[opensuse] no sound from You-tube
I have been pointed to some You-tube sites which have music and video on them. I can see the video, but not hear the audio. Some other stuff does make the speakers work--I don't remember which. Help! The sites work in Windows XP. I have SuSE 9.3. --doug Blessed are the peacemakers ... for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A.M. Greeley -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Doug McGarrett wrote:
I have been pointed to some You-tube sites which have music and video on them. I can see the video, but not hear the audio. Some other stuff does make the speakers work--I don't remember which. Help! The sites work in Windows XP. Trust me, they work fine in linux too.
I have SuSE 9.3.
Is 9.3 still in support? I remember back in the day, seeing more and more websites which didn't work correctly in 9.3, just due to changes in formats over time. Upgrading to a current version of suse linux fixes it every time. It's no doubt possible to flog your current setup to bring the various components up to date, but it's probably a lot more trouble than simply updating. Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Doug McGarrett schreef:
I have been pointed to some You-tube sites which have music and video on them. I can see the video, but not hear the audio. Some other stuff does make the speakers work--I don't remember which. Help! The sites work in Windows XP. I have SuSE 9.3.
vankan@regina>crystalball browser mcgarrett crystalball: How the !@#$ should I know? vankan@regina> Regards, -- Jos van Kan registered Linux user #152704 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 23.05.2008 at 17:00, Jos van Kan <vankan@kabelfoon.nl> wrote: Doug McGarrett schreef: I have been pointed to some You-tube sites which have music and video on them. I can see the video, but not hear the audio. Some other stuff does make the speakers work--I don't remember which. Help! The sites work in Windows XP. I have SuSE 9.3.
SuSE 9.3... well, guessing that you will use firefox or konqueror, try to find out what version of Flash plugin you use. about:plugins reveals this in firefox. For Konqueror I'm not sure (I don't use it.. but it might work the same). No Idea what was shipped on SUSE 9.3, but considering the fact that that version and 2 more versions (10.0 and 10.1) are out of the support cycle, it might not be the latest and greatest flash plugin anymore. Dominiqur -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 23 May 2008 15:00:27 Jos van Kan wrote:
Doug McGarrett schreef:
I have been pointed to some You-tube sites which have music and video on them. I can see the video, but not hear the audio. Some other stuff does make the speakers work--I don't remember which. Help! The sites work in Windows XP. I have SuSE 9.3.
vankan@regina>crystalball browser mcgarrett crystalball: How the !@#$ should I know? vankan@regina>
Regards, -- Jos van Kan registered Linux user #152704
What a truly friendly responce. Has this list a problem? Beginning to look so to me. John -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
What a truly friendly responce. Has this list a problem? Beginning to look so to me.
Unfortunately you're right with this... a simple: 'sorry, but the information is not sufficient' or even ignoring it and have somebody else reply would have been sufficient. Together with the text what other information is requested, a very nice dialog would have started, helpful for everybody. Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Dominique Leuenberger wrote:
What a truly friendly responce. Has this list a problem? Beginning to look so to me.
Unfortunately you're right with this... a simple: 'sorry, but the information is not sufficient' or even ignoring it and have somebody else reply would have been sufficient.
Together with the text what other information is requested, a very nice dialog would have started, helpful for everybody.
Doug has been around long enough that saying "app-X doesn't work" without any other information is next to uselesss. If you ask a question in a stupid manner, then don't be surprised if you get equally stupid replies. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 23 May 2008 17:01, Washington Irving wrote:
Dominique Leuenberger wrote:
What a truly friendly responce. Has this list a problem? Beginning to look so to me.
Unfortunately you're right with this... a simple: 'sorry, but
the information is not sufficient' or even ignoring it and have somebody else reply would have been sufficient.
Together with the text what other information is requested,
a very nice dialog would have started, helpful for everybody.
Doug has been around long enough that saying "app-X doesn't work" without any other information is next to uselesss.
If you ask a question in a stupid manner, then don't be surprised if you get equally stupid replies.
Yes, I have been here a long time. What would you like to know? I open my mail in KMail, and I snap on the blue text, and the picture comes up with no sound. A suggestion would be helpful. (I am using 9.3 because KMail in 10.0 was broken--every so often I would get text in some Asian font.) I am willing to try 10.3, altho there have been a lot of reports of serious problems. And there seem to be a lot of reports of serious problems in 11.0 beta, so do I want to try it when it comes out? I don't know. I am not a Unix maven, and I struggle with this system, but I'm definitely not happy with Microsoft's way of life. I would ask for patience with one poor struggler. --doug Blessed are the peacemakers ... for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A.M. Greeley -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Doug McGarrett wrote:
Yes, I have been here a long time. What would you like to know? I open my mail in KMail, and I snap on the blue text, and the picture comes up with no sound. A suggestion would be helpful. (I am using 9.3 because KMail in 10.0 was broken--every so often I would get text in some Asian font.) I am willing to try 10.3, altho there have been a lot of reports of serious problems.
What reports might those be? I can think of a few factors here - some people will always be reporting "serious problems" for various reasons, even with a good, solid OS. Who knows? flaky hardware, accident prone drama queens, whatever. Also, the problems tend to grab all the press. You don't hear reports from all the folks whose systems are running well, simply because it's not considered newsworthy. As well, there might be "serious problems" for someone trying stunts with exotic or bleeding edge hardware, which don't even apply to your mature, garden variety hardware. I'm thinking that maybe it's time to stop getting spooked over random reports and try 10.3 or 11.0 for yourself. I'm a thunderbird user, so I'm not familiar with the kmail issues you mentioned, but there are plenty of other users of 10.3 here who are using kmail daily. It's worth checking out IMHO. Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Doug McGarrett wrote:
On Friday 23 May 2008 17:01, Washington Irving wrote:
Dominique Leuenberger wrote:
What a truly friendly responce. Has this list a problem? Beginning to look so to me. Unfortunately you're right with this... a simple: 'sorry, but
the information is not sufficient' or even ignoring it and have somebody else reply would have been sufficient. Together with the text what other information is requested,
a very nice dialog would have started, helpful for everybody.
Doug has been around long enough that saying "app-X doesn't work" without any other information is next to uselesss.
If you ask a question in a stupid manner, then don't be surprised if you get equally stupid replies.
Yes, I have been here a long time. What would you like to know? I open my mail in KMail, and I snap on the blue text, and the picture comes up with no sound. A suggestion would be helpful. (I am using 9.3 because KMail in 10.0 was broken--every so often I would get text in some Asian font.) I am willing to try 10.3, altho there have been a lot of reports of serious problems. And there seem to be a lot of reports of serious problems in 11.0 beta, so do I want to try it when it comes out? I don't know. I am not a Unix maven, and I struggle with this system, but I'm definitely not happy with Microsoft's way of life. I would ask for patience with one poor struggler.
Not nearly as serious as running a release that's about 2 1/2 years old, and a version of flash which is even older. I'm surprised you even get IMAGES on youtube with that version of flash. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2008-05-23 at 20:24 -0400, Doug McGarrett wrote:
Yes, I have been here a long time. What would you like to know? I open my mail in KMail, and I snap on the blue text, and the picture comes up with no sound. A suggestion would be helpful. (I am using 9.3 because KMail in 10.0 was broken--every so often I would get text in some Asian font.) I am willing to try 10.3, altho there have been a lot of reports of serious problems. And there seem to be a lot of reports of serious problems in 11.0 beta, so do I want to try it when it comes out? I don't know.
Common! There were "serious issues" in 9.3 too. Just make a full backup so that you can fully recover your current system if things really fail, and try 10.3. Or wait a pair of months and try 11.0. Every version has its "issues". I'm using 10.3 and I have my "issues". You say Kmail is showing weird chars? Then use another program, or reinstall it. How about the computer stopping computing every second unless I hammer it awake ever second with a ping from another computer? Serious enough for you? :-P What can be serious is that security problems have been discovered and you are using a version that is not maintained and thus has holes in it. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIN2oAtTMYHG2NR9URAnBpAJ9UxxtZYqW7r4roMcaAVyIF2uHDUgCdGJBs crrCAfMwvXShnkSC8nEuwP8= =ab2E -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2008-05-24 at 03:05 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
The Friday 2008-05-23 at 20:24 -0400, Doug McGarrett wrote:
Yes, I have been here a long time. What would you like to know? I open my mail in KMail, and I snap on the blue text, and the picture comes up with no sound. A suggestion would be helpful. (I am using 9.3 because KMail in 10.0 was broken--every so often I would get text in some Asian font.) I am willing to try 10.3, altho there have been a lot of reports of serious problems. And there seem to be a lot of reports of serious problems in 11.0 beta, so do I want to try it when it comes out? I don't know.
Common! There were "serious issues" in 9.3 too. Just make a full backup so that you can fully recover your current system if things really fail, and try 10.3. Or wait a pair of months and try 11.0.
Every version has its "issues". I'm using 10.3 and I have my "issues". You say Kmail is showing weird chars? Then use another program, or reinstall it. How about the computer stopping computing every second unless I hammer it awake ever second with a ping from another computer? Serious enough for you?
:-P
I hope that this isn't 32bit specific behaviour, The 64bit version on my laptop hums along quite well. {snip} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2008-05-24 at 00:46 -0400, Mike McMullin wrote:
Every version has its "issues". I'm using 10.3 and I have my "issues". You say Kmail is showing weird chars? Then use another program, or reinstall it. How about the computer stopping computing every second unless I hammer it awake ever second with a ping from another computer? Serious enough for you?
:-P
I hope that this isn't 32bit specific behaviour, The 64bit version on my laptop hums along quite well.
It is not version specific, it is a problem that affects very few machines, and has been solved in 11.0, as far as I can check. Another similar/related problem is that the ntp daemon can't keep the clock in exact sync. As i say, few machines experience it, I believe. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIN+autTMYHG2NR9URAr8lAJ46AmWb/1suQgGDkg7RM9KNsC9QIACfc303 C6UM1tq2zN3/gsr4dsqslGw= =IKUw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 23 May 2008 07:24:58 pm Doug McGarrett wrote: ...
I am willing to try 10.3, altho there have been a lot of reports of serious problems.
The 10.3 is by now stable, just do all the updates after installation, look in YaST Software, there are now easy ways to add repositories in Build Service, Packman etc. Some stuff can be retrieved from opensuse-community wiki, although YouTube will work with non-oss repository without glitch. Sincerely if 9.3 works to your satisfaction, 10.3 will do that even better. KMail has some issues, but I use it for opensuse lists with a lot of messages every day and it works fine. -- Regards, Rajko http://en.opensuse.org/Portal needs helpful hands. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 23 May 2008 05:24:58 pm Doug McGarrett wrote:
If you ask a question in a stupid manner, then don't be surprised if you get equally stupid replies.
Yes, I have been here a long time. What would you like to know? I open my mail in KMail, and I snap on the blue text, and the picture comes up with no sound.
Doug - email me a link. Here's one of the cutest kids in the entire world playing tux of math command.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D20yCEDye2Q ...no sound? (I'm not at all biased.)
A suggestion would be helpful. (I am using 9.3 because KMail in 10.0 was broken--every so often I would get text in some Asian font.)
Yeah, 10.0 had some major shortcomings, IIRC. 10.1 and beyond is way better. Though 11.0 is around the corner, I don't plan to upgrade until my 10.3 workstations are no longer supported.
I am willing to try 10.3, altho there have been a lot of reports of serious problems. And there seem to be a lot of reports of serious problems in 11.0 beta, so do I want to try it when it comes out? I don't know. I am not a Unix maven, and I struggle with this system, but I'm definitely not happy with Microsoft's way of life. I would ask for patience with one poor struggler.
There always will be some report or another. I think the team did a great job with 10.3 and am very happy with it. The only thing I'd suggest is to use SMART to add software one-off and to use YaST / Zypper to update. -- kai www.filesite.org || www.4thedadz.com || www.perfectreign.com remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2008-05-23 at 15:09 +0100, John wrote:
vankan@regina>crystalball browser mcgarrett crystalball: How the !@#$ should I know? vankan@regina>
What a truly friendly responce. Has this list a problem? Beginning to look so to me.
No, it is an humorous way of saying that the given info is insufficient. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFINtV8tTMYHG2NR9URAuY8AJ4nAEud3i06By2fasIhNMlkMyQVywCfat3B WELpNHGHOB4gTGdwCsNTZFs= =4a11 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [05-23-08 10:34]:
The Friday 2008-05-23 at 15:09 +0100, John wrote:
vankan@regina>crystalball browser mcgarrett crystalball: How the !@#$ should I know? vankan@regina>
What a truly friendly responce. Has this list a problem? Beginning to look so to me.
No, it is an humorous way of saying that the given info is insufficient.
Especially in light of the identity of the OP. He has been on this list for years and *knows* (or should) better! -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
John wrote:
On Friday 23 May 2008 15:00:27 Jos van Kan wrote:
Doug McGarrett schreef:
I have been pointed to some You-tube sites which have music and video on them. I can see the video, but not hear the audio. Some other stuff does make the speakers work--I don't remember which. Help! The sites work in Windows XP. I have SuSE 9.3. vankan@regina>crystalball browser mcgarrett crystalball: How the !@#$ should I know? vankan@regina>
Regards, -- Jos van Kan registered Linux user #152704
What a truly friendly responce. Has this list a problem? Beginning to look so to me.
No...the problem is Doug failing to include adequate information, like all of the sound-related software he has running, and what sound hardware is on his system. Doug knows better. If you ask a question in a stupid manner, don't be surprise if all the replies are equally stupid. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 23 May 2008 07:09:47 am John wrote:
On Friday 23 May 2008 15:00:27 Jos van Kan wrote:
Doug McGarrett schreef:
I have been pointed to some You-tube sites which have music and video on them. I can see the video, but not hear the audio. Some other stuff does make the speakers work--I don't remember which. Help! The sites work in Windows XP. I have SuSE 9.3.
vankan@regina>crystalball browser mcgarrett crystalball: How the !@#$ should I know? vankan@regina>
Regards, -- Jos van Kan registered Linux user #152704
What a truly friendly responce. Has this list a problem? Beginning to look so to me.
Oh, this is actaully tame. Check out comp.os.linux.suse on Usenet. As for the OP, the issue might just well be the fact that he's using 9.3 and an old flash. I used to have that issue when Amarok or other media player was up - it would trounce any media from Firefox or other non-kde application. *shrug* -- kai www.filesite.org || www.4thedadz.com || www.perfectreign.com remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 23 May 2008 04:03:02 pm Charles philip Chan wrote:
Kai Ponte <kai@perfectreign.com> writes:
Check out comp.os.linux.suse on Usenet.
LOL, I wonder what houghi's response would have been ;-). comp.os.linux.suse is actually tame compared to COLA.
Heh - COLA - I didn't want to go there. :P Charles - Still trying to figure out the mencoder switches by the way. Yesterday, I tried unsuccessfully to load the e260 player in Virtual Box and VM ware. In both instances, loading it causes a blue screen of death and / or the Sansa conversion program won't recognize the player. (sorry for the ot response...) -- k -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 23 May 2008 23:52:00 Kai Ponte wrote:
Oh, this is actaully tame.
Check out comp.os.linux.suse on Usenet.
Wow, that must be flamefest group. My ISP doesn't carry it, and they're pretty liberal usually - I'm glad they're looking after me ;) -- Bob Registered Linux User #463880 GPG-FP: A6C1 457C 6DBA B13E 5524 F703 D12A FB79 926B 994E openSUSE 10.3, Kernel 2.6.22.17-0.1-default, KDE 3.5.7 Intel Celeron 2.53GB, 2GB DDR RAM, nVidia GeForce 7600GS -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 24 May 2008 02:22:30 pm Bob Williams wrote:
On Friday 23 May 2008 23:52:00 Kai Ponte wrote:
Oh, this is actaully tame.
Check out comp.os.linux.suse on Usenet.
Wow, that must be flamefest group. My ISP doesn't carry it, and they're pretty liberal usually - I'm glad they're looking after me ;)
The good one is alt.os.linux.suse (AOLS) and the other with flame festival all the time is comp.os.linux.advocacy (COLA). The second isn't really the one that you want to learn from. Just a bit of COLA habits are the reason for express ban here, but if someone want to see what means rude that is right place. But, what we have here is "No sound from YouTube". Any ideas? -- Regards, Rajko http://en.opensuse.org/Portal needs helpful hands. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Rajko M. wrote:
On Saturday 24 May 2008 02:22:30 pm Bob Williams wrote:
Oh, this is actaully tame.
Check out comp.os.linux.suse on Usenet. Wow, that must be flamefest group. My ISP doesn't carry it, and they're
On Friday 23 May 2008 23:52:00 Kai Ponte wrote: pretty liberal usually - I'm glad they're looking after me ;)
The good one is alt.os.linux.suse (AOLS) and the other with flame festival all the time is comp.os.linux.advocacy (COLA).
The second isn't really the one that you want to learn from. Just a bit of COLA habits are the reason for express ban here, but if someone want to see what means rude that is right place.
Wow, cola. talk about a blast from the past. I used to participate in that group in the 90s. I remember microsoft fanboys would hang out on that group and brag about windows nt, how it had smp support, and used threads, and was supported by commercial database vendors, and was therefore superior to linux, which had none of those things at the time. Of course, nt would crash a lot, and needed a lot of therapeutic reboots, as well as reboots to activate simple configuration changes, while linux would just run nonstop. Now linux has threads, smp and commercial db support, and windows doesn't crash quite as much as it used to, but otherwise it's funny how much remains the same.
But, what we have here is "No sound from YouTube". Any ideas?
Several people have advanced excellent suggestions already. Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 24 May 2008 21:47:55 Rajko M. wrote:
But, what we have here is "No sound from YouTube". Any ideas?
YouTube is flash, and the problem with sound in flash is an old and known one. The problem mostly is that flash uses OSS traditional sound, through /dev/dsp, so the first thing I would do is check that the permissions on /dev/dsp allows for reading and writing for the logged in user. If that isn't it, play around with mixer settings. I would recommend alsamixer from the command line (not as root, as the logged in user) because the GUI mixers don't normally show all controls But the suggestion to upgrade is also a good one. 9.3 is EOL since quite a while, and doesn't receive security updates anymore Anders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Anders Johansson (ajh@rydsbo.net) [20080524 22:07]:
The problem mostly is that flash uses OSS traditional sound, through /dev/dsp, so the first thing I would do is check that the permissions on /dev/dsp allows for reading and writing for the logged in user.
Recent flash plugins use alsa, so updating the plugin should suffice. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2008-05-22 at 18:31 -0400, Doug McGarrett wrote:
I have been pointed to some You-tube sites which have music and video on them. I can see the video, but not hear the audio. Some other stuff does make the speakers work--I don't remember which. Help! The sites work in Windows XP. I have SuSE 9.3.
Probably your browser setup is obsolete. Most of those videos use flash, I think: you version might not be able to cope. 9.3 being out of support, you may try to upgrade firefox from the firefox site, and then the flash plugin from their site. If that doesn't help, provide a link to one of the non working videos and we'll tell you if it works for us. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD4DBQFINtZvtTMYHG2NR9URAkaZAJijrhoPppn2lKutZXaH76/6xK+eAJ48f8yv 7DztBNsszqi1YPxkfAQSuQ== =00ES -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (16)
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Anders Johansson -
Bob Williams -
Carlos E. R. -
Charles philip Chan -
Dominique Leuenberger -
Doug McGarrett -
Joe Sloan -
John -
Jos van Kan -
Kai Ponte -
Mike McMullin -
Patrick Shanahan -
Philipp Thomas -
Rajko M. -
Sloan
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Washington Irving