either 1MB or 8MB. I can install and used all Linux distros with that setup without a problem. The problem lies in the fact that when I disable the onboard and install any other cards, that I get the kernel panic and it fails as later stated in the same paragraph.
On mine, "disabling" the onboard in the BIOS is not necessary. By default, if the BIOS finds an installed gfxcard, it makes the 845GL the secondary device. Possibly the kernel panic is related to gfxcard prioritization, and/or a defect in implementation of "disabling" in the 845GL chipset or motherboard BIOS that newer kernels uncover.
I feel strongly that this is a kernel issue and since i was able to get to a desktop on the old 3.4 version of Knoppix's live cd, that the problem exists in versions of the kernel greater that whatever version is included on that live cd. I know that it's obscure, but had hoped that others may have at least heard of a similar situation.
I suppose I will have to stick with some form of BSD if I am to utilize the 4 128MB video cards I just $160 on but cannot used. It's not the cards, it is something to do with the PCI capabilities on the motherboard as it pertains to the Kernel but that is a guess from my troubleshooting. Just frustrating...
Just another idea. The most I ever paid for a gfxcard was $60, but that was 10 or more years ago. I've since resolved to spending as little as possible on video, having just taken delivery of 3 8 year old 4X AGP cards @ $8.50 each as example.
On further thought about installing Mandriva on my D845GLVA, I recall not using the text installer when the GUI installer wouldn't work with the onboard video, but instead sticking a really old PCI card in and using the GUI installer. I may have used a Matrox Millenium, but probably used an NVidia TNT2.
I wonder for further troubleshooting purposes if an antique PCI spec gfxcard would also create the kernel panic? Yours are almost certainly newer than v2.1, while mine are certainly not.
You did try both PCI slots, right? Is anything installed in the other? If so, does behavior change if it's removed? Are you using the v2.01 BIOS?
FWIW, and this is probably no help, I've previously found with an Intel i810E chipset motherboard that the PCI slots were not far short of useless. Only certain cards would work in it, and then only if it was the only device populating a PCI slot. Using more than one PCI slot would prevent POST completion.
Since it worked with older kernels, filing a kernel bug might be the best next thing to do. At least ask on the linux kernel mailing list. -- " Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409
Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ Thanks for the insight. I have tried both PCI slots (they are the only once available. There are no AGP or other slots. I also tried with the bios set to disable the onboard as well as leave the onboard enabled making the PCI VGA card a secondary. In addition, the bios allows you to specify which graphics source to initialize on. I have tried both onboard and pci slot.
I am thinking you are right about reporting it as a kernel issue. I have tried an old ATI Radeon 7000 and an Nvidia 64mb card from about 4 years ago as well as a couple of other cards. All yield the same results. I have tried both the GUI installs as well as the text only installs. I was able to get Debian 3.1 installed with much trouble but it booted into the command line only. I am not sure if I simply did not install it properly of if the disk was setup to install that way by default (It was a disk distributed by some magazine so it was not the official ISOs. How do I go about getting the full text that shows during the boot attempt? The OS is not installed so the messages file is not created, All I have to work with is the text from the boot attempt and after it fails I am unsure how to even scroll upwards to read the full report if that is even possible. Anyway, I have a strong feeling that I am not going to be able to resolve this and will have to use the cards in other machines and get new mainboards that don't have this eccentric problem.... Thanks in advance for your help. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2007/12/03 00:34 (GMT-0500) Clark P. Case apparently typed:
Thanks for the insight. I have tried both PCI slots (they are the only once available. There are no AGP or other slots. I also tried with the bios set to disable the onboard as well as leave the onboard enabled making the PCI VGA card a secondary. In addition, the bios allows you to specify which graphics source to initialize on. I have tried both onboard and pci slot.
I am thinking you are right about reporting it as a kernel issue. I have tried an old ATI Radeon 7000 and an Nvidia 64mb card from about 4 years ago as well as a couple of other cards. All yield the same results. I have tried both the GUI installs as well as the text only installs. I was able to get Debian 3.1 installed with much trouble but it booted into the command line only. I am not sure if I simply did not install it properly of if the disk was setup to install that way by default (It was a disk distributed by some magazine so it was not the official ISOs.
How do I go about getting the full text that shows during the boot attempt? The OS is not installed so the messages file is not created,
In SUSE and some other distros, the kernel option "splash=0" will eliminate the GUI boot nonsense and show the boot messages.
All I have to work with is the text from the boot attempt and after it fails I am unsure how to even scroll upwards to read the full report if that is even possible.
Anyway, I have a strong feeling that I am not going to be able to resolve this and will have to use the cards in other machines and get new mainboards that don't have this eccentric problem....
I'm puzzled. IIUC, you wrote that the installation kernel panic happens only when gfxcards are installed in the PCI slots, but you also wrote "I have been running openSuse 10.0 to 10.2 without issues." Which OS versions work with the onboard video, all? If so, you should be able to install your choice using onboard video, then use the installed system to capture any logs that may be created by trying to boot after installing a gfxcard in a PCI slot. I'm sure for the filing of a kernel bug to do you any good you'll need more data for the bug than you've provided in this thread. I'd expect whatever logs are created ought to be accessible through a BSD boot if you left that installed, or by pulling the card and booting knoppix or some other live CD, or the installed system. One other option is installing from SUSE Factory http/ftp, which would qualify you to discuss the problem on the opensuse-factory mailing list and maybe get a developer involved. -- " Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 01:24 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2007/12/03 00:34 (GMT-0500) Clark P. Case apparently typed:
Thanks for the insight. I have tried both PCI slots (they are the only once available. There are no AGP or other slots. I also tried with the bios set to disable the onboard as well as leave the onboard enabled making the PCI VGA card a secondary. In addition, the bios allows you to specify which graphics source to initialize on. I have tried both onboard and pci slot.
I am thinking you are right about reporting it as a kernel issue. I have tried an old ATI Radeon 7000 and an Nvidia 64mb card from about 4 years ago as well as a couple of other cards. All yield the same results. I have tried both the GUI installs as well as the text only installs. I was able to get Debian 3.1 installed with much trouble but it booted into the command line only. I am not sure if I simply did not install it properly of if the disk was setup to install that way by default (It was a disk distributed by some magazine so it was not the official ISOs.
How do I go about getting the full text that shows during the boot attempt? The OS is not installed so the messages file is not created,
In SUSE and some other distros, the kernel option "splash=0" will eliminate the GUI boot nonsense and show the boot messages.
All I have to work with is the text from the boot attempt and after it fails I am unsure how to even scroll upwards to read the full report if that is even possible.
Anyway, I have a strong feeling that I am not going to be able to resolve this and will have to use the cards in other machines and get new mainboards that don't have this eccentric problem....
I'm puzzled. IIUC, you wrote that the installation kernel panic happens only when gfxcards are installed in the PCI slots, but you also wrote "I have been running openSuse 10.0 to 10.2 without issues." Which OS versions work with the onboard video, all? If so, you should be able to install your choice using onboard video, then use the installed system to capture any logs that may be created by trying to boot after installing a gfxcard in a PCI slot. I'm sure for the filing of a kernel bug to do you any good you'll need more data for the bug than you've provided in this thread. I'd expect whatever logs are created ought to be accessible through a BSD boot if you left that installed, or by pulling the card and booting knoppix or some other live CD, or the installed system.
One other option is installing from SUSE Factory http/ftp, which would qualify you to discuss the problem on the opensuse-factory mailing list and maybe get a developer involved. -- " Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409
Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
Correct, all distros will install with the cards removed and relying on the onboard only. You are also correct that I should be able to capture the error logs if the system is installed and I then place the card in and boot. I am just not sure if there will be any differences with a boot failure on an installed system versus the boot process of an installer. I suppose it is the same, I am not sure, I am user first and not versed in the diagnostics required so your help has been valuable. I will try to see what I can get and check with the kernel lists and move forward as you suggest.. if anyone has any other insight and comes upon this thread feel free to jump in with your perspective. I am just trying to understand this mostly.... Cheers... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (2)
-
Clark P. Case -
Felix Miata