[opensuse] A novice's perspective: .deb and .rpm
Hello, What's basically the difference between the two file systems - .deb and .rpm. Both are linux and I guess use the same mechanism of working. Or these work also in different ways? I am new but interested to know this. Thanks. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/01/2013 11:12 AM, PM wrote:
Hello,
What's basically the difference between the two file systems - .deb and .rpm. Both are linux and I guess use the same mechanism of working. Or these work also in different ways?
I am new but interested to know this.
Thanks.
Probably too big of a topic to cover in an email. RPM grew up in Red Hat Suse world and DEB was born in Debian land. They both attempt to do the same thing, and the differences are fairly complex. You might start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPM_package_manager and here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Package_management_system -- Explain again the part about rm -rf / -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 23:42:38 +0530, PM wrote:
What's basically the difference between the two file systems - .deb and .rpm.
They're not file systems, but package management systems.
Both are linux and I guess use the same mechanism of working.
Think of it (if you come from a Windows environment) as an msi.
Or these work also in different ways?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPM_Package_Manager https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deb_(file_format) That'll give you a starting point to learn more. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
El 01/10/13 15:12, PM escribió:
Hello,
What's basically the difference between the two file systems - .deb and .rpm.
Stop right there, RPM and DEB are not filesystems but file formats designed for distribution packaging. That said, it is possible to create an RPM or DEB filesystem using FUSE so you can mount a .deb or .rpm just like you do with an .iso file, however that is not the common practical use. -- "If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in." - Edsger Dijkstra -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 15:57:07 -0300, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
That said, it is possible to create an RPM or DEB filesystem using FUSE so you can mount a .deb or .rpm just like you do with an .iso file, however that is not the common practical use.
Hmm, now *that's* cool. I need to find that - every once in a while I need a single file out of an RPM that I can't install (dependencies), and using cpio to extract it is kinda a pain. My google-fu is failing me at the moment - can you point me to the project/RPM for this? Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
El 01/10/13 20:35, Jim Henderson escribió:
My google-fu is failing me at the moment - can you point me to the project/RPM for this?
I have no idea if such thing exists, I was just rambling about what could be done in theory.. and yes I also wondered for a few minutes after writing the email about the practical use-cases. -- "If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in." - Edsger Dijkstra -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 21:07:49 -0300, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 01/10/13 20:35, Jim Henderson escribió:
My google-fu is failing me at the moment - can you point me to the project/RPM for this?
I have no idea if such thing exists, I was just rambling about what could be done in theory.. and yes I also wondered for a few minutes after writing the email about the practical use-cases.
Ah, I see - I thought you were saying this already existed. Would be cool if it did, that's for sure. :) Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-10-02 02:15, Jim Henderson wrote:
On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 21:07:49 -0300, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 01/10/13 20:35, Jim Henderson escribió:
My google-fu is failing me at the moment - can you point me to the project/RPM for this?
I have no idea if such thing exists, I was just rambling about what could be done in theory.. and yes I also wondered for a few minutes after writing the email about the practical use-cases.
Ah, I see - I thought you were saying this already existed. Would be cool if it did, that's for sure. :)
If you want to extract a single file from an rpm, that's easy: 'mc' :-) Just browse to the rpm and hit "enter". You see the contents (there is one directory for the metainfo). One of the virtual files may be a cpio archive: "enter" on it opens that archive which contains the actual files of the rpm. Is that what you want? :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 04:00:47 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2013-10-02 02:15, Jim Henderson wrote:
On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 21:07:49 -0300, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 01/10/13 20:35, Jim Henderson escribió:
My google-fu is failing me at the moment - can you point me to the project/RPM for this?
I have no idea if such thing exists, I was just rambling about what could be done in theory.. and yes I also wondered for a few minutes after writing the email about the practical use-cases.
Ah, I see - I thought you were saying this already existed. Would be cool if it did, that's for sure. :)
If you want to extract a single file from an rpm, that's easy: 'mc' :-)
Just browse to the rpm and hit "enter". You see the contents (there is one directory for the metainfo). One of the virtual files may be a cpio archive: "enter" on it opens that archive which contains the actual files of the rpm.
Is that what you want? :-)
Thanks - that's a trick I didn't know either. :) Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-10-02 03:22 (GMT) Jim Henderson composed:
If you want to extract a single file from an rpm, that's easy: 'mc' :-)
Just browse to the rpm and hit "enter". You see the contents (there is one directory for the metainfo). One of the virtual files may be a cpio archive: "enter" on it opens that archive which contains the actual files of the rpm.
Is that what you want? :-)
Thanks - that's a trick I didn't know either. :)
Nothing tricky about it. All good OFMs can access virtual file systems in same general manner as normal filesystems. Copying files out of an archive is how I've been "installing" apps so published, such as Mozilla.org pre-release binaries, for well over a decade. It's often a quick and easy way to test or revert a particular binary without disrupting a package management system that thinks doing so should not be allowed or require up or downgrade of 200 deps. Another is FTP, which is how I usually "configure" optional repos for zypper & YaST (copy the .repo file from the repo to /etc/zypp/repos.d/), avoiding typos or copy/paste errors or waiting on YaST to refresh yet again just to add another, or remove or disable one. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 23:49:48 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
Thanks - that's a trick I didn't know either. :)
Nothing tricky about it.
"trick" not in the sense of "being sneaky or tricky" but "trick" as in "something clever" or as used in "tips and tricks". It's a useful thing that I was unaware of. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-10-02 05:22, Jim Henderson wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 04:00:47 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Is that what you want? :-)
Thanks - that's a trick I didn't know either. :)
mc is amazing. For instance, it can also "open" .iso files... -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 05:58:47 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2013-10-02 05:22, Jim Henderson wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 04:00:47 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Is that what you want? :-)
Thanks - that's a trick I didn't know either. :)
mc is amazing. For instance, it can also "open" .iso files...
I've used it off and on over the years, but it's not something that I ever considered for looking into archive files - I tend to be more command-line driven, and remembering the syntax for cpio after converting an RPM (because while I have to do it on occasion, it's actually pretty rare) isn't easy because it's something I do so rarely. Of course, alien also would be a tool to get me there - alien to convert to tgz, tar to get into the file. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-10-02 04:47 (GMT) Jim Henderson composed:
mc is amazing. For instance, it can also "open" .iso files...
I've used it off and on over the years, but it's not something that I ever considered for looking into archive files
I can't imagine not. I normally have no fewer than 4 OFM sessions open 24/7, and can't imagine all the extra work involved not having them to do the many things they make simple. Absence of any on rescue media, more common than not, makes me a cripple, which is one important reason why any time I need to rescue via stick or OM I use Knoppix. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-10-02 07:10, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-10-02 04:47 (GMT) Jim Henderson composed:
mc is amazing. For instance, it can also "open" .iso files...
I've used it off and on over the years, but it's not something that I ever considered for looking into archive files
I can't imagine not. I normally have no fewer than 4 OFM sessions open 24/7, and can't imagine all the extra work involved not having them to do the many things they make simple.
Same here.
Absence of any on rescue media, more common than not, makes me a cripple, which is one important reason why any time I need to rescue via stick or OM I use Knoppix.
True. The XFCE openSUSE rescue image has it, IIRC. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
Le 02/10/2013 05:58, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
On 2013-10-02 05:22, Jim Henderson wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 04:00:47 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Is that what you want? :-)
Thanks - that's a trick I didn't know either. :)
mc is amazing. For instance, it can also "open" .iso files...
this one is pretty easy. rpm are archives and ark or fileroller open them jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Jim Henderson <hendersj@gmail.com> wrote:
I guess whole of the world's linux is categorized in either of these two categories.
Not really, no. Some distributions build from source (like Gentoo), and some (like Slackware) use tar.gz files (tgz) for package management.
Well, I don't understand that completely, like how Gentoo or Slackware works but I got that apart from .deb and .rpm also, linux has ways! On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Cristian Rodríguez <crrodriguez@opensuse.org> wrote:
They serve the same purpose, both have fails and good things but 99.9999% of the time, what users claim to be "pro" or "con" of rpm/deb have absolutely nothing to do with the package format.
Okay, get an idea. Thanks. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 1 Oct 2013 23:35:28 +0000 (UTC) Jim Henderson <hendersj@gmail.com> wrote:
I need to find that - every once in a while I need a single file out of an RPM that I can't install (dependencies), and using cpio to extract it is kinda a pain.
You can also use Midnight Commander for that. http://en.opensuse.org/Midnight_Commander http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Midnight_Commander_tips It is simple as copy file out of the virtual file system. Funny, the same is valid for deb, tar.gz and many other, although all those require helper applications, or libraries. The biggest fun is that in some cases one can add files to archives. I did not research what works and what not, but it is easy to test, just try to copy some file into archive and mc will tell. -- Regards, Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Hello, On Tue, 01 Oct 2013, Rajko wrote:
On Tue, 1 Oct 2013 23:35:28 +0000 (UTC) Jim Henderson <hendersj@gmail.com> wrote:
I need to find that - every once in a while I need a single file out of an RPM that I can't install (dependencies), and using cpio to extract it is kinda a pain.
You can also use Midnight Commander for that. http://en.opensuse.org/Midnight_Commander http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Midnight_Commander_tips
It is simple as copy file out of the virtual file system.
Funny, the same is valid for deb, tar.gz and many other, although all those require helper applications, or libraries.
The biggest fun is that in some cases one can add files to archives. I did not research what works and what not, but it is easy to test, just try to copy some file into archive and mc will tell.
Actually, you can even _EDIT_ files "inside" the archive where supported! E.g. inside ZIP archives. I use that regularly with ".xpi"-extensions for seamonkey/firefox. Often, they have too low max-versions or claim to not work at all in seamonkey[1]. At times, that too low version really is the only problem with an extension. So, I DL that .xpi, select it with mc, tap enter to "enter" the zipfile[2], select the install.rdf, tap F4 to edit, edit[3], F10 to save & exit, and you should even get a install.rdf~ backup file inside the .xpi zip-archive. At least I got a bunch of those in my ~/.mozilla/, e.g.: +<- scriptish-0.1.4.xpi/uzip:// --.[^]>+ |'h Name | Size |Modify time | |/.. |UP--DIR|Jul 4 20:32| |/components | 0|Oct 2 2011| [.] | install.rdf~ | 3752|Aug 8 2011| | install.rdf | 3753|Oct 2 2011| Ok, that's one .xpi left over from a while back, but you get the idea. So, yeah. mc rules! -dnh, is mc in the "minimal" install pattern? on the "net-install" CD? (the latter might be hard due to deps). The included "mcedit" being a self-explaining editor is a big pro IMO. Oh well, more on my todo-list. [1] at times for a very good reason, some do mess up Seamonkey quite thoroughly, so unless you know how to recover from that cleaning up ~/.mozilla/seamonkey without losing your other settings and mail etc., DO NOT DO THAT! But often enough, the install.rdf is just missing the Seamonkey entry and/or has too low "max" versions and the extension works just fine with "too" new Seamonkies/newer Firefoxen. But if it doesn't, uninstall often works, but at times esp. with seamonkey, you'll have to manually edit/clean up e.g. various .rdf files. [2] not sure if that's integrated (it's just a missing setting in mc's extension file, you may bug me about that, but I might ignore it), ATM it fails here, what does work though is 'mc foo.xpi/uzip://' (same goes e.g. for java's .jar files (they need a special order in the header with the Meta-stuff), so don't create or change those with mc's uzip://, but reading, searching, copying files out works just fine. [3] e.g. copy & paste my standard seamonkey block with max-version of 2.99 ;) -- I am the "ILOVEGNU" signature virus. Just copy me to your signature. This message was infected under the terms of the GNU General Public License. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
David Haller wrote:
So, yeah. mc rules!
-dnh, is mc in the "minimal" install pattern?
Nope. Nor is postfix, but you do get ntfs-3g. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (13.5°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (11)
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AP -
Carlos E. R. -
Cristian Rodríguez -
David Haller -
Felix Miata -
jdd -
Jim Henderson -
John Andersen -
Per Jessen -
PM
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Rajko