[SLE] Corel cheated.
This has nothing to do with SuSE, directly, however, I think it's important that everyone here knows what Corel is "up to." Their soon-to-be-released Office 20000 Suite is NOT a native Linux Suite, and in fact, the code was NOT ported to Linux. It's a modified 'Bloze version (all versions now have common code) that runs under Wine, which is shipped WITH the Suite. Now, for some this is fine...not a problem. I guess for me, I object to Corel's giving all this "lip service" to supporting Linux, and producing a LINUX VERSION of it's office suite, then having to read a review of the product to find out that it's NOT Linux code at all. I guess is an issue of honesty, if nothing else. Fred -- ----/ / _ Fred A. Miller ---/ / (_)__ __ ____ __ Systems Administrator --/ /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / Cornell Univ. Press Services -/____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ fm@cupserv.org -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Fred , I agree with you somewhate. Yes its missleading , using it with wine. Good news it weather or not it works. I am willing to deal with it under wine. I will want to first find out it it will work with my color epson 1160 printer. I have wp8 linux , and use the pass through postscript , but it will not print in color , and the color selection id grayed out itn the passthrogh postscript print drive. Sucks that it wont suport color. A unified code will mean that we can get a "linux version" as soon as the next version , and if it helps with the drvers dearth or lack of and solves it I am for it. I realy cant wait for there linux dev tools a la delphi for linux , So am willing to cut some slack for a while while they get there shit together. Wasent long ago there was the fialsco over the code for the os , and they finaly released it. At 12:33 PM 3/31/2000 -0500, Fred A. Miller wrote:
This has nothing to do with SuSE, directly, however, I think it's important that everyone here knows what Corel is "up to."
Their soon-to-be-released Office 20000 Suite is NOT a native Linux Suite, and in fact, the code was NOT ported to Linux. It's a modified 'Bloze version (all versions now have common code) that runs under Wine, which is shipped WITH the Suite. Now, for some this is fine...not a problem. I guess for me, I object to Corel's giving all this "lip service" to supporting Linux, and producing a LINUX VERSION of it's office suite, then having to read a review of the product to find out that it's NOT Linux code at all. I guess is an issue of honesty, if nothing else.
Fred
-- ----/ / _ Fred A. Miller ---/ / (_)__ __ ____ __ Systems Administrator --/ /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / Cornell Univ. Press Services -/____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ fm@cupserv.org
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On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Fred A. Miller wrote:
This has nothing to do with SuSE, directly, however, I think it's important that everyone here knows what Corel is "up to."
Their soon-to-be-released Office 20000 Suite is NOT a native Linux Suite, and in fact, the code was NOT ported to Linux. It's a modified 'Bloze version (all versions now have common code) that runs under Wine, which is shipped WITH the Suite. Now, for some this is fine...not a problem. I guess for me, I object to Corel's giving all this "lip service" to supporting Linux, and producing a LINUX VERSION of it's office suite, then having to read a review of the product to find out that it's NOT Linux code at all. I guess is an issue of honesty, if nothing else.
AFAIK: There's an important difference between wine and wine. There's wine, the emulator, which requires a Windows, and there's the wine lib, which provides the Windows API under Linux. If Corel used the latter, that's perfectly all right. Are the executables Linux or Windows executables, that is the question. With the wine lib, it would be Linux executabels, if it runs in Wine the Windows amulator, it's Windows stuff. -- Michael Hasenstein http://www.suse.de/~mha/ Private Pilot (ASEL+aerobatics) since 1998 -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Fred A. Miller wrote:
This has nothing to do with SuSE, directly, however, I think it's important that everyone here knows what Corel is "up to."
office suite, then having to read a review of the product to find out that it's NOT Linux code at all. I guess is an issue of honesty, if nothing else.
Thats my understanding also. Which is why I'm not likely to buy this version. [I do own a copy of the windows version]. Supposedly the next release will be native Linux. I might buy that if something better isn't out yet. Nick -- Nick Zentena "The Linux issue," Wladawsky-Berger explained, "is whether this is a fundamentally disruptive technology, like the microprocessor and the Internet? We're betting that it is." -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
FedEx tried to deliver my copy of Corel Office 2000 but I was at a funeral, or I would have posted a preliminary evaluation. I knew it was a port that would run under wine. I am curious to know how fast, though, and how stable, which may depend on which version of wine. JLK On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Fred A. Miller wrote:
This has nothing to do with SuSE, directly, however, I think it's important that everyone here knows what Corel is "up to."
Their soon-to-be-released Office 20000 Suite is NOT a native Linux Suite, and in fact, the code was NOT ported to Linux. It's a modified 'Bloze version (all versions now have common code) that runs under Wine, which is shipped WITH the Suite. Now, for some this is fine...not a problem. I guess for me, I object to Corel's giving all this "lip service" to supporting Linux, and producing a LINUX VERSION of it's office suite, then having to read a review of the product to find out that it's NOT Linux code at all. I guess is an issue of honesty, if nothing else.
Fred
-- ----/ / _ Fred A. Miller ---/ / (_)__ __ ____ __ Systems Administrator --/ /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / Cornell Univ. Press Services -/____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ fm@cupserv.org
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
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Who did you order it from , and what is there return policy ? I dont mind ordering it and trying out if there is some sort of mony back gaurentee from either the vonder or corel. Otherwise it will ba a wait and see type thing. There wp 8 linux sight is very close to non existant for tech issues. nothing on printer drivers. Not a good sing. This had better impprove fast for 2000 version , otherwise useres are going to be pissed. At 02:04 PM 3/31/2000 -0600, Jerry L Kreps wrote:
FedEx tried to deliver my copy of Corel Office 2000 but I was at a funeral, or I would have posted a preliminary evaluation. I knew it was a port that would run under wine. I am curious to know how fast, though, and how stable, which may depend on which version of wine. JLK
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Fred A. Miller wrote:
This has nothing to do with SuSE, directly, however, I think it's important that everyone here knows what Corel is "up to."
Their soon-to-be-released Office 20000 Suite is NOT a native Linux Suite, and in fact, the code was NOT ported to Linux. It's a modified 'Bloze version (all versions now have common code) that runs under Wine, which is shipped WITH the Suite. Now, for some this is fine...not a problem. I guess for me, I object to Corel's giving all this "lip service" to supporting Linux, and producing a LINUX VERSION of it's office suite, then having to read a review of the product to find out that it's NOT Linux code at all. I guess is an issue of honesty, if nothing else.
Fred
-- ----/ / _ Fred A. Miller ---/ / (_)__ __ ____ __ Systems Administrator --/ /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / Cornell Univ. Press Services -/____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ fm@cupserv.org
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com
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/ / (_)__ __ ____ __ * Powerful * Flexible * Compatible * Reliable * / /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / *Well Supported * Thousands of New Users Every Day* /____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ The Cost Effective Choice - Linux Means Business!
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On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Samy Elashmawy wrote:
Who did you order it from , and what is there return policy ?
I purchased online at www.chumbo.com. They require a request for an RMA before returning a product. On the Corel 'Product Authenticity Card', which also contains the serial number, it says that if you are not satisfied you can call 1-800-772-6735 within 30 days of the date of purchase for a full refund. Allow up to 10 weeks to receive your refund.
I dont mind ordering it and trying out if there is some sort of mony back gaurentee from either the vonder or corel. Otherwise it will ba a wait and see type thing.
There wp 8 linux sight is very close to non existant for tech issues. nothing on printer drivers. Not a good sing. This had better impprove fast for 2000 version , otherwise useres are going to be pissed.
I had excellent results with my CDROM copy of Wordperfect 8. JLK
At 02:04 PM 3/31/2000 -0600, Jerry L Kreps wrote:
FedEx tried to deliver my copy of Corel Office 2000 but I was at a funeral, or I would have posted a preliminary evaluation. I knew it was a port that would run under wine. I am curious to know how fast, though, and how stable, which may depend on which version of wine. JLK
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Fred A. Miller wrote:
This has nothing to do with SuSE, directly, however, I think it's important that everyone here knows what Corel is "up to."
Their soon-to-be-released Office 20000 Suite is NOT a native Linux Suite, and in fact, the code was NOT ported to Linux. It's a modified 'Bloze version (all versions now have common code) that runs under Wine, which is shipped WITH the Suite. Now, for some this is fine...not a problem. I guess for me, I object to Corel's giving all this "lip service" to supporting Linux, and producing a LINUX VERSION of it's office suite, then having to read a review of the product to find out that it's NOT Linux code at all. I guess is an issue of honesty, if nothing else.
Fred
-- ----/ / _ Fred A. Miller ---/ / (_)__ __ ____ __ Systems Administrator --/ /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / Cornell Univ. Press Services -/____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ fm@cupserv.org
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com
Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/ --
/ / (_)__ __ ____ __ * Powerful * Flexible * Compatible * Reliable * / /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / *Well Supported * Thousands of New Users Every Day* /____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ The Cost Effective Choice - Linux Means Business!
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So far I have no luck with installing the Corel Office 2000 for Linux: 1. The installation program refuses to run since it thinks that I don't have glibc 2.X installed (I have, this is SuSE 6.3). 2. Tried the manual install (i.e. installing all the RPMs they list for the full product). The RPMs install but I still don't get the application executable nor know how to do the per user install and get the icons. It is very disappointing that they didn't test the installation program on anything but Corel Linux and Redhat. It also worries me very much that in fact we have now incompatible Linux systems. Redhat with their tendency to do things a bit different are de-facto fragmenting the OS. While the kernel maybe the same, program cannot always install cleanly. Very disturbing. Avi Jerry L Kreps wrote:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Samy Elashmawy wrote:
Who did you order it from , and what is there return policy ?
I purchased online at www.chumbo.com. They require a request for an RMA before returning a product. On the Corel 'Product Authenticity Card', which also contains the serial number, it says that if you are not satisfied you can call 1-800-772-6735 within 30 days of the date of purchase for a full refund. Allow up to 10 weeks to receive your refund.
I dont mind ordering it and trying out if there is some sort of mony back gaurentee from either the vonder or corel. Otherwise it will ba a wait and see type thing.
There wp 8 linux sight is very close to non existant for tech issues. nothing on printer drivers. Not a good sing. This had better impprove fast for 2000 version , otherwise useres are going to be pissed.
I had excellent results with my CDROM copy of Wordperfect 8. JLK
At 02:04 PM 3/31/2000 -0600, Jerry L Kreps wrote:
FedEx tried to deliver my copy of Corel Office 2000 but I was at a funeral, or I would have posted a preliminary evaluation. I knew it was a port that would run under wine. I am curious to know how fast, though, and how stable, which may depend on which version of wine. JLK
-- Avi Schwartz Get a Life avi@CFFtechnologies.com Get Linux -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Avi Schwartz wrote:
So far I have no luck with installing the Corel Office 2000 for Linux:
1. The installation program refuses to run since it thinks that I don't have glibc 2.X installed (I have, this is SuSE 6.3).
That's two of us! Did you see my update on my attempts to obtain technical help from Corel to solve this problem? Doesn't look promising. They haven't any preparations in place to solve this problem except for one active newgroup manned by a 'C_tech' volunteer. This will result in a large rash of unhappy installation attempts, rapid word of mouth,er, email, about these problems and Corel will suffer for it.
2. Tried the manual install (i.e. installing all the RPMs they list for the full product). The RPMs install but I still don't get the application executable nor know how to do the per user install and get the icons.
It is very disappointing that they didn't test the installation program on anything but Corel Linux and Redhat. It also worries me very much that in fact we have now incompatible Linux systems. Redhat with their tendency to do things a bit different are de-facto fragmenting the OS.
It is an exact copy of the M$ 'embrace and extend' model... VERY, VERY disconcerting.
While the kernel maybe the same, program cannot always install cleanly. Very disturbing.
Avi
Jerry L Kreps wrote:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Samy Elashmawy wrote:
Who did you order it from , and what is there return policy ?
I purchased online at www.chumbo.com. They require a request for an RMA before returning a product. On the Corel 'Product Authenticity Card', which also contains the serial number, it says that if you are not satisfied you can call 1-800-772-6735 within 30 days of the date of purchase for a full refund. Allow up to 10 weeks to receive your refund.
I dont mind ordering it and trying out if there is some sort of mony back gaurentee from either the vonder or corel. Otherwise it will ba a wait and see type thing.
There wp 8 linux sight is very close to non existant for tech issues. nothing on printer drivers. Not a good sing. This had better impprove fast for 2000 version , otherwise useres are going to be pissed.
I had excellent results with my CDROM copy of Wordperfect 8. JLK
At 02:04 PM 3/31/2000 -0600, Jerry L Kreps wrote:
FedEx tried to deliver my copy of Corel Office 2000 but I was at a funeral, or I would have posted a preliminary evaluation. I knew it was a port that would run under wine. I am curious to know how fast, though, and how stable, which may depend on which version of wine. JLK
-- Avi Schwartz Get a Life avi@CFFtechnologies.com Get Linux
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
-- __ _ / / (_)__ __ ____ __ * Powerful * Flexible * Compatible * Reliable * / /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / *Well Supported * Thousands of New Users Every Day* /____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ The Cost Effective Choice - Linux Means Business! -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Yes I did see your posting on corel(no)support.linux.office2000.installation. I made a little progress in my effort to get it working. I noticed that there are some links in /usr/bin that point to nonexistent files in /usr/lib/corel/bin. So what I did was list the files in all the RPMs and found that when you do the full manual install you also have to install wpo2000-minimal-2000.03.13.12.01-1.i386.rpm.list wpo2000-minimal-dlx-2000.03.13.12.01-1.i386.rpm.list even though Corel lists them only for the minimal install. Now I had another problem. The setupWPO2000 is looking for a program called run-parts that don't seem to be anywhere, so I modified the second to the last line to be: for i in /usr/lib/corel/bin/per-user-setup/*; do sh $i; done Now the installation script completes but(!) trying to run any application results in the following (which looks scarily like Windows): Unhandled exception: page fault on read access to 0xbf000004 in 32-bit code (0x404d709a). Loading symbols: /usr/lib/corel/wine/bin/wine /usr/X11R6/lib/libSM.so.6 /usr/X11R6/lib/libICE.so.6 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXpm.so.4 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6 /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 /lib/libncurses.so.4 /lib/libm.so.6 /lib/libutil.so.1 /lib/libdl.so.2 /lib/libc.so.6 /lib/ld-linux.so.2 /usr/lib/libaps.so.0 In 32 bit mode. Register dump: CS:0023 SS:002b DS:002b ES:002b FS:008f GS:0000 EIP:404d709a ESP:bfffe2d8 EBP:bfffe360 EFLAGS:00010293( R- 00 I S -A- 1C) EAX:bfffe310 EBX:404dfec8 ECX:bf000000 EDX:bfffe310 ESI:083a3a74 EDI:00000001 Stack dump: Symbol h_errno is invalid 0xbfffe2d8 (_end+0x7fd97c9c): 404dfec8 00000009 00000009 00000001 0xbfffe2e8 (_end+0x7fd97cac): bfffe310 083a2f00 0000017b 00000001 0xbfffe2f8 (_end+0x7fd97cbc): 00000000 00000001 00000000 00000000 0xbfffe308 (_end+0x7fd97ccc): 0000017b 00000000 00000000 00000000 0xbfffe318 (_end+0x7fd97cdc): 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 0xbfffe328 (_end+0x7fd97cec): 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 0xbfffe338 (_end+0x7fd97cfc): 0011: sel=008f base=08373fe0 limit=00000fff 32-bit rw- Backtrace: =>0 0x404d709a (_end+0x270a5e) (ebp=bfffe360) 0x404d709a (_end+0x270a5e): movl 0x0(%ecx,%edi,4),%edx avi@seahorse:~ > Avi Jerry L Kreps wrote:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Avi Schwartz wrote:
So far I have no luck with installing the Corel Office 2000 for Linux:
1. The installation program refuses to run since it thinks that I don't have glibc 2.X installed (I have, this is SuSE 6.3).
That's two of us! Did you see my update on my attempts to obtain technical help from Corel to solve this problem? Doesn't look promising. They haven't any preparations in place to solve this problem except for one active newgroup manned by a 'C_tech' volunteer. This will result in a large rash of unhappy installation attempts, rapid word of mouth,er, email, about these problems and Corel will suffer for it.
2. Tried the manual install (i.e. installing all the RPMs they list for the full product). The RPMs install but I still don't get the application executable nor know how to do the per user install and get the icons.
It is very disappointing that they didn't test the installation program on anything but Corel Linux and Redhat. It also worries me very much that in fact we have now incompatible Linux systems. Redhat with their tendency to do things a bit different are de-facto fragmenting the OS.
It is an exact copy of the M$ 'embrace and extend' model... VERY, VERY disconcerting.
While the kernel maybe the same, program cannot always install cleanly. Very disturbing.
Avi
Jerry L Kreps wrote:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Samy Elashmawy wrote:
Who did you order it from , and what is there return policy ?
I purchased online at www.chumbo.com. They require a request for an RMA before returning a product. On the Corel 'Product Authenticity Card', which also contains the serial number, it says that if you are not satisfied you can call 1-800-772-6735 within 30 days of the date of purchase for a full refund. Allow up to 10 weeks to receive your refund.
I dont mind ordering it and trying out if there is some sort of mony back gaurentee from either the vonder or corel. Otherwise it will ba a wait and see type thing.
There wp 8 linux sight is very close to non existant for tech issues. nothing on printer drivers. Not a good sing. This had better impprove fast for 2000 version , otherwise useres are going to be pissed.
I had excellent results with my CDROM copy of Wordperfect 8. JLK
At 02:04 PM 3/31/2000 -0600, Jerry L Kreps wrote:
FedEx tried to deliver my copy of Corel Office 2000 but I was at a funeral, or I would have posted a preliminary evaluation. I knew it was a port that would run under wine. I am curious to know how fast, though, and how stable, which may depend on which version of wine. JLK
-- Avi Schwartz Get a Life avi@CFFtechnologies.com Get Linux
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/ -- __ _ / / (_)__ __ ____ __ * Powerful * Flexible * Compatible * Reliable * / /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / *Well Supported * Thousands of New Users Every Day* /____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ The Cost Effective Choice - Linux Means Business!
-- Avi Schwartz Get a Life avi@CFFtechnologies.com Get Linux -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
one more note to add , they are clearly trying to get users to install corel linux and they are putting the printer enhgancements into corel linux as oppesed to the wp office. Time for some one to use the gpl and see what they are doing and disseminate it ?? http://www.corel.com/news/2000/march/march_20_2000.htm The enhanced version of Corel LINUX OS also includes Corel Application Printing Services Library. The printing library allows an application to have more control over printer settings and printer selection. The open source library project is currently hosted on opensource.corel.com and Sourceforge. Existing and new users of Corel LINUX At 09:22 PM 3/31/2000 -0600, Jerry L Kreps wrote:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Avi Schwartz wrote:
So far I have no luck with installing the Corel Office 2000 for Linux:
1. The installation program refuses to run since it thinks that I don't have glibc 2.X installed (I have, this is SuSE 6.3).
That's two of us! Did you see my update on my attempts to obtain technical help from Corel to solve this problem? Doesn't look promising. They haven't any preparations in place to solve this problem except for one active newgroup manned by a 'C_tech' volunteer. This will result in a large rash of unhappy installation attempts, rapid word of mouth,er, email, about these problems and Corel will suffer for it.
2. Tried the manual install (i.e. installing all the RPMs they list for the full product). The RPMs install but I still don't get the application executable nor know how to do the per user install and get the icons.
It is very disappointing that they didn't test the installation program on anything but Corel Linux and Redhat. It also worries me very much that in fact we have now incompatible Linux systems. Redhat with their tendency to do things a bit different are de-facto fragmenting the OS.
It is an exact copy of the M$ 'embrace and extend' model... VERY, VERY disconcerting.
While the kernel maybe the same, program cannot always install cleanly. Very disturbing.
Avi
Jerry L Kreps wrote:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Samy Elashmawy wrote:
Who did you order it from , and what is there return policy ?
I purchased online at www.chumbo.com. They require a request for an RMA before returning a product. On the Corel 'Product Authenticity Card', which also contains the serial number, it says that if you are not satisfied you can call 1-800-772-6735 within 30 days of the date of purchase for a full refund. Allow up to 10 weeks to receive your refund.
I dont mind ordering it and trying out if there is some sort of mony
back
gaurentee from either the vonder or corel. Otherwise it will ba a wait and see type thing.
There wp 8 linux sight is very close to non existant for tech issues. nothing on printer drivers. Not a good sing. This had better impprove fast for 2000 version , otherwise useres are going to be pissed.
I had excellent results with my CDROM copy of Wordperfect 8. JLK
At 02:04 PM 3/31/2000 -0600, Jerry L Kreps wrote:
FedEx tried to deliver my copy of Corel Office 2000 but I was at a funeral, or I would have posted a preliminary evaluation. I knew it was a port that would run under wine. I am curious to know how fast, though, and how stable, which may depend on which version of wine. JLK
-- Avi Schwartz Get a Life avi@CFFtechnologies.com Get Linux
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com
Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/ --
/ / (_)__ __ ____ __ * Powerful * Flexible * Compatible * Reliable * / /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / *Well Supported * Thousands of New Users Every Day* /____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ The Cost Effective Choice - Linux Means Business!
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com
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In fairness to Corel, Wordperfect for UNIX has been available for years as has their enhanced printer services. I remember using it on SCO a number of years ago. Their new release is simply an enhancment of what WordPerfect Corp were doing before Borland/Corel/Inprise/Everyone got involved. Surely what we want is a good O/S with good commercial application software. Open source protects us from the mickysofts of the world taking control. I have a copy of Corel Linux on one of my systems and I have to say that it's install eats anything else I have seen including SuSE. Also it's enhanced KDE which integrates the control panel and Samba, makes Linux much more windoze like, which frankly is one of the biggest barriers to more businesses moving to Linux, they want a familiar interface for their average users. Finally, don't knock the competition,learn from them and then do better. Or if you don't like their products, don't buy them. my 2c worth Chris -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
At 03:02 AM 4/2/2000 -0800, Brevsville Administrator wrote:
In fairness to Corel, Wordperfect for UNIX has been available for years as has their enhanced printer services.
I beg to differ , there WP8 for linux passthroughpostscript does not suport color printing ,I dont ee it as any sort of enhansed printer serice. Doesent even work with the esp drivers eaither. Shucks , applixware and even maxwell print in color. (epson 1160 color inkjet) I remember using it on SCO a number of years ago. Their
new release is simply an enhancment of what WordPerfect Corp were doing before Borland/Corel/Inprise/Everyone got involved.
Surely what we want is a good O/S with good commercial application software. Open source protects us from the mickysofts of the world taking control.
Yes , agree with you hear.
I have a copy of Corel Linux on one of my systems and I have to say that it's install eats anything else I have seen including SuSE. Also it's enhanced KDE which integrates the control panel and Samba, makes Linux much more windoze like, which frankly is one of the biggest barriers to more businesses moving to Linux, they want a familiar interface for their average users.
These are the kind of improvements that can trickle over to other distros. So far I have found when suse lacks in integration and simplicity , it seems to make up for in allowing you do do a whole lot of advanced stuff in yast. It does need some improvment , especialy in printer setup. Have you seen the esp printdriver system. Real neet and real easy. Beats the pants off of suse in printing
Finally, don't knock the competition,learn from them and then do better. Or if you don't like their products, don't buy them.
my 2c worth
Chris
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On 01-Apr-00 Jerry L Kreps wrote:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Avi Schwartz wrote:
So far I have no luck with installing the Corel Office 2000 for Linux:
1. The installation program refuses to run since it thinks that I don't have glibc 2.X installed (I have, this is SuSE 6.3).
That's two of us! Did you see my update on my attempts to obtain technical help from Corel to solve this problem? Doesn't look promising. They haven't any preparations in place to solve this problem except for one active newgroup manned by a 'C_tech' volunteer. This will result in a large rash of unhappy installation attempts, rapid word of mouth,er, email, about these problems and Corel will suffer for it.
2. Tried the manual install (i.e. installing all the RPMs they list for the full product). The RPMs install but I still don't get the application executable nor know how to do the per user install and get the icons.
It is very disappointing that they didn't test the installation program on anything but Corel Linux and Redhat. It also worries me very much that in fact we have now incompatible Linux systems. Redhat with their tendency to do things a bit different are de-facto fragmenting the OS.
It is an exact copy of the M$ 'embrace and extend' model... VERY, VERY disconcerting.
Hmmm! I said pretty much the same thing about their distribution when I learned that a very knowledgeable friend of mine was having problems installing Corel Linux--it was severely changing partitions and other previously-usable aspects of his hard drive during the install. Apparently he couldn't get it working in the end. Makes it seem that Corel is seeking flat out revenge on M$, by doing all that the latter has done to the general populace.
While the kernel maybe the same, program cannot always install cleanly. Very disturbing.
Avi
Jerry L Kreps wrote:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Samy Elashmawy wrote:
Who did you order it from , and what is there return policy ?
I purchased online at www.chumbo.com. They require a request for an RMA before returning a product. On the Corel 'Product Authenticity Card', which also contains the serial number, it says that if you are not satisfied you can call 1-800-772-6735 within 30 days of the date of purchase for a full refund. Allow up to 10 weeks to receive your refund.
I dont mind ordering it and trying out if there is some sort of mony back gaurentee from either the vonder or corel. Otherwise it will ba a wait and see type thing.
There wp 8 linux sight is very close to non existant for tech issues. nothing on printer drivers. Not a good sing. This had better impprove fast for 2000 version , otherwise useres are going to be pissed.
I had excellent results with my CDROM copy of Wordperfect 8. JLK
At 02:04 PM 3/31/2000 -0600, Jerry L Kreps wrote:
FedEx tried to deliver my copy of Corel Office 2000 but I was at a funeral, or I would have posted a preliminary evaluation. I knew it was a port that would run under wine. I am curious to know how fast, though, and how stable, which may depend on which version of wine. JLK
-- Avi Schwartz Get a Life avi@CFFtechnologies.com Get Linux
--
-----------------------------------
Arlen Carlson
For me the issue isn't so much that Corel cheated, by why anyone would care? WordPerfect on the Windows platform will take an unstable platform and make it positively unusable. The only reason WordPerfect survives today is that MS has chosen not to incorporate the legal layout specializations that WordPerfect uses to guarantee that 99% of the legal offices in the US use WP. You can do the same thing in MSWord, but it is simpler in WP. If you look at the way their office suite completely pollutes and modifies a Windows system you would be concerned for your carefully optimized Linux platform. Corel has no problems with modifying critical settings in Windows without informing the user, and I find it unlikely that will change just because it is running on Linux. You need to consider more than whether a company claims to be Linux friendly and see if they have been freindly to any other OS in the past. The problem of compatible code across multiple platforms is the big hangup in all major applications. Even MS who is the largest software developer for the Mac platform is finding it difficult to maintain feature and functionality parity between the Mac and Windows applications. If Corel had to modify the Wine libraries then fine, but how does that flow back into the general Linux package? How do you keep different modifications becoming incompatible with each other? That is already an issue on the Windows paltform because developers think they can replace and existing dll with their own. At some point the OS moves forward and if the special dll doesn't keep up then problems appear. But how do you diagnose this kind of problem? Even MS has trouble with that. How do you know you need to upgrade the special dll? The scariest issue that was previously identified in this thread had to do with the relationship between Linux distributions. There is no such thing as acceptable deviations among distributions if Linux intends to become the dominant OS. It is one thing to be an excellent alternative, but another to succeed and survive based on superiority. As long as there are real or perceived issues between the distributions then Linux is vulnerable to other OS alternatives, even MS getting their act together (unlikely, but possible). I again point to the downfall of Unix as the next great OS to save the world. The same things were being said about how the differences were minor and it required a recompile and it was all being blown out of proportion, but the perception that became reality was that there were significant differences in the the Unix versions. It wasn't hard for Novell first, then MS to capitalize on this perception. When an application or hardware will not install on our distro, but will on another I become a bit more disenchanted with the whole process, but tend to react by not purchasing the hardware or software. I am tired of all the stuff that is only supposed to work with RedHat, and they won't even talk to you if you have a real Linux distro (see how I've so easily slipped into the camp supporting, or at least acknowledging differences in the distros). Mark Thornton San Marcos Internet, Inc. 512-393-5300 -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
On Sat, 01 Apr 2000, Mark wrote: <snip>
Corel has no problems with modifying critical settings in Windows without informing the user, and I find it unlikely that will change just >because it is running on Linux. You need to consider more than whether a company claims to be Linux friendly and see if they have been freindly to any other OS in the past.
Corel can't do that in Linux because Linux has no 'registry'. Even environmental variables can be safely modified while a program runs and restored to prior values when a program quits without doing any harm to the Linux installation. I do that all the time with LD_LIBRARY_PATH, etc...
The scariest issue that was previously identified in this thread had to do with the relationship between Linux distributions. There is no such thing as acceptable deviations among distributions if Linux intends to become the dominant OS.
Agreed. That is why Linux standards which transcend all distros and to which all distros must adhere is becoming more important. <snip>
When an application or hardware will not install on our distro, but will on another I become a bit more disenchanted with the whole process, but tend to react by not purchasing the hardware or software. I am tired of all the stuff that is only supposed to work with RedHat, and they won't even talk to you if you have a real Linux distro (see how I've so easily slipped into the camp supporting, or at least acknowledging differences in the distros). Mark Thornton
As it turns out, concerning my attempts to install WordPerfect Office 2000, the problem was with the 'unique' way in which *SuSE* implemented the glibc standard, if what the Corel techie says is true: "The setup tool is doingan 'rpm -qi glibc | grep Version' to get the version of glibc you're running, but SUSE (unlike other RPM based distros) puts the C libraries into a different package (shlibs)." If the Corel techie's statement is true, then SuSE should get in line with the standards of packaging. We certainly don't want to begin another 'embrace and extend' empire. Jerry -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Bad news , yes ! Good news is that it may bring the "fragmentation" to front and center. To be honest , there are too meny distros to test them all. There realy need to be some sort of standard as far as dirs , libs are mapped out ect... or allow each distro a crack at it during alpha/beta , and that will allow the disto guys to see why there distro wont survive an install. This "fragmentation" thing is just the kind of thing Billy Gates would love to take advantaqe of."look at em, they cant even install it on the other version of linux ect..." At 08:33 PM 3/31/2000 -0600, Avi Schwartz wrote:
So far I have no luck with installing the Corel Office 2000 for Linux:
1. The installation program refuses to run since it thinks that I don't have glibc 2.X installed (I have, this is SuSE 6.3).
2. Tried the manual install (i.e. installing all the RPMs they list for the full product). The RPMs install but I still don't get the application executable nor know how to do the per user install and get the icons.
It is very disappointing that they didn't test the installation program on anything but Corel Linux and Redhat. It also worries me very much that in fact we have now incompatible Linux systems. Redhat with their tendency to do things a bit different are de-facto fragmenting the OS. While the kernel maybe the same, program cannot always install cleanly. Very disturbing.
Avi
Jerry L Kreps wrote:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Samy Elashmawy wrote:
Who did you order it from , and what is there return policy ?
I purchased online at www.chumbo.com. They require a request for an RMA before returning a product. On the Corel 'Product Authenticity Card', which also contains the serial number, it says that if you are not satisfied you can call 1-800-772-6735 within 30 days of the date of purchase for a full refund. Allow up to 10 weeks to receive your refund.
I dont mind ordering it and trying out if there is some sort of mony back gaurentee from either the vonder or corel. Otherwise it will ba a wait
and
see type thing.
There wp 8 linux sight is very close to non existant for tech issues. nothing on printer drivers. Not a good sing. This had better impprove fast for 2000 version , otherwise useres are going to be pissed.
I had excellent results with my CDROM copy of Wordperfect 8. JLK
At 02:04 PM 3/31/2000 -0600, Jerry L Kreps wrote:
FedEx tried to deliver my copy of Corel Office 2000 but I was at a funeral, or I would have posted a preliminary evaluation. I knew it was a port that would run under wine. I am curious to know how fast, though, and how stable, which may depend on which version of wine. JLK
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On Sat, 01 Apr 2000, Samy Elashmawy wrote:
Bad news , yes !
Good news is that it may bring the "fragmentation" to front and center. To be honest , there are too meny distros to test them all. There realy need to be some sort of standard as far as dirs , libs are mapped out ect...
You mean the File system layout standard. Or whatever it's called? I'm pretty sure SuSE already conforms to it. Nick -- Nick Zentena "The Linux issue," Wladawsky-Berger explained, "is whether this is a fundamentally disruptive technology, like the microprocessor and the Internet? We're betting that it is." -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
So far I have no luck with installing the Corel Office 2000 for Linux: 1. The installation program refuses to run since it thinks that I don't have glibc 2.X installed (I have, this is SuSE 6.3). 2. Tried the manual install (i.e. installing all the RPMs they list for the full product). The RPMs install but I still don't get the application executable nor know how to do the per user install and get the icons. It is very disappointing that they didn't test the installation program on anything but Corel Linux and Redhat. It also worries me very much that in fact we have now incompatible Linux systems. Redhat with their tendency to do things a bit different are de-facto fragmenting the OS. While the kernel maybe the same, program cannot always install cleanly. Very disturbing. Avi Jerry L Kreps wrote:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Samy Elashmawy wrote:
Who did you order it from , and what is there return policy ?
I purchased online at www.chumbo.com. They require a request for an RMA before returning a product. On the Corel 'Product Authenticity Card', which also contains the serial number, it says that if you are not satisfied you can call 1-800-772-6735 within 30 days of the date of purchase for a full refund. Allow up to 10 weeks to receive your refund.
I dont mind ordering it and trying out if there is some sort of mony back gaurentee from either the vonder or corel. Otherwise it will ba a wait and see type thing.
There wp 8 linux sight is very close to non existant for tech issues. nothing on printer drivers. Not a good sing. This had better impprove fast for 2000 version , otherwise useres are going to be pissed.
I had excellent results with my CDROM copy of Wordperfect 8. JLK
At 02:04 PM 3/31/2000 -0600, Jerry L Kreps wrote:
FedEx tried to deliver my copy of Corel Office 2000 but I was at a funeral, or I would have posted a preliminary evaluation. I knew it was a port that would run under wine. I am curious to know how fast, though, and how stable, which may depend on which version of wine. JLK
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Avi Schwartz wrote:
So far I have no luck with installing the Corel Office 2000 for Linux:
1. The installation program refuses to run since it thinks that I don't have glibc 2.X installed (I have, this is SuSE 6.3).
2. Tried the manual install (i.e. installing all the RPMs they list for the full product). The RPMs install but I still don't get the application executable nor know how to do the per user install and get the icons.
It is very disappointing that they didn't test the installation program on anything but Corel Linux and Redhat. It also worries me very much that in fact we have now incompatible Linux systems. Redhat with their tendency to do things a bit different are de-facto fragmenting the OS. While the kernel maybe the same, program cannot always install cleanly. Very disturbing.
Avi
You raise an interesting issue. I have been trying to find time to read file:/usr/doc/FHS/fhs.dvi so I can better understand what a Linux system "should" look like. The industry really should make an effort to adhere to standards. Sure, one company might try to Microsoft its way into the position of being a de facto Linux monopoly. But that is a good way to make enemies. If you think Bill Gates has people trying to cut him down to size because of his bully tactics, just think what will happen if someone tries that in Linux. On a cautionary note, I am not implying that any of the companies mentioned above are executing such a tactic. We, as a community, need to stay on top of potential "forking" and endeavor to avoid any unreasonable incompatibilities. I wonder what is at the core of your problem with WPO2K? Is it the file system layout? Steve -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
I cannot be sure, but it may be that Corel is interrogating the RPM database and the RPM names between SuSE and Redhat may not match. This is just a guess. See my other post about some progress and then more disappointments. Avi "Steven T. Hatton" wrote:
You raise an interesting issue. I have been trying to find time to read file:/usr/doc/FHS/fhs.dvi so I can better understand what a Linux system "should" look like. The industry really should make an effort to adhere to standards. Sure, one company might try to Microsoft its way into the position of being a de facto Linux monopoly. But that is a good way to make enemies. If you think Bill Gates has people trying to cut him down to size because of his bully tactics, just think what will happen if someone tries that in Linux.
On a cautionary note, I am not implying that any of the companies mentioned above are executing such a tactic. We, as a community, need to stay on top of potential "forking" and endeavor to avoid any unreasonable incompatibilities.
I wonder what is at the core of your problem with WPO2K? Is it the file system layout?
Steve
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On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Fred A. Miller wrote:
This has nothing to do with SuSE, directly, however, I think it's important that everyone here knows what Corel is "up to."
Their soon-to-be-released Office 20000 Suite is NOT a native Linux Suite, and in fact, the code was NOT ported to Linux. It's a modified 'Bloze version (all versions now have common code) that runs under Wine, which is shipped WITH the Suite. Now, for some this is fine...not a problem. I guess for me, I object to Corel's giving all this "lip service" to supporting Linux, and producing a LINUX VERSION of it's office suite, then having to read a review of the product to find out that it's NOT Linux code at all. I guess is an issue of honesty, if nothing else.
There was never a deception. Corel was very up front from the very beginning (search on LinuxToday.com for 'Wine') about their strategy to use the Wine APL libraries to port their Windows applications to Linux. All of their development on the Wine libraries has been GPL'd to benefit the Free Software movement. By using the Wine libraries, Corel is able to compile both their Windows and Linux applications using the same source. WordPerfect was able to get a native port because their was already an existing UNIX version. Without the Corel Wine strategy for porting its applications, we would be waiting for _years_ for Linux ports of these applications. Dwight -- Dwight Johnson dwj@aaronsrod.com -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Dwight Johnson writes:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Fred A. Miller wrote:
This has nothing to do with SuSE, directly, however, I think it's important that everyone here knows what Corel is "up to."
Their soon-to-be-released Office 20000 Suite is NOT a native Linux Suite, and in fact, the code was NOT ported to Linux. It's a modified 'Bloze version (all versions now have common code) that runs under Wine, which is shipped WITH the Suite. Now, for some this is fine...not a problem. I guess for me, I object to Corel's giving all this "lip service" to supporting Linux, and producing a LINUX VERSION of it's office suite, then having to read a review of the product to find out that it's NOT Linux code at all. I guess is an issue of honesty, if nothing else.
There was never a deception. Corel was very up front from the very beginning (search on LinuxToday.com for 'Wine') about their strategy to use the Wine APL libraries to port their Windows applications to Linux. All of their development on the Wine libraries has been GPL'd to benefit the Free Software movement.
By using the Wine libraries, Corel is able to compile both their Windows and Linux applications using the same source.
WordPerfect was able to get a native port because their was already an existing UNIX version.
Without the Corel Wine strategy for porting its applications, we would be waiting for _years_ for Linux ports of these applications.
But isn't Wine still alpha and a beast at that. I can't see that it will even be worthwhile. I am not knocking wine because Windows is such a fast moving target, but I can't see releasing a product dependent on it either.
Dwight -- Dwight Johnson dwj@aaronsrod.com
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They did somne massaging to make it work with WP , whats nice is that this work can be sucked into future versions of wine. You would never see M$ doing this , unless they could some how get a licence fee out of you <grin> I wouldent put it past them to try this.
But isn't Wine still alpha and a beast at that. I can't see that it will even be worthwhile. I am not knocking wine because Windows is such a fast moving target, but I can't see releasing a product dependent on it either.
Dwight -- Dwight Johnson dwj@aaronsrod.com
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On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Jesse Marlin wrote:
Dwight Johnson writes:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Fred A. Miller wrote:
This has nothing to do with SuSE, directly, however, I think it's important that everyone here knows what Corel is "up to."
Their soon-to-be-released Office 20000 Suite is NOT a native Linux Suite, and in fact, the code was NOT ported to Linux. It's a modified 'Bloze version (all versions now have common code) that runs under Wine, which is shipped WITH the Suite. Now, for some this is fine...not a problem. I guess for me, I object to Corel's giving all this "lip service" to supporting Linux, and producing a LINUX VERSION of it's office suite, then having to read a review of the product to find out that it's NOT Linux code at all. I guess is an issue of honesty, if nothing else.
There was never a deception. Corel was very up front from the very beginning (search on LinuxToday.com for 'Wine') about their strategy to use the Wine APL libraries to port their Windows applications to Linux. All of their development on the Wine libraries has been GPL'd to benefit the Free Software movement.
By using the Wine libraries, Corel is able to compile both their Windows and Linux applications using the same source.
WordPerfect was able to get a native port because their was already an existing UNIX version.
Without the Corel Wine strategy for porting its applications, we would be waiting for _years_ for Linux ports of these applications.
But isn't Wine still alpha and a beast at that. I can't see that it will even be worthwhile. I am not knocking wine because Windows is such a fast moving target, but I can't see releasing a product dependent on it either.
Except that they are supplying the version of wine that they have 'tuned' to run their office product. Anyway, I have a copy in hand and as soon as I resolve a glibc problem I will tell the group how it's going. JLK -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
"Fred A. Miller" wrote:
This has nothing to do with SuSE, directly, however, I think it's important that everyone here knows what Corel is "up to."
Their soon-to-be-released Office 20000 Suite is NOT a native Linux Suite, and in fact, the code was NOT ported to Linux. It's a modified 'Bloze version (all versions now have common code) that runs under Wine, which is shipped WITH the Suite. Now, for some this is fine...not a problem. I guess for me, I object to Corel's giving all this "lip service" to supporting Linux, and producing a LINUX VERSION of it's office suite, then having to read a review of the product to find out that it's NOT Linux code at all. I guess is an issue of honesty, if nothing else.
Well, first thing I heared time ago when Corel "went Linux" was that they planned to "improve" wine to run their Windows apps under Linux. Later, I heared / read about native ports of PhotoPain and CorelDraw and was happier. Well if it's all win, there will still be the improved wine, hopefully GPL and in the current CVS of wine... I also thought of buying CorelDraw, but if this turns out to be a patched windows version I'll forget it. Juergen -- =========================================== __ _ Juergen Braukmann juergen.braukmann@gmx.de| -o)/ / (_)__ __ ____ __ Tel: 0201-743648 dk4jb@db0qs.#nrw.deu.eu | /\\ /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / ===========================================_\_v __/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Hi All, @ first, I thought the our list had been blasted with FUD from the Borg, but now I see we are suffering from myopia. Coral, way back said they were & have since saying so, contributed to WINE. Check out the WINE site to confirm this & of course, Coral. In so doing, if you were gonna follow this thread thru, you will also note, that they were & have since done so, speed the release of WordPerfect Suite for Linux, by employing WINE. Hence, Coral have not been playing loose & fast with logic or communications. So, no cheating/dishonesty @ all. In fact, Coral have helped out the Tuc community & they deserve our thanx, not out flames. So maybe we could offer them marshmallows with our now turned down flames & we could all sit around the virtual camp fires & discuss our favourite apps/themes/coffee, etc.... :-) No, I don't own shares in Coral or SuSE, but I do respect them both. *BFN* Greek Geek. "Fred A. Miller" wrote:
This has nothing to do with SuSE, directly, however, I think it's important that everyone here knows what Corel is "up to."
Their soon-to-be-released Office 20000 Suite is NOT a native Linux Suite, and in fact, the code was NOT ported to Linux. It's a modified 'Bloze version (all versions now have common code) that runs under Wine, which is shipped WITH the Suite. Now, for some this is fine...not a problem. I guess for me, I object to Corel's giving all this "lip service" to supporting Linux, and producing a LINUX VERSION of it's office suite, then having to read a review of the product to find out that it's NOT Linux code at all. I guess is an issue of honesty, if nothing else.
Fred
-- ----/ / _ Fred A. Miller ---/ / (_)__ __ ____ __ Systems Administrator --/ /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / Cornell Univ. Press Services -/____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ fm@cupserv.org
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participants (14)
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adcarlso＠visinet.ca -
Admin＠Brevsville.com.au -
avi＠CFFtechnologies.com -
bobbyg＠ihug.co.nz -
dwj＠aaronsrod.com -
fm＠cupserv.org -
hattons＠cpkwebser5.ncr.disa.mil -
JerryKreps＠alltel.net -
jlm＠compgen.com -
juergen.braukmann＠ruhr-west.de -
mark＠corridor.net -
mha＠suse.de -
samelash＠ix.netcom.com -
zentena＠hophead.dyndns.org