Purging unneeded packages and dependencies:
Hi, I am wondering about how I should best go about purging packages and possibly dependencies along with what is displayed after passing 'zypper pa --unneeded'. I can use 'zypper remove --clean-deps' to remove the package along with it's uneeded dependencies or set 'solver.cleandepsOnRemove = true' in '/etc/zypp/zypp.conf'. Is it safe to set solver to clean up the dependencies on package removal in '/etc/zypp/zypp.conf' ? Can you tell me why it may be a bad idea to do this? I recently used 'zypper rm packagenames' to remove packages that 'zypper pa --unneeded' displayed on a machine without removing any dependent packages. I am working with another machine now and when I passed 'zypper pa --unneeded' the list is once again quite extensive > https://paste.opensuse.org/pastes/2824e60628ce What do you recommend with this situation. Are there negative impacts waiting for the machines user/s or operating system (Tumbleweed) if all the packages shown in the susepaste are purged? Thanks
On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 8:43 AM -pj via openSUSE Users <users@lists.opensuse.org> wrote:
Hi, I am wondering about how I should best go about purging packages and possibly dependencies along with what is displayed after passing 'zypper pa --unneeded'.
Why? What problem are you trying to solve?
I can use 'zypper remove --clean-deps' to remove the package along with it's uneeded dependencies or set 'solver.cleandepsOnRemove = true' in '/etc/zypp/zypp.conf'.
Is it safe to set solver to clean up the dependencies on package removal in '/etc/zypp/zypp.conf' ?
Can you tell me why it may be a bad idea to do this?
That is backwards. *You* tell us why you want to do it.
I recently used 'zypper rm packagenames' to remove packages that 'zypper pa --unneeded' displayed on a machine without removing any dependent packages.
I am working with another machine now and when I passed 'zypper pa --unneeded' the list is once again quite extensive > https://paste.opensuse.org/pastes/2824e60628ce
What do you recommend with this situation. Are there negative impacts waiting for the machines user/s or operating system (Tumbleweed) if all the packages shown in the susepaste are purged?
Thanks
On 05-20-2024 01:37AM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 8:43 AM -pj via openSUSE Users <users@lists.opensuse.org> wrote:
Hi, I am wondering about how I should best go about purging packages and possibly dependencies along with what is displayed after passing 'zypper pa --unneeded'.
Why? What problem are you trying to solve?
I would like to remove packages that are bloating the machine. So that I can keep the machines package structure well organized.
I can use 'zypper remove --clean-deps' to remove the package along with it's uneeded dependencies or set 'solver.cleandepsOnRemove = true' in '/etc/zypp/zypp.conf'.
Is it safe to set solver to clean up the dependencies on package removal in '/etc/zypp/zypp.conf' ?
Can you tell me why it may be a bad idea to do this?
That is backwards. *You* tell us why you want to do it.
If removing the dependencies along with the package is set/selected. Will possibly other necessary important packages be affected by the removal of the dependency packages displayed by 'zypper pa --unneeded'?
I recently used 'zypper rm packagenames' to remove packages that 'zypper pa --unneeded' displayed on a machine without removing any dependent packages.
I am working with another machine now and when I passed 'zypper pa --unneeded' the list is once again quite extensive > https://paste.opensuse.org/pastes/2824e60628ce
What do you recommend with this situation. Are there negative impacts waiting for the machines user/s or operating system (Tumbleweed) if all the packages shown in the susepaste are purged?
Thanks
On 20.05.2024 16:45, -pj via openSUSE Users wrote:
On 05-20-2024 01:37AM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 8:43 AM -pj via openSUSE Users <users@lists.opensuse.org> wrote:
Hi, I am wondering about how I should best go about purging packages and possibly dependencies along with what is displayed after passing 'zypper pa --unneeded'.
Why? What problem are you trying to solve?
I would like to remove packages that are bloating the machine. So that I can keep the machines package structure well organized.
Whack a mole ... then it is arguably makes more sense to start with --no-recommends and only add what you need. ...
If removing the dependencies along with the package is set/selected. Will possibly other necessary important packages be affected by the removal of the dependency packages displayed by 'zypper pa --unneeded'?
Define "important". If "important" stands for "some other package has dependency on this package" - no, it will not happen. If "important" stands for "I (user) find the content of this package very important" - neither zypper nor RPM can read your mind. If this package has been explicitly installed, it will not be removed. But if it was added as dependency and then you found it useful - zypper has no way to know it. This is usual pitfall of using human meaningful words in computer science. They do not mean what you expect them to mean.
On 05-20-2024 09:54AM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
On 20.05.2024 16:45, -pj via openSUSE Users wrote:
On 05-20-2024 01:37AM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 8:43 AM -pj via openSUSE Users <users@lists.opensuse.org> wrote:
Hi, I am wondering about how I should best go about purging packages and possibly dependencies along with what is displayed after passing 'zypper pa --unneeded'.
Why? What problem are you trying to solve?
I would like to remove packages that are bloating the machine. So that I can keep the machines package structure well organized.
Whack a mole ... then it is arguably makes more sense to start with --no-recommends and only add what you need.
... Why is "--no-recommends" not the default behavior then?
If removing the dependencies along with the package is set/selected. Will possibly other necessary important packages be affected by the removal of the dependency packages displayed by 'zypper pa --unneeded'?
Define "important".
If "important" stands for "some other package has dependency on this package" - no, it will not happen.
I believe that what you say in the last sentence above was my meaning of "important" is this situation. I should have probably made that much more clear. Why is 'solver.cleandepsOnRemove = true' not the default in Tumbleweed?
If "important" stands for "I (user) find the content of this package very important" - neither zypper nor RPM can read your mind. If this package has been explicitly installed, it will not be removed. But if it was added as dependency and then you found it useful - zypper has no way to know it.
Yes, i+ means the package has been manually installed by user/s I believe. What you say in the above paragraph > "But if it was added as dependency and then you found it useful". I believe this does not happen very often at all unless it is a package that is being developed or modified by machines user from what the package contents are in a configured current repo list. Then the package/s can be locked to prevent removal or change? When a 'zypper dup' is envoked, I believe zypper goes through the steps of checking the accessible installed packages installed in the OS of the machine against the packages contained in the repositories the machine has currently enabled.
This is usual pitfall of using human meaningful words in computer science. They do not mean what you expect them to mean.
Thank you for your insight. Please do respond with corrections. -Best Hopes
On 5/21/24 1:41 AM, -pj via openSUSE Users wrote:
On 05-20-2024 09:54AM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
On 20.05.2024 16:45, -pj via openSUSE Users wrote:
On 05-20-2024 01:37AM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 8:43 AM -pj via openSUSE Users <users@lists.opensuse.org> wrote:
Hi, I am wondering about how I should best go about purging packages and possibly dependencies along with what is displayed after passing 'zypper pa --unneeded'.
Why? What problem are you trying to solve?
I would like to remove packages that are bloating the machine. So that I can keep the machines package structure well organized.
Whack a mole ... then it is arguably makes more sense to start with --no-recommends and only add what you need.
... Why is "--no-recommends" not the default behavior then?
In the modern age of both cheap storage and memory, the feedback we as openSUSE tend to get is that most users who install Tumbleweed and or Leap want something that just works for them out of the box and would rather for example to have 12 various desktop apps installed out of the box even if they'll probably only use 5 of them to save themselves having to go through and install a bunch of software that they'd like post install. In contrast these days we now have MicroOS which aims to install as minimal host os as possible and one of the ways it does that is using "--no-recommends" as the default behavior. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
On 05-20-2024 08:11PM, Simon Lees wrote:
On 5/21/24 1:41 AM, -pj via openSUSE Users wrote:
On 05-20-2024 09:54AM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
On 20.05.2024 16:45, -pj via openSUSE Users wrote:
On 05-20-2024 01:37AM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 8:43 AM -pj via openSUSE Users <users@lists.opensuse.org> wrote:
Hi, I am wondering about how I should best go about purging packages and possibly dependencies along with what is displayed after passing 'zypper pa --unneeded'.
Why? What problem are you trying to solve?
I would like to remove packages that are bloating the machine. So that I can keep the machines package structure well organized.
Whack a mole ... then it is arguably makes more sense to start with --no-recommends and only add what you need.
... Why is "--no-recommends" not the default behavior then?
In the modern age of both cheap storage and memory, the feedback we <
You call the shots; (When can I talk about openSUSE)? as
openSUSE tend to get is that most users who install Tumbleweed and or Leap want something that just works for them out of the box and would rather for example to have 12 various desktop apps
I never figure when *apps* are called out it, sounds like a cellular phone; not anything that SUSE can be a part of? The app thing is just dull!. Zypper and Novell is what pulls SUSE. So hey, I guess for me I am a user of a machine that I thought was within a corporation yet it's starving for support. Almost like truth . installed out of the
box even if they'll probably only use 5 of them to save themselves having to go through and install a bunch of software that they'd like post install.
Are they 'WADMINS' *or* 'Admins' and why make it so tough for 'wadmins' to get answers ? *I think* It's because you decide what calls the shots. That's why I wanted at the start to run > PURE SUSE and have the support. Maybe I am not good enough huhg.
In contrast these days we now have MicroOS which aims to install as minimal host os as possible and one of the ways it does that is using "--no-recommends" as the default behavior.
'Looking' is deeper for me, and I do thank you for explanation and responding to this message. I'll see what happens. -Greatest Hopes
On 5/21/24 12:24 AM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
On 20.05.2024 16:45, -pj via openSUSE Users wrote:
On 05-20-2024 01:37AM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 8:43 AM -pj via openSUSE Users <users@lists.opensuse.org> wrote:
Hi, I am wondering about how I should best go about purging packages and possibly dependencies along with what is displayed after passing 'zypper pa --unneeded'.
Why? What problem are you trying to solve?
I would like to remove packages that are bloating the machine. So that I can keep the machines package structure well organized.
Whack a mole ... then it is arguably makes more sense to start with --no-recommends and only add what you need. ...
If removing the dependencies along with the package is set/selected. Will possibly other necessary important packages be affected by the removal of the dependency packages displayed by 'zypper pa --unneeded'?
Define "important".
If "important" stands for "some other package has dependency on this package" - no, it will not happen.
If "important" stands for "I (user) find the content of this package very important" - neither zypper nor RPM can read your mind. If this package has been explicitly installed, it will not be removed. But if it was added as dependency and then you found it useful - zypper has no way to know it.
This is usual pitfall of using human meaningful words in computer science. They do not mean what you expect them to mean.
In this case we (openSUSE) generally trust maintainers to make the decision on what is / isn't important which means that sometimes its not completely consistent or easy to predict. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
On 5/20/24 3:12 PM, -pj via openSUSE Users wrote:
Hi, I am wondering about how I should best go about purging packages and possibly dependencies along with what is displayed after passing 'zypper pa --unneeded'.
I can use 'zypper remove --clean-deps' to remove the package along with it's uneeded dependencies or set 'solver.cleandepsOnRemove = true' in '/etc/zypp/zypp.conf'.
Is it safe to set solver to clean up the dependencies on package removal in '/etc/zypp/zypp.conf' ?
Can you tell me why it may be a bad idea to do this? I recently used 'zypper rm packagenames' to remove packages that 'zypper pa --unneeded' displayed on a machine without removing any dependent packages.
Disabling recommends on any non MicroOS based system is likely to cause you issues, partly because its not well tested and partly because some things you may think are essential someone else may think is not. So if you are prepared for a bunch of stuff to break and then you'll need to manually figure out which packages need to be re installed. If your happy to deal with that and file bugs as needed then go for it. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 11:01 AM Simon Lees <sflees@suse.de> wrote:
On 5/20/24 3:12 PM, -pj via openSUSE Users wrote:
Hi, I am wondering about how I should best go about purging packages and possibly dependencies along with what is displayed after passing 'zypper pa --unneeded'.
I can use 'zypper remove --clean-deps' to remove the package along with it's uneeded dependencies or set 'solver.cleandepsOnRemove = true' in '/etc/zypp/zypp.conf'.
Is it safe to set solver to clean up the dependencies on package removal in '/etc/zypp/zypp.conf' ?
Can you tell me why it may be a bad idea to do this? I recently used 'zypper rm packagenames' to remove packages that 'zypper pa --unneeded' displayed on a machine without removing any dependent packages.
Disabling recommends on any non MicroOS based system is likely to cause you issues,
As I understand the question, it was not about disabling recommends on install but rather about enabling automatic --clean-deps. Which should be relatively harmless, except the obvious confusion around "unneeded" packages.
partly because its not well tested and partly because some things you may think are essential someone else may think is not. So if you are prepared for a bunch of stuff to break and then you'll need to manually figure out which packages need to be re installed.
If your happy to deal with that and file bugs as needed then go for it.
-- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net
Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
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participants (5)
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-pj -
Andrei Borzenkov -
jvegas883＠gmail.com -
marlinpavlin＠gmail.com -
Simon Lees