On Sun, Sep 18, 2005 at 08:22:32PM +0200, Richard Bos wrote:

Op zondag 18 september 2005 20:02, schreef Gunnar Håland:

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I have tried GRAMPS earlier with Opensuse 10. Beta 1 or 2? and GRAMPS keep crashing with a seg. fault. I am now running Opensuse 10.0 RC1 and downloaded GRAMPS 2.08-1, copy my GRAMPS data from my working SuSE 9.2 and BINGO, it`s up and running. Thank you !!!!!!

If you like I can sent you a gramps rpm (2.0.8) build on opensuse RC1.

A great exmple of why we need to have an unsuported place to put stuff. Because if I want it, he needs to mail me to, and so on. Now if you have a place to put it, that place could run `createrepo` and have it set up as a instalation source. houghi -- Quote correct (NL) http://www.briachons.org/art/quote/ Zitiere richtig (DE) http://www.afaik.de/usenet/faq/zitieren Quote correctly (EN) http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html

Op zondag 18 september 2005 21:40, schreef Eberhard Moenkeberg:

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A great exmple of why we need to have an unsuported place to put stuff. Because if I want it, he needs to mail me to, and so on.

Not really; Richard just did not open his 10.0 directory at ftp.gwdg.de yet. ;-))

I'll after 10.0 has been released.

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Now if you have a place to put it, that place could run `createrepo` and have it set up as a instalation source.

Together with Richard, I have organized such a "place for unsupported SUSE stuff" a long time ago (was at 7.3 times I guess) at ftp.gwdg.de - the APT repositories for SUSE.

Exactly :) -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless

Hi, On Sun, 18 Sep 2005, houghi wrote:

On Sun, Sep 18, 2005 at 09:40:01PM +0200, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:

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Together with Richard, I have organized such a "place for unsupported SUSE stuff" a long time ago (was at 7.3 times I guess) at ftp.gwdg.de - the APT repositories for SUSE.

I Use SUSE for some years now and I never knew that.

Ok, initially it was a creation for the apt4suse community. But meanwhile, we have many "YaST sources".

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If you build some RPMs for SUSE distributions regularly at home, I can add a directory /pub/linux/suser-<your-identity> at ftp.gwdg.de and rsync the contents nightly from your home.

I first will look into making RPM's according the rules, becauise now I just run checkinstall and be done with it. Works great for me, personally. :-)

So I guess the time will come soon for suser-houghi. ;-))

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Every "suser" ("suse user", Richard's creation) is encouraged to run createreo over his personal RPM directory at home.

You could make it a requirement. I mean I running `createrepo /usr/src/packages/RPMS/` is not THAT difficult.

It already IS a requirement in my head, but I am a shepard. ;-))

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This gives the community the chance to directly add the suser-XXX repository as a YaST source.

The disadvatage is that you have to add many repositories. Also many repos will have double RPM's in them with the chance of people doing work twice.

It is pretty well "coordinated" because most susers are communicating with and obeying their companions. Adding repositories and watching the rules is just my life task currently. ;-))

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Once the OpenSUSE build hosts are installed, all "susers" will get invited to move the RPM build process to the SUSE provided build hosts, and then all the "suser" repositories can move "one level higher", to be distributed centrally to all the SUSE mirrors.

Great. So what time will this be done? ;-)

Lets say: probably not this year. But work is already in progress at SUSE, as Christoph has reported.

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But again: you don't have to wait. First step is already here (at ftp.gwdg.de). Drop me a line to participate.

Thanks. I will keep it in the back of my mind. At this moment my knowledge of building RPM's is limited to checkinstall. As I said, I will first learn some RPM building basics.Next wait what things I miss in 10.0 and then look if I could be of any use.

Yes! That's the base idea: just add yourself what you feel is missing, and I will help you to publish it. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 houghi wrote:

On Mon, Sep 19, 2005 at 12:01:30AM +0200, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote: ... Great. As you know something that is installed via a non-official repo will become locked. This causes it to be excluded from newer versions, wich might be importand in case of security patches. Would this also be handled?

That needs to be adressed by the YaST2 developers. If you use apt or redcarpet, those packages are not "locked", and they may not be. It's a broken approach.

Say I compile a packagage and after two weeks a newer version comes out due to security reasons, will users who installed the first package get the newer version?

With YaST2, I don't know. It might be "locked" and you wont get the latest package. With apt, yum or redcarpet you'll simply end up with the package that's the "highest" in its naming scheme. That isn't always working as expected either, which is why we (packagers) need to communicate and coordinate to avoid duplicated RPMs (in different repositories). But you got the point, you've scratched the tip of the iceberg ;) Still a lot to do. cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ <pascal.bleser@skynet.be> <guru@unixtech.be> _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDLmVjr3NMWliFcXcRAh+dAJ9GwiLzVCyQRwcFBn8EHI2vilkKVgCfTHfb ZrDkfj5G2Y6LLOXWiMxk1y4= =5xcx -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005, houghi wrote:

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On Sun, Sep 18, 2005 at 09:40:01PM +0200, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:

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Together with Richard, I have organized such a "place for unsupported SUSE stuff" a long time ago (was at 7.3 times I guess) at ftp.gwdg.de - the APT repositories for SUSE.

Indeed. We 3rd party package maintainers owe Eberhard and Richard a big one there ;)

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I Use SUSE for some years now and I never knew that. Really ? Oh.. well... shows that there's still a lot of work to do and focus to put into advocating and integrating 3rd party package repositories ;)

Ok, initially it was a creation for the apt4suse community. But meanwhile, we have many "YaST sources". ...

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I first will look into making RPM's according the rules, becauise now I just run checkinstall and be done with it. Works great for me, personally.

checkinstall is nice to track a package you're only using on your own box, but is definately not a way to build packages to send out into the wild.

So I guess the time will come soon for suser-houghi. ;-))

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Every "suser" ("suse user", Richard's creation) is encouraged to run createreo over his personal RPM directory at home. You could make it a requirement. I mean I running `createrepo /usr/src/packages/RPMS/` is not THAT difficult. It already IS a requirement in my head, but I am a shepard. ;-))

Not necessarely. I provide apt, yast2 and redcarpet. No need to do createrepo ;) (yast2 with my own scripts around create_package_descr, and redcarpet with opencarpet) It's great to have YaST2 being able to use createrepo metadata, but that only counts for >= 10.0, and I intent to provide packages for 9.3, 9.2, 9.1, 9.0 for a while (well, at least 9.3 and 9.2). So unless Novell is willing to backport that to yast2 on those distributions, I'm still stuck ;)

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This gives the community the chance to directly add the suser-XXX repository as a YaST source. The disadvatage is that you have to add many repositories. Also many repos will have double RPM's in them with the chance of people doing work twice.

Exactly.

It is pretty well "coordinated" because most susers are communicating with and obeying their companions.

Unfortunately, that's not the case at all. We are some packagers to actually talk to each other (packman, me, tux, oc2pus) but I really don't know about the others. One of the first things we should put into place for that is a central mailing-list for all the 3rd party packagers, to at least try to coordinate what we provide and avoid double entries. There are still a lot of them, and there's barely any communication going on. Unfortunately, especially the suse-people don't talk to us non-suse-people. Some RPMs suddenly pop up into SUSE's "extra" repositories (kde, gnome) although they have been provided by others already (e.g. my k3b and amarok packages). Well, nice, I could just remove mine, but they're not always actively maintained. So, speaking for myself, I'm willing to remove packages from my repository if they're being maintained by others (especially SUSE extra repositories), but only if I'm sure they're also being maintained properly and updated as soon as a new release is available. Another issue is cross-referencing. I always make sure that I don't require a package that's not in my own repository (or part of the core distribution, of course), and I know that at Packman we have the same policy. But if everyone does the same, we'll always end up with multiple copies of libraries that are not provided within SUSE itself (e.g. ffmpeg). Those are the kinds of things that need to be addressed in the next weeks, to provide a much better user experience and avoid conflicts, multiple (often incompatible) copies of packages, etc...

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Once the OpenSUSE build hosts are installed, all "susers" will get invited to move the RPM build process to the SUSE provided build hosts, and then all the "suser" repositories can move "one level higher", to be distributed centrally to all the SUSE mirrors.

Unless you have some information I don't (although I've been talking with cthiel, henne and darix about it the last weeks ;)), we're still not there. Yes, Novell will provide build servers, but what's happening beyond that is still void. We don't even know yet what those build servers will "look like".

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Great. So what time will this be done? ;-) Lets say: probably not this year. But work is already in progress at SUSE, as Christoph has reported.

Indeed. But there's still a lot of work to do on how to aggregate, integrate, communicate, provide, ...

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But again: you don't have to wait. First step is already here (at ftp.gwdg.de). Drop me a line to participate. Thanks. I will keep it in the back of my mind. At this moment my knowledge of building RPM's is limited to checkinstall. As I said, I will first learn some RPM building basics.Next wait what things I miss in 10.0 and then look if I could be of any use.

- - for the basics: Maximum RPM: http://www.rpm.org/max-rpm/ - - SUSE package conventions: http://ftp.novell.com/pub/forge/library/SUSE%20Package%20Conventions/spc.htm... - - read a lot of spec files :) Note that for spec files to look at, I'd recommend using e.g. mine or packman's. Not necessarely those from SUSE they're.. well.. let's say "they work" but aren't necessarely always following the rules (e.g. not using RPM macros). Maybe you'd want to read an RPM presentation I did some time ago at a LUG in Antwerpen: http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/files/presentations/rpm-packaging.pdf Those are only the slides but they're quite verbose (98 slides). It's in 2 parts: RPM for users (boring), and RPM for packagers (that's where the real meat is at ;)). cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ <pascal.bleser@skynet.be> <guru@unixtech.be> _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDLmS4r3NMWliFcXcRAkWdAKCjiTahiYjSfgF3sGYVHrij9EhA7wCeO886 T3KIOGu73UtPKOKqhrsf+RM= =ZGLk -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On Mon, Sep 19, 2005 at 09:11:52AM +0200, Pascal Bleser wrote:

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I first will look into making RPM's according the rules, becauise now I just run checkinstall and be done with it. Works great for me, personally.

checkinstall is nice to track a package you're only using on your own box, but is definately not a way to build packages to send out into the wild.

I know. But for that it is extremely usefull. Not all programs will be available on a repo, no matter what. There will alwaqys be a reason some people compile their own stuff and then checkinstall comes in very handy.

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So I guess the time will come soon for suser-houghi. ;-))

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Every "suser" ("suse user", Richard's creation) is encouraged to run createreo over his personal RPM directory at home. You could make it a requirement. I mean I running `createrepo /usr/src/packages/RPMS/` is not THAT difficult. It already IS a requirement in my head, but I am a shepard. ;-))

Not necessarely. I provide apt, yast2 and redcarpet. No need to do createrepo ;) (yast2 with my own scripts around create_package_descr, and redcarpet with opencarpet)

OK. In an ideal world, everybody would just do the yast2 and be done with it. :-) What I wanted to say is that IF you are a repo-mainter (repo-er?) and just had RPM's as most SUSER-* have, doing a createrepo is not a real extra burden.

It's great to have YaST2 being able to use createrepo metadata, but that only counts for >= 10.0, and I intent to provide packages for 9.3, 9.2, 9.1, 9.0 for a while (well, at least 9.3 and 9.2). So unless Novell is willing to backport that to yast2 on those distributions, I'm still stuck ;)

Yes, you are and create_package_descr is much better then createrepo, so please do not change.

One of the first things we should put into place for that is a central mailing-list for all the 3rd party packagers, to at least try to coordinate what we provide and avoid double entries. There are still a lot of them, and there's barely any communication going on.

A specific mailing list for packaging and repo hosting should be a good idea. I am taking the two together, because what I understand is that they are very close related or at least will be. I also understand that I won't be welcome there. :-)

Unfortunately, especially the suse-people don't talk to us non-suse-people.

I am sure that will change once 10.0 is out.

Some RPMs suddenly pop up into SUSE's "extra" repositories (kde, gnome) although they have been provided by others already (e.g. my k3b and amarok packages). Well, nice, I could just remove mine, but they're not always actively maintained.

It would indeed be best to put these extra's on the future shared OSS repo server. Or the "Shared Oss Unified Repositories Community Enhancement". ;-) Would be a lot cleare to have a SPOC to point to. <snip>

We don't even know yet what those build servers will "look like". Sure we do: http://www.es.jamstec.go.jp/esc/eng/GC/b_photo/esc11.jpg

Maybe you'd want to read an RPM presentation I did some time ago at a LUG in Antwerpen: http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/files/presentations/rpm-packaging.pdf

Nice. Pity I could not be there. Had something else going on. Yes, sometime I DO have a life. Will look into that perhaps sometime in the future. houghi -- Quote correct (NL) http://www.briachons.org/art/quote/ Zitiere richtig (DE) http://www.afaik.de/usenet/faq/zitieren Quote correctly (EN) http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html